Ethnonationalism

[TheSolution]

What's the solution? More provinces?

I gave the solution on another thread, I'll copy it here:

"
We need to increase regional connectivity to the max, have people from all places free mixing, it will destroy any minor cultural/linguistic/ethnic psychological divides, merge the society as one, making it impossible to balkanise Pakistan.

Roads, high speed railways, scholarships to universities in other provinces, incentives to set up businesses in areas which lack them, mix up the population till we become one entity.

Like taking a bag of different coloured sweets, and shaking it."

Also you replace ethnonationalism with normal nationalism

 

[Imran Khan]

Isn't that a worry as it could lead to an ethnic war? What is we end up like Afghanistan?

its could be sir . its already happen but then in punjab only power is punjabis themselves to whom they will war ? there is no karachi type place here . and 2nd they are very small minority .

I gave the solution on another thread, I'll copy it here:

"
We need to increase regional connectivity to the max, have people from all places free mixing, it will destroy any minor cultural/linguistic/ethnic psychological divides, merge the society as one, making it impossible to balkanise Pakistan.

Roads, high speed railways, scholarships to universities in other provinces, incentives to set up businesses in areas which lack them, mix up the population till we become one entity.

Like taking a bag of different coloured sweets, and shaking it."

Also you replace ethnonationalism with normal nationalism

yes i agree mujhy to sindh jana hai wahan per sharab ki dukan kot sabzal se hi shuru ho jati hain

 

[TheSolution]

its could be sir . its already happen but then in punjab only power is punjabis themselves to whom they will war ? there is no karachi type place here . and 2nd they are very small minority .

yes i agree mujhy to sindh jana hai wahan per sharab ki dukan kot sabzal se hi shuru ho jati hain

Rate all the provinces in terms of ethno-nationalism, from most ethnic-nationalist all the way to nationalist (pro-Pakistan)

 

[peagle]

Isn't that a worry as it could lead to an ethnic war? What is we end up like Afghanistan?

I'm sorry but this comment is ludicrously funny.

Pakistan is already a single united nation, for some reason Pakistanis are obsessed with negativity.

Pakistan has passed it's troublesome stage, the period after independence and the period after 1971 was the time for Pakistan to disintegrate, it did not happen, because there is a natural inbuilt strength in the ideology and identity of Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan identify with Pakistaniate. Pakistan is a political and an ideological reality that exists as a nation within the minds of the people it's Pakistan.


There are forces, especially external ones trying to undermine, but the Pakistani identity is entrench, it is solid, and permanent. So, please stop your worries, and keep things in perspective.

 

[PakSarZameen47]

I gave the solution on another thread, I'll copy it here:

"
We need to increase regional connectivity to the max, have people from all places free mixing, it will destroy any minor cultural/linguistic/ethnic psychological divides, merge the society as one, making it impossible to balkanise Pakistan.

Roads, high speed railways, scholarships to universities in other provinces, incentives to set up businesses in areas which lack them, mix up the population till we become one entity.

Like taking a bag of different coloured sweets, and shaking it."

Also you replace ethnonationalism with normal nationalism

Do you think this will happen anytime soon?

 

[TheSolution]

Do you think this will happen anytime soon?

Well there is a lot of regional connectivity projects under CPEC right? But any further tbh I don't think so, the establishment seems to be blind and is trying to achieve something that is impossible. (Like their constant efforts with Afghanistan, which sounds unlikely considering the general population hates us)

Maybe this is just one step in a larger plan but I don't see that sort of planning in the establishment...

 

[PakSarZameen47]

I'm sorry but this comment is ludicrously funny.

Pakistan is already a single united nation, for some reason Pakistanis are obsessed with negativity.

Pakistan has passed it's troublesome stage, the period after independence and the period after 1971 was the time for Pakistan to disintegrate, it did not happen, because there is a natural inbuilt strength in the ideology and identity of Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan identify with Pakistaniate. Pakistan is a political and an ideological reality that exists as a nation within the minds of the people it's Pakistan.


There are forces, especially external ones trying to undermine, but the Pakistani identity is entrench, it is solid, and permanent. So, please stop your worries, and keep things in perspective.

I'm sorry but this comment is ludicrously funny.

Pakistan is already a single united nation, for some reason Pakistanis are obsessed with negativity.

Pakistan has passed it's troublesome stage, the period after independence and the period after 1971 was the time for Pakistan to disintegrate, it did not happen, because there is a natural inbuilt strength in the ideology and identity of Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan identify with Pakistaniate. Pakistan is a political and an ideological reality that exists as a nation within the minds of the people it's Pakistan.


There are forces, especially external ones trying to undermine, but the Pakistani identity is entrench, it is solid, and permanent. So, please stop your worries, and keep things in perspective.

Exactly we have sell outs and traitors and external influences trying to destroy the concept of Pakistan. Everyday they strike and if you go on social media they are everywhere. Thats why I'm worried, some of our people get influenced and start believing they should have separate countries. All ethnicities are infected with this..

Well there is a lot of regional connectivity projects under CPEC right? But any further tbh I don't think so, the establishment seems to be blind and is trying to achieve something that is impossible. (Like their constant efforts with Afghanistan, which sounds unlikely considering the general population hates us)

Maybe this is just one step in a larger plan but I don't see that sort of planning in the establishment...

How worried should we be by the current situation? @peagle ?

 

[peagle]

Exactly we have sell outs and traitors and external influences trying to destroy the concept of Pakistan. Everyday they strike and if you go on social media they are everywhere. Thats why I'm worried, some of our people get influenced and start believing they should have separate countries. All ethnicities are infected with this..


How worried should we be by the current situation? @peagle ?

Out of 230 million people, even if 0.1%, which is an insignificant percentage has ill-informed views that is still 230,000 people. So, you are going to come across such people.
Those people are irrelevant and nothing to worry about, and please also remember just because they express certain views does not mean that is what they truly believe, if they are wrong then they will automatically correct themselves once they find out the truth.

There were times when Pakistan could have been damaged, but those times have long passed by, let us not worry too much, but it's also good to keep our eyes open. Stay blessed.

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Out of 230 million people, even if 0.1%, which is an insignificant percentage has ill-informed views that is still 230,000 people. So, you are going to come across such people.
Those people are irrelevant and nothing to worry about, and please also remember just because they express certain views does not mean that is what they truly believe, if they are wrong then they will automatically correct themselves once they find out the truth.

There were times when Pakistan could have been damaged, but those times have long passed by, let us not worry too much, but it's also good to keep our eyes open. Stay blessed.

I'm only asking because I've noted some online sentiments that they are trying very hard to push. These people are also very racist and want to create ethnic tensions where is doesn't exist using social media etc. I was worried because it could change opinions of young people using these sites.

All ethnonationalists perpetuate the idea that the creation of Pakistan is wrong and their culture suffered as a result, they do not like the idea of a national language, national unity or anything. It is very sophisticated psycho-ops. The gov needs to counter these views to stop them going unchallenged, but is anyone doing anything?

I hope you are right, I don't do if I am being too worried, hope nothing happens

 

[R Wing]

Im quite concerned about this. India is more diverse than us yet they don't seem to have the same level of seperatism. I don't think the state really does anything to counter ethnonationalism, they don't even promote state perspective and traitors are given free for all ..

India suffered greatly from several violent enthnonationalist insurgencies a few decades ago --- but they, unlike us, learned important lessons. The BJP brought a more powerful ideology --- nationalism --- that made the ordinary Indian feel like they are a part of an ascendant nation growing stronger on the global stage. We have no such hawkishness or clearly defined identity.

 

[SaadH]

For 70+ year Baluch, Pukhtun, Muhajir and Sindhis showed ethanonationalism and no one was concerned but only when some Punjabis showed ethnic color, you are concerned!!

Concerned you say? How about Baluch being bombed by PAF on Bhutto's orders, Muhajir enduring PPP's operation cleanup under Naseerullah Babur and also 50 years of quota system.

Sindhi example is ironic since they were riding roughshod and executed the aforementioned excesses and mistreatments.

 

[Vapnope]

Concerned you say? How about Baluch being bombed by PAF on Bhutto's orders, Muhajir enduring PPP's operation cleanup under Naseerullah Babur and also 50 years of quota system.

Sindhi example is ironic since they were riding roughshod and executed the aforementioned excesses and mistreatments.

You mean Baluch militant were bombed by PAF when Sarfraz Bugti asked Bhutto to engage separatist !
Muhajirs being bombed by Punjabis for being Muhajirs? Pray tell me if they were not militants why all the police officers who took part in operation were killed by MQM's hitmen?

 

[PakSarZameen47]

r/Pashtun is a dumpster fire. It is basically like an Afghan Facebook Group, full of fake news, Gul Marjan antics, and Punjabi blaming. Coming from a Pashtun.

Nah we don't have an ethno nationalism "problem" HOWEVER there are ethno nationalistic sentiments in certain parts of the country (Chaman, Central Balochistan, ex FATA/Waziristan). Diaspora and urban youth are marrying across ethnic lines, something never thought about in the 60s. Sindhi Nationalism is more prevalent and mainstream than Pashtun nationalism.

A way to solidify it would be more federalism and provinces


Exactly. The only reason a Punjabi and a Pashtun relate to each other is because of Urdu and Islam.

@Sainthood 101 @Dual Wielder

 

[Maula Jatt]

@Sainthood 101 @Dual Wielder

even the most fervent ethno-nationalist draw the line at separation be it Pashtun, Sindh, Punjabi spaces (afaik), Pakistan except for Baluchistan no truly English educated will talk against Pakistan the country
they hate Pakistani nationalism (including Punjabi spaces) and I agree with some of their arguments here
Will crap talk about different groups of Pakistan - Sindhi-Muhajir beef, Pashtun hating on Punjabis and Punjabis crap talking Pashtuns (tbf this is a historical beef dating back centuries), Hindustani people
Pashtun, Punjabis are both very much into Pakistani nationalist (not talking about Reddit in general) compared to other groups, also (because are neighbors) have Punjabi pathan and Hindko phenomenon -

but the ethno-centric folks of both sides don't particularly like each other, ethno-nationalist folks holds Ranjeet Singh in good light, respected figure cause he stopped and pushed back Afghans (the whole "Sher-e-punjab" and Ranjeets statue thing was the conspiracy of liberal ethno-nationalist and it would have stayed that way till islamists pushed back and said enough of this BS)

They like those Afghan invasions because of Muslim brotherhood (you can still see islamists of punjab cheering on TTA and wanting a merger of two states under shari'a) - not only have historically they invited Afghans to Punjab against non-muslims
but stiffest opposition to khalsa rule was put up by islamist Peers of Punjab who in the name of jihad would raise jathas against khalsas (multiple times during course of Thier rule, Jihadi Lashkars led by some islamic figure would appear) while the regular people would consider them Thier own people or were too tired after 94 years of constant turmoil and moved on with life)
I think invasions of Punjab to some extent become successful because of struggle between secularists believing in co-existance vs islamists who helped the invasions in the name of Islam, jihad

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344655855132655619

This internal struggle meant people were always divided on how to approach invasions

But after Pakistan we can see islamist won this almost 1000 y/o internal struggle and now for the most part islamic brotherhood before.other divisions is the mainstream approach

Honestly islamist do keep our ethno-centric steak at check (ANP-JUI, here TLP stopped the statues) @Jf-17 block 3 is right in some ways here

Back to topic
Its mostly about promoting local culture, history, language etc etc nothing too serious

Keep in mind reddit is mostly of English speaking diaspora and not people living in Pakistan and will attract ethno-centric folks in the first place so this is a very small, specific group of people

 

[PakSarZameen47]

even the most fervent ethno-nationalist draw the line at separation be it Pashtun, Sindh, Punjabi spaces (afaik), Pakistan except for Baluchistan no truly English educated will talk against Pakistan the country
they hate Pakistani nationalism (including Punjabi spaces) and I agree with some of their arguments here
Will crap talk about different groups of Pakistan - Sindhi-Muhajir beef, Pashtun hating on Punjabis and Punjabis crap talking Pashtuns (tbf this is a historical beef dating back centuries), Hindustani people
Pashtun, Punjabis are both very much into Pakistani nationalist (not talking about Reddit in general) compared to other groups, also (because are neighbors) have Punjabi pathan and Hindko phenomenon -

but the ethno-centric folks of both sides don't particularly like each other, ethno-nationalist folks holds Ranjeet Singh in good light, respected figure cause he stopped and pushed back Afghans (the whole "Sher-e-punjab" and Ranjeets statue thing was the conspiracy of liberal ethno-nationalist and it would have stayed that way till islamists pushed back and said enough of this BS)

They like those Afghan invasions because of Muslim brotherhood (you can still see islamists of punjab cheering on TTA and wanting a merger of two states under shari'a) - not only have historically they invited Afghans to Punjab against non-muslims
but stiffest opposition to khalsa rule was put up by islamist Peers of Punjab who in the name of jihad would raise jathas against khalsas (multiple times during course of Thier rule, Jihadi Lashkars led by some islamic figure would appear) while the regular people would consider them Thier own people or were too tired after 94 years of constant turmoil and moved on with life)
I think invasions of Punjab to some extent become successful because of struggle between secularists believing in co-existance vs islamists who helped the invasions in the name of Islam, jihad

This internal struggle meant people were always divided on how to approach invasions

But after Pakistan we can see islamist won this almost 1000 y/o internal struggle and now for the most part islamic brotherhood before.other divisions is the mainstream approach

Honestly islamist do keep our ethno-centric steak at check (ANP-JUI, here TLP stopped the statues) @Jf-17 block 3 is right in some ways here

Back to topic
Its mostly about promoting local culture, history, language etc etc nothing too serious

Keep in mind reddit is mostly of English speaking diaspora and not people living in Pakistan and will attract ethno-centric folks in the first place so this is a very small, specific group of people

even the most fervent ethno-nationalist draw the line at separation be it Pashtun, Sindh, Punjabi spaces (afaik), Pakistan except for Baluchistan no truly English educated will talk against Pakistan the country
they hate Pakistani nationalism (including Punjabi spaces) and I agree with some of their arguments here
Will crap talk about different groups of Pakistan - Sindhi-Muhajir beef, Pashtun hating on Punjabis and Punjabis crap talking Pashtuns (tbf this is a historical beef dating back centuries), Hindustani people
Pashtun, Punjabis are both very much into Pakistani nationalist (not talking about Reddit in general) compared to other groups, also (because are neighbors) have Punjabi pathan and Hindko phenomenon -

but the ethno-centric folks of both sides don't particularly like each other, ethno-nationalist folks holds Ranjeet Singh in good light, respected figure cause he stopped and pushed back Afghans (the whole "Sher-e-punjab" and Ranjeets statue thing was the conspiracy of liberal ethno-nationalist and it would have stayed that way till islamists pushed back and said enough of this BS)

They like those Afghan invasions because of Muslim brotherhood (you can still see islamists of punjab cheering on TTA and wanting a merger of two states under shari'a) - not only have historically they invited Afghans to Punjab against non-muslims
but stiffest opposition to khalsa rule was put up by islamist Peers of Punjab who in the name of jihad would raise jathas against khalsas (multiple times during course of Thier rule, Jihadi Lashkars led by some islamic figure would appear) while the regular people would consider them Thier own people or were too tired after 94 years of constant turmoil and moved on with life)
I think invasions of Punjab to some extent become successful because of struggle between secularists believing in co-existance vs islamists who helped the invasions in the name of Islam, jihad

This internal struggle meant people were always divided on how to approach invasions

But after Pakistan we can see islamist won this almost 1000 y/o internal struggle and now for the most part islamic brotherhood before.other divisions is the mainstream approach

Honestly islamist do keep our ethno-centric steak at check (ANP-JUI, here TLP stopped the statues) @Jf-17 block 3 is right in some ways here

Back to topic
Its mostly about promoting local culture, history, language etc etc nothing too serious

Keep in mind reddit is mostly of English speaking diaspora and not people living in Pakistan and will attract ethno-centric folks in the first place so this is a very small, specific group of people

Okay thanks makes sense, why do they not like Pakistani nationalism?

I guess they are not representative of the majority sentiments . Do you think sites like reddit/twitter thave any importance on forming opinions/spreading propoganda?

What points do you agree with ?