Egypt’s Sisi Promises Rapid Growth

[Inspector Spacetime]

Yes it is. Please don't presume you can tell a 52 year-old Egyptian what is and isn't ambitious in his own country, especially its economy where practically my entire family has some connection in one way or another. Let's make sure we understand where we're all coming from here. And I said AMBITIOUS BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. People need to understand words when they read them.

If you -- and many of the hateful anti-Sisi crowd on this forum -- put that hate aside for just 20 minutes and took a good look at the list of accomplishments, even just in the economy and nothing else that have happened under Sisi in an objective manner, you would truly understand the magnitude of what he's accomplished in merely 5 years since the country was on the brink of falling into a failed state thanks to the crotch grabbing on TV Morsi that you Turks love so much only God knows exactly why?!

Foreign reserves were barely over $10 billion and now they're at $46 billion and growing at an unprecedented rate Egypt has NEVER seen in it's entire history. Egypt's current GDP is $336 billion the only other country in Africa currently ahead is Nigeria at $405 B. Universal health care just implemented. Dependency on imported natural gas has just ended 1 month ago and now Egypt is not only self sufficient, it's an exporter of gas. These are things that were unheard of at the start of this campaign not to mention the gazillion mega projects that have been created in the country including the construction of the new capital. There's been improvements in education, in infrastructure, in sanitation and roadways and so much more. So let's not let our political cloud of Sisi-hatred get in the way of the objective, ground realities that are incredibly positive.

Oh, and the Ethiopian dam issue, it's finally been resolved by Sisi himself and his diplomatic prowess which he excels at. People never give him nearly enough deserved credit for that particular skill he has. What kind of a feat was that problem alone?

lol, good luck to all those clowns. Look, how many Turkish clowns are anti Erdogan? Even better, how many people are currently trying to IMPEACH Trump here in the US let alone those who are creating media against him? There's a billionaire who buys 100's of millions of $ in TV adds calling for his impeachement an where is Trump now? His popularity is actually increasing, that orange-headed, genitalia-grabbing clown lol. Com'on, maaaaan.



Thank you, bu spare us, please. With all due respect, we don't need your support nor do we care. Most of you Turks have made enemies of us because of your support of Erdogans big, fat, filthy mouth and the gublush that comes out of it that has made us into enemies. We didn't start this. If there's anyone to look at and criticize for creating the tensions between our countries, it's the big-mouth sultan wannabe. And that big mouth of his has not only made enemies of us, take a look around at who he's pissed off and created tensions with because he's a diplomatic idiot. Talk about a clown!



And they will stay crushed under Sisi's feet until they disappear from the face of this earth. I have absolutely no problem with weeding out each and every one of them until they evaporate. What you need to understand is the UNPOPULARITY of the Crapperhood, not just their measly terroristic state and agenda.



"Mainstream movement?" You gotta be kidding me! You buy that load of crap? Let me tell you something about the Brotherhood and ALL their affiliates and their ideology. Do you know who's their mentor/founder? His name was Hassan Al Banna who was the biggest political clown and hack to ever come up with an organization that did anything but follow the principles of the Prophet (SAWS) and the hadiths. When this clown started the MB in 1928, he wrote a series of conceptualized writings to form the basis of the brotherhood (which the clowns of today adhere to stick by stick) which were nothing but stances meant to advance the aims of the group and promote the interests of its members or supporters ONLY. They had nothing to do with advocating growth, security, better living or anything for a nation and there was nothing mainstream about them! They were a mob and nothing else. Ever hear the saying "The Mob Rules?" Well, that's what they philosophy is entirely based on. And many of their Islamic outlooks actually conflicted with the modern-day scholars who understood A LOT more than these drubs. They were strictly oriented at strengthening the political power of the group itself and only itself. This is why Gamal Abdel Nasser crushed them left and right and Sadat after him as well who unfortunately got embroiled in peace with Israel that he became complacent about them. Once they were miraculously given the keys to rule what happened? They almost drove the country into the abyss! Now let's hope Sisi finishes the job once and for all ya Rab!



lol. They might as well start digging their own graves before taking up arms, trust me. The new chief of intelligence that Sisi just appointed has one, main priority and that is to weed out any remnants of that heretic and disgusting group of scum.



Wuuut?! You wanna take that back? Nobody is "forced into terrorism." Becoming a filthy, murderous insecticidal cretin cockroach is nothing but a choice lol.



You can't be serious. Please, stop.



No one is perfect, my bro. Sisi has many qualities that are not very appealing, yet he's the best thing that happened to Egypt at the worst time of it's storied history. He's tough, strong and makes the difficult decisions that need to be made for a country like Egypt and most of all, his outlook for the country and its prosperity is like none other we've seen in our recent history. Practically every single move he's made has been successful and that's why the haters who dislike him are losing their shit, bro.



He's done a lot of that. Sisi is not of that school where he positions people just because of connections. That's a thing of the past, ma man. His appointings have been spot on, a huge reason for his own success. Take a look at all the recent nominations he's made, including the many women he's appointed to ministers. One of the best which he re-appointed was Dr. Sahar Nasr, the minister of international cooperation and development. This woman is a genius and she's brought in foreign investments by the truckload for projects like sanitation and proper roadways to villages and many things of that sort. There was a huge write-up on her in Bloomberg.

He just appointed the first female minister of tourism (which as you may well know is huge business for Egypt) Rania Al-Mashat and just in the short time she been heading the ministry she has propped up tourism with very original ideas that she's the talk of the town. This is just a couple of the so many things Sisi has done that don't get seen or appreciated by outsiders.

I don't know anything about what is going on internally in Egypt so I don't have any comments about that, and I wish Egypt well.

But I do want to say why Turkey had such a strong stance against sisi from the get go. This wasn't due to Morsi, as you seem to believe. Morsi was being criticized as well when the topic was Egypt at the time of his reign. But the fact of the matter is, he got elected by Egypts people. Turkey has had a bad past when it comes to coup d'etats, and it suffered from multiple coups in its history and we as a nation have suffered for it.

My personal opinion about junta's is that they are worse than any terrorist could ever be. A terrorists actions/evil is limited compared to a junta, which wants to take over a whole country, of which a terrorist can't even dream of.

Sisi made a coup d'etat in Egypt and took down a democratically elected leader and took the seat of power for himself. You might say that sisi later on get elected with 90+% of the votes. The same thing happened in Turkey in 1980. Kenan evren made a coup, a couple of years later he got elected with 90+% of the votes. But 30 years later kenan evren got prosecuted for this coup. Justice was served, albeit late, was served nonetheless.

In the late 70's leading up to the coup in 1980, there was political turmoil in the country, especially between left- and right wing youth. They were killing each other shooting up each other's gathering places (like coffeehouses). At one point, the people were fed up of this. And when kenan evren made the coup, the people actually cheered him on. But little did the people know that it was kenan evren and his junta that were behind this turmoil in the first place. Agents were shooting up a left wing coffeehouse, then rides around town and the same guy shoots a right wing coffee house. It was kenan evren and his goons that created the circumstances to "justify" a coup.

After evren's coup a lot these youth were thrown in jail and some of them got tortured. Couple of them had gotten the death penalty. Evren himself said, if one from the left got the death penalty, that they would wait till one from the right got the death penalty as well. To show that he was 'neutral' on the matter. A CIA agent by the name of Paul Henze reported back to president Carter saying 'our boys have done it' referring to evren and his junta.

Before sisi's coup, I'm sure there was political turmoil as well? Protests etc.? Or other things to "justify" the coup? I'm not saying that sisi was behind any of this turmoil, gotta have evidence to back that up. But almost always it's the junta that's behind the turmoil to justify their actions. A quick google search brought me to this wikipedia page that seems to backup this hypothesis:
"Leaked tapes from the summer of 2013 that were later verified by J. P. French Associates [63] recorded figures of the Egyptian military, including then-Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, suggesting Egyptian military involvement in the mass-protests preceding Morsi's ouster.[64][65] In one of the leaked tapes, the generals are heard discussing rigging the legal case against Morsi, and in another, authorizing the withdrawal of a large sum of money for the army's use from the bank account of Tamarod, the ostensibly independent grassroots group that was organizing protests against President Morsi.[64][65] The tapes also suggest high-level collusion between the coup plotters and the Government of the United Arab Emirates as the money that is to be transferred from Tamarod's account into the army's account was provided by the UAE.[65] The tapes were first released on the Turkish Islamist channel Mekameleen, a fact that the Egyptian government says discredits the tapes as fakes.[65]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d'état

After sisi's coup, I recall hearing and reading about people dying daily during protests and the last I heard was 1400 people had died. In the coup in 1960 (in Turkey), they gave the death penalty to the then prime minister Adnan Menderes and others with trumped up charges. The pro-coup media even claimed Adnan Menderes had a plane full of gold that he was planning to escape with. And it seems like it's not that different in Morsi's case: "Morsi was also given a life sentence - equivalent to 25 years - in May 2015 after being convicted of conspiring to commit terrorist acts with foreign organisations to undermine national security."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24772806

And it also says this:
"Morsi was sentenced to 20 years of hard labour in April 2015 after being found guilty of ordering the unlawful detention and torture of opposition protesters during clashes with Muslim Brotherhood supporters outside the Ittihadiya presidential palace in Cairo in December 2012."
If Morsi got 20 years for this, then sisi deserves a way worse punishment for those 1400 people killed during the protests against him.

My opinion about sisi is shaped from what happened in Turkey's past and what happened during the time of the coup d'etat in Egypt, so I don't really think favorably of sisi.
But that being said, I can't fact check any of what you said because I don't understand Arabic but I do hope what you said is true in that sisi makes the right moves. I hope Egypt does well economically, socially etc. because I believe the country is far below where it needs to be when it comes to potential (needs to be G10 or at least G20).

 

[Gomig-21]

I don't know anything about what is going on internally in Egypt so I don't have any comments about that, and I wish Egypt well.

But I do want to say why Turkey had such a strong stance against sisi from the get go. This wasn't due to Morsi, as you seem to believe. Morsi was being criticized as well when the topic was Egypt at the time of his reign. But the fact of the matter is, he got elected by Egypts people. Turkey has had a bad past when it comes to coup d'etats, and it suffered from multiple coups in its history and we as a nation have suffered for it.

My personal opinion about junta's is that they are worse than any terrorist could ever be. A terrorists actions/evil is limited compared to a junta, which wants to take over a whole country, of which a terrorist can't even dream of.

Sisi made a coup d'etat in Egypt and took down a democratically elected leader and took the seat of power for himself. You might say that sisi later on get elected with 90+% of the votes. The same thing happened in Turkey in 1980. Kenan evren made a coup, a couple of years later he got elected with 90+% of the votes. But 30 years later kenan evren got prosecuted for this coup. Justice was served, albeit late, was served nonetheless.

In the late 70's leading up to the coup in 1980, there was political turmoil in the country, especially between left- and right wing youth. They were killing each other shooting up each other's gathering places (like coffeehouses). At one point, the people were fed up of this. And when kenan evren made the coup, the people actually cheered him on. But little did the people know that it was kenan evren and his junta that were behind this turmoil in the first place. Agents were shooting up a left wing coffeehouse, then rides around town and the same guy shoots a right wing coffee house. It was kenan evren and his goons that created the circumstances to "justify" a coup.

After evren's coup a lot these youth were thrown in jail and some of them got tortured. Couple of them had gotten the death penalty. Evren himself said, if one from the left got the death penalty, that they would wait till one from the right got the death penalty as well. To show that he was 'neutral' on the matter. A CIA agent by the name of Paul Henze reported back to president Carter saying 'our boys have done it' referring to evren and his junta.

Ok, I get it. A "similar" event took place in Turkey and I say "similar" and not the "same" because those are entirely different connotations. And I understand it brings back familiar memories with Kenan Evren's coup and so many of you Turkish fellows tend to look at the Sisi situation in the same light. Fair enough.

However, let's take a very brief comparison of the two events and see if there is a difference.

- Kenan Evren lead the military coup in 1980 which obstructed the democratic status quo by deposing prime minister Suleyman Demirel, then abolished the entire Parliament and senate and proceeded to abolish the entire, existing constitution!

- Abdel Fatah Al Sisi led the military coup against the first ever democratically elected president of Egypt as the country was embarking on a free fall into a completely failed state that could very well have been irrecoverable. He then allowed new elections to take place and was overwhelmingly supported by the Egyptian people to become a candidate and when elected, completely surrendered his military status and immediately created a new road map that involved a new constitution, and new parliamentary and presidential elections. Morsi was replaced by Adly Mansour who acted as interim president until new elections would take place.

Without getting into any more of the scrumptious details, what Sisi did was a far cry from what Evren did.
I'll tell you straight out, Sisi did it because he and an overwhelming majority of the Egyptian people couldn't bear seeing the country being destroyed by the terrorist group that miraculously got elected. He (as well as millions upon millions of us Egyptians) couldn't bear another minute of what Morsi was doing to the country and we were ready to accept that coup with open arms! To me, this was a noble coup because it had a noble cause and that was literally the saving of our country. People can criticize that way of thinking all they want and I couldn't care less. Egypt is far more important than what anyone thinks, and look at it today. How can anyone argue with the results?

Someone should put up a thread with a pole just for Egyptian members and ask them if they supported the Sisi coup or not and see how many would say yes. I guarantee you almost every member here would do so. And that is a valid indication of the support Sisi gets in Egypt.

There are many liberals who are on the cusp whom when you ask them that question, they'll say "eeehhhnnn...I don't really know....eehhnnn...because I want democracy to succeed in Egypt but eeehhhhnnn...I don't like the coup by Sisi but eehhhnnnn....I think the country is much better! lol. This is a straight fact.

Now there are some of the liberals who will say "I would've liked to have seen Morsi given a chance because that is democracy blah blah blah" well guess what, the time wasn't right. The time was to SAVE the country and then we can worry about democracy. Only the fools born whith silver spoons in their mouths and not a clue would be so lush, not to mention the armchair warriors on this forum.

Before sisi's coup, I'm sure there was political turmoil as well? Protests etc.? Or other things to "justify" the coup?

Nope. No political turmoil but something worst. The country was at the edge of a free fall into the abyss of failure. There is no justification for that under any circumstance. Not one. Egypt's foreign reserves were at a dangerously low level. It's financial power had dwindled to that of a can of sardines. Unemployment had reached 36%! It was a looming disaster of epic proportions. You see, many who criticize Sisi either don't know how bad it was, forget how bad it was or chose to ignore it. This is the sad reality. But not us Egyptians who went through it tooth by tooth. It plain sucked and was one of the worst times in Egyptian history.

A quick google search brought me to this wikipedia page that seems to backup this hypothesis:
"Leaked tapes from the summer of 2013 that were later verified by J. P. French Associates [63] recorded figures of the Egyptian military, including then-Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, suggesting Egyptian military involvement in the mass-protests preceding Morsi's ouster.[64][65] In one of the leaked tapes, the generals are heard discussing rigging the legal case against Morsi, and in another, authorizing the withdrawal of a large sum of money for the army's use from the bank account of Tamarod, the ostensibly independent grassroots group that was organizing protests against President Morsi.[64][65] The tapes also suggest high-level collusion between the coup plotters and the Government of the United Arab Emirates as the money that is to be transferred from Tamarod's account into the army's account was provided by the UAE.[65] The tapes were first released on the Turkish Islamist channel Mekameleen, a fact that the Egyptian government says discredits the tapes as fakes.[65]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Egyptian_coup_d'état

Well of course. How can we know if there is any veracity to those tapes when they're introduced by nobody else but Mekameleen in Turkey?
You know what else Mekameleen came up with? The secret tapes of recordings of "supposedly" a key Egyptian intelligence official "supposedly" calling an Egyptian radio station and GIVING HIS NAME lol and trying to convince the Egyptian people that Jerusalem should be Israel's capital and that is the right thing to do and that the Egyptian people should accept it because it is for the greater good. Honestly, that was laughed at to no end in Egypt.

Now how on earth are we supposed to believe any of that mumbo jumbo jive coming from Mekalemeen with these phenomenal revelations?

First of all, you can bet that Sisi and co, will NEVER EVER EVER be caught discussing ANYTHING of relevance such as a coup that is about to take place or any intelligence matters with a recording device being in the room. You realize that Sisi was head of Egyptian intelligence under Mubarak, right? He went to Oxford Joint Command and Staff College and studied at United States Army War College. The man has lived, eaten, slept and breathed military intelligence his whole life. So no, we don't believe it to be perfectly honest with you. He's A LOT smarter than his calm demeanor indicates and than most haters want to believe.

And it also says this:
"Morsi was sentenced to 20 years of hard labour in April 2015 after being found guilty of ordering the unlawful detention and torture of opposition protesters during clashes with Muslim Brotherhood supporters outside the Ittihadiya presidential palace in Cairo in December 2012."
If Morsi got 20 years for this, then sisi deserves a way worse punishment for those 1400 people killed during the protests against him.

To show you that I am objective, yes, he does deserve some culpability with the way the army & police handled that situation. They were way too aggressive with the squatters and figured enough was enough with the protesting which BTW, wasn't exactly peaceful. Many of these derelicts were burning streets and cars and buildings and causing chaos that wasn't helping the situation. Did they deserve to die? Of course not. But guess what, it sent the message and things calmed down immediately and the order of the day which was to bring back the country from the edge of the cliff was on tap. That was more important.

My opinion about sisi is shaped from what happened in Turkey's past and what happened during the time of the coup d'etat in Egypt, so I don't really think favorably of sisi.
But that being said, I can't fact check any of what you said because I don't understand Arabic but I do hope what you said is true in that sisi makes the right moves. I hope Egypt does well economically, socially etc. because I believe the country is far below where it needs to be when it comes to potential (needs to be G10 or at least G20).

Look, you are more than welcome and fully entitled to criticize Sisi all you want. But what I would hope at least is that you also see it from the Egyptian perspective and not just from the Turkish one. Isn't that a fair request?

G10 is way too ambitious, maybe even impossible for at least another 10 years and several of the top 10 would need to fall off the cliff in order for that to happen. But G20, yes, definitely.

And what fact-checking would were you talking about? I'd be happy to provide them to you in English.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Ok, I get it. A "similar" event took place in Turkey and I say "similar" and not the "same" because those are entirely different connotations. And I understand it brings back familiar memories with Kenan Evren's coup and so many of you Turkish fellows tend to look at the Sisi situation in the same light. Fair enough.

However, let's take a very brief comparison of the two events and see if there is a difference.

- Kenan Evren lead the military coup in 1980 which obstructed the democratic status quo by deposing prime minister Suleyman Demirel, then abolished the entire Parliament and senate and proceeded to abolish the entire, existing constitution!

- Abdel Fatah Al Sisi led the military coup against the first ever democratically elected president of Egypt as the country was embarking on a free fall into a completely failed state that could very well have been irrecoverable. He then allowed new elections to take place and was overwhelmingly supported by the Egyptian people to become a candidate and when elected, completely surrendered his military status and immediately created a new road map that involved a new constitution, and new parliamentary and presidential elections. Morsi was replaced by Adly Mansour who acted as interim president until new elections would take place.

After the coup in Egypt, the constitution got suspended. And now I am sure Egypt has a new constitution, since that was part of the roadmap? Evren also made a new constitution and this new constitution got implemented via a referendum even. And decades later we are still paying the price for this constitution. These are parallels between the two.
But that isn't my point. Not every junta does this. It's the policy used by the junta that is consistently the same or at the very least similar. And sisi's policy don't seem, as far as I can tell (also from what you are saying), any different.

Without getting into any more of the scrumptious details, what Sisi did was a far cry from what Evren did.
I'll tell you straight out, Sisi did it because he and an overwhelming majority of the Egyptian people couldn't bear seeing the country being destroyed by the terrorist group that miraculously got elected. He (as well as millions upon millions of us Egyptians) couldn't bear another minute of what Morsi was doing to the country and we were ready to accept that coup with open arms! To me, this was a noble coup because it had a noble cause and that was literally the saving of our country. People can criticize that way of thinking all they want and I couldn't care less. Egypt is far more important than what anyone thinks, and look at it today. How can anyone argue with the results?

This is what happened in 1980 in Turkey as well though. People also embraced the coup with open arms, people were standing in line clapping for the military. They also wanted the coup to happen because the country was 'going into a bad direction'. But this is exactly how a coup works though, they create the conditions to justify a coup and after the coup succeeds they start a smear campaign about the previous leadership to get a firmer grip on the country.
You also said 'overwhelming majority of the Egyptian people', that is quite an assumption. What do you base this on?

Someone should put up a thread with a pole just for Egyptian members and ask them if they supported the Sisi coup or not and see how many would say yes. I guarantee you almost every member here would do so. And that is a valid indication of the support Sisi gets in Egypt.

I wouldn't be surprised by that. If a poll would've been made about evren back in the 80's and 90's, it would've overwhelmingly been positive, but now he is reviled by most people in Turkey. This was due to evren shaping the policy of national news agencies that shape people's opinion. Personally I doubt it's any different in sisi's case tbh.
And don't underestimate the power of media and propaganda, no matter how smart and well educated a person is, nobody is immune to manipulations by the media.

Nope. No political turmoil but something worst. The country was at the edge of a free fall into the abyss of failure. There is no justification for that under any circumstance. Not one. Egypt's foreign reserves were at a dangerously low level. It's financial power had dwindled to that of a can of sardines. Unemployment had reached 36%! It was a looming disaster of epic proportions. You see, many who criticize Sisi either don't know how bad it was, forget how bad it was or chose to ignore it. This is the sad reality. But not us Egyptians who went through it tooth by tooth. It plain sucked and was one of the worst times in Egyptian history.

There were mass protests against Morsi, demanding Morsi step down. Sisi said if the demands weren't met, he would intervene with a coup. It isn't surprising that Egypt was at a freefall (I'm sure it wasn't that bad), because only a year before a dictator that ruled the country for decades got ousted from power. Morsi was barely a year in power, he didn't even get a decent enough chance. You are speculating that if Morsi stayed, it would've been much worse, but in all honesty we can't know that. And after sisi's coup things got much worse before they got better. The first year of sisi even Dutch news made an item about how bad it was in Egypt (particularly the tourism sector).

Well of course. How can we know if there is any veracity to those tapes when they're introduced by nobody else but Mekameleen in Turkey?
You know what else Mekameleen came up with? The secret tapes of recordings of "supposedly" a key Egyptian intelligence official "supposedly" calling an Egyptian radio station and GIVING HIS NAME lol and trying to convince the Egyptian people that Jerusalem should be Israel's capital and that is the right thing to do and that the Egyptian people should accept it because it is for the greater good. Honestly, that was laughed at to no end in Egypt.

Now how on earth are we supposed to believe any of that mumbo jumbo jive coming from Mekalemeen with these phenomenal revelations?

First of all, you can bet that Sisi and co, will NEVER EVER EVER be caught discussing ANYTHING of relevance such as a coup that is about to take place or any intelligence matters with a recording device being in the room. You realize that Sisi was head of Egyptian intelligence under Mubarak, right? He went to Oxford Joint Command and Staff College and studied at United States Army War College. The man has lived, eaten, slept and breathed military intelligence his whole life. So no, we don't believe it to be perfectly honest with you. He's A LOT smarter than his calm demeanor indicates and than most haters want to believe.

The wikipedia I quoted read that the recordings were verified and cited this as the source: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/13/...nd-potential-to-embarrass-egypts-leaders.html
Quote from article:
"Now, some evidence has emerged to suggest they are. In three reports given to the British police, a respected audio forensics firm has found “moderately strong” evidence to authenticate Mr. Sisi’s voice on two recordings and the voice of a top general, Mamdouh Shaheen, on another.

There are “no indications” that the recordings were fabricated by splicing together disparate statements out of context, the firm, J. P. French Associates, concluded, calling such editing extremely implausible."

The secret tapes of recordings of "supposedly" a key Egyptian intelligence official "supposedly" calling an Egyptian radio station and GIVING HIS NAME lol and trying to convince the Egyptian people that Jerusalem should be Israel's capital and that is the right thing to do and that the Egyptian people should accept it because it is for the greater good. Honestly, that was laughed at to no end in Egypt.

Wait what? Can you tell me more about this? I find this particularly interesting because of Trump's decision to move the US consulate to Jerusalem as well as the image of Trump and Sisi holding the globe in KSA comes to mind. There seems to be a correlation.
According to the source I posted above, the tapes weren't faked or edited. The recording about Jerusalem you are talking about here, is it part of these tapes?

Look, you are more than welcome and fully entitled to criticize Sisi all you want. But what I would hope at least is that you also see it from the Egyptian perspective and not just from the Turkish one. Isn't that a fair request?

Exactly, and that is why I am having this discussion with you.

G10 is way too ambitious, maybe even impossible for at least another 10 years and several of the top 10 would need to fall off the cliff in order for that to happen. But G20, yes, definitely.

In my humble opinion, the country wouldn't have been near the cliff if the coup didn't happen in the first place.

And what fact-checking would were you talking about? I'd be happy to provide them to you in English.

Fact checking in the sense that I follow Egyptian media and intellectual discussion about this topic to form my own opinion about what is going on in Egypt.

 

[Gomig-21]

After the coup in Egypt, the constitution got suspended. And now I am sure Egypt has a new constitution, since that was part of the roadmap?

Yes, I did mention that. It was hastily put together and I have no problem with the new constitution which limits presidential terms to 2, 4-year terms. Now, Sisi is in his 2nd term and the next elections will truly determine his intentions on abiding by the terms or not. We are perfectly fine with that considering the exceptional job he's doing.

This is what happened in 1980 in Turkey as well though. People also embraced the coup with open arms, people were standing in line clapping for the military. They also wanted the coup to happen because the country was 'going into a bad direction'. But this is exactly how a coup works though, they create the conditions to justify a coup and after the coup succeeds they start a smear campaign about the previous leadership to get a firmer grip on the country.

Morsi's failures didn't need any shaping from the military or Sisi, though. They were self evident and clear as day for everyone to witness. Adding a cherry on top of the cake was once he issued a decree to grant himself broad and unlimited power over even the Egyptian courts. That pretty much the sealed his fate and not anything Sisi did.

You also said 'overwhelming majority of the Egyptian people', that is quite an assumption. What do you base this on?

Being an Egyptian. I think that's definitive enough.

I wouldn't be surprised by that. If a poll would've been made about evren back in the 80's and 90's, it would've overwhelmingly been positive, but now he is reviled by most people in Turkey. This was due to evren shaping the policy of national news agencies that shape people's opinion.

But even you would have to admit that it's much harder -- practically impossible -- to do that in this day and age with the advent of social media. Mainstream media can only do so much but with the power of the internent and social media with the way it is shaped today, speaking out and revealing and exposing anything is merely done by the push of a button. Connectivity is on a much larger scale today that there is only so much manipulation by a government that can be done.

The wikipedia I quoted read that the recordings were verified and cited this as the source: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/13/...nd-potential-to-embarrass-egypts-leaders.html
Quote from article:
"Now, some evidence has emerged to suggest they are. In three reports given to the British police, a respected audio forensics firm has found “moderately strong” evidence to authenticate Mr. Sisi’s voice on two recordings and the voice of a top general, Mamdouh Shaheen, on another.

There are “no indications” that the recordings were fabricated by splicing together disparate statements out of context, the firm, J. P. French Associates, concluded, calling such editing extremely implausible."

Still very sketchy. Not enough to take as valid enough. Sorry.

Wait what? Can you tell me more about this? I find this particularly interesting because of Trump's decision to move the US consulate to Jerusalem as well as the image of Trump and Sisi holding the globe in KSA comes to mind. There seems to be a correlation.
According to the source I posted above, the tapes weren't faked or edited. The recording about Jerusalem you are talking about here, is it part of these tapes?

No, these were separate since they came out shortly after Trump's Jerusalem announcement. But you can see now why it's easy to be quite skpetical about anything that comes out of Mekalemeen, yes?

In my humble opinion, the country wouldn't have been near the cliff if the coup didn't happen in the first place.

It was on the brink of collapse prior to the coup, not after.

Bottom line, the problem I have is that Erdogan seems to have made way too big of a stink and not just that, his support of the MB and the constant chastising has been the essential reason for the tensions that have developed between our two countries and people, to the point where many of you Turkish fellows sit here on forums like this and other venues and lecture us about how we should view our own situation. I apologize ahead of time for sounding harsh, but that irks us to no end and makes us quite reactive to such comments, as you clearly saw on the first few posts. It's almost like we feel the need to say "It's none of your #$%@^**(@&($&@&@^!! business!" And why on earth would you ever want to make enemies out of us simply for your point of view and support over the MB instead of valuing and respecting what our own opinions towards our own government? Most people would find that unfathomable. But at least I respect the fact that you are astutely capable of having a respectful exchange about this sensitive matter and I can only stress that I hope more Turks understand that there is a fine line between engaging an offering one's opinion of another's personal interests, versus just coming out and saying this is the way it should be. Cheers.

 

[Nilgiri]

No one is perfect, my bro. Sisi has many qualities that are not very appealing, yet he's the best thing that happened to Egypt at the worst time of it's storied history. He's tough, strong and makes the difficult decisions that need to be made for a country like Egypt and most of all, his outlook for the country and its prosperity is like none other we've seen in our recent history. Practically every single move he's made has been successful and that's why the haters who dislike him are losing their shit, bro.

Interesting, thanks. I find him to be a strong confident leader....just what Egypt needs in this juncture.

I wish the Egypt the best!

 

[Kamil_baku]

Actually I believe in Military leaders as they always do sport and more energetic... Unfortunately RTE has bad relationship with him... He also should of not kill all those people as he could easily use watercannon, or other ways..
I also think that because of him, billions poured into Egypt from Saudi and UAE.. BUt, WHen Morsi was there they also had plan to put 20 billion from 3 gulf countries, but as UAE had plans, they stopped the petrol import and made the price to go so high so people also go against Morsi..
I think Sisi joining Greece forces just to show power to Turkey was a mistake, as its a very bad thing in Turkish culture. Now, Turkey will take a real threat and arm Sudan or anything to make Egypt think twice.
What i want to say it, some times military way of thinking is way different that Politicians. For SISI, it might be just an answer, but Turkey will accept it different which will make the relations even worse..

From one side i am happy that EGypt will not be too religious, on the other hand, being harsh, especially joining against Qatar, showed it behind Gulf countries, thats what i think was wrong decision. But, also it was not something that you cannot fix and disastrous, so good luck guys... I would love to hear good news..

 

[Gomig-21]

@Kamil_baku , thank you for that honest post and that is an example of what I was referring to earlier, that it's perfectly fine to criticize and disagree, but it needs to be done in a way that helps create worthy reciprocity. And I even agree with you as to how the deaths of the protesting was completely mishandled and that is on Sisi and co.

I think Sisi joining Greece forces just to show power to Turkey was a mistake, as its a very bad thing in Turkish culture.

But that wasn't the reason. There is a very long history between Egypt and Greece that dates back to ancient Egyptian times which also is greatly influenced by the fact that Egyptian Christians are Coptic, which is essentially Greek orthodox and so we have a connection with them that is much greater than a military alliance just to show power to Turkey. While I don't deny that has some influence on that relationship, but it's quite minimal to a great extent.

Now, Turkey will take a real threat and arm Sudan or anything to make Egypt think twice.

Here in lies the problem. It seems like most Turkish members always point to that "arming" of another regional country in an attempt to exert some type of power. By the same token, we can easily say that Erdogan and the Turkish government made a huge mistake for supporting and harboring the Muslim Brotherhood in an attempt to meddle with our internal affairs and undermine our government, ultimately creating this tension that now exists between our countries. So essentially, Erdogan and Turkey have created a defacto state of war with Egypt. When is this perpetual cycle going to end? Why would you ever want to do that and what is the benefit to you in creating such a terrible state of tensions between us over a defunct, political group that we want no part of an ultimately consider a state enemy that has now resorted to terrorism? You end up supporting them? Maybe now it's a bit clearer why we don't have much affinity left for Turkey.

Sudan and Egypt have been brotherly neighbors since ancient times and continue to be. No one will get in the way of that relationship, ever. That strategy will only worsen an already deteriorated situation and will benefit no one. Quite the contrary, it seems to validate our point that Turkey is being more like a "meddler" in our affairs which brings us 360 degrees back to why we are where we are today.

 

[Kamil_baku]

@Kamil_baku , thank you for that honest post and that is an example of what I was referring to earlier, that it's perfectly fine to criticize and disagree, but it needs to be done in a way that helps create worthy reciprocity. And I even agree with you as to how the deaths of the protesting was completely mishandled and that is on Sisi and co.



But that wasn't the reason. There is a very long history between Egypt and Greece that dates back to ancient Egyptian times which also is greatly influenced by the fact that Egyptian Christians are Coptic, which is essentially Greek orthodox and so we have a connection with them that is much greater than a military alliance just to show power to Turkey. While I don't deny that has some influence on that relationship, but it's quite minimal to a great extent.



Here in lies the problem. It seems like most Turkish members always point to that "arming" of another regional country in an attempt to exert some type of power. By the same token, we can easily say that Erdogan and the Turkish government made a huge mistake for supporting and harboring the Muslim Brotherhood in an attempt to meddle with our internal affairs and undermine our government, ultimately creating this tension that now exists between our countries. So essentially, Erdogan and Turkey have created a defacto state of war with Egypt. When is this perpetual cycle going to end? Why would you ever want to do that and what is the benefit to you in creating such a terrible state of tensions between us over a defunct, political group that we want no part of an ultimately consider a state enemy that has now resorted to terrorism? You end up supporting them? Maybe now it's a bit clearer why we don't have much affinity left for Turkey.

Sudan and Egypt have been brotherly neighbors since ancient times and continue to be. No one will get in the way of that relationship, ever. That strategy will only worsen an already deteriorated situation and will benefit no one. Quite the contrary, it seems to validate our point that Turkey is being more like a "meddler" in our affairs which brings us 360 degrees back to why we are where we are today.

I understand you too bro. EVen, Turkish people are mad at Erdogan for his stance against Egypt, but, as a real man, he couldnt turn his back to MB when Sisi killed them, that was the biggest mistake of Sisi as he didnt leave any room for conversation there where he could easily overcome everything with soft things..

Actually, Turkey doesnt want any problem in EGypt, Turkey has really different attutude to Egyptian or NOrth african countries. If Turkey wanted a war there, believe me Turkey has way too many options as they did in SYria, which they eventually found out that it was a big mistake.. Turkey needs strong Egypt, and the reason they dont join to do anything, They want more Gulf money and ISraeli money in EGypt. But, they also know that They cannot pour unlimited money, as it will stop somewhere. BEcause it also doesnt work for Israel to see developed Egypt. Thats where EGypt will see their real friends and we will see if those Gulf countries still support you, its really interesting for me too...

I really wish you all the best.. nobody in Turkey want you to get destroyed or anything else unlike others.. Turkey knows that in 5 years or even know with their local SAM and Cruise missiles, they are untouchable already.
I think Turkeys next goal is Yemen. Yemen and Qatar was only countries that didnt go against Ottoman, which is very important for todays RTE. Thats why Turkey will do anything to make sure Yemen never goes under Gulf control.. It is really stupid for Gulf countries that they dont understand the emotional part of it as Turkey have been very silent so far...

 

[Gomig-21]

I understand you too bro. EVen, Turkish people are mad at Erdogan for his stance against Egypt, but, as a real man, he couldnt turn his back to MB when Sisi killed them, that was the biggest mistake of Sisi as he didnt leave any room for conversation there where he could easily overcome everything with soft things..

I agree. There should've been more diplomacy from both sides. I think that what was being perceived by Sisi and many, many Egyptians was a disturbing trend by Morsi. It wasn't the direction that we wanted to see the country go into and when I say "we", yes, I'm speaking for all Egyptians and maybe that's not the accurate thing to do since the MB had -- and still does -- support from a certain percentage of Egyptians who might've been happy with that trend. Offering wide open arms to Hamas, aligning policies and ideologies with Iran and worst of all, declaring complete authority to himself after we just tossed the guy who did that for 30+ years and was the whole purpose of the revolution.

So seeing Morsi dethroned wasn't exactly a bad thing to be perfectly open and honest. Yes, it was a huge blow to a brand newly born democracy that we had no idea what to expect from it, and maybe it needed to be given a chance? But seeing the country fall into the abyss of a failed state was hardly worth 1 minute of visiting that sinkhole as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the kicker: Sisi has 4 more years of presidency allowed and the Parliament is pushing to extend the presidential terms to 6 years which I'm actually ok with since Egypt at the moment is in a MASSIVE growing stage that needs more consistency with the duties of the presidency that I wouldn't be bothered by that, and I might even encourage it. HOWEVER, whether it stays 4 years or becomes 6 years, what happens after that will be imperative to how I would support Sisi. When the term ends and he moves aside for the next president as he should, I'll be perfectly happy. If he created any type of shenanigan from here on, with the support of the parliament to find a way to stay in as president beyond his final term, that will result in my complete withdrawal of support for him. 100%. I've been ok with the coup, with him getting elected the first and this 2nd time but that's it! Now we need to see democracy work as it should because the country is and will be in an excellent state and there will not be any need for him to stay on. So that will be my view when the time comes and I hope he mans up and does the right thing. If not, I will hold him accountable for that and will never support him after.

Actually, Turkey doesnt want any problem in EGypt, Turkey has really different attutude to Egyptian or NOrth african countries. If Turkey wanted a war there, believe me Turkey has way too many options as they did in SYria, which they eventually found out that it was a big mistake.. Turkey needs strong Egypt, and the reason they dont join to do anything, They want more Gulf money and ISraeli money in EGypt. But, they also know that They cannot pour unlimited money, as it will stop somewhere. BEcause it also doesnt work for Israel to see developed Egypt. Thats where EGypt will see their real friends and we will see if those Gulf countries still support you, its really interesting for me too...

1) What do you mean by "they want more Israeli money in Egypt"? Where did we get any Israeli money? Please explain that.
2) Why would Israel have an issue with Egypt becoming developed? @500 & @DavidSling , is this the attitude of the Israeli government towards Egypt? They might not want to see us get nuclear weapons, lol, but why would they care if we develop a lot more than we already have? That would actually be in their interest. Please tell me why you think that.
3) So you think the Gulf countries will not support us as we become more developed? Are you aware of the Suez Economic Zone project development with Saudiya and the UAE and Bahrain (I believe)? Are you aware of the bridge that is being planned from Sinai trough Tiran and Sanafir to Saudiya to help with the pilgrimage and increase the brotherly bond between the two countries that has been there since the beginning of time? Egypt & Saudiya have been brotherly nations for a very long time an we have supported each other through the thick and thin.

The interesting thing is how many don't realize that our relationship with Saudiya is so far above and beyond the few billions of $ they gave us when our country was on the brink of collapse. And they also fail to see how Saudiya does these things with not just Egypt, but with many other countries because that's the way they are and it's the Muslim thing to do. Their first reaction is always "bribery! Slave purchase!" etc. It seems the sexy thing is the negative viewpoint and all else gets ignored. It's really too bad, but it's well beyond anything of the sort.

I really wish you all the best.. nobody in Turkey want you to get destroyed or anything else unlike others.. Turkey knows that in 5 years or even know with their local SAM and Cruise missiles, they are untouchable already.
I think Turkeys next goal is Yemen. Yemen and Qatar was only countries that didnt go against Ottoman, which is very important for todays RTE. Thats why Turkey will do anything to make sure Yemen never goes under Gulf control.. It is really stupid for Gulf countries that they dont understand the emotional part of it as Turkey have been very silent so far...

Yemen? Really? Why would you ever think Turkey will (not only be interested but even have the capability) but will actually get involved in Yemen to keep Saudiya and the UAE and the coalition out of any influence of Yemen? This is really extraordinary but honestly, I'm not surprised considering Turkish nationalism tends to get the better of you fellas' judgement, TBH. @Saif al-Arab , what do you think of this viewpoint, my bro?

HOWEVER, whether it stays 4 years or becomes 6 years, what happens after that will be imperative to how I would support Sisi. When the term ends and he moves aside for the next president as he should, I'll be perfectly happy. If he creates any type of shenanigan from here on, with the support of the parliament to find a way to stay in as president beyond his final term, that will result in my complete withdrawal of support for him. 100%.

BTW, isn't that exactly what Sultan Erdogan is doing to remain in power?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Gomig-21

Brother, the battery on my iPhone is running low (to put it mildly) so I will return with a post in a while. All I can say is that our Azeri friend and the content of his posts is quite "interesting" to use a neutral word. However I will return and put everything into place so even he grasps it. Some of it deserves a reply fitting of the nonsense but that is usually the case with Arab-obsessed foreigners who live in La La Land.

LOL at Yemen (Yemenis kicking Ottomans out as a piece of cake, let us not forget that most Ottomans were actually Arabs) and Qatar (despite modern-day Qatar being under Ottoman influence for some 20 years) doing the same. Apparently current day populations, whose ancestors kicked out Ottomans (majority of the soldiers were Arabs and officials) are now waiting for the Georgian Sultan to rule them.

Will return with references and sources to prove my post.

Let's not even talk about the ancient Hijazi/Arabian ties with ancient Egypt (closest area outside of Egypt and Northern Sudan) and very close ties on every front (geography, ancestry, DNA, culture, language, economy, people to people relations, dialect etc.).

It's just a complete and utter stupidity. Sometimes I can't believe what I am reading on PDF and online in general from foreigners when it comes to the Arab world.

 

[DavidSling]

I agree. There should've been more diplomacy from both sides. I think that what was being perceived by Sisi and many, many Egyptians was a disturbing trend by Morsi. It wasn't the direction that we wanted to see the country go into and when I say "we", yes, I'm speaking for all Egyptians and maybe that's not the accurate thing to do since the MB had -- and still does -- support from a certain percentage of Egyptians who might've been happy with that trend. Offering wide open arms to Hamas, aligning policies and ideologies with Iran and worst of all, declaring complete authority to himself after we just tossed the guy who did that for 30+ years and was the whole purpose of the revolution.

So seeing Morsi dethroned wasn't exactly a bad thing to be perfectly open and honest. Yes, it was a huge blow to a brand newly born democracy that we had no idea what to expect from it, and maybe it needed to be given a chance? But seeing the country fall into the abyss of a failed state was hardly worth 1 minute of visiting that sinkhole as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the kicker: Sisi has 4 more years of presidency allowed and the Parliament is pushing to extend the presidential terms to 6 years which I'm actually ok with since Egypt at the moment is in a MASSIVE growing stage that needs more consistency with the duties of the presidency that I wouldn't be bothered by that, and I might even encourage it. HOWEVER, whether it stays 4 years or becomes 6 years, what happens after that will be imperative to how I would support Sisi. When the term ends and he moves aside for the next president as he should, I'll be perfectly happy. If he created any type of shenanigan from here on, with the support of the parliament to find a way to stay in as president beyond his final term, that will result in my complete withdrawal of support for him. 100%. I've been ok with the coup, with him getting elected the first and this 2nd time but that's it! Now we need to see democracy work as it should because the country is and will be in an excellent state and there will not be any need for him to stay on. So that will be my view when the time comes and I hope he mans up and does the right thing. If not, I will hold him accountable for that and will never support him after.



1) What do you mean by "they want more Israeli money in Egypt"? Where did we get any Israeli money? Please explain that.
2) Why would Israel have an issue with Egypt becoming developed? @500 & @DavidSling , is this the attitude of the Israeli government towards Egypt? They might not want to see us get nuclear weapons, lol, but why would they care if we develop a lot more than we already have? That would actually be in their interest. Please tell me why you think that.
3) So you think the Gulf countries will not support us as we become more developed? Are you aware of the Suez Economic Zone project development with Saudiya and the UAE and Bahrain (I believe)? Are you aware of the bridge that is being planned from Sinai trough Tiran and Sanafir to Saudiya to help with the pilgrimage and increase the brotherly bond between the two countries that has been there since the beginning of time? Egypt & Saudiya have been brotherly nations for a very long time an we have supported each other through the thick and thin.

The interesting thing is how many don't realize that our relationship with Saudiya is so far above and beyond the few billions of $ they gave us when our country was on the brink of collapse. And they also fail to see how Saudiya does these things with not just Egypt, but with many other countries because that's the way they are and it's the Muslim thing to do. Their first reaction is always "bribery! Slave purchase!" etc. It seems the sexy thing is the negative viewpoint and all else gets ignored. It's really too bad, but it's well beyond anything of the sort.



Yemen? Really? Why would you ever think Turkey will (not only be interested but even have the capability) but will actually get involved in Yemen to keep Saudiya and the UAE and the coalition out of any influence of Yemen? This is really extraordinary but honestly, I'm not surprised considering Turkish nationalism tends to get the better of you fellas' judgement, TBH. @Saif al-Arab , what do you think of this viewpoint, my bro?



BTW, isn't that exactly what Sultan Erdogan is doing to remain in power?

Developed Egypt suits the needs of Israel as long as it's friendly

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I understand you too bro. EVen, Turkish people are mad at Erdogan for his stance against Egypt, but, as a real man, he couldnt turn his back to MB when Sisi killed them, that was the biggest mistake of Sisi as he didnt leave any room for conversation there where he could easily overcome everything with soft things..

Actually, Turkey doesnt want any problem in EGypt, Turkey has really different attutude to Egyptian or NOrth african countries. If Turkey wanted a war there, believe me Turkey has way too many options as they did in SYria, which they eventually found out that it was a big mistake.. Turkey needs strong Egypt, and the reason they dont join to do anything, They want more Gulf money and ISraeli money in EGypt. But, they also know that They cannot pour unlimited money, as it will stop somewhere. BEcause it also doesnt work for Israel to see developed Egypt. Thats where EGypt will see their real friends and we will see if those Gulf countries still support you, its really interesting for me too...

I really wish you all the best.. nobody in Turkey want you to get destroyed or anything else unlike others.. Turkey knows that in 5 years or even know with their local SAM and Cruise missiles, they are untouchable already.
I think Turkeys next goal is Yemen. Yemen and Qatar was only countries that didnt go against Ottoman, which is very important for todays RTE. Thats why Turkey will do anything to make sure Yemen never goes under Gulf control.. It is really stupid for Gulf countries that they dont understand the emotional part of it as Turkey have been very silent so far...

My Arab-obsessed Azeri (you are not even Turkish so stop talking in the name of Turkey, most Turks have no problems with Arabs nor are they obsessed as you, must be the Iranian influence or your original sect which is 100% influenced by Arab scholars funnily enough) I suggest not to troll on the Arab section for your own sake.

I also notice that your username and most likely name (Kamil) is an Arabic name to make it a bit more spicy.

Listen, Saudi Arabian and Egyptian ties are out of your understanding and reach. We are talking about ties that predate the notion of Turkey, Azerbaijan and Turks by several millennia.

The ties are inked in blood (as proven by DNA) that far predates Islam. By geography. By ancient civilizations. By people movements (migrations) that have been continuous since the Neolithic period almost 15.000 years ago and even before that as proven by archaeology and modern-day science. By culture. By language. By religion (s). By economic realities of today. For instance millions of Egyptians have been hosted in KSA for decades. Many have become naturalized. Many became Saudi Arabian citizens after the foundation of KSA since they had already lived here for centuries. In particular in neighboring Hijaz. Cuisine. Folklore. Dresses. Everything that you can think about there is some sort of connection, mostly a very strong one. When Egypt gained freedom under Muhammad Ali Pasha (Albanian) and allies, the closest ally became the Grand Sharif of Makkah next door (Hijaz) and Hijaz was under Egyptian protection for the next 100 years.

With all due respect to tiny Azerbaijan, Turkey included, you will simply never be able to compete with those brotherly bonds. That goes for all Arab countries.

Forget about Arab regimes here for a while. It's the people that matter. Even the regimes have much closer ties (economic in particular) than anything that foreigners can offer.

You do not care about Egypt or Egyptians as a brother, as fellow Arabs do. Egyptians are foreigners to you. You can use the religion card (Islam) but using that logic an Jamaican convert to Islam in some UK jail, is as close to me as an Egyptian or Iraqi or Yemeni or Jordanian etc. That will never be the case.

If anything KSA and the UAE (that you are so obsessed about while pretending to care about Egypt, if you cared about Egypt you would not be parroting Erdogan's nonsense and know better) have proven to be very reliable allies of Egypt and helped Egypt at its most darkest period. When nobody else wanted to do it. Not even the US. At a big risk moreover. But once again, forget the regimes in power. It's the people that matter.

Here is more fantasy talk from foreigners that are obsessed about Arabs as you are. In this case an Azeri.

I don't know where you have been taught history but Yemenis kicked out Ottomans with ease several times and Ottoman presence in Yemen was always minimal as in all of Arabia. Most of the Ottomans were fellow Arabs too. So it was an Arab-Arab conflict. With the exception of one Arab party (Ottomans) fighting on behalf of an Arabized Sultan in Istanbul.

In Turkey they have songs about Yemen and their defeat there. You must be out of your mind to think that Yemenis wish to be Turkish vassals (LOL). They don't want to be vassals for anyone and never have been. Yemen is the Afghanistan of the Middle East/West Asia. History is the witness of this. Only fellow Arabs have ever managed to control Yemen fully.

Yemen is our backyard and everything that I wrote about Egypt also goes for Yemen. You are incredibly deluded to think that you will have any significant presence in Yemen. Just laughable.

As for being untouchable, are you really this dumb to believe that 80 million Turkey with an economy not even twice as big as 10 million UAE and with a population and landmass 5-10 times smaller than that of the Arab world, 50 times smaller resources, potential etc. will be able to dictate/rule events in the Arab world, and Yemen of all countries? Who feeds you this nonsense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen_Eyalet

As for your beloved tiny Qatar, it was under Ottoman influence for some 20 years before Ottomans were kicked out by the Al-Thanis in 1893.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Al_Wajbah

I really hope for the future of Turkey that just a tiny percentage of Turks (forgetting that you are an Azeri and not a Turk) have such delusions like you and want to pursue such policies because it will backfire tremendously for Turkey. Arabs (vast majority) don't look at Turkey as an enemy (just like most Turks don't look at the Arab world as an enemy) but if too many delusional ignorants like you reach power, those relations can quickly sour and I know which party will be the strongest. The Arab party.

I have nothing against Turks (unless they are anti-Arab) or Turkey (unless a Turkish regime is pursuing anti-Arab/hostile policies) in case you begin to cry here. However I have never seen the few Arab users here bark against Turkey in the same fashion as I have seen 3-4 Turkish trolls do (tiny element in a large sea of mostly sane users by large from what I have seen at least) and that won't be tolerated by any Arab, even the few of us remaining on PDF.

Developed Egypt suits the needs of Israel as long as it's friendly

I wish that the same logic was applied for the West Bank and Gaza in particular.

@Falcon29

I agree. There should've been more diplomacy from both sides. I think that what was being perceived by Sisi and many, many Egyptians was a disturbing trend by Morsi. It wasn't the direction that we wanted to see the country go into and when I say "we", yes, I'm speaking for all Egyptians and maybe that's not the accurate thing to do since the MB had -- and still does -- support from a certain percentage of Egyptians who might've been happy with that trend. Offering wide open arms to Hamas, aligning policies and ideologies with Iran and worst of all, declaring complete authority to himself after we just tossed the guy who did that for 30+ years and was the whole purpose of the revolution.

So seeing Morsi dethroned wasn't exactly a bad thing to be perfectly open and honest. Yes, it was a huge blow to a brand newly born democracy that we had no idea what to expect from it, and maybe it needed to be given a chance? But seeing the country fall into the abyss of a failed state was hardly worth 1 minute of visiting that sinkhole as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the kicker: Sisi has 4 more years of presidency allowed and the Parliament is pushing to extend the presidential terms to 6 years which I'm actually ok with since Egypt at the moment is in a MASSIVE growing stage that needs more consistency with the duties of the presidency that I wouldn't be bothered by that, and I might even encourage it. HOWEVER, whether it stays 4 years or becomes 6 years, what happens after that will be imperative to how I would support Sisi. When the term ends and he moves aside for the next president as he should, I'll be perfectly happy. If he created any type of shenanigan from here on, with the support of the parliament to find a way to stay in as president beyond his final term, that will result in my complete withdrawal of support for him. 100%. I've been ok with the coup, with him getting elected the first and this 2nd time but that's it! Now we need to see democracy work as it should because the country is and will be in an excellent state and there will not be any need for him to stay on. So that will be my view when the time comes and I hope he mans up and does the right thing. If not, I will hold him accountable for that and will never support him after.



1) What do you mean by "they want more Israeli money in Egypt"? Where did we get any Israeli money? Please explain that.
2) Why would Israel have an issue with Egypt becoming developed? @500 & @DavidSling , is this the attitude of the Israeli government towards Egypt? They might not want to see us get nuclear weapons, lol, but why would they care if we develop a lot more than we already have? That would actually be in their interest. Please tell me why you think that.
3) So you think the Gulf countries will not support us as we become more developed? Are you aware of the Suez Economic Zone project development with Saudiya and the UAE and Bahrain (I believe)? Are you aware of the bridge that is being planned from Sinai trough Tiran and Sanafir to Saudiya to help with the pilgrimage and increase the brotherly bond between the two countries that has been there since the beginning of time? Egypt & Saudiya have been brotherly nations for a very long time an we have supported each other through the thick and thin.

The interesting thing is how many don't realize that our relationship with Saudiya is so far above and beyond the few billions of $ they gave us when our country was on the brink of collapse. And they also fail to see how Saudiya does these things with not just Egypt, but with many other countries because that's the way they are and it's the Muslim thing to do. Their first reaction is always "bribery! Slave purchase!" etc. It seems the sexy thing is the negative viewpoint and all else gets ignored. It's really too bad, but it's well beyond anything of the sort.



Yemen? Really? Why would you ever think Turkey will (not only be interested but even have the capability) but will actually get involved in Yemen to keep Saudiya and the UAE and the coalition out of any influence of Yemen? This is really extraordinary but honestly, I'm not surprised considering Turkish nationalism tends to get the better of you fellas' judgement, TBH. @Saif al-Arab , what do you think of this viewpoint, my bro?



BTW, isn't that exactly what Sultan Erdogan is doing to remain in power?

Could not have written it better bro. As usual, hats off.

Sorry for "spoiling" the party a bit but our Azeri friend (I really have nothing personal against him or Azeris for that matter) but when somebody is trolling and writing outright childish, ignorant and idiotic threats, you sometimes have to take your gloves off. I guess the increasing trolling from certain foreigners on this otherwise peaceful Arab section, is getting too me at times. Last refugee where this lot were few in numbers. Alas. Time to confront the nonsense head on.

 

[Gomig-21]

Could not have written it better bro. As usual, hats off.

Sorry for "spoiling" the party a bit but our Azeri friend (I really have nothing personal against him or Azeris for that matter) but when somebody is trolling and writing outright childish, ignorant and idiotic threats, you sometimes have to take your gloves off. I guess the increasing trolling from certain foreigners on this otherwise peaceful Arab section, is getting too me at times. Last refugee where this lot were few in numbers. Alas. Time to confront the nonsense head on.

Hat's off to you, ma man. This is why I tagged you!

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Hat's off to you, ma man. This is why I tagged you!

I have always wondered about the significant number of supposedly fellow Muslims who have some kind of unhealthy obsession about Arabs despite those Arabs influencing them more than any other people by large.

Historically (all holy sites located in Arab lands, 99% of all religious personalities Arab in origin, vast majority of Islamic scholars, scientists etc. being Arab historically, Arabic language being the lingua franca of Islam and the wider Muslim world - historically at least etc.) and even to this day (by far the most numerous Muslim ethnic group, largest economies by far, controlling the by far largest amount of landmass, resources, largest potential etc.) Arabs are the top dogs so to speak (stating such facts is a crime for those Arab obsessed people), nevertheless, I have never seen anything remotely similar.

You have Western and Jamaican converts (just two examples), Indonesians in Western Papua, Azeris, Iranians, Turks, Sub-Saharan Africans, Horners, Muslims in the Balkan, Central Asia, South Asia, South East Asia, WEST etc. and most of them have strong opinions about Arab regimes, policies, events in the Arab world but much less so when it comes to other Muslim ethnic groups. It is as if Arabs were the only Muslims in the world.

Honestly speaking, I am quite curious to learn why that is the case (although I have my theories) but this obsession from the same lot is manifested on PDF on a weekly basis and our Azeri friend is just one such example.

It's quite incredible when you think about.

Any thoughts about this "controversial topic" brother?

 

[Kamil_baku]

I agree. There should've been more diplomacy from both sides. I think that what was being perceived by Sisi and many, many Egyptians was a disturbing trend by Morsi. It wasn't the direction that we wanted to see the country go into and when I say "we", yes, I'm speaking for all Egyptians and maybe that's not the accurate thing to do since the MB had -- and still does -- support from a certain percentage of Egyptians who might've been happy with that trend. Offering wide open arms to Hamas, aligning policies and ideologies with Iran and worst of all, declaring complete authority to himself after we just tossed the guy who did that for 30+ years and was the whole purpose of the revolution.

So seeing Morsi dethroned wasn't exactly a bad thing to be perfectly open and honest. Yes, it was a huge blow to a brand newly born democracy that we had no idea what to expect from it, and maybe it needed to be given a chance? But seeing the country fall into the abyss of a failed state was hardly worth 1 minute of visiting that sinkhole as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the kicker: Sisi has 4 more years of presidency allowed and the Parliament is pushing to extend the presidential terms to 6 years which I'm actually ok with since Egypt at the moment is in a MASSIVE growing stage that needs more consistency with the duties of the presidency that I wouldn't be bothered by that, and I might even encourage it. HOWEVER, whether it stays 4 years or becomes 6 years, what happens after that will be imperative to how I would support Sisi. When the term ends and he moves aside for the next president as he should, I'll be perfectly happy. If he created any type of shenanigan from here on, with the support of the parliament to find a way to stay in as president beyond his final term, that will result in my complete withdrawal of support for him. 100%. I've been ok with the coup, with him getting elected the first and this 2nd time but that's it! Now we need to see democracy work as it should because the country is and will be in an excellent state and there will not be any need for him to stay on. So that will be my view when the time comes and I hope he mans up and does the right thing. If not, I will hold him accountable for that and will never support him after.



1) What do you mean by "they want more Israeli money in Egypt"? Where did we get any Israeli money? Please explain that.
2) Why would Israel have an issue with Egypt becoming developed? @500 & @DavidSling , is this the attitude of the Israeli government towards Egypt? They might not want to see us get nuclear weapons, lol, but why would they care if we develop a lot more than we already have? That would actually be in their interest. Please tell me why you think that.
3) So you think the Gulf countries will not support us as we become more developed? Are you aware of the Suez Economic Zone project development with Saudiya and the UAE and Bahrain (I believe)? Are you aware of the bridge that is being planned from Sinai trough Tiran and Sanafir to Saudiya to help with the pilgrimage and increase the brotherly bond between the two countries that has been there since the beginning of time? Egypt & Saudiya have been brotherly nations for a very long time an we have supported each other through the thick and thin.

The interesting thing is how many don't realize that our relationship with Saudiya is so far above and beyond the few billions of $ they gave us when our country was on the brink of collapse. And they also fail to see how Saudiya does these things with not just Egypt, but with many other countries because that's the way they are and it's the Muslim thing to do. Their first reaction is always "bribery! Slave purchase!" etc. It seems the sexy thing is the negative viewpoint and all else gets ignored. It's really too bad, but it's well beyond anything of the sort.



Yemen? Really? Why would you ever think Turkey will (not only be interested but even have the capability) but will actually get involved in Yemen to keep Saudiya and the UAE and the coalition out of any influence of Yemen? This is really extraordinary but honestly, I'm not surprised considering Turkish nationalism tends to get the better of you fellas' judgement, TBH. @Saif al-Arab , what do you think of this viewpoint, my bro?



BTW, isn't that exactly what Sultan Erdogan is doing to remain in power?

Actually Turkish people choose Erdogan with the same goal too. They saw that he developed the ecovomy 4 time but later many things such as coup, protests, prosecution, SYrian issue, which people hope to believe stopped the economy. But, they all wanted to give him last chance and judge based on that.. I mean i understand you about Sisi, and i basically hope and believe him.. as he is succesful,as long as he brings those GUlf money in, which EGypt needs now..

Lets be honest, Why EGypt doesnt get BVR missile for f16 or any AESa radar upgrade? I am not saying ISrael openly show it, but every country take their security measures as they dont know what might come in 10 years lets say... You wouldnt probably close doors to Palestinians if you had super economy, because power brings more eager to power..