Egypt's hopes betrayed by Morsi

[Developereo]

Egypt's vote wasn't for an official or law but for a framework of governance. You need a lot more than a majority of the people who turn out to legitimize that sort of thing. Egyptians voted against the system as much by staying away as those who did turn up to vote - and it's a lot harder to fake the turnout than it is the poll itself.

I accept that the passing mark should be higher for constitutional issues, but I won't accept "staying away" as an excuse.

Democracy comes with responsibilities and voting is one of those duties. People who throw a tantrum and boycott the democratic process have no right to complain.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Some Egyptians are demanding a bit "too much too soon"

it is a political process

but the government in charge needs to be quick to react to the aspirations of the masses; there has to be a room for compromise

it is good that Muslim Brotherhood reserve seats for minority groups, since there's a lot of debate nowadays on the rights of non-Muslim community

Egypt isn't Libya or Syria though. They were spared a devastating civil war, and the need for weapons and anti-aircraft equipments, etc. (Alhamdulillah)

 

[Solomon2]

I accept that the passing mark should be higher for constitutional issues, but I won't accept "staying away" as an excuse.Democracy comes with responsibilities and voting is one of those duties. People who throw a tantrum and boycott the democratic process have no right to complain.

Ordinarily I would agree with you but Egypt is a country with a long history of officials falsifying (more accurately, manufacturing in advance) the results of its own polls. Hence, voting with one's feet is an important mode of democratic expression.

I didn't want it to be this way; I urged the democrats to organize their own polling system rather than stick to officialdom but apparently Egyptians don't desire a fully revolutionary break from continuity. This characteristic - in my eyes a weakness, but not theirs - of Egyptians was noted and exploited in ancient times: whoever conquered Egypt took care to change slowly, maintaining many of the same structures and institutions. When the Roman Emperor Augustus defeated Cleopatra he assumed the then 4,000 year-old throne of the pharaohs himself, then delegated authority to a Roman governor. The Egyptians accepted this without a peep.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

The fact I hate to reveal like Egyptians here is that the majority of Egyptians are either illiterate or poorly educated, so they get weakened when someone puts himself as the representative of Islam as if the other candidates are Kaffirs. MB are detested for educated people because they know that they are hypocrite, ungrateful and backstabbers.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

You can take the man out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the man.

Man, plz plz use your brain, you can't compare the Egyptians during Mubarak era and Saudis nowadays?! it's a blasphemy man. Egyptians were literally treated like slaves, lining up for a loaf of bread, majority living in extreme poverty, poor education, poor medical treatment, and bad infrastructure and above and up all of this dictatorship, brutality and mistreatment. While in KSA it's people choice, a culture and commitment to Islam (including misinterpretation of Islam), you are mistaken if you think that Saudi regime is the one who oppose women driving and other social issues but it's actually the people. Even Al Saud themselves can't make such decisions without Sheiks permission. You have no idea of the huge resistance Saudi regime have been countering to move forward with KSA into modernization, for instance, when Saudi regime set up a TV broadcasting tower and permitted TVs in Ryhadh, Sheiks started rising up against the regime accusing them of plotting to Westernize the country and ruining their youths with "corrupt" western life style, although the TV used only to broadcast Quraan and NEWS, as a result a large group of people gathered around the TV tower to get it down, among them was King Faisal's cousin who was shot by police guarding the tower when they attacked them, then his son asked the king for revenge from the policemen and the king refused his grand cousin request and eventually as an indirect result the king Faisal was assassinated by him. The same resistance they got when they allowed girls into schools. Do you see now how shallow you used to be? that's why I always say Egyptians, Iranians and South Asian people are in general the most "non so bright" people I have ever dealt with so far in real life or via internet.

As for personal experience, I have a story, a creepy one happened with me about four or five years ago, while I was reading through a Miitary Arab forum, one of the Egyptian forumers revealed another Egyptian forumer identity (name and place) from facebook, and it was a joke. It turned out that the second guy is a chief in Mukhabrat (intelligence) and was pissed off from the joke, he threatened the guy with (literally) "I will throw you beyond the sun you animal", afterthen, the first guy was disappeared... I freaked out and tried contact the moderation of the forum regarding this poor guy but even my outbox and inbox messages were disappeared as well as the whole thread that guy was threatened in, I was really so touched by this. After this incident by a year or two, the legend Khalid Saed was brutally tortured and killed in the street, and I did all of my best dedicating most of my time on Youtube, Facebook, and forums supporting his cause as well as the Egyptian revolution, because I witnessed how brutal and corrupt this regime was.

 

[Arzamas 16]

the problem is secularist educated young class of Cairo and 1-2 other major cities are anti Morsi! I have seen many families where parents are Morsi supporter but their college going daughter is anti Morsi... This is the reason a lot Morsi haters are lurking around .... morsi is still loved by many on ground, he is still more popular than El baradei!

An Islamist doesn't like education!!! Surprise

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Indeed; Emperyalists, Israel, domestic collaborators hope betrayed by morsi, not Egypians hope.

we are used to such dirty plot in 1998 againist Refah Party and 2004-2011 againist AKP party in Turkey, and in 1950 againist government of Muhammad Mossadek in Iran.

This is psychological warfare witth multiple legs aganist Muslim Brotherhood.. Media companies with hired colomnists, big financial banks and business companies, Judicial system, army and some provocative groups........

is tehere any methods more fair and suitable than election and referandum for legislation...Mr. Morsi didnot come to power by military coup...eventoguh he was elecected by majority of Egyptians and has right of legislative he suggest referendum to regulate some new laws..

but some provacative groups and domestic collaborators as their emperyalist and Israeli masters directed them, try to push Egypt into chaos and anarchy in order to create some pretexts for military coup againist Morsi..

Emperyalists realize very well that there is left only one way to get rid of Egypt from a real national and public government...That is a new military coup.... Because high commander staff of Egyptian army is still a remnant of dictator Mobarak and has weak national sense..if they could, they still keen and ready to lick ısrael and US daipers as they did in past. .

in short, the real story is that. the rest are bla bla..

I was trying to believe this but I couldn't, MB are a bunch of lying liars and no I didn't get this from state media but rather from their own mouths and acts which I have been observing for too long, you have no idea how hypocrite and backstabbers those people are.

 

[agentny17]

Man, plz plz use your brain, you can't compare the Egyptians during Mubarak era and Saudis nowadays?! it's a blasphemy man. Egyptians were literally treated like slaves, lining up for a loaf of bread, majority living in extreme poverty, poor education, poor medical treatment, and bad infrastructure and above and up all of this dictatorship, brutality and mistreatment. While in KSA it's people choice, a culture and commitment to Islam (including misinterpretation of Islam), you are mistaken if you think that Saudi regime is the one who oppose women driving and other social issues but it's actually the people. Even Al Saud themselves can't make such decisions without Sheiks permission. You have no idea of the huge resistance Saudi regime have been countering to move forward with KSA into modernization, for instance, when Saudi regime set up a TV broadcasting tower and permitted TVs in Ryhadh, Sheiks started rising up against the regime accusing them of plotting to Westernize the country and ruining their youths with "corrupt" western life style, although the TV used only to broadcast Quraan and NEWS, as a result a large group of people gathered around the TV tower to get it down, among them was King Faisal's cousin who was shot by police guarding the tower when they attacked them, then his son asked the king for revenge from the policemen and the king refused his grand cousin request and eventually as an indirect result the king Faisal was assassinated by him. The same resistance they got when they allowed girls into schools. Do you see now how shallow you used to be? that's why I always say Egyptians, Iranians and South Asian people are in general the most "non so bright" people I have ever dealt with so far in real life or via internet.

As for personal experience, I have a story, a creepy one happened with me about four or five years ago, while I was reading through a Miitary Arab forum, one of the Egyptian forumers revealed another Egyptian forumer identity (name and place) from facebook, and it was a joke. It turned out that the second guy is a chief in Mukhabrat (intelligence) and was pissed off from the joke, he threatened the guy with (literally) "I will throw you beyond the sun you animal", afterthen, the first guy was disappeared... I freaked out and tried contact the moderation of the forum regarding this poor guy but even my outbox and inbox messages were disappeared as well as the whole thread that guy was threatened in, I was really so touched by this. After this incident by a year or two, the legend Khalid Saed was brutally tortured and killed in the street, and I did all of my best dedicating most of my time on Youtube, Facebook, and forums supporting his cause as well as the Egyptian revolution, because I witnessed how brutal and corrupt this regime was.

I don't remember comparing Egypt with Saudi Arabia to be honest with you. I also know for a fact that most members of Saudi Arabia royal family are very liberal and open minded. If it was up to them, they would change a lot of thing about freedom, human rights and women rights in Saudi Arabia. The next generation in Saudi Arabia will be able to make a lot of changes thu. Sending students to different countries will do magic for Saudi Arabia.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I don't remember comparing Egypt with Saudi Arabia to be honest with you. I also know for a fact that most members of Saudi Arabia royal family are very liberal and open minded. If it was up to them, they would change a lot of thing about freedom, human rights and women rights in Saudi Arabia. The next generation in Saudi Arabia will be able to make a lot of changes thu. Sending students to different countries will do magic for Saudi Arabia.

Plz don't get it wrong, but inferiority complex is more dangerous than fundamentalism and backwardness, copying Western experience on a totally different culture is a disastrous mistake. Why don't we go through our own path to glory and freedom based on our great culture and history? We are able to make our own version of justice and freedom based on our great culture and Islam. Just read about life style of Muslims during Ummayad and Rashidon eras especially Omar Bin Abd Al Aziz.

 

[kobiraaz]

An Islamist doesn't like education!!! Surprise

I should have made it clear. By Educated meant education of western ideologies and life style of western societies! I am myself a doctor, yeah i don't like education. Right!

 

[Solomon2]

JEFFREY GOLDBERG - Jeffrey Goldberg is a national correspondent for The Atlantic and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting. Author of the book Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror, Goldberg also writes the magazine's advice column.

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Egyptian President Calls Jews 'Sons of Apes and Pigs'; World Yawns

1 JAN 14 2013, 11:02 AM ET

Earlier this month, the Middle East Media Research Institute posted video taken in 2010 of Egypt's current president, Mohamed Morsi, calling Jews the "descendants of apes and pigs."

The Jerusalem Post provided this summary of his remarks:

"... Morsi denounced thePalestinian Authority as a creation of "the Zionist and American enemies for the sole purpose of opposing the will of the Palestinian people." Therefore, he stressed, "No reasonable person can expect any progress on this track."

"Either [you accept] the Zionists and everything they want, or else it is war," Morsi said, "This is what these occupiers of the land of Palestine know - these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs." (You can watch Morsi deliver these remarks here.)​

Richard Behar, at Forbes, watched what happened once these atrocious remarks were made public:

I studied the Pigs-and-Apes story's journey and trajectory through America over the past week with Sue Radlauer, the Director of Research Services here at Forbes. We gave it seven days to see if any of the so-called "mainstream media" -- a pejorative phrase that too-often obscures more than it reveals -- bestowed the hate speech even a few sentences of back-page ink. Nothing.

Of course, the demonization of Jews is commonplace and de rigueur in the Arab media (although most Americans wouldn't know that because they are not being made aware of it). But what makes this omission in Big Media especially egregious is that Morsi -- sometimes spelled Morsy or Mursi -- went even further than genetically pairing Jews with lower beasts. As you can see and hear for yourself in the Morsi Tapes, he called for an end to any and all negotiations for a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians - droning on that all the land belongs to the latter. He called for a boycott of American goods because of its support for Israel. (Of course, he didn't bother mentioning that American taxpayers have provided nearly $70 billion of aid to Egypt, since it made peace with Israel in 1979, and the spigot continues for now.) He even went so far as to label the Palestinian Authority an entity "created by the Zionist and American enemies for the sole purpose of opposing the will of the Palestinian people and its interests."​

Egypt is the largest Arab country. Morsi is its president. It seems noteworthy that the president of Egypt recently deployed a traditional Islamist, anti-Semitic formulation to describe Jews. Why, then, hasn't it been noted more widely? One possibility is, to borrow a phrase, the soft bigotry of low expectations. Another: Anti-Semites have done such a thorough job of convincing the media that anti-Semitism doesn't exist that when it does pop up it causes a paralyzing form of cognitive dissonance. I'm open to other explanations, so send them my way.

 

[Cloakedvessel]

Solomon2, this column is a nice supplement to the one you're citing:

Laughing off jew-hatred
Our leaders ignore the obvious

With the vast publicity surrounding Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi’s 2010 description of Jews as “the descendants of apes and pigs,” have the left, academia and the human-rights community finally found a case of Muslim Jew-hatred too extreme to ignore?

Perhaps Morsi’s speech — urging his countrymen to “nurse our children and our grandchildren on hatred” for Jews and Zionists — has sounded an alarm for those in the Obama administration who’ve so often argued that Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood are our friends.

Well, no. Obama spokesman Jay Carney condemned Morsi’s bigoted “language” — but reaffirmed official enthusiasm for the Egyptian president and his pro-peace role. Meanwhile, The New York Times wondered — without a shred of evidence — if Morsi really believed what he’d said. Against all odds, its editorialists suggested that becoming president might have made him “think differently about the need to respect” all people.

Yeah, he’s a new man. Right. The remarks must have been, you know, taken out of context.

Sorry: A virulent, hateful and dangerous anti-Semitism runs not just through Morsi the man but through much of the Muslim world.

Consider:

* A few years back, Sheik Tantawi — then possibly the most influential religious leader in Sunni Islam and honored in many Western circles as a moderate — also denounced the Jews as “the enemies of Allah, the descendants of apes and pigs.” (He’s an expert of sorts; his doctoral dissertation was devoted to identifying the unflattering traits of Jews.)

* The Hamas charter incorporates verbatim sections from Hitler’s old favorite, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a forgery produced in late 1800s by the Czarist secret police.

* Mahmoud Abbas, the “moderate” Palestinian Authority leader, once penned a thesis arguing that Jews — for political purposes — deliberately inflated the Holocaust death toll from 1 million to 6 million.

* When Malaysia’s former prime minister, Mohammad Mahathir, denounced Jews in vile terms at a conference of top world Muslim leaders, he got a standing ovation and not one word of protest.

* Iran hosts an annual Holocaust-denial conference.

* And Saudi-sponsored educational materials loaded with Jew-hatred are distributed worldwide, including at some schools and mosques in the United States, Britain and other Western countries.

Pew Foundation polls have shown that — when asked whether they had a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of Jews — 99 percent of Jordanians and Lebanese said very unfavorable. In Morocco, 88 percent said either very or somewhat unfavorable; in Pakistan 74 percent, Indonesia: 76 percent.

One big Western blind spot concerns where this bigotry comes from. It didn’t start with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The “pigs and apes” language comes from (an arguably misinterpreted story in) the Koran. Militants use another story from classical Islamic sources— about Mohammed presiding over the beheading and mass murder of the Banu Qurayza Jews — to endorse their agenda.

But religious books of all faiths have controversial passages that modern and fair people must deal with. Islam need not support antiSemitism. Brave leaders like Khaleel Mohamed, Tarek Fatah, Bassam Tibi, Irshad Manji and others have sought to address the problem.

But most of the Muslim community, even leaders who should know better, have been collaborators. And many non-bigots never speak out because it would create problems with their more bigoted peers.

Morsi’s comments should not surprise. Several books have documented the deep roots of Jew-hatred in the Muslim Brotherhood. My own recent book, “The Sons of Pigs and Apes,” argues that there’s been a conspiracy of silence. The experts we count on — human rights groups, Middle East studies profs, social scientists, even governments — have been reluctant to criticize Muslims because the West is trying so hard to get along and to broker an elusive Arab-Israeli peace deal.

Plus, it’s not nice to identify flaws in any religion. You could get labeled an Islamophobe.

But identifying bigotry in the Muslim world doesn’t make you a bigot. It make one a realist.

It’s time for the ostriches to pull their heads out from under the sand.

Neil J. Kressel’s ‘The Sons of Pigs and Apes’: Muslim Anti-Semitism and the Conspiracy of Silence,” was published in November.

Laughing off jew-hatred - NYPOST.com

 

[anonymus]

Solomon2, this column is a nice supplement to the one you're citing:

Laughing off jew-hatred
Our leaders ignore the obvious

With the vast publicity surrounding Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi’s 2010 description of Jews as “the descendants of apes and pigs,” have the left, academia and the human-rights community finally found a case of Muslim Jew-hatred too extreme to ignore?

Perhaps Morsi’s speech — urging his countrymen to “nurse our children and our grandchildren on hatred” for Jews and Zionists — has sounded an alarm for those in the Obama administration who’ve so often argued that Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood are our friends.

Well, no. Obama spokesman Jay Carney condemned Morsi’s bigoted “language” — but reaffirmed official enthusiasm for the Egyptian president and his pro-peace role. Meanwhile, The New York Times wondered — without a shred of evidence — if Morsi really believed what he’d said. Against all odds, its editorialists suggested that becoming president might have made him “think differently about the need to respect” all people.

Yeah, he’s a new man. Right. The remarks must have been, you know, taken out of context.

Sorry: A virulent, hateful and dangerous anti-Semitism runs not just through Morsi the man but through much of the Muslim world.

Consider:

* A few years back, Sheik Tantawi — then possibly the most influential religious leader in Sunni Islam and honored in many Western circles as a moderate — also denounced the Jews as “the enemies of Allah, the descendants of apes and pigs.” (He’s an expert of sorts; his doctoral dissertation was devoted to identifying the unflattering traits of Jews.)

* The Hamas charter incorporates verbatim sections from Hitler’s old favorite, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a forgery produced in late 1800s by the Czarist secret police.

* Mahmoud Abbas, the “moderate” Palestinian Authority leader, once penned a thesis arguing that Jews — for political purposes — deliberately inflated the Holocaust death toll from 1 million to 6 million.

* When Malaysia’s former prime minister, Mohammad Mahathir, denounced Jews in vile terms at a conference of top world Muslim leaders, he got a standing ovation and not one word of protest.

* Iran hosts an annual Holocaust-denial conference.

* And Saudi-sponsored educational materials loaded with Jew-hatred are distributed worldwide, including at some schools and mosques in the United States, Britain and other Western countries.

Pew Foundation polls have shown that — when asked whether they had a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of Jews — 99 percent of Jordanians and Lebanese said very unfavorable. In Morocco, 88 percent said either very or somewhat unfavorable; in Pakistan 74 percent, Indonesia: 76 percent.

One big Western blind spot concerns where this bigotry comes from. It didn’t start with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

The “pigs and apes” language comes from (an arguably misinterpreted story in) the Koran. Militants use another story from classical Islamic sources— about Mohammed presiding over the beheading and mass murder of the Banu Qurayza Jews — to endorse their agenda.

But religious books of all faiths have controversial passages that modern and fair people must deal with. Islam need not support antiSemitism. Brave leaders like Khaleel Mohamed, Tarek Fatah, Bassam Tibi, Irshad Manji and others have sought to address the problem.

But most of the Muslim community, even leaders who should know better, have been collaborators. And many non-bigots never speak out because it would create problems with their more bigoted peers.

Morsi’s comments should not surprise. Several books have documented the deep roots of Jew-hatred in the Muslim Brotherhood. My own recent book, “The Sons of Pigs and Apes,” argues that there’s been a conspiracy of silence. The experts we count on — human rights groups, Middle East studies profs, social scientists, even governments — have been reluctant to criticize Muslims because the West is trying so hard to get along and to broker an elusive Arab-Israeli peace deal.

Plus, it’s not nice to identify flaws in any religion. You could get labeled an Islamophobe.

But identifying bigotry in the Muslim world doesn’t make you a bigot. It make one a realist.

It’s time for the ostriches to pull their heads out from under the sand.

Neil J. Kressel’s ‘The Sons of Pigs and Apes’: Muslim Anti-Semitism and the Conspiracy of Silence,” was published in November.

Laughing off jew-hatred - NYPOST.com

Is Nytimes different from Nypost?

times seems to be pretty antisemitic to me.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

There's a difference between having hostile feelings towards Israel versus hatred of Jews. Arabs are Semites too by the way, so what nonsensical twisting of words.

Palestine denial is as bad if not worse than holocaust denial

 

[MilSpec]

There's a difference between having hostile feelings towards Israel versus hatred of Jews. Arabs are Semites too by the way, so what nonsensical twisting of words.

Palestine denial is as bad if not worse than holocaust denial

I have often wondered what did egypt do when it controlled Gaza, and jordan when it controlled west bank??