Engines used in different fighters

[Manticore]

WS-10

 

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

credits houshagai/martian

 

[Manticore]

two (and half) different types of WS-10 nozzles. The lightweight ejector type for J-10, and the high-speed iris type for J-11 (incld. a modified, low-observable derivative of this for J-20).

via milvipes

 

[The Deterrent]

1. J-10A with AL-31F engine.
2. J-10B with AL-31F engine.
3. J-10B with AL-31F engine.
4. J-10B with WS-10A engine.

 

[pshamim]

This may come as a Shock but WS-10 engines are not the copy of Russians but American engines

There is a popular belief that WS-10 is a copy of AL-31 engine and I do not dispute them. But what US defence industry believes totally differes with the popular belief.

Americans do not consider WS10 to be a copy of AL-31 but believe its origins are from US CFM56II engines. In 1982, the U.S. sent two of these engines to China for evaluation. Although this engine is a civilian, its main components - high-pressure compressor, combustor and high-pressure turbine - is identical to American turbofan F110

The Pentagon was against sending of these engines because of fears that China could learn advanced technology of this engine. However, the then President Ronald Reagan's administration insisted on this deal, provided that the motors must be stored in special sealed containers and opened every 6 months for inspection by American officials. Naturally, the Chinese did not adhere to the agreements, and opened the engines apart and studied the components. Before the arrival of the Americans, they collected them. It was reported that the engines never returned to the U.S. because they "were burned in a fire.

Thrust without afterburner is unknown, with the afterburner it is believed to be 132 kN. According to these characteristics, the engine is roughly equivalent to the American F110, used on F-15 and F-16.

 

[conworldus]

The design core may be the same, but for China, the major achievement would be the ability to produce the type of materials for EACH part that need to sustain the heat, the pressure for many, many hours. This can NEVER be copied. This is why engine development is so hard because so much of it is just trial and error until you get it. And the testing period can be hundreds or even thousands of hours. The induction of WS-10 means that China now has the foundation to build next gen engines. This is an incredible achievement.

This may come as a Shock but WS-10 engines are not the copy of Russians but American engines

There is a popular belief that WS-10 is a copy of AL-31 engine and I do not dispute them. But what US defence industry believes totally differes with the popular belief.

Americans do not consider WS10 to be a copy of AL-31 but believe its origins are from US CFM56II engines. In 1982, the U.S. sent two of these engines to China for evaluation. Although this engine is a civilian, its main components - high-pressure compressor, combustor and high-pressure turbine - is identical to American turbofan F110

The Pentagon was against sending of these engines because of fears that China could learn advanced technology of this engine. However, the then President Ronald Reagan's administration insisted on this deal, provided that the motors must be stored in special sealed containers and opened every 6 months for inspection by American officials. Naturally, the Chinese did not adhere to the agreements, and opened the engines apart and studied the components. Before the arrival of the Americans, they collected them. It was reported that the engines never returned to the U.S. because they "were burned in a fire.

Thrust without afterburner is unknown, with the afterburner it is believed to be 132 kN. According to these characteristics, the engine is roughly equivalent to the American F110, used on F-15 and F-16.

 

[pshamim]

The design core may be the same, but for China, the major achievement would be the ability to produce the type of materials for EACH part that need to sustain the heat, the pressure for many, many hours. This can NEVER be copied. This is why engine development is so hard because so much of it is just trial and error until you get it. And the testing period can be hundreds or even thousands of hours. The induction of WS-10 means that China now has the foundation to build next gen engines. This is an incredible achievement.

Material composition can easily be found by using chemical tests. Also the use and positioning of of ceramics based on temperature reading in different parts of the engine can be learnt when studying a proven design.

 

[conworldus]

Material composition can easily be found by using chemical tests. Also the use and positioning of of ceramics based on temperature reading in different parts of the engine can be learnt when studying a proven design.

No sir. It is not easily found. Chemical test uses different acid to decompose the alloy but unless you know before hand what it is, it takes a long time to guess. Secondly, it is one thing to know the chemical structure, but it is entirely different thing to know how to get that structure and its physical conditions. Metallurgy is a science based on theory but also hugely on experience and system control. This is something you cannot copy.

Now imagine going through the steps for hundreds of thousands of engine parts. Now that's a mountain of work! This is an incredible achievement.

Think why India is struggling so hard with its Kaveri engine?

 

[Beast]

The design core may be the same, but for China, the major achievement would be the ability to produce the type of materials for EACH part that need to sustain the heat, the pressure for many, many hours. This can NEVER be copied. This is why engine development is so hard because so much of it is just trial and error until you get it. And the testing period can be hundreds or even thousands of hours. The induction of WS-10 means that China now has the foundation to build next gen engines. This is an incredible achievement.

This is also the reason why WS-15 (next generation) engine is moving so fast. The foundation of modern turbofan has build up. Now is just putting up the jigsaw puzzle. From huizigheng, WS-15 project is going very smoothly.

 

[Chogy]

Very true. You may know that an engine element is 35% iron, 40% nickel, 10% titanium, etc, but it's not simply a matter of melting all these metals together. It is how the component is formed that matters.

 

[Tin Man]

Metallurgy- Not a point function. Rather, a path function.

Amen.

 

[nightcrawler]

The very unique engine of Beriev-200

Type of engines D-436TP
- take-off power, kgf 2x7500
- cruise power, kgf 2x1500
a very good post by an MIT professor
http://www.maximizingprogress.org/2010/07/beriev-be-200-russian-amphibian.html

 

[Firemaster]

No sir. It is not easily found. Chemical test uses different acid to decompose the alloy but unless you know before hand what it is, it takes a long time to guess. Secondly, it is one thing to know the chemical structure, but it is entirely different thing to know how to get that structure and its physical conditions. Metallurgy is a science based on theory but also hugely on experience and system control. This is something you cannot copy.

Now imagine going through the steps for hundreds of thousands of engine parts. Now that's a mountain of work! This is an incredible achievement.

Think why India is struggling so hard with its Kaveri engine?

Why bring India into this .We are not copier like you do

 

[nightcrawler]

Metallurgy is a science based on theory but also hugely on experience and system control. This is something you cannot copy.

This is true...