ENOUGH!

[saiko]

The major reason for not endorsing action on Pakistani soil by foreign forces is that it would be a blatant violation of Pakistan's sovereignty, and would provide propaganda fodder to the extremists, therefore complicating the war effort.

It's only a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty if Pakistan does not agree to those forces operating there.

I don't know the exact reason the Pakistan army pulled out of Swat, but it's quite clear that the army was having some real difficulties up there.

The question is which do you want more - your pride or the Taliban out? If it's the latter, then you can not hold back - it has to be all out war against the Taliban. And if that means enlisting allies to help, so be it.

 

[muse]

What should be clear is that many Pakistanis still want no action against Talib - these arguments with regard to sovereignty seem only to be remembered when they are to be used against those who want Pakistan to be a successful state - That the Talib are Chechens, Uzbeks, Afghans and of course Arabs, that they have no respect for Pakistan's sovereignty is disregarded.

Pakistani citizens are coming to their conclusions about what they have to do to save themselves

 

[DarkStar]

Muse...your reading of the situation is wrong...Of course, there are those nationalities hiding in NWFP and FATA, but the Taliban threat is primarily from the Mehsud clan, and from the rag tag militia that has been recruited by Molvi Fazlullah, peasants and some religious students.

For the moment, the chechens and uzbeks are not to be seen in the recent advances in Buner, nor in Swat.

The drone attacks should only happen when Pakistani troops are on the ground, controlling the intelligence. Until such time, the attacks will be counter productive and are a factor in having fulled the current insurgency.

 

[Solomon2]

The drone attacks should only happen when Pakistani troops are on the ground, controlling the intelligence. Until such time, the attacks will be counter productive and are a factor in having fulled the current insurgency.

Since at least the effectiveness of the PA, if not its ultimate loyalty, is in grave doubt, why do you think having Pakistani troops controlling intelligence would be a plus? Wouldn't that expose Pakistani troops to greater terrorist threats upon their families? And you still haven't mentioned how drone attacks are counter-productive.

I'm sorry to write that the impression I'm left with, Darkstar, is of a person who talks aggressively but won't stick his own neck out. I suspect that if you were in Pakistan right now we wouldn't hear from you at all, or that you would talk big only on your way out, encouraging others to cover your rear while you ran for the exit.

 

[muse]

Darkstar

You post is representative of exactly what I was pointing to. With our blinders we cannot see what is right in front of us. It has been reported that there were among the Talib shock troops "foreigners" and that they spoke in a language the locals did not understand.

Ragtag militia? that has defeated the Pakistan army? You may be persuaded by that and many more such as yourself but it seems you have not thought through the implication of the position you are adopting.

See, Darkstar, fence sttting is simply not possible - we can't be in a position where there are some Talib who are not so bad, others who are very bad and ignore AQ -- all these are connected, the proliferation of names cannot hide that they share ideology, motivation, justification for their actions and training. It's a all or nothing proposition, we can't save some of Pakistan, we have to save all of it, isn't that so?

 

[hassanr74]

i am ready.