Embraer KC-390 Completes Certificate as In-Flight Refueling Receiver

[santacatarinabr]

The multi-mission aircraft Embraer KC-390 Millennium has successfully completed the military certification campaign as a receiver for aerial refueling. The Brazilian air force has released the refueling of the pair KC-390 and C-390.

Subtitled video:

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Something about the KC-390 just matches so well with the JF-17. I hope we see a pair of JF-17s refuel from a KC-390 one day.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Something about the KC-390 just matches so well with the JF-17. I hope we see a pair of JF-17s refuel from a KC-390 one day.

Oh we don't have the need. Ahh economies of scale. Ohh uncles of GHQ. Ohh it is an unproven design. Ahh the mighty C130s are enough.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Oh we don't have the need. Ahh economies of scale. Ohh uncles of GHQ. Ohh it is an unproven design. Ahh the mighty C130s are enough.

Y-8 baby.

 

[JamD]

Y-8 baby.

From what I gather the PAF isn't super excited about either the Y8 or the IL78 as an aircraft - with regards to flight characteristics and ease of maintenance and flying. I think the IL78 is primarily serving the heavy lifter role.

So who knows if PAF stumbles upon some extra cash we may look into this. I wonder if it can handle a rotodome.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

From what I gather the PAF isn't super excited about either the Y8 or the IL78 as an aircraft - with regards to flight characteristics and ease of maintenance and flying. I think the IL78 is primarily serving the heavy lifter role.

So who knows if PAF stumbles upon some extra cash we may look into this. I wonder if it can handle a rotodome.

Y20/AN70/AN188 to replace IL78 and KC390/AN 170(TAI hopes to make a similar jet through JV) replace to replace C130.

Kesa?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

From what I gather the PAF isn't super excited about either the Y8 or the IL78 as an aircraft - with regards to flight characteristics and ease of maintenance and flying. I think the IL78 is primarily serving the heavy lifter role.

So who knows if PAF stumbles upon some extra cash we may look into this. I wonder if it can handle a rotodome.

I hope. The biggest blocker with the KC-390 would be the Cobham AAR pods, which come from the UK and may involve some manufacturing in India.

However, not all hope is lost because we can get Ukraine's UPAZ pods.

The good thing about the KC-390 is that it was designed to support AAR from the onset, so it's more of an issue of replacing the Cobham AAR pods with the UPAZ AAR pods.

If we're in luck, Embraer wouldn't need to do a lot of work to make that switch since the UPAZ AAR pods work along the same principle (e.g., connect to a fuel source along the wings).

As for the AEW&C application. If we can't fit a rotodome, we might be able to add conformal AESA radar modules around the airframe (ala Israeli Phalcon). We might get that gnarly nose-mouth situation though.

 

[SQ8]

Y-8 baby.

No one likes flying the ZDK - I would be surprised if they would happily accept its transport variants for more flying.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No one likes flying the ZDK - I would be surprised if they would happily accept its transport variants for more flying.

I think the PAF would just say, "only a Herc can replace a Herc."

There are no other platforms like it in terms of the balance of cost, capability and maturity. That's why even the old Herc operators are replacing it with new Hercs. The PAF would likely prefer having a fleet of new-build C-130Js or LM-100Js (which can last for 50+ years), but it depends on funding and the US. I think if the CSF and FMF stuff lets up, it'd be smart to put it all towards new Herc's.

Basically, the PAF's ideal logistics force is C-130Js, A330 MRTTs and CN235s.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I think the PAF would just say, "only a Herc can replace a Herc."

There are no other platforms like it in terms of the balance of cost, capability and maturity. That's why even the old Herc operators are replacing it with new Hercs. The PAF would likely prefer having a fleet of new-build C-130Js or LM-100Js (which can last for 50+ years), but it depends on funding and the US. I think if the CSF and FMF stuff lets up, it'd be smart to put it all towards new Herc's.

Basically, the PAF's ideal logistics force is C-130Js, A330 MRTTs and CN235s.

If America gives us anything it will be nothing less than a miracle.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If America gives us anything it will be nothing less than a miracle.

True, but the Herc is one of those aircraft that perfectly works for its intended role (alongside the Chinook and Black Hawk). If there's even the tiniest sliver of hope, the PAF would be justified in trying to pursue it.

That said, I do think the KC-390 can at least be a good complementary solution.

Its A320 engines make it an efficient aircraft, a key benefit in the AAR role. The KC-390 may not be the best for high-altitude operations up north, but it may be able to handle our logistics needs in other regions.

That way, we can at least preserve the C-130s we have now for operations in high-altitude and unprepared / rough environments until we figure out a true replacement.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

True, but the Herc is one of those aircraft that perfectly works for its intended role (alongside the Chinook and Black Hawk). If there's even the tiniest sliver of hope, the PAF would be justified in trying to pursue it.

That said, I do think the KC-390 can at least be a good complementary solution.

Its A320 engines make it an efficient aircraft, a key benefit in the AAR role. The KC-390 may not be the best for high-altitude operations up north, but it may be able to handle our logistics needs in other regions.

That way, we can at least preserve the C-130s we have now for operations in high-altitude and unprepared / rough environments until we figure out a true replacement.

I agree dude C130 is king for unprepared. Or maybe I should say turboprop is. How does A400 do on unprepared runways any info??

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I agree dude C130 is king for unprepared. Or maybe I should say turboprop is. How does A400 do on unprepared runways any info??

A400M has a price tag of $400 m to $500 m per plane bro.

One interesting mix could be the KC-390 (for AAR and standard logistics) and C-27J (for high-altitude and unprepared). The C-27J is definitely on the lighter side, but it still has a heavier lift than the C295.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

A400M has a price tag of $400 m to $500 m per plane bro.

One interesting mix could be the KC-390 (for AAR and standard logistics) and C-27J (for high-altitude and unprepared). The C-27J is definitely on the lighter side, but it still has a heavier lift than the C295.

Antonov/TAIoptions are there too(multiple designs) and then there is Iron Brother with Y20. Question is will PAF wake up to the fact that current 60s era C130s are nearing their end in medium term and start thinking about it. Or sit back until last moment while focusing all funds towards Azm/JF17.

I believe they should at least start thinking about it. So they don't have to go begging at last minute to America bahadur or Iron Brother or something.

A400M has a price tag of $400 m to $500 m per plane bro.

How does Antonov's take on A400 design stack up against A400M??

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Antonov/TAIoptions are there too(multiple designs) and then there is Iron Brother with Y20. Question is will PAF wake up to the fact that current 60s era C130s are nearing their end in medium term and start thinking about it. Or sit back until last moment while focusing all funds towards Azm/JF17.

I believe they should at least start thinking about it. So they don't have to go begging at last minute to America bahadur or Iron Brother or something.

How does Antonov's take on A400 design stack up against A400M??

I think the PAF thought about it, and probably tried to get a solution. However, I wouldn't underestimate the negative impact FATF has on our ability to buy things. For example, it makes getting banks to guarantee our government-to-government trades much harder, never mind getting financing.

I honestly believe if not for FATF, we might have ordered Eurofighter Typhoons back in 2015. Not only that, but like Egypt, we'd be talking about building a fleet of 72 Typhoons by 2030. I'm not kidding. The "isolation" is quite real, it's only us forum jocks making fun of the Indians, but the Indians are having the real laugh.

That aside, the An-72 looks promising, but who's going to back it? We don't have the drive and funding to do it.

@SQ8