Enough with democracy, welcome martial law?

[monitor]

Not yet satisfied with military rule quasi military rule for 30~years out of 64 year of independence.

 

[batmannow]

or alternatively we could go to this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...142-justice-done-stop-crying.html#post3084117

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/201...sc-says-fc-involved-in-baloch-disappearances/

SC says FC involved in Baloch disappearances
Agencies *0*13 hours ago * | **
ISLAMABAD*-*The Supreme Court of Pakistan (SC) on Wednesday issued an interim order in the Balochistan missing persons’ and law and order case, holding Frontier Corps (FC) responsible for the disappearances across the province. The three-member bench of the SC headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry resumed the hearing in the case on Wednesday. In its interim order, the SC said it was the government’s responsibility to protect the life and property of its people and ordered the recovery the missing persons at all costs. The order stated that the helplessness of Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) was against the expectations, while it was also found that the agencies, especially the FC, were involved in disappearances. During the proceedings, Attorney General Irfan Qadir presented the report regarding law and order in Balochistan before the bench. He said following the court’s order, a high-powered joint investigation committee was formed to probe the Balochistan issue. The committee included members of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Military Intelligence (MI) and was headed by Additional IG Police Zahid Mahmood. The committee went to Quetta and investigated the matter from June 8 to 15, the AG said. Justice Jawwad S Khawaja questioned how long Zahid Mahmood remained posted in the province. The attorney general apprised the bench that Zahid Mahmood was never deputed in Balochistan. But the chief justice added that Zahid Mahmood was an officer on special duty (OSD). The court had summoned the defense secretary and Inspector General of Frontier Corps (FC), Major General Obaidullah Khan Khattak, to appear before the bench on Wednesday. On the last date of hearing, the chief justice had ordered to present 138 missing persons before the bench. Advocate General Balochistan Amanullah Kinrani told the court that nine persons had been recovered since the hearing began, while the disappearances in the province had also declined. The court also ordered Defence Secretary Nargis Secretary to order authorities concerned to make sue implementation court orders. The CJ said how come law and order could be restored in the province when the province’s interior minister was himself an absconder.
& we the patriotic peoples of pakistan , rejects any dececions by CIA backed croupt Judeges, InShaa allaha PAKARMY, is going to do the justice to CIA backed BLA, & CIA backed justice , & we hope that time, these peoples will not have the time to cry?

 

[Solomon2]

MUAFF KAR DO - NO MARTIAL LAW - EVER!replacing a wrong system with a weak system is not the solution.

Depends what one calls "weak". The Puritans of the Mayflower adopted self-rule in their Mayflower Compact but they did not remain a "weak" community for long.

Personally, I don't think the Pakistani system is worth patching; time shows that letting "right people replace corrupt" is not only difficult but ineffective. A fresh start might work wonders, just as the U.S. decided to abandon the original Articles of Confederation in favor of the federal Constitution.

 

[K-Xeroid]

MUAFF KAR DO - NO MARTIAL LAW - EVER! Let right people replace corrupt but replacing a wrong system with a weak system is not the solution.

and which one is right candidate according to you? This system have already destroyed our economy, our currency is getting lower day by day, and politicians are still enjoying their luxurious life , atleast military have some strong command unit to control conditions. how can you understand that wat we are facing? SHAME ON SUCH DEMOCRACY .

 

[lem34]

SC says FC involved in Baloch disappearances | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

I think the core issue of your argument is addressed very well by Thomas Jefferson who was not only a founding father of America was a US president and the principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence. He wrote to friend,

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest (emphasis in original). The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country, by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us: thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means. . . "


I also invite you to read the following two articles:

Pakistani businessmen decry ISI-bashing
Majyd Aziz


CIA, MOSSAD, MI-6, RAW, and of course, ISI. These are some of the well-known, respected, and feared organizations, generally known as intelligence or secret agencies, and are mandated by their respective governments or charters to undertake designated activities that are crucial for national security and national integrity of their motherland. Over the past many decades, other such agencies have been in the news and most of them have been infamous, not only in their own country, but throughout the world. Russia’s KGB, Shah of Iran’s SAVAK, former East Germany’s STASI, or the vicious gang of Haiti’s ‘Papa Doc’ Duvalier, officially known as MVSN, but contemptuously nicknamed by every Haitian as Tonton Macoutes. Each and every country, and there are 196 countries in the world, has some structured organization that could be termed as an intelligence agency.

What has become synonymous with these secret intelligence organizations is their portrayal in public as tough, conspiratorial, disregard for world protocols, ruthless, knowledgeable, and in many cases, ‘state within a state’. While accusations and proofs do manifest such thinking, the fact is that for these agencies, the primary objective is to protect and secure the nation from external and even internal threats, intrigues, and more importantly attacks in any manner and channel. Therefore, bashing the nation’s intelligence apparatus is in effect undermining the national security and national responsibility.

Over the last few years, a new thinking has developed in certain quarters and this is assuming ominous proportions. Whispers became words, words became print, print became online debates, and these debates resonated from small hamlets in the interior of Pakistan to the capitals of the world. What should have been nipped in the bud, or just gossiped in the parlors, was broadcast all over through the global megaphone. Suddenly, an organization whose prime objective is to ensure national security and to provide all possible intelligence reports and position papers to the armed forces is being unnecessarily compromised and even postings of the hierarchy have become subjects of pros and cons.

The impetus created by a civilian government to what it called bringing the organization under the executive in its fullest sense triggered warning sirens inside the portals of the well-secured enclave in Rawalpindi. A flurry of actions was immediately conducted and the executive backed down, albeit with a bitter taste in the mouth. Although the status quo was, and has been, maintained and the juggernaut in Islamabad’s Aabpara is functioning as before, the hard fact is that a pretty solid dent has been created in its armor. The invulnerable armor of the organization was further attacked in the back when a mischievous but poignantly damaging clause in the much-publicized lollipop from Capitol Hill called Kerry-Lugar-Berman Act desired that this organization be under true civilian authority. Again, the defenders of the nation brought much needed sanity and prevailed upon the residents of the two regal edifices in Margalla to understand the ramifications of this clause as it would not promote democracy but may unpleasantly damage the process of reconciliation and constitutional authority.

Ever since these externally initiated dents, pointing fingers towards Aabpara has become a favorite pastime for many who exert influence in this country. The self-styled liberals have joined in as a chorus and further exacerbated the situation without comprehending the sensitivity and insight of safeguarding the national strategic assets. Ironically, taking due course to the immortal words of President Harry Truman that “the buck stops here”, the focus has been on the decisions and actions of those who skippered the sensitive organization. The background of these actions has been scrutinized with a bias while opaque glasses are worn to justify the vehement opposition to what transpired behind closed doors.

also read this

18 October, 2011

Manhattan Federal Judge Alvin Hellerstein has declined to hold the CIA in contempt for destroying videos that it had been ordered by the courts to preserve.

The case revolves around 92 videos, depicting hundreds of hours of interrogations of detainees. The tapes allegedly contained evidence of torture, and the CIA was ordered by numerous courts to produce the videos in relation to lawsuits arising from torture allegations. The 9/11 Commission also demanded that the tapes be produced. Instead, the agency destroyed them.

Although the Obama Justice Department had already decided last year that no criminal charges would be filed for this blatant obstruction of justice, Judge Hellerstein’s recent ruling insures that the agency will not even face civil sanctions or so much as a contempt order for willfully breaking the law.

In his ruling, Judge Hellerstein, the very judge who had ordered the CIA to produce the tapes in September of 2004, notes that the agency had instead provided a description of what they say was on the tapes and “implemented new protocols” to insure that they don’t destroy evidence again, so there is no need to hold them accountable in any way.

Judge Hellerstein’s decision is not without precedent.

In 2010, Obama’s Office of Legal Council wrote a memo arguing the legality of Obama’s secret list of assassination targets, a list that apparently includes American citizens who have not been convicted or even charged of a crime. The memo was used as the legal justification for the extrajudicial assassination of Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen who the President ordered murdered early last year.

Now, the Obama White House is arguing that they don’t even have to show the justification for ordering the unconstitutional assassination of one of its own citizens.

Still, concerned citizens are attempting to challenge the Obama regime’s power grabs in court.

Earlier this year, Senator Wyden revealed that the federal government has a secret interpretation of the PATRIOT Act that allows the government much more power than is suggested by the wording of the act itself.

When Charlie Savage of the New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the interpretation, he was denied on the basis that the interpretation is classified.

Last week, Savage and the Times sued the federal government for refusing to release the documents. The case is currently before Judge William Pauley of the US District Court.


The Corbett Report | Courts Rule US Government Above the Law

 

[pak-marine]

Never should pakistan go on the course of martial law its a sham system , democracy must stay its $hitty as of now but its a mirror of current society , Next elections people will choose wisely ... its a long course , there are no quick solutions

 

[Hyde]

Sir,

But the politicians are also blessed with America and the aid. Isn't it?

WIth the type of politicians we have it is not not possible unless:

one day all the politicians are found dead along with their off-springs who are in the process of being advertised as the next version of the leaders for the next version of democracy - leaders 2.0 for democracy 2.0 -

or

We have a Pakistani version of the Orange Revolution.

Sir when I am only 3-4 years old I start walking but other powers break my legs and then I cannot walk for a couple of years. Then after few years I stand on my feet and walking slowly but then somebody comes and break my legs again and then I have to wait for another couple of years before I could stand on my feet. This has been happening with Political parties in Pakistan.

Most of the political leaders are corrupt but that is also to the fact that they were never allowed to stand on their feet and walk/run by themselves. Their legs were broken by the military rule every now and than and the process to distinguish between Good politicians and bad politicians could never take place in Pakistan. Now for the first time in Pakistan's history the democratic set up is functional and although the most corrupt government in our history and the full of incompetent leaders but the process was allowed to go for 4 and half years and the public tried them and saw their work... now in the next elections the incompetent leaders will be replaced with less incompetent and ultimately you will see a better government coming in future. It needs time to evolve...

Surprisingly, The military rule was always good for Pakistan's economic policies but I hardly liked the foreign policies of any dictator.

 

[Ikrash]

I for one favour martial law who cares about progress when you are getting basic needs fulfilled .
The common man doesnt care about how many dollars we have or how many infrastructure we possess but cares about manghai .

 

[Solomon2]

....democracy must stay its $hitty but its a mirror of current society , Next elections people will choose wisely ...

To what end? You have elections but you don't have democratic rule - the military kicks out or neuters elected leaders as it pleases and Pakistan's culture doesn't support minority rights. (If it did then ordinary citizens would be demonstrating to support the Ahmadi community from violence.)

 

[batmannow]

To what end? You have elections but you don't have democratic rule - the military kicks out or neuters elected leaders as it pleases and Pakistan's culture doesn't support minority rights. (If it did then ordinary citizens would be demonstrating to support the Ahmadi community from violence.)

even you have a valid point, BUT PLZ STAY AWAY FROM, YOUR OWN HIDDEN CAUSE, on this thread!

 

[SamantK]

I for one favour martial law who cares about progress when you are getting basic needs fulfilled .
The common man doesnt care about how many dollars we have or how many infrastructure we possess but cares about manghai .

Is it ok if the dictators sell your country out even if you get your basic needs fulfilled?

That situation is not a closed one and can only run for some time..after that, well you are living in Chaos, is it that hard to understand?

even you have a valid point, BUT PLZ STAY AWAY FROM, YOUR OWN HIDDEN CAUSE, on this thread!

Im surprised you did not tell me that long ago...

Take or leave what someone says, no need to get personal here. After all he is giving suggestions only..

 

[batmannow]

Is it ok if the dictators sell your country out even if you get your basic needs fulfilled?

That situation is not a closed one and can only run for some time..after that, well you are living in Chaos, is it that hard to understand?

Im surprised you did not tell me that long ago...


Take or leave what someone says, no need to get personal here. After all he is giving suggestions only..

some of his points are very good , this thread isnt about AHMEDIS?

 

[K-Xeroid]

To what end? You have elections but you don't have democratic rule - the military kicks out or neuters elected leaders as it pleases and Pakistan's culture doesn't support minority rights. (If it did then ordinary citizens would be demonstrating to support the Ahmadi community from violence.)

Wats the agenda behind bringing Ahmedi in this, your support is enough for them. Here we are talking about whole Pakistan, not about a community who already have America to care. why don't you call all those few thousand ahmedi into america then provide them all those rights watever you want to give them.

 

[batmannow]

Sir when I am only 3-4 years old I start walking but other powers break my legs and then I cannot walk for a couple of years. Then after few years I stand on my feet and walking slowly but then somebody comes and break my legs again and then I have to wait for another couple of years before I could stand on my feet. This has been happening with Political parties in Pakistan.

Most of the political leaders are corrupt but that is also to the fact that they were never allowed to stand on their feet and walk/run by themselves. Their legs were broken by the military rule every now and than and the process to distinguish between Good politicians and bad politicians could never take place in Pakistan. Now for the first time in Pakistan's history the democratic set up is functional and although the most corrupt government in our history and the full of incompetent leaders but the process was allowed to go for 4 and half years and the public tried them and saw their work... now in the next elections the incompetent leaders will be replaced with less incompetent and ultimately you will see a better government coming in future. It needs time to evolve...

Surprisingly, The military rule was always good for Pakistan's economic policies but I hardly liked the foreign policies of any dictator.

if you & your legs are dangerous for your own family, better give sacrifice of your legs, live on wheel chairs!

 

[lem34]

if you & your legs are dangerous for your own family, better give sacrifice of your legs, live on wheel chairs!

I like that