Erdoğan slams preachers over remarks on women, calls on Diyanet to take more active role

[Indus Pakistan]

This part is the real reason why im posting this, even when its rare, Erdogan does sometimes speak rationally, i'd like to hear the opinion of people in PDF.

I agree with him entirely. To be honest if you placed me on the Turkish political scale I would land somewhere in AKP territory. I like to think that I am quite conservative but the problem is Pakistan has tilted so far to the extreme that in the Pakistani context I am considered a uber-areligious westoxified heathen.

As regards what Erdogan said it makes perfect sense. Sir Allama Iqbal asked exactly the same for Islam in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" and he further pointed out that it was going to be the Turkish Republic where we would see the rejuvenation of Isamic thought. This prophesy appears to be coming true.

But with all their comprehensiveness these systems cannot claim any finality. The Ulema of Islam, being accepting the theoretical possibility of a complete ijtihad, claim of finality. This attitude should not be maintained any longer in such an ever changing scenario. The claim of the present generation of Muslim liberals to reinterpret the foundational legal principles, in the light of their own experience and the altered conditions of modern life is, perfectly justified. The teaching of the Quran that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors should be permitted to solve its own problems. The equality of man and woman in point of divorce, separation and inheritance is
possible according to Muhammadan Law.

Page 78.


Such is the attitude of the modern Turk, inspired as he is by the realities of experience, and not by the scholastic reasoning of jurists who lived and thought under different conditions of life. To my mind these arguments, if rightly appreciated, indicate the birth of an International ideal, which forming the very essence of Islam, has been hitherto overshadowed or rather displaced by Arabian Imperialism of the earlier centuries in Islam.

The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.

To have a succession of identical thoughts and feelings is to have no thoughts and feelings at all. Such is the lot of most Muslim countries today. They are mechanically repeating old values...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reconstruction_of_Religious_Thought_in_Islam
https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

 

[Successwill]

The man Erdogan is referring to, the one who has the audacity to make such remarks.

But thank god he is gonna get what he deserves.



So whose remarks are more shocking?

Its not something that ll make me shocked. There are countless f..witts like him. I thought at first Yildiz is a political person known by the majority.

Of course i dont approve his remarks. Thats not the real Islam we know..

 

[xenon54 out]

I agree with him entirely. To be honest if you placed me on the Turkish political scale I would land somewhere in AKP territory. I like to think that I am quite conservative but the problem is Pakistan has tilted so far to the extreme that in the Pakistani context I am considered a uber-areligious westoxified heathen.

As regards what Erdogan said it makes perfect sense. Sir Allama Iqbal asked exactly the same for Islam in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" and he further pointed out that it was going to be the Turkish Republic where we would see the rejuvenation of Isamic thought. This prophesy appears to be coming true.

But with all their comprehensiveness these systems cannot claim any finality. The Ulema of Islam, being accepting the theoretical possibility of a complete ijtihad, claim of finality. This attitude should not be maintained any longer in such an ever changing scenario. The claim of the present generation of Muslim liberals to reinterpret the foundational legal principles, in the light of their own experience and the altered conditions of modern life is, perfectly justified. The teaching of the Quran that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors should be permitted to solve its own problems. The equality of man and woman in point of divorce, separation and inheritance is
possible according to Muhammadan Law.

Page 78.


Such is the attitude of the modern Turk, inspired as he is by the realities of experience, and not by the scholastic reasoning of jurists who lived and thought under different conditions of life. To my mind these arguments, if rightly appreciated, indicate the birth of an International ideal, which forming the very essence of Islam, has been hitherto overshadowed or rather displaced by Arabian Imperialism of the earlier centuries in Islam.

The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.

To have a succession of identical thoughts and feelings is to have no thoughts and feelings at all. Such is the lot of most Muslim countries today. They are mechanically repeating old values...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reconstruction_of_Religious_Thought_in_Islam
https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

Thanks. Yet its a very hard task as we see any attempt towards this direction is being discredited as unislamic.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Thanks. Yet its a very hard task as we see any attempt towards this direction is being discredited as unislamic.

It really is ironic how millions in Pakistan cite Sir Allama Iqbal's name - we have his https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Allama_Iqbal but rarely does anybody bother really looking at his message. I wish people in Pakistan took the time to read his "The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" and took on his message. Which is simple. We nee to reform.

https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

 

[takeitwithyou]

What this Yildiz commented needs to show what it says the Qur'an. The only thing I am aware of is tapping on the wife gently.

Quran says you can beat your wife- gently?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Quran says you can beat your wife- gently?

No idea what traditional religion has for women. Old Testament has "thrash them", Hinduism has "burn them". Poor women !

 

[Hack-Hook]

Quran says you can beat your wife- gently?

Well it says it can be done if she disobey . but I never saw anywhere that you can beat your wife just for releasing some steam and feel comfortable.
To be exact its allowed to beat wife if she refuse to sleep with husband and the beating must be so that leave no mark on the body otherwise its punishable by law . also remember its not allowed to beat wife of she refuse to raise children or clean house or do cooking or even refusing to talk to the hisband.
Its what stated but at the end of verse its said that God is aware of everything truth and its said so that imply its better not to practice this right specially at he holy prophet Pbuh an many occasion stressed on fairly treating women and not to raise your hand against them and he even said the men who are beating their wife are not among the pious (well may be my translation for the world Saleh is a little wrong) by the way in the next verse when it's explained beating is the last resort and first step is talking and solving the problem peacefully.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Quite Ironic... When you come across the fact... that if you get a Muslim from few centuries ago...into some of our today Muslim societies...He/She will call us...
"A Man/Woman of the 7th century..."

 

[Kaniska]

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has slammed Islamic writers over their sexist comments, calling on the Religious Affairs Directorate (Diyanet) to take a more active role in adapting religious practices to current historical and social conditions.

“We would never take into account the words of some marginal people who aim at nothing but to abuse the values of our religion, our nation,” Erdoğan said on Mar. 8 to mark International Women’s Day in Ankara.

His comments came after conservative Social Fabric Foundation head Nureddin Yıldız stirred debate by making a controversial comment on violence against women.

“Women should be grateful to God, because God allowed men to beat women and be relaxed,” Yıldız said on Mar. 3, in a video posted online.

Yıldız was already a subject of complaint. He previously sparked outrage after suggesting that children as young as six-years-old could marry other children or adults, as well as suggesting that men and women should not get on an elevator alone together.

Following the outrage, Ankara Public Prosecutor’s office filed a criminal complaint against Yıldız for “inciting the public to hatred and animosity.”

“These preachers have no place in our religion,” Erdoğan shouted in his speech without giving Yıldız’s name.

“They are either not living in this century or are living in an entirely different century because they are so impotent that they do not know Islam should be revised,” he said.

“You cannot implement provisions that were dated 14-15 centuries ago,” he said, adding that to “carry the regulations and traditions of a specific society in a specific date would only spoil the matter.”

He accused the preachers of using religious concepts “to be popular,” stating that “they are doing wrong not only to women but also to our belief and religion.”

“We can never accept that,” he said.

He said religious concepts can only be discussed by people who are capable and qualified on the issue, likening unqualified people who preach on the issue to “an elephant in a glassware shop.”

“I invite all people who comment on the matter to be careful, not to harm themselves along with our values and not to offend our women,” he said.

He said he had informed the deputy prime minister responsible for the Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) on the issue, calling on experts who work under the directorate in the field of interpreting the Prophet’s sayings and Islamic law to have a more active role.

Historical revisions on women in politics

Erdoğan also suggested that the ruling Justice and Development (AKP) has marked an “historical development in women’s participation in politics.

“The number of female lawmakers in 2015 has raised to 81 from 24. The number of mayors and mayoral assembly members also experienced a significant development,” he said.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/er...ls-on-diyanet-to-take-more-active-role-128470


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This part is the real reason why im posting this, even when its rare, Erdogan does sometimes speak progressive, i'd like to hear the opinion of people in PDF.

@Kaptaan what do you think?

Truley...this guy has guts to challenge something which most of the Muslim leaders fear to do it...NOt sure..if it is good or bad, but he has potential to become a leader of Islamic world...

 

[takeitwithyou]

Well it says it can be done if she disobey . but I never saw anywhere that you can beat your wife just for releasing some steam and feel comfortable.
To be exact its allowed to beat wife if she refuse to sleep with husband and the beating must be so that leave no mark on the body otherwise its punishable by law . also remember its not allowed to beat wife of she refuse to raise children or clean house or do cooking or even refusing to talk to the hisband.
Its what stated but at the end of verse its said that God is aware of everything truth and its said so that imply its better not to practice this right specially at he holy prophet Pbuh an many occasion stressed on fairly treating women and not to raise your hand against them and he even said the men who are beating their wife are not among the pious (well may be my translation for the world Saleh is a little wrong) by the way in the next verse when it's explained beating is the last resort and first step is talking and solving the problem peacefully.

Thanks for confirming. I thought it was a salacious falsehood by the Islamophobe's that said Islam says you can beat your woman.

Truley...this guy has guts to challenge something which most of the Muslim leaders fear to do it...NOt sure..if it is good or bad, but he has potential to become a leader of Islamic world...

Why do you lower standards of expectations for the Islamic world? He is a dictator and Islamist in many ways. Just because he says woman are to be treated with respect, does not make him a "leader" you look up to.

 

[MultaniGuy]

One difference, both of those religions have evolved from their cave mentality.

So does Quran say you can beat your wife - albeit gently as claimed by your follow Muslim & countryman?

Thanks for confirming. I thought it was a salacious falsehood by the Islamophobe's that said Islam says you can beat your woman.


Why do you lower standards of expectations for the Islamic world? He is a dictator and Islamist in many ways. Just because he says woman are to be treated with respect, does not make him a "leader" you look up to.

Islam says to treat Women with dignity and respect.

Erdogan is hardly a spokesman for the Muslim world.

I would go to an Islamic scholar to seek advice.

One difference, both of those religions have evolved from their cave mentality.

So does Quran say you can beat your wife - albeit gently as claimed by your follow Muslim & countryman?

Oh really? Have you seen Ultra-Orthodox jews with beards like practising Muslims?

What about sati that Hindu women do? Burning themselves to death.

Don't preach to us women's rights, hypocrite.

Islam elevated women by giving them rights, while other societies treated women very badly like in ancient polytheist Greece and Rome, in Hindu India, and in Zoroastrian Persia.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

One difference, both of those religions have evolved from their cave mentality.

Were ou talking about 'evolution' or what the Quran says? Read below.

Quran says you can beat your wife- gently?

You did not mention anything about 'evolved' but stated what the scripture says. I then followed on that by giving you a flavour of scriptures from other great religions, Hinduism, Christianity and Judaism. You then shifted the goalpost from scripture to the modern "evolved" states. If you agree with me that all regions have retrogressive aspects in their scripture but some have evolved you will find me in agreement - although there are still examples of toasted 'Sati' widows in India.

 

[Hamza913]

I'm more concerned about his remarks about marrying six years old children.. Many can't even speak properly and he is talking about getting them married...is he out of mind..because of some false hadeeth a certain class of mullah mindlessly speaks against the core principles relating to marriage and relationship.

Asalamu Alaikum

You have to understand, the guy didn't mean 6 year olds can have sex, he meant parents could get them officially married early. The actual intimacy doesn't occur until she is considered sexually mature by the society's standards.

Not saying I agree, but I think it does make him sound less crazy (still not completely up there though).

 

[takeitwithyou]

Were ou talking about 'evolution' or what the Quran says? Read below.
You did not mention anything about 'evolved' but stated what the scripture says. I then followed on that by giving you a flavour of scriptures from other great religions, Hinduism, Christianity and Judaism. You then shifted the goalpost from scripture to the modern "evolved" states. If you agree with me that all regions have retrogressive aspects in their scripture but some have evolved you will find me in agreement - although there are still examples of toasted 'Sati' widows in India.

you try to be too cute by half and I get it that is your schtick. He made a clear statement and I asked him to clarify. Instead of sticking to the topic, you wanted to attack other religions. Hope it made your day in your mind. No I don't agree that 'all religions' have evolved. I've read and be reminded here by many Muslims, see what many Islamic countries follow- how they follow hadith to the tee and 6000-year-old scriptures. I go by what I'm told repeatedly

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well I wonder what's all the fuss the preacher was wrong and erdugan was right as Islam never allowed beating the wife for the reason the preacher said.

Thanks for confirming. I thought it was a salacious falsehood by the Islamophobe's that said Islam says you can beat your woman.

Well if you want to practice that right be careful as it was the last resort and the holy prophet clearly didn't liked the people who practiced it . also very easily you can go overboard and then you can be punished by law .