Europe and the PKK

[xenon54 out]

Why do you say "you"? I was never in Brussels in my entire life.

That said, the problem is this isn´t a PKK tent. Its an independend group. When police approaches them they can only demand that this flag is removed. Evrything else must be decided by a court.

I would also like to add that most here dont know what PKK is. I learned about them in this forum.

Im pretty confident that 99% of the people in this tent are giving financial support or support in any other form to pkk, they could be sentenced for supporting an illegal terrorist group, them making propaganda for a terrorist group, which btw is also illegal, is reason enough to open a case but we all know this is not gonna happen.
Im talking about small fishes here, im pretty sure pkk structures are being monitored by intelligence agencies throught Europe, would be a big failure if it wasnt so, but no real affort is being done to stop it even thought theres is enough reason.
Again swapp all what i said with isis and you would imadiately get them in front of a court.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Then its quite hypocritical from Europeans to accuse others of supporting terrorism.

I doubt that PKK gets support by Europeans, they certainly collect money,
but mainly from Kurds living in Europe.
PKK is still branded a terrorist organisation, and no plans to pull them from that list,
even though the Communists wants them off.

 

[xenon54 out]

I doubt that PKK gets support by Europeans, they certainly collect money,
but mainly from Kurds living in Europe.
PKK is still branded a terrorist organisation, and no plans to pull them from that list,
even though the Communists wants them off.

Thats where we all agree on but what i dont agree with you is that European goverments are doing any effort to stop this which is fueling the conflict in Turkey, pkk would have been history without its sources in Europe.

 

[MarkusS]

Thats where we all agree on but what i dont agree with you is that European goverments are doing any effort to stop this which is fueling the conflict in Turkey, pkk would have been history without its sources in Europe.

You can blame us for our ignorance then. I give you that. I did not know for example that this Ocalan was made honorary citizen of Napoli and Palermo. I didn´t know. It was not published much in italy.

Thats what i mean, most here dont know what PKK is.

The mayor of Napoli did not know who Ocalan was and a group went tehre and showed some stuff he saw as positive. So there is ignorance, yes.
But i certainly assure you that no EU government funds PKK in any way. As far as i know this PKK makes small groups and collects money.

 

[xenon54 out]

You can blame us for our ignorance then. I give you that. I did not know for example that this Ocalan was made honorary citizen of Napoli and Palermo. I didn´t know. It was not published much in italy.

Thats what i mean, most here dont know what PKK is.

The mayor of Napoli did not know who Ocalan was and a group went tehre and showed some stuff he saw as positive. So there is ignorance, yes.
But i certainly assure you that no EU government funds PKK in any way. As far as i know this PKK makes small groups and collects money.

Im not even talking about ordinary citizen, im talking about goverments which im pretty sure they know exactly about pkk activities in Europe.
The problem is pkk being tolerated and even branded as freedom fighters sometimes which is a spit in the face of terror victims in Turkey.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Thats where we all agree on but what i dont agree with you is that European goverments are doing any effort to stop this which is fueling the conflict in Turkey, pkk would have been history without its sources in Europe.

I think the limited resources here is focused on ISIS supporters, Nazis and extreme left,
so PKK is not top of the agenda.
That is not the same as "supporting" them though.

 

[MarkusS]

Im not even talking about ordinary citizen, im talking about goverments which im pretty sure they know exactly about pkk activities in Europe.
The problem is pkk being tolerated and even branded as freedom fighters sometimes which is a spit in the face of terror victims in Turkey.

And? You suggest our rescources should focus on PKK and ignore militant islamists who pose a far greater danger for european cititens? Thats exactly teh point. I understand PKK does evil in turkey and i condemn this but how should europe react then?

They are monitored and on the black list but i doubt our government has specialists for kurdish extremists.

 

[xenon54 out]

I think the limited resources here is focused on ISIS supporters, Nazis and extreme left,
so PKK is not top of the agenda.
That is not the same as "supporting" them though.

I havent mentioned ''support'' in a single sentence.
Though still this is not an excuse, the carelessnes of European goverments is fueling the conflict in Turkey which isnt small in comparison.

Edit: In case you are referring to my first post:
1. It was a hypothetical answer to a member
2. Those who usually call pkk freedom fighters are the same ones accusing Turkey with wildest conspiracies, which is a hypocracy, (good terrorist bad terrorist).

And? You suggest our rescources should focus on PKK and ignore militant islamists who pose a far greater danger for european cititens? Thats exactly teh point. I understand PKK does evil in turkey and i condemn this but how should europe react then?

They are monitored and on the black list but i doubt our government has specialists for kurdish extremists.

Ofcourse Europe should react, what would you expect Turkey to do if isis had free hand like this in Turkey?

 

[usernameless]

You want to know what we want? You declared pkk a terrorist organization, fine, then threat them as such but this isnt happening they are being tolerated, their leaders are in Europe, they can recruit fighters in Europe, their money source is Europe, they have lobbies in Europe, they even have their media in Europe and your still asking what we want?

Kindly stop playing the three monkeys which is costing lives of people in Turkey, is it clear now?

it's almost not possible to reason with Europeans (leaders), unless you are on an equal footing with them. Farfetched maybe, but our state should return the favor and play dirty with them Euros in some ways. Once they, the countries supporting the pkk and other scum, get annoyed, make a deal to drop support for each other's proxy. After all, only reason the pkk can still exist is due to the breathing space they get from abroad.

 

[MarkusS]

I havent mentioned ''support'' in a single sentence.
Though still this is not an excuse, the carelessnes of European goverments is fueling the conflict in Turkey which isnt small in comparison.


Ofcourse Europe should react, what would you expect Turkey to do if isis had free hand like this in Turkey?

That question should remain open. There are various reports that turkey supported ISIS with weapons and other things.

The security council in italy labelled Turkey a terror supporting state. Germany announced the same.

But what good is achieved by this?

You blame us for turning a blind eye on PKK. We blame you for turning a blind eye on ISIS. In the end terror is terror.

 

[xenon54 out]

That question should remain open. There are various reports that turkey supported ISIS with weapons and other things.

The security council in italy labelled Turkey a terror supporting state. Germany announced the same.

But what good is achieved by this?

You blame us for turning a blind eye on PKK. We blame you for turning a blind eye on ISIS. In the end terror is terror.

Not a single Turkish weapon (or originating from Turkey) in isis hand in contrary to numerous western weapons so how exactly did Turkey provide weapons?
And the oil trade accusations are laughable at best.
Those ''reports'' so far have not a single hard proof to sustain the accusations, in contrary to Europe Turkey is actively fighting isis as we speak and lost soldiers just yesterday.

So spare me the reverse psychology BS your trying right now.

 

[MarkusS]

Not a single Turkish weapon (or originating from Turkey) in isis hand in contrary to numerous western weapons so how exactly did Turkey provide weapons?
And the oil trade accusations are laughable at best.
Those ''reports'' so far have not a single hard proof to sustain the accusations, in contrary to Europe Turkey is actively fighting isis as we speak and lost soldiers just yesterday.

So spare me the reverse psychology BS your trying right now.

I trust our officials on that.

Turkey treated woundedISIS fighters in its hospitals and basicly allowed them to move freely.

So that is our point of view and it has the same foundation as yours. My government says Turkey is supporting Terrorism. Yours says same about mine.

What makes you right and me wrong then?

 

[xenon54 out]

I trust our officials on that.

Turkey treated woundedISIS fighters in its hospitals and basicly allowed them to move freely.

So that is our point of view and it has the same foundation as yours. My government says Turkey is supporting Terrorism. Yours says same about mine.

What makes you right and me wrong then?

That isis flag was on syrian side of the border, it isnt isis territory anymore because Turkish army is fighting them.
And about wounded isis members, another myth with no evidence.

What makes me right is how obvious pkk can move in Europe, they set up tent in front of European parliament, come back again when you can claim the same about Turkey.

 

[MarkusS]

That isis flag was on syrian side of the border, it isnt isis territory anymore because Turkish army is fighting them.
And about wounded isis members, another myth with no evidence.

What makes me right is how obvious pkk can move in Europe, they set up tent in front of European parliament, come back again when you can claim the same about Turkey.

But thats exactly the problem, dont you think?

Both sides have nothing to debate with each other anymore. Both dont understand each other and find no common ground.

 

[-SINAN-]

This news is couple of months old but an excellent example of how EU nations, let's PKK activities go hindered in the overall EU.

The Belgian government allowed supporters of the terrorist organization PKK to pitch tents before the Turkey-EU summit in Brussels on Thursday, according to the Anadolu Agency correspondent on site.

The PKK supporters set up their tents near the EU Council building.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu will join the summit in Brussels on Thursday.

EU heads of government are gathering in Brussels to discuss Turkey's proposals on the refugee and migrant crisis. Davutoglu is representing Turkey at the meeting.

One of the terrorist organization leaders in Belgium, Remzi Kartal, held a press conference to criticize Turkey's anti-terror operations in southeast Turkey, said the correspondent.

Belgian police have reportedly taken security measures around tents displaying symbols of the PKK terrorist group.

Belgian government ministers made no move to interfere with the tents, although last week they had pledged to cooperate in fighting terrorism.

When asked by the Anadolu Agency correspondent about the possible security risk of the tents’ presence during the summit, Belgian Interior Ministry officials had no comment.

During a visit by a Belgian delegation last week, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu criticized Belgium for tolerating terrorist organizations such as the PKK or the terrorist Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front's (DHKP-C), saying that they deserve to be treated just like Daesh, and that failing to do so shows a double standard.

In response, Belgian Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Didier Reynders said, "Legal pursuit and investigations are (being) conducted by federal prosecutors in a detailed way against the PKK and DHKP-C in Belgium. There will be four trials in a short while. Our way is slow, but Belgium is one of the active countries in (anti-) terror and terrorists' processes."

Belgium is one of the European countries where the PKK and DHKP-C are very active.

Several PKK leaders live in Belgium, and there are also pro-PKK TV channels in the country.

The last anti-terror operation by Belgian security forces against the PKK took place in 2010.

Apart from Belgium, the PKK is also active in many EU countries such as Germany, Austria, Denmark, France, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Greece.

Since the PKK – also listed as a terrorist organization by the U.S. and the EU – resumed its 30-year armed campaign in late July, more than 290 members of the security forces have been martyred.

Though the PKK is on the EU’s official terrorist organization list, Turkey has complained of member states’ indifference to the terrorist group.

Belgium has held numerous anti-terror operations against other terrorist organizations such as Daesh, and cooperated as an EU member state with France to find the perpetrators of last November’s terrorist attacks in Paris.

Daesh claimed responsibility for the Paris attacks which killed 130 people. Many of the attackers had links to Belgium, and police carried out a series of raids in Brussels in the days after the coordinated attacks.

More than 30 suspects have been detained and eight have been arrested so far.

EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said this week that the European bloc regards the PKK as a terrorist organization in all respects, with its activities both inside and outside the EU.

http://aa.com.tr/en/politics/belgium-lets-pkk-supporters-pitch-tents-before-summit/539015

Now, imagine that Italian officials allow Daesh supporters, to erect a tent near their parliament. Hoist black daesh flags everywhere around it. And conduct pro-Daesh propaganda while Italian police only observe them from a distance.

EU says they regard PKK as an terrorist organization but actions speak louder than words.

Additional pic from Belgium.

Additonally you can see;

PJAK flags; Iranian branch of PKK.

MLKP flags; (Marxist-Leninist Communist Party) another terrorist organization based on communist ideology.

KCK flags.

An umbrella organization for all these terrorist organization.

HPG flags;

HPG refers to mountain based terrorists within PKK.