Energy-starved Pakistan seeks wind investors

[Hyde]

Bhai mere, wind potential ki dunia me koi kami nahi hai... jis din 1 GW touch kar lo, us din diefence.pk me aake bata dena. Tumko pata nahi hai outpout ka, aur tu mko pata nahi hai rewvenue/investmen t ka... jab ho jaye,,, to aa ke batana.

Jai Hind

TechLahore ke bhai phir explain bhi karo ke sach kya hai? aur aap ko kyoun lagta hai ke aisa nahi hoga aur aap ko kya lagta hai ke maximum kitne electricity generate ho gi?

Aadhi post ki bajaye poora explain bhi karo phir

 

[SpArK]

If it is true then why don't India close all its nuclear plants and switch to wind energy !

* India ranks fifth amongst the wind-energy-producing countries of the world after USA, Germany, Spain and China.

* India's position was 3rd in the World till September 96, thereafter it became 4th upto December 98, 5th upto December 04, it was 4th upto December 08 and now it is 5th again.

* Estimated potential is around 45000 MW at 50 m above ground level.

* Exhaustive wind resource assessment has been carried out in 650 stations spread over 27 States in the country. As on date 225 Wind Monitoring stations have indicated wind power density more than 200 W/m2 at 50 m above ground level.

* Micro Survey of Wind Resource for 97 Wind Monitoring Stations have been completed to know the zone of influence and Wind Power Potential around the stations to meet the requirement of wind energy developers in the country.

* Windfarms have been installed in more than 9 States.

* More than 95% of installed capacity belongs to Private Sector in seven states

* A good number of wind turbine manufacturers are active in India and producing Wind Electric Generators (WEGs) of rating 225 kW to 2100 kW.

* A large number of agencies have come up to supply components/spares/ accessories and to provide services like Erection, O&M, Civil & Electrical Construction, Consultancy etc.

* A large number of water pumping windmills and small aero-generators have been installed in the country.

* Wind-Solar and Wind-Diesel Hybrid systems have also been installed at a few places.

* The Central Ministry and several State Nodal Agencies encourage growth of Wind Energy Sector through financial incentives and policy support.

* The Ministry of New & Renewable Energy (MNRE), Govt. of India has established a Centre for Wind Energy Technology at Chennai with field test station at Kayathar to act as technical focal point for wind power development in the country.

* Financial assistance for Renewable source of energy is available through Indian Renewable Energy Development Agency, a supporting arm of MNRE, GOI.



Muppandal wind farm which is the largest in Asia .

 

[nForce]

What are the potential locations in Pakistan where wind energy stations can be setup???I bet the southern coastal region is one place.Any other region???Has there been any study/survey in relation to this???

 

[SpArK]

FLOATING WIND TURBINES IN THE NORTH SEA
by Jorge Chapa,

While our oceans house not only diverse ecologies and possibly the lost city of Atlantis, they now have something else to brag about: serving as prime real estate for some very renewable energy. Norwegian energy group Norsk Hydro is to place giant floating wind turbines in the North Sea that will provide a reasonable, environmentally-friendly and economically feasible alternative to standard energy generation processes.






“It’s attractive to have windmills out at sea, out of sight of land, away from birds’ migration routes,” said Alexandra Bech Gjoerv, head of Hydro’s New Energy division at a signing ceremony to develop floating wind turbine technology.

The design by Norsk Hydro uses a three -able tethered system, similar to the ones used in oil rigs, that holds a 200 meter tall steel tube with an attached turbine and three 60-meter-long blades. Norsk Hydro expects to be able to use this technology on sites located 50-100 miles off shore, and with a depth of up to 500 meters. Norsk Hydro’s turbine will be the first large scale prototype of its kind, expected to be installed in the North Sea by 2009. If successful, Norsk Hydro expects a full windmill to be operational by 2012

 

[SpArK]

 

[SpArK]

What are the potential locations in Pakistan where wind energy stations can be setup???I bet the southern coastal region is one place.Any other region???Has there been any study/survey in relation to this???

Pakistan is building wind power plants in Jhimpir, Gharo, Keti Bandar and Bin Qasim in Sindh.

 

[Hyde]

Please discuss about Pakistan's wind potentional and future projects only

This thread is not about India

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Wind and solar energy are definitely better than Nuclear energy since these dont produce any waste but thing is energy production w.r.t. investment is not that high due to lack of more efficient technologies. Also unlike nuclear power plants they require proper locations for setting up power plants more likely in coastal areas for wind. Hope that helps .

@fire
Thanks, you are spot on in your explanation!
about coastal locations; one clarification- it is not a must. The wind path must be unobstructed; which can happen on the coast or high ground. e.g. extensive farms are operational in Maharashtra/ Karnataka in the Western Ghats (abt. 50-100 km from the Coast). IMO similar terrain may found in Balochistan in Pakistan and other parts of the interior.
But Thanks again.

 

[nForce]

Please discuss about Pakistan's wind potentional and future projects only

This thread is not about India

ohh cmon zaki .. dont be so intolerant now...I guess u r talking about Benny's post...He was merely responding to a post made by someone else...

 

[v9s]

Good news indeed.
Hope it works out. In any case this is a far better alternative to Nuclear Energy; don't know why our countries are so fixated on nuclear power.

I'm sorry but wind power or any renewable energy source is NOT a real alternative to Nuclear power.

Renewable power is alright for the short term, but for the long term, you need power that is reliable, cheap and continuous, and wind power does not fit the bill.

Nuclear power is cheap, reliable, continuous and most of all SAFE. Reactor meltdowns are history and dangerous nuclear waste (spent fuel) is negligible and can be reprocessed to be used as fuel again

 

[BATMAN]

Discussion is going again to the point; what should be the way forward and same topic has been discussed in past in various similar threads.

I try to sum up my point of view again briefly.
We can make energy available by two ways:
1- Coservation
2-Generation.

Conservation is a detailed discussion but need to be addressed and promoted by govt. on preferential and constant basis... where as our criminal govt. is quite on this issue.
I had suggested to begin with tax reductions on high efficiency aplliances. Leaving further conservation discussion open ... i move on to production.
Way forward for energy production should be splited in three tires:
1- Short term solutions
2- Mid term solutions
3- Long term solutions.
Again leaving mid term and long term aside, i jump to short term and IMO solar power is the best option we have and govt. should seriously encourage it as it helps govt. in saving cost interms of transmission and Pakistan has highest transmissoin costs around the world.
Criminal govt. benifit by stealing electricity and this include both ruling part and opposition....
Good luck with the project...... however, i have no doubt senior ministers will get hevy kickbacks out of every large contract.
This is the only reason govt. is not giving any relief to private sector/consumer but only interested large scale state level deals.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I'm sorry but wind power or any renewable energy source is NOT a real alternative to Nuclear power.

Renewable power is alright for the short term, but for the long term, you need power that is reliable, cheap and continuous, and wind power does not fit the bill.

Nuclear power is cheap, reliable, continuous and most of all SAFE. Reactor meltdowns are history and dangerous nuclear waste (spent fuel) is negligible and can be reprocessed to be used as fuel again

You are correct, but only up to a point.
My POV:
Nuclear Power is viable only because X MW of generation can be created in a single unit in a shorter span of time. Due to the limits of present day technology, this cannot be done at present in respect of wind-power.
About relative cost/MW; i'm not current on present costs, so will refrain from commenting right now.
About safety; unarguably wind-power is safe. As far as nuclear power is concerned, technology has advanced much more than earlier, but the potential for accidents has not disappeared. N-Accidents need not not be confined to reactor melt-downs, even radioactive leakage/contamination is not an innocuous matter, will that need an explosion-level incident to happen? It can happen even due to simple material failure e.g. failure of a welded joint or seal or whatever. One major ingredient of accidents/incidents is good 'old' human error. In the Nuclear industry (as well as some others e.g. petrochemical) the consequences can be terrible if not catastrophic. Can we say that about wind-power? That's a no-brainer.
Regarding the disposal of nuclear waste: in spite of re-processing etc. etc. waste still remains! Storage and disposal of this material is still an issue.Knowing what i do about this matter in India, i can say that it has not found a final solution.
Hence my reservations.

 

[nForce]

Well I tried to find out some information about the Wind power generation capabilities/probabilities in Pakistan.Here is what i got.

the above picture by the meteorological department of Pakistan shows the wind power density at a height of 50 m from mean sea level.As we can clearly see,there are good locational advantages in the region around Karachi extending up to Hyderabad.My guess is close proximity to the sea is the reason for having a healthy breeze in the Karachi region.
Apart from that,there are good possibilities in the far West,the Baluchistan region as well as in the North West Frontier regions.But the current ongoing unrest in these regions,specially in the North, may prove to be a hurdle for the process of development.Difficult,yet not impossible.
So in my opinion,building Wind power generation units in the Southern coastal region in a large scale will be a good idea.Later on similar projects may also be undertaken in the North West and Baluchistan.
Pakistan,as we all know is recently undergoing severe power crisis.Renewable energy options like wind may reduce this crisis to a great extent,as well as produce employment to a lot of people.


I also have something for people who would like some further reading on this topic...

ESTIMATION OF WIND ENERGY POTENTIALS IN PAKISTAN


^^^This is a link to a thesis kept in the Pakistan Research Repository
written by Sheer Mohammad Nasir from the Department of Physics, University of Balochistan, Quetta in the year 1993 about the estimation of wind energy potential in Pakistan.An excellent piece.Those who are interested,should go through it..

 

[v9s]

You are correct, but only up to a point.
My POV:
Nuclear Power is viable only because X MW of generation can be created in a single unit in a shorter span of time. Due to the limits of present day technology, this cannot be done at present in respect of wind-power.
About relative cost/MW; i'm not current on present costs, so will refrain from commenting right now.
About safety; unarguably wind-power is safe. As far as nuclear power is concerned, technology has advanced much more than earlier, but the potential for accidents has not disappeared. N-Accidents need not not be confined to reactor melt-downs, even radioactive leakage/contamination is not an innocuous matter, will that need an explosion-level incident to happen? It can happen even due to simple material failure e.g. failure of a welded joint or seal or whatever. One major ingredient of accidents/incidents is good 'old' human error. In the Nuclear industry (as well as some others e.g. petrochemical) the consequences can be terrible if not catastrophic. Can we say that about wind-power? That's a no-brainer.
Regarding the disposal of nuclear waste: in spite of re-processing etc. etc. waste still remains! Storage and disposal of this material is still an issue.Knowing what i do about this matter in India, i can say that it has not found a final solution.
Hence my reservations.

Good points there

From a pure power resources perspective (maximum extraction of power from a minimum of resources), only one fits the bill: Nuclear power. But most importantly it can provide a continuous electric supply throughout the year. This continuous supply can be achieved because nuclear plants are independent of seasonal effects like renewable energy sources are.

Nuclear power is very cheap. Take for example France. They fulfill most of their electricity needs with Nuclear power and interestingly, they have the lowest electricity cost in Europe due to nuclear power generation.
Since nuclear power plant’s fuel cost amounts to 20 per cent of the electricity generation cost at most, this makes the overall cost of nuclear electricity generation relatively stable and hence inelastic to possible future escalation of fuel prices.

You brought up the radioactive leakage/meltdown issue. Let me tell you this: Modern reactor designs can produce more fuel than they consume, yield something like 1% the waste of old graphite moderated reactors, and are designed such that its impossible for them to melt down. The older designs that "melted down" were based on a positive coefficient. If you let the reaction go on its own it would keep going. Modern reactors are designed around a negative coefficient. If you let them go on their own they simply stop. You have to keep feeding them to keep them going, and thus the simple answer to meltdowns is cut them off, and the reaction stops.

Nuclear waste is a problem, and so far, the solution has been storage in deep underground areas.

Nothing is perfectly safe, but nuclear power is safe enough to be relied upon as a source of energy.

 

[Comet]

Good points there

From a pure power resources perspective (maximum extraction of power from a minimum of resources), only one fits the bill: Nuclear power. But most importantly it can provide a continuous electric supply throughout the year. This continuous supply can be achieved because nuclear plants are independent of seasonal effects like renewable energy sources are.

Nuclear power is very cheap. Take for example France. They fulfill most of their electricity needs with Nuclear power and interestingly, they have the lowest electricity cost in Europe due to nuclear power generation.
Since nuclear power plant’s fuel cost amounts to 20 per cent of the electricity generation cost at most, this makes the overall cost of nuclear electricity generation relatively stable and hence inelastic to possible future escalation of fuel prices.

You brought up the radioactive leakage/meltdown issue. Let me tell you this: Modern reactor designs can produce more fuel than they consume, yield something like 1% the waste of old graphite moderated reactors, and are designed such that its impossible for them to melt down. The older designs that "melted down" were based on a positive coefficient. If you let the reaction go on its own it would keep going. Modern reactors are designed around a negative coefficient. If you let them go on their own they simply stop. You have to keep feeding them to keep them going, and thus the simple answer to meltdowns is cut them off, and the reaction stops.

Nuclear waste is a problem, and so far, the solution has been storage in deep underground areas.

Nothing is perfectly safe, but nuclear power is safe enough to be relied upon as a source of energy.

Thanks for this information (bold part).

I watched an interview of some environmentalist on BBC and he was of the view that nuclear power is the cleanest of all. Yes it produces deadly waste but the amount is limited and can easily be managed while Coal produces a lot of pollution.