Egyptian National and Strategic Development Projects: News and Updates

[Gomig-21]

On the contrary my friend, I had a Libyan friend here who totally adored Egypt and visited Cairo, Alexandria and Sharm El-Sheikh quite a few times. She always brought up Adel Imam punchlines every time we spoke. I also had some Indian friends who held a great reverence to Egyptian heritage and culture. Not to mention the widening eyes and gasping mouths of every American fellow once they know I'm from Egypt.

You want to hear something interesting? Since I've been here for close to 32 years, I've seen it all, and the major thing I noticed is that the reaction you get from Americans is exactly what I got for many years. The minute they would hear me say "I'm from Egypt," their faces would light up "oh my God I love Egypt I want to visit the Pyramids" lol etc. the usual. Then came 911 (and this has nothing to do with the educated or the ignorant as in the entire scope of class), the sentiment did a 180 degree turn. Now the reaction became "Oh....interesting." This lasted for about 5 or so years and it has since slowly reverted almost back to the original, happy sentiment, but not like it was. There is a DEFINITE change in reaction and especially among people who are connected with world events. Most of the younger, millennials don't really have a clue and are either twigged to the extreme or just don't know anything and by that effect, are not exactly open to being freindly.

These hateful sentiments we see from some people seem to be concentrated mainly in the Maghreb region, Especially Algerians. I have no idea why that's the case.

They dislike us because of several reasons but what I notice most is that much of it has to do with the political stances of their respective country vs Egypt. Nothing is more evident in support of that theory than with the Turks.

I think that Moroccan guy is somehow an ignorant.. because most North Africans I met here and in Europe love Egypt.. but I am talking about educated people, who have opinions based on knowledge.. not just anyone who might not even be able to find Egypt on a map.. Every true Arab is proud of Egypt's achievements..

And most of the educated people are also just more tactful and respectful with their reactions and sentiments. They know how to hide it better but it's just as prevalent, if not more because there is also the Israel/Jew factor. If they don't show the signs immediately, they're usually cautious about any sincere, friendly reaction. I've seen it change for 3-1/2 decades and the way it flips and flops is fascinating.

When I first came to the US and went to college, I was the only Egyptian student is a school body of about 30,000 (if I recall correctly) and it was a specialized college so the body was not huge, but the interesting part was that the people I made friends with more than any others were the Israelis (believe it or not) and Americans from the south! Those two I got along with so well we became best of friends and even moved in together until we went our separate ways. This was back in 1985. Things have considerably changed by today's standards.

I dont think the opinion of Morrocans or Algerians matter as they are far away and have zero influence over the events in the region.

I completely agree, especially Algerians. I say the majority of them despise us and good for them. Toz fehum simple as that.

Sisi does not have about what Arabs thinks and his orientation towards Africa is a smart decision , no one there will attack you for your Relations with Israel or your movies and you know all the bullshit that some worthless Arabs bark about against Egypt.

The move with Eritrea is fantastic and even better is the one with Tanzania! Talk about coming in from the backdoor, Ethiopia! And I was born in Ethiopia so I have a certain level of endearment for that country.

Sad to say this but significant number of Arabs hate Egyptians more than Jews , its the truth especially clowns of Algeria. The Morrocans mind their own business and are busy building their country.

I completely agree. This is actually quite obvious. Some of my best friends are Jews and they are outstanding people. Heck I have friends who are Egyptian Jews who's parents have been here since 1958. I get along with every single Israeli I've met and even do business with them and they are very trustworthy. The only time I had an issue was when I got denied the contract to build a house for an Israeli woman who was nervous because I was Egyptian, and she though I would have an issue with her. Of course that couldn't be further from the truth as the structural engineer I've worked with for 10 years prior to that is Israeli LOL. Other than that, they show us much more respect than the overwhelming majority of these other Arabs. I have to say, my Saudi friends are 100% on the up and up and what I see is actually a worst sentiment from my Egyptian friends towards Saudis than the other way around. It's too bad and it saddens me, actually. I suppose different people will have different experiences.

At the Masjid, there is a larger percentage of Egyptians than any other nationality. The imam and the caretaker are both Egyptians and even the backup imam is as well. It's tough getting out of there after salaat el jumaa as they love to yack it up! lol

Regardless of what they feel, Algeria has no influence in the middle east and their opinion does not matter.

I've been telling that to our resident Egyptian hater Ceylal for months now.

And Egypt Enjoyed/ and still Enjoy a foreign financial support that others will never have and never had... keep that in mind...

That, my friend, has A LOT to do with the problem as per example you bringing it up. This is a FACT and the way I look at it is hey, Egypt was smart to make peace and get financial aid in return as well as build a very strong and unbreakable friendship with the powerful and wealthy Arabs who have been nothing but supportive of our country since forever. These are smart and strategic and genuine moves. I say tough crap to those who try to hold it against us.

It's good to point weakness/problems on others, it could bring an healthy point of view...Balance is needed...

Completely agree.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Gomig-21

To be honest guys, we cannot generalize which Arab group likes or dislikes Arab group x or y. There are certain tendencies due to political disagreements, blind regime following, a football match (WTF, really guys?!), certain historical circumstances that a certain generation remember or have blown out of proportion but to be honest I don't honestly believe that any Arab national hates another Arab national. Here I am talking about the majority. When it comes to vocal minorities (often the minority within the minority) the story is often different but this artificial hatred is based on ignorance by large if not always. That's my experience.

I still remember the situation 4-5 years ago when Iraqi Shia Arabs from across the border tended to blame KSA and other Arab states (GCC, Jordan and sometimes even Egypt) for terrorism (ordinary people even) while today due to the warming political ties and the ground realities by large proving them wrong, it is a TOTALLY different situation. Now when I take a look at Arab forums, social media, Youtube comments, all I almost see (outside of the odd troll or hateful creature) are posts that rightly point out all the things that we have in common (more than the opposite) and the need for cooperation on all fronts (beneficial) for the sake of both parties and the region/Arab World.

4-5 years ago such people were in the minority. It's just shows how artificial this so-called hatred is between certain Arab groups.

From personal behavior, I can mention many Arabs from Arab countries that have historically (modern-era of course only) or in recent times had certain disagreements with KSA (say Algeria, Iraq, Qatar and Sudan) been some of the most friendly people towards KSA and Saudi Arabians while I have also met incredibly ignorant and biased Arabs from very close (politically) Arab countries. There is no "standard" formula here when we are talking about almost 500 million people. I mean we have internal rivalries within each and every single Arab country (small and big) so it is too much to expect that every human, just because we share ethnicity, culture (larger cultural sphere), religion, language, history and much else in common, will have identical views and opinions. It's a complicated world.

The only thing that matters is that the decision makers, the vast majority of the people (masses) and the elite knows about the ground realities - namely a common destiny and the fact that brotherly and sisterly cooperation (despite certain disagreements, small as big, between the modern-day nation states of today) is preferable to hostility. This is relevant, in particular for civil war torn Arab countries (Syria, Libya Yemen and to a smaller extent Iraq) when it comes to domestic policies.

@As for the topic at hand, fantastic to see much of the progress occurring in Egypt. Very encouraging and it warms my heart that KSA is not all alone (excluding the smaller GCC states and Tunisia to a degree and a few others).

Therefore one can only hail such decisions;

Sisi stresses Egypt’s ‘strategic relationship’ with Saudi Arabia

Sisi was speaking during a meeting in Cairo with Saudi Minister of Civil Service and cabinet member Issam bin Said. (File photo: Reuters)

Staff writer, Al Arabiya English
Sunday, 7 January 2018
Text size
Sisi was speaking during a meeting in Cairo with Saudi Minister of Civil Service and cabinet member Issam bin Said. (Supplied)

Sisi said this would “strengthen their solidarity and promote joint Arab action, especially in light of the various challenges the region is facing.”

During the meeting, Saeed said that the two countries are keen to strengthen bilateral cooperation on all fronts.

He also said Saudi Arabia would continue "intensive consultation and coordination with Egypt on various regional issues and ways to address challenges which Arab and Islamic nations are battling."


Last Update: Sunday, 7 January 2018 KSA 08:03 - GMT 05:03

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...trategic-relationship-with-Saudi-Arabia-.html

This is not arrogance but who in the region can successfully challenge the KSA-Egypt-UAE and Arab allies axis in the region? None is the answer.

 

[HannibalBarca]

This is not arrogance but who in the region can successfully challenge the KSA-Egypt-UAE and Arab allies axis in the region? None is the answer.

None if "foreign" forces you meant by that... But Arabs do not need that... their Gov will challenge each others...since everyone... has different point of view on a similar matter... at a given time...

A simple exemple About the Egypt-KSA-UAE... is per exemple the increasing links with Syria governement, since Egypt begun to lay ground in Syria to the incoming reconstruction... That's one of the exemples...
The other could be the RU increasing relations and therefore will bring those "indirect" allies that come with it... Something KSA and UAE, could not accept that easily...and "could" take measures against X state...
The Isreali-Arab relation that is increasing...could also, give a punch into the statut quo...
Many, many "factors" exist in the region, to push it to not being "One"...

Right now, it seems calm... since everyone is preparing and consolidating their own problems at home..;but when things get "stable"... That's where problems will start...

It' snot like it's a new thing, it was like that for centuries... MAmluks with ottomans, Arabs with Ottomans and Persians and so on...

That's why all this "Alliance" is only for a time... The Question is not how long will it last... But How every sides could work to make it less "Chaotic" when it happen...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

None if "foreign" forces you meant by that... But Arabs do not need that... their Gov will challange each others...since everyone... has different point of view on a similar matter... at a given time...

A simple exemple About the Egypt-KSa-UAE... is per exemple the increasing links with Syria governement, since Egypt begun to lay ground in Syria to the incoming reconstruction... That's one of the exemples... The other could be the RU increasing relations and therefore, indirect allies that come with it... Something KSA and UAE, could not accpe tthat easily...and "could" say it by taking measures...
The Isreali-Arab relation that is increasing...could also, give a punch int he stut quo...
Many, many "factors" exist in the region, topush it to not being "One"...

Right now, it seems calm... since everyone is preparing and consolidating their own problems at home..;but when things get "stable"... That's where problems will start...

It' snot like it's a new thing, it was like that for centuries... MAmluks with ottomans, Arabs with Ottomans and Persians and so on...

That's why all this "Alliance" is only for a time... The Question is not how long will it last... But How every sides could work to make it less "Chaotic" when it happen...

Yes, Arab government foolishness is our greatest enemy. This is what has enabled a pathetically incompetent regime like the Iranian Mullah's to even have a bit of influence in 2-3 Arab countries. If not for this incompetence it would not have been possible.

KSA is not much different from Egypt in this regard when it comes to speaking with the Syrian regime. It's less out there in the open though. Don't forget that King Abdullah and Al-Assad used to have somewhat cordial ties.

Russia and KSA are entering a new era in relations. The recent history visit was a sign of this. Flexibility is a key here. KSA and Russia will always sit down and talk together due to being major oil and gas producers alone. This interest alone is a stronger interest than what many so-called allies in the region share in common (talking from a purely geo-strategically politically state point of view - not people here or history etc.)

Rivalry will always be there but the solution to ending most internal Arab rivalries is rather simple. It's called integration (political and economic). GCC is a good example of this and this is a new experience (less than 40 years old) and done by non-elective people/governments. The reason why the Qatar dispute did not turn bloody is simply due to the fact that neither KSA, UAE, Bahrain or Qatar (least of all) can afford a bloody conflict due to a tied political, economic and geographic destiny on the long run.

Take the example of KSA and Iraq. Two neighbors that share a lot in common (Tunisia and Libya relations in comparison to demonstrate how close this relationship really is people to people historically) who now have turned the page and accelerating ties on all fronts. KSA firms and investors have already signed billion dollar big deals in Iraq and there is also activity from the other side. Military cooperation is resumed, anti-terrorist cooperation and other cooperation. It's done mostly without making too much public fuss but a lot is happening. If this continues for say 4-5 years let alone 10 years and becomes a stronger bond, future conflict would look very unlikely despite disagreements as seen within the GCC.

So this is the way forward in the Arab world. You wrote it yourself in regards to Maghreb uniting on similar fronts. I have spoken about this ever since I became interested in politics and after studying Arab history and the history of our region. 3-4 regional Arab blocs (united) will automatically link them together like a pendulum.



Time is all what is needed and ambitious leaders with visions. It's LONG OVERDUE IMO. Anyone who thinks that he (his country) is some isolated island out there on its own is mistaken. We are connected whether we like it or not. Not only talking about the obvious here like geography etc. but destiny too.

 

[mahatir]

Yes, Arab government foolishness is our greatest enemy. This is what has enabled a pathetically incompetent regime like the Iranian Mullah's to even have a bit of influence in 2-3 Arab countries. If not for this incompetence it would not have been possible.

KSA is not much different from Egypt in this regard when it comes to speaking with the Syrian regime. It's less out there in the open though. Don't forget that King Abdullah and Al-Assad used to have somewhat cordial ties.

Russia and KSA are entering a new era in relations. The recent history visit was a sign of this. Flexibility is a key here. KSA and Russia will always sit down and talk together due to being major oil and gas producers alone. This interest alone is a stronger interest than what many so-called allies in the region share in common (talking from a purely geo-strategically politically state point of view - not people here or history etc.)

Rivalry will always be there but the solution to ending most internal Arab rivalries is rather simple. It's called integration (political and economic). GCC is a good example of this and this is a new experience (less than 40 years old) and done by non-elective people/governments. The reason why the Qatar dispute did not turn bloody is simply due to the fact that neither KSA, UAE, Bahrain or Qatar (least of all) can afford a bloody conflict due to a tied political, economic and geographic destiny on the long run.

Take the example of KSA and Iraq. Two neighbors that share a lot in common (Tunisia and Libya relations in comparison to demonstrate how close this relationship really is people to people historically) who now have turned the page and accelerating ties on all fronts. KSA firms and investors have already signed billion dollar big deals in Iraq and there is also activity from the other side. Military cooperation is resumed, anti-terrorist cooperation and other cooperation. It's done mostly without making too much public fuss but a lot is happening. If this continues for say 4-5 years let alone 10 years and becomes a stronger bond, future conflict would look very unlikely despite disagreements as seen within the GCC.

So this is the way forward in the Arab world. You wrote it yourself in regards to Maghreb uniting on similar fronts. I have spoken about this ever since I became interested in politics and after studying Arab history and the history of our region. 3-4 regional Arab blocs (united) will automatically link them together like a pendulum.



Time is all what is needed and ambitious leaders with visions. It's LONG OVERDUE IMO. Anyone who thinks that he (his country) is some isolated island out there on its own is mistaken. We are connected whether we like it or not. Not only talking about the obvious here like geography etc. but destiny too.

Integration will be easy within Arab countries that do not have any MB/Turkish/Iranian influence , these forces stand against any Arab unity because if it happens it will end their so called Islamic caliphate project .

I can see integration between Libya , Morroco , Jordan , Yemen , Egypt and Gulf states but the rest are still under MB Influence and it will take time for them to grow up and understand how the world works .

 

[HannibalBarca]

Integration will be easy within Arab countries that do not have any MB/Turkish/Iranian influence , these forces stand against any Arab unity because if it happens it will end their so called Islamic caliphate project .

I can see integration between Libya , Morroco , Jordan , Yemen , Egypt and Gulf states but the rest are still under MB Influence and it will take time for them to grow up and understand how the world works .

We know each others that Egypt and GCC...is not a durable alliance...
So let's not put Arabs in different boxes, just bc "You think" they are under X Influences...
Since EveryBody is under "One or few influences" starting by Egypt Himself...let alone GCC... Where even among themselfs, they are not under one Banner...

The future of the region, is not a Question of who follow what or who...But What each others will do, to live peacefully... Those proto-Alliances... never last, neither they are needed... at least Till... The people of each NAtion is free to choose their man/woman of power... Democratically and freely... till then... every "Proto-Dictator" will seek to elevate his "Name" higher than his next door "Brother"... Simple as that...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

We know each others that Egypt and GCC...is not a durable alliance...
So let's not put Arabs in different boxes, just bc "You think" they are under X Influences...
Since EveryBody is under "One or few influences" starting by Egypt Himself...let alone GCC... Where even among themselfs, they are not under one Banner...

The future of the region, is not a Question of who follow what or who...But What each others will do, to live peacefully... Those proto-Alliances... never last, neither they are needed... at least Till... The people of each NAtion is free to choose their man/woman of power... Democratically and freely... till then... every "Proto-Dictator" will seek to elevate his "Name" higher than his next door "Brother"... Simple as that...

What makes you think that it is not a durable alliance? Do you even know the history of neighboring Egypt and KSA? The very close linguistic, cultural, historical, genetical, geographical (obvious), religious, economic etc. ties between Egypt and KSA (in particular the region that I originate from - Hijaz)?

KSA and Egypt need each other. Most of their interests align naturally. Throughout most of recorded history there has been close cooperation (during pharaonic times trade ties and even religious ties) and little hostility. In the modern-era the Nasser era was an exception and only due to two conflicting ideologies or rather say two conflicting patrons (West one one hand and USSR on the other). Ever since, very close cooperation.

What is a more important regional ally for Egypt than KSA?

Sudan? Libya? Jordan? None can compare with KSA. Not even talking economically here.

Bonus info: Most Hijazis have some degree of Egyptian ancestry (me for instance although it is more distant nowadays) as well as vice versa. Nasser (ironically) for instance was a good example.

Integration will be easy within Arab countries that do not have any MB/Turkish/Iranian influence , these forces stand against any Arab unity because if it happens it will end their so called Islamic caliphate project .

I can see integration between Libya , Morroco , Jordan , Yemen , Egypt and Gulf states but the rest are still under MB Influence and it will take time for them to grow up and understand how the world works .

MB is a political group mostly confined to Egypt (its original homeland) with much weaker branches elsewhere. It's a political group that can reform (as it has done throughout the years already) and with supporters in every single Arab country. While the rulers dislike this party for obvious reasons due to the leaderships ties with certain entities and past recent political failures, we have to remember that it's just a political party with a certain political outlook. Nothing more and nothing less. Personally I am not their greatest fans (don't overly like modern day Islamist parties in the region) but that is in fact irrelevant.

Iranian influence is limited to a tiny number of Shia Arabs in Bahrain (not even the majority), some areas of Southern Iraq (Shias again but this influence is in fact diminishing and Iraqi Shia Arab nationalism is one the rise) and of course tiny Lebanon (Hezbollah) which is indeed a satellite state but once the Mullah's in Iran are gone there will be nothing that will tie those two areas and people. So let us not overestimate things here.

As for Turkish influence? What influence and where exactly? Tiny Afrin in Syria? Somalia (which is not really Arab and should not be an Arab League Member State IMO). It can never be a competitor for anything in the Arab world.

BTW the goal should not be to create some kind of uniform existence on all fronts but merely to increase economic and political ties that reflect the wishes of the people and thus to such an extend that potential hostility (either created by regimes in power or foreign entities) will fail by large. This is very possible and the rapprochement between KSA and Iraq is a good example or KSA and Sudan.

 

[HannibalBarca]

What makes you think that it is not a durable alliance? Do you even know the history of neighboring Egypt and KSA? The very close linguistic, cultural, historical, genetical, geographical (obvious), religious, economic etc. ties between Egypt and KSA (in particular the region that I originate from - Hijaz)?

KSA and Egypt need each other. Most of their interests align naturally. Throughout most of recorded history there has been close cooperation (during pharaonic times trade ties and even religious ties) and little hostility. In the modern-era the Nasser era was an exception and only due to two conflicting ideologies or rather say two conflicting patrons (West one one hand and USSR on the other). Ever since, very close cooperation.

What is a more important regional ally for Egypt than KSA?

Sudan? Libya? Jordan? None can compare with KSA. Not even talking economically here.

Bonus info: Most Hijazis have some degree of Egyptian ancestry (me for instance although it is more distant nowadays) as well as vice versa. Nasser (ironically) for instance was a good example.

Like i said... This alliance is only for a time...till things become more stable... I speak about this "strategic" Alliance... not ties... . Ties will stay like many countries around...
History has no meaning in today Realpolitiks... the People Forget really fast... therefore..; they live day by day...same for their "sentiments"...
Egytians in general do not put Saudis and co, in high esteem... At least what I could see from Friends and those I encounter during my life... And that point is very important... And I'm not even speaking about those two Islands... that put things even more complicated...

Egypt is a military regime... therefore will in the future seek to enforce ties with other Military regime... Per exemple... Syria...Where Egyptian companies begun to lay their footprint for the reconstruction of Syria... ( and inderectly, Iran)
The increase of Russia influence... YOu can say KSA has increased her RU ties..; that is right...but will not put it ahead of the US... therefore if Egypt drift more toward RU... The rift will grow...

Then you have Israel... GCC are more "willing" to accept Israel position... Something Egypt will find it harder to swallow... even if their gov are... the people see it as a red line... So things could heat up...

All those "events"/"Factors" could play a part in making this Alliance no more... or at least not as strong as we see it...

In the End... both parties need each others... Egypt, need a financial power and GCC need a powerfull power to tip the balance in the region... But when one of those two will acquire what he lack... it's the End...But Ties will stay... but the "One front" will be no more...

Ps: Egypt do not need to side with the US as much as GCC... since , even if she support the US as much as KSA/UAE... she will still not have what they can buy... (Strategic Def equipment etc...) So a Deep US support is not that important...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Like i said... This allaince is only for a time...till things become more stable... I speak about this "strategic" Alliance... not ties... . Ties will stay like many countries around...
History has no meaning in today Realpolitiks... the People Forget really fast... therefore..; they live day by day...same for their "sentiments"...
Egytians in general do not put Saudis and co, in high esteem... At least what I could see from Friends and those I encounter during my life... And that point is very important... And I'm not even seaking about those two Islands... that put things even more complicated...

Egypt is a military regime... therefore will in the future seek to enforce ties with other Military regime... Per exemple... Syria...Where Egyptian companies begun to lay their footprint for the reconstruction of Syria... ( and inderectly, Iran)
The increase of Russia influence... YOu can say KSA has increased her RU ties..; that is right...but will not put it ahead of the US... therefore if Egypt drift more toward RU... The rift will grow...

Then you have Israel... GCC are more "willing" to accept Israel position... Something Egypt will find it harder to swallow... even if their gov are... the people see it as a red line... So things could heat up...

All those "events"/"Factors" could play a part in making this Alliance no more... or at least not as strong as we see it...

In the End... both parties need each others... Egypt, need a financial power and GCC need a powerfull power to tip the balance in the region... But when one of those two will acquire what he lack... it's the End...But Ties will stay... but the "One front" will be no more...

Ps: Egypt do not need to side with the US as much as GCC... since , even if she support the US as much as KSA/UAE... she will still not have what they can buy... (Def equipment etc...) So the US support is not that important...

You do not seem to understand the historical and current day realities and facts that I wrote about and which most Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are well aware of or the economic factor alone or that most interests align naturally. Not even talking about the brotherly relations between the two peoples which is the most important thing as it will outdate every single regime just like it has always done.

You are overthinking too much.

You are totally wrong and this goes both ways. Such kind of people (minority) will "look down" on KSA due to regime policies (that are changing) while similar people in KSA will look down on Egypt due to economic, cultural etc. reasons. That does not reflect anything.

The two islands which was a non-issue. Who talks about this anymore? They will be used to connect KSA and Egypt directly (King Salman Bridge). Nobody. Russia will not be ahead of the US in Egypt either or the West. Egypt needs the US and the West much more than Russia.

No they are not. Is that why Egypt unlike the GCC has recognized Israel? As for people neither Egyptians nor Saudi Arabians or people in the GCC (citizens) are fans of Israel.

In the past 30 years (ever since Nasser died) KSA and Egypt has been on the same page and front while this was also the case previously (under the monarchy). I don't see that changing any time soon and I never expect KSA and Egypt to be enemies and for our interests to collide more than they align. I consider this more or less impossible.

@Gomig-21 @The SC @Hell NO @EgyptianAmerican @Ahmad Torky @Mahmoud_EGY @Frogman @Amun @Nile-Tiger etc.

 

[HannibalBarca]

You do not seem to understand the historical and current day realities and facts that I wrote about and which most Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are well aware of or the economic factor alone or that most interests align naturally. Not even talking about the brotherly relations between the two peoples which is the most important thing as it will outdate every single regime just like it has always done.

You are overthinking too much.

You are totally wrong and this goes both ways. Such kind of people (minority) will "look down" on KSA due to regime policies (that are changing) while similar people in KSA will look down on Egypt due to economic, cultural etc. reasons. That does not reflect anything.

The two islands which was a non-issue. Who talks about this anymore? They will be used to connect KSA and Egypt directly (King Salman Bridge). Nobody. Russia will not be ahead of the US in Egypt either or the West. Egypt needs the US and the West much more than Russia.

No they are not. Is that why Egypt unlike the GCC has recognized Israel? As for people neither Egyptians nor Saudi Arabians or people in the GCC (citizens) are fans of Israel.

I think the best Answer is... Time will tell.

And I keep saying it...History has no power... SInce those who should read it...do not waste their time on it...

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I think the best Answer is... Time will tell.

And I keep saying it...History has no power... SInce those who should read it...do not waste their time on it...

People who underestimate history and what makes a people a brotherly people and interests to align or the opposite, tend to 1) not understand the past, 2) nor the future. Just a observation.

But yes, we will see if the current-day realities will change or that of the past many decades (ever since Nasser died).

Personally, as I wrote, I highly doubt it but of course I know that many people hope for this, mainly people who wish bad for both KSA and Egypt. Not saying that you are part of that group but I know which regional regimes are.

 

[mahatir]

We know each others that Egypt and GCC...is not a durable alliance...
So let's not put Arabs in different boxes, just bc "You think" they are under X Influences...
Since EveryBody is under "One or few influences" starting by Egypt Himself...let alone GCC... Where even among themselfs, they are not under one Banner...

The future of the region, is not a Question of who follow what or who...But What each others will do, to live peacefully... Those proto-Alliances... never last, neither they are needed... at least Till... The people of each NAtion is free to choose their man/woman of power... Democratically and freely... till then... every "Proto-Dictator" will seek to elevate his "Name" higher than his next door "Brother"... Simple as that...

You seem to be out of touch with events in the middle east, the relations between Gulf Countries and Egypt have been stable for over 40 years. There are certainly differences regarding some issues even among GCC countries themselves.The problem with Qatar is that she played a role bigger than her size including helping Saudi Arabia enemies with money and arms.

The relations between Syria and Egypt will be limited to trade and cultural exchange just like any other country and neither of them countries will enter into any alliance threatening the other.

Egypt will never seek or attempt to be playing a leading role in the Middle East, they are busy building their economy and solving their domestic problems.

Egypt is however heavily building up its army in preparation for any future conflict with Sudan if they attempt to steal Egyptian waters. They are also working to develop strong bilateral ties with East African countries .

The region will be like Isolated blocks working together as follows

1) Iran , Syria , Lebanon and Iraq as one block
2) Turkey , Sudan , Qatar and MB
3) Tunisia , Algeria and Western Libya
4) Eastern Libya , Egypt , Yemen and Gulf countries excluding Qatar
5) Oman will be out of all of this.

You do not seem to understand the historical and current day realities and facts that I wrote about and which most Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are well aware of or the economic factor alone or that most interests align naturally. Not even talking about the brotherly relations between the two peoples which is the most important thing as it will outdate every single regime just like it has always done.

You are overthinking too much.

You are totally wrong and this goes both ways. Such kind of people (minority) will "look down" on KSA due to regime policies (that are changing) while similar people in KSA will look down on Egypt due to economic, cultural etc. reasons. That does not reflect anything.

The two islands which was a non-issue. Who talks about this anymore? They will be used to connect KSA and Egypt directly (King Salman Bridge). Nobody. Russia will not be ahead of the US in Egypt either or the West. Egypt needs the US and the West much more than Russia.

No they are not. Is that why Egypt unlike the GCC has recognized Israel? As for people neither Egyptians nor Saudi Arabians or people in the GCC (citizens) are fans of Israel.

In the past 30 years (ever since Nasser died) KSA and Egypt has been on the same page and front while this was also the case previously (under the monarchy). I don't see that changing any time soon and I never expect KSA and Egypt to be enemies and for our interests to collide more than they align. I consider this more or less impossible.

@Gomig-21 @The SC @Hell NO @EgyptianAmerican @Ahmad Torky @Mahmoud_EGY @Frogman @Amun @Nile-Tiger etc.

He has no idea about the Middle East, Egypt and Saudi Arabia ties have been strong for 40 years and the Egyptian leadership understand well that Saudi Arabia is the strongest Arab country, even Sisi himself said it several times.

The only thing I fear is the break of war between Sudan and Egypt as a result of Qatar and Turkey pushing Sudan to create tension with Egypt. Saudi Arabia has enough influence to force both countries not to escalate things.

What makes you think that it is not a durable alliance? Do you even know the history of neighboring Egypt and KSA? The very close linguistic, cultural, historical, genetical, geographical (obvious), religious, economic etc. ties between Egypt and KSA (in particular the region that I originate from - Hijaz)?

KSA and Egypt need each other. Most of their interests align naturally. Throughout most of recorded history there has been close cooperation (during pharaonic times trade ties and even religious ties) and little hostility. In the modern-era the Nasser era was an exception and only due to two conflicting ideologies or rather say two conflicting patrons (West one one hand and USSR on the other). Ever since, very close cooperation.

What is a more important regional ally for Egypt than KSA?

Sudan? Libya? Jordan? None can compare with KSA. Not even talking economically here.

Bonus info: Most Hijazis have some degree of Egyptian ancestry (me for instance although it is more distant nowadays) as well as vice versa. Nasser (ironically) for instance was a good example.



MB is a political group mostly confined to Egypt (its original homeland) with much weaker branches elsewhere. It's a political group that can reform (as it has done throughout the years already) and with supporters in every single Arab country. While the rulers dislike this party for obvious reasons due to the leaderships ties with certain entities and past recent political failures, we have to remember that it's just a political party with a certain political outlook. Nothing more and nothing less. Personally I am not their greatest fans (don't overly like modern day Islamist parties in the region) but that is in fact irrelevant.

Iranian influence is limited to a tiny number of Shia Arabs in Bahrain (not even the majority), some areas of Southern Iraq (Shias again but this influence is in fact diminishing and Iraqi Shia Arab nationalism is one the rise) and of course tiny Lebanon (Hezbollah) which is indeed a satellite state but once the Mullah's in Iran are gone there will be nothing that will tie those two areas and people. So let us not overestimate things here.

As for Turkish influence? What influence and where exactly? Tiny Afrin in Syria? Somalia (which is not really Arab and should not be an Arab League Member State IMO). It can never be a competitor for anything in the Arab world.

BTW the goal should not be to create some kind of uniform existence on all fronts but merely to increase economic and political ties that reflect the wishes of the people and thus to such an extend that potential hostility (either created by regimes in power or foreign entities) will fail by large. This is very possible and the rapprochement between KSA and Iraq is a good example or KSA and Sudan.

1) MB branches control Sudan, parts of Western Libya , Gaza and Qatar which are all allied with Turkey.
2) MB has influence on Tunisia and currently control a government in Morroco with limited power , the King retains control over Army and Police .
3) Iran has influence over Iraq, Lebanon, and parts of Syria in cooperation with Russia.
4) Saudi Arabia has influence over Egypt, Eastern Libya ( allied to Egypt and UAE ) ,Yemen and remaining Gulf states.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest country in the region and its influence will continue to grow , its only currently Iran has temporary influence which will eventually decline .

 

[Saif al-Arab]

You seem to be out of touch with events in the middle east, the relations between Gulf Countries and Egypt have been stable for over 40 years. There are certainly differences regarding some issues even among GCC countries themselves.The problem with Qatar is that she played a role bigger than her size including helping Saudi Arabia enemies with money and arms.

The relations between Syria and Egypt will be limited to trade and cultural exchange just like any other country and neither of them countries will enter into any alliance threatening the other.

Egypt will never seek or attempt to be playing a leading role in the Middle East, they are busy building their economy and solving their domestic problems.

Egypt is however heavily building up its army in preparation for any future conflict with Sudan if they attempt to steal Egyptian waters. They are also working to develop strong bilateral ties with East African countries .

The region will be like Isolated blocks working together as follows

1) Iran , Syria , Lebanon and Iraq as one block
2) Turkey , Sudan , Qatar and MB
3) Tunisia , Algeria and Western Libya
4) Eastern Libya , Egypt , Yemen and Gulf countries excluding Qatar
5) Oman will be out of all of this.



He has no idea about the Middle East, Egypt and Saudi Arabia ties have been strong for 40 years and the Egyptian leadership understand well that Saudi Arabia is the strongest Arab country, even Sisi himself said it several times.

The only thing I fear is the break of war between Sudan and Egypt as a result of Qatar and Turkey pushing Sudan to create tension with Egypt. Saudi Arabia has enough influence to force both countries not to escalate things.



1) MB branches control Sudan, parts of Western Libya , Gaza and Qatar which are all allied with Turkey.
2) MB has influence on Tunisia and currently control a government in Morroco with limited power , the King retains control over Army and Police .
3) Iran has influence over Iraq, Lebanon, and parts of Syria in cooperation with Russia.
4) Saudi Arabia has influence over Egypt, Eastern Libya ( allied to Egypt and UAE ) ,Yemen and remaining Gulf states.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest country in the region and its influence will continue to grow , its only currently Iran has temporary influence which will eventually decline .

Qatar will eventually wise up. They cannot afford status quo. The US has tried to act as a neutral but we all know that should they pick a side they would not favor tiny Qatar over KSA, UAE, Egypt, Bahrain and allies. It's simply impossible. No matter the billions of dollars that Qatar has been spending on their media empire and on media goodwill in the West and elsewhere (Arab world).

Qatar will change its current policies (at least elements - already happening slowly but surely) as they are tied to the GCC and its destiny due to geography and everything else. Well-informed Qataris who do not follow regime policies blindly know that for instance Iran and Iranians are no true friends let alone people that can substitute their neighboring Arab brothers and sisters who they share everything in common with.

Economically it has been a very tough year for Qatar due to this embargo. Just take a look at the recent New Years Eve speech of the Qatari Emir.

Egypt should not look at a greater regional role until domestic issues are dealt with other than in terms of military presence to secure its fundamental interests and rights, mainly the security of Nile and the Southeastern Mediterranean and Red Sea.

Personally I would prefer KSA to look inwards as well as King Salman and MbS has been doing lately too. Let the Mullah's waste billions of dollars on their proxy empire (love that description of them) while their own country is going in the wrong direction on almost every front unlike KSA.

Yes, speaking about East African countries, KSA and the UAE is onboard on this policy which I consider a good one.

As for Iran (Mullah's).

In Lebanon the influence is limited to Southern Lebanon (Hezbollah) and allies but this relationship is artificial due to geography, history, lack of common ties with Iran and Iranians other than Iranian Arabs and Shia Islam (Wilayat al-Faqih). Moreover Lebanese Sunni Arabs (a significant community in Lebanon) absolutely despise Iran. Maybe only comparable to Iraqi Sunni Arabs (due to historical reasons) and much of the current-day sentiments in the GCC. Once the Mullah rule in Iran ends (question of time and not if) this influence will crumble as there will be little if anything in common.

Syria is no longer a real country but divided into several parts, each with a different ruling group and foreign patron. Russia is the real decision maker and those that changed the tie of the war and not Iran nor Turkey for that matter. Most Syrians though (people) are not pro-Iran (despise it) and would align themselves with KSA as historically (traditionally very close relations between Sham and Arabia) if given the choice.

Iraq under Al-Abadi is a totally different beast altogether than the incompetent parasite Al-Maliki. Iraq is opening up to KSA (especially) and ties are cordial once again. As well as other Arab countries. Iraq (the people in power and most Iraqis) have no interests in becoming a satellite state of Iran. Iraqis are very proud people and Arab nationalists by large. Even the Shia Arab Islamist lot by large but in a different way than your average Sunni Arab. They value Arab cooperation but they are obviously no fans of criticizing the Iranian Mullah's due to religious reasons. That's the only difference iMO.

KSA officials have visited all the most influential clerics in Southern Iraq (almost) with the exception of Al-Sistani and in such meetings such issues are openly highlighting and if it played no role at all it would not be done as it is not done with the Iraqi Sunni Arab community as it is stating the obvious.

Example:

During the much visited and successful Saudi Arabian EXPO in Baghdad (food, products etc.) 2.5 months ago.

Not sure if Sudan is in the Turkey (AKP) camp. Leasing some small island city for a few years (most likely) and renovating it won't change much IMO. With Al-Bashir you never know. At any given notice he can cancel such projects. As long as KSA is around and ties with Sudan are non-hostile (as not many years ago) it will not turn into a pro-Turkey entity. Sudanese will always pick KSA before Turkey due to history, ethnicity, geography, economy etc. Simple geopolitics really. Also don't forget that KSA and Sudan had a mutual military exercise (air force) last year in Sudan.

Qatar currently, yes, as well as MB.

Algeria is neutral (pro-Russian) and is the most incompetent Arab regime IMO compared to Algeria's size, population, natural resources and potential. They are paranoid ever since the civil war in the 1990's. Western Libya is chaotic and ever changing. As the rest of Libya. Similar story as Syria. I expect Libya to be divided into at least 2 parts (West and East) with autonomy for the Touregs in the South and Berbers in the Southwest.

Oman is neutral for now but once the current Sultan (who has cancer) dies, I expect them to calling align closely with KSA (only natural) once again although they will always pursue an somewhat independent policy due to their past as an imperial naval power and regional power. They are not a problem either and Omanis are some of the nicest people out there as you probably already know. Our dear neighbors (both of us).

BTW although I am no Islamist at all and don't agree with MB, I believe that interaction (dialogue) is the way forward and it is not in our interests to have hostile ties with our own Islamists or that of others in foreign Arab countries. A partnership is possible and should be sought. Not only with Islamists but with every group of people. Here I am of course not talking about terrorists who must be dealt with harshly and quickly regardless of who they are and what sect they claim to adhere to.

The most important think for the Arab world is to create regional blocs and foster closer economic and political ties. People to people relations are already close and cordial by large and will only be further strengthened that way. Although the GCC Is not perfect, it is the way for regional Arab blocs to go if they want to be their own masters.

It's much easier for foreigners (single states usually) to gain influence in a region like the Arab world (20 + countries) that it is for 20 + countries to unite. No big deal actually. Surprised that foreigners have this little influence (expect for the US of course which has influence everywhere almost)

@TheCamelGuy usually has similar and nice observations on this topic so he might add something to this discussion from an Iraqi perspective.

Well, that was a longer post that I intended. Hopefully it will cause no problems @mahatir .

BTW we are off-topic but I hope that our Egyptian brothers will forgive us.

 

[mahatir]

You want to hear something interesting? Since I've been here for close to 32 years, I've seen it all, and the major thing I noticed is that the reaction you get from Americans is exactly what I got for many years. The minute they would hear me say "I'm from Egypt," their faces would light up "oh my God I love Egypt I want to visit the Pyramids" lol etc. the usual. Then came 911 (and this has nothing to do with the educated or the ignorant as in the entire scope of class), the sentiment did a 180 degree turn. Now the reaction became "Oh....interesting." This lasted for about 5 or so years and it has since slowly reverted almost back to the original, happy sentiment, but not like it was. There is a DEFINITE change in reaction and especially among people who are connected with world events. Most of the younger, millennials don't really have a clue and are either twigged to the extreme or just don't know anything and by that effect, are not exactly open to being freindly.



They dislike us because of several reasons but what I notice most is that much of it has to do with the political stances of their respective country vs Egypt. Nothing is more evident in support of that theory than with the Turks.



And most of the educated people are also just more tactful and respectful with their reactions and sentiments. They know how to hide it better but it's just as prevalent, if not more because there is also the Israel/Jew factor. If they don't show the signs immediately, they're usually cautious about any sincere, friendly reaction. I've seen it change for 3-1/2 decades and the way it flips and flops is fascinating.

When I first came to the US and went to college, I was the only Egyptian student is a school body of about 30,000 (if I recall correctly) and it was a specialized college so the body was not huge, but the interesting part was that the people I made friends with more than any others were the Israelis (believe it or not) and Americans from the south! Those two I got along with so well we became best of friends and even moved in together until we went our separate ways. This was back in 1985. Things have considerably changed by today's standards.



I completely agree, especially Algerians. I say the majority of them despise us and good for them. Toz fehum simple as that.



The move with Eritrea is fantastic and even better is the one with Tanzania! Talk about coming in from the backdoor, Ethiopia! And I was born in Ethiopia so I have a certain level of endearment for that country.



I completely agree. This is actually quite obvious. Some of my best friends are Jews and they are outstanding people. Heck I have friends who are Egyptian Jews who's parents have been here since 1958. I get along with every single Israeli I've met and even do business with them and they are very trustworthy. The only time I had an issue was when I got denied the contract to build a house for an Israeli woman who was nervous because I was Egyptian, and she though I would have an issue with her. Of course that couldn't be further from the truth as the structural engineer I've worked with for 10 years prior to that is Israeli LOL. Other than that, they show us much more respect than the overwhelming majority of these other Arabs. I have to say, my Saudi friends are 100% on the up and up and what I see is actually a worst sentiment from my Egyptian friends towards Saudis than the other way around. It's too bad and it saddens me, actually. I suppose different people will have different experiences.

At the Masjid, there is a larger percentage of Egyptians than any other nationality. The imam and the caretaker are both Egyptians and even the backup imam is as well. It's tough getting out of there after salaat el jumaa as they love to yack it up! lol



I've been telling that to our resident Egyptian hater Ceylal for months now.

It does not matter what they think, they are useless and toothless. The relations with countries like Algeria should be minimized to trade and investments.
The Algerian government just took a decision to ban importing 900 different products to reduce their public deficit, imagine if Sisi government took such decision it will be all over media.

http://medafricatimes.com/14842-Algeria-bans-imports-of-900-products-to-curb-spending.html

I think they should have included the barbarian Algerian peasant in that list for public mental health safety.

The Israelis/Jews are much more civilized and educated than average Sudanese or Algerian. They are entrepreneurs by nature and will seek to build good ties with anyone they meet to advance their agenda, wonder why they have the second strongest lobby in the USA?

Given that they still dislike Arabs and have committed crimes against Palestinians but you can still make a durable peace with them. The Egyptian/Israeli peace treaty survived for 40 years now and currently Israel border with Egypt is the most stable and quiet one, on the other hand, you are having Terrorism and smuggling activities exported from Sudan, Libya, and Gaza. Sudan even claims Egyptian territory and supports Ethiopian Dam project to affect Egypt water supply.

To be honest Egyptian security establishment should re-define who the new enemies are and I think they already know that by establishing naval and air bases in the south. If Nasser had any brain back in 1956 he should have focused only on smashing Sudan then you would not have to deal with Ethiopian dam today.

 

[Gomig-21]

BTW we are off-topic but I hope that our Egyptian brothers will forgive us.

What a terrific discussion and no, @Sharif al-Hijaz no worries at all my brother, this discussion relates quite strongly with the topic at hand since much of the economic growth that is currently being experienced in Egypt is strongly influenced by these regional ties and connections and the Arab street, locally AND abroad, even all the way here to the United States and as you can see, even Malayasia! So please, discuss away and these are quite civilized discussions which is the way they should be on forums. Here we are, a group that gets along very well and probably one of the rarer times where we agree and actually disagree on certain sensitive issues. Bringing them out and putting them on the table is nothing short of the best thing to do.

In the End... both parties need each others... Egypt, need a financial power and GCC need a powerfull power to tip the balance in the region... But when one of those two will acquire what he lack... it's the End...But Ties will stay... but the "One front" will be no more...

I don't see that happening at all, Barca. The connection between KSA and Egypt is rooted beyond these past 80 years, even beyond the past 1400 years. It goes back to prehistoric times, so to speak. This is not even an alliance, it's a bond that has strengths beyond any type of adversity. What you might see is dips and rises with very long periods of leveling off at the top, just like the way it is ATM.

http://medafricatimes.com/14842-Algeria-bans-imports-of-900-products-to-curb-spending.html

I read that on another news outlet and the funny part is how I was getting A lot of flack from Algerians on another forum where they were tearing me up on the issue of high inflation in Egypt and particularly what Sisi did with floating the pound. Smashing Sisi is a hobby amongst these fellas. They kept bragging about how much wealthier they were and their oil and this and that and I told them to be careful, these types of economic hits don't discriminate and I gave them examples of austerity measures that even Germany had to make and they laughed at me. Who's laughing now? One of the best bumper stickers is "Karma is a Bitch!"

This goes back to the negative view these Maghrebis have of Egypt and particularly Egyptians and leave it to fate to level the playing field since I never take any pleasure in going back to people and laughing at their demise or even reminding them that I told them so. They should've known better. But the important and undeniable fact is that very strong existence of this hatred towards Egyptians. It's not just among the ignorant. The educated just know how to either hide it or they show it but don't speak it. These are very noticeable things if you know what you're looking for. You don't even need to go much further than this forum here lol.

The Israelis/Jews are much more civilized and educated than average Sudanese or Algerian. They are entrepreneurs by nature and will seek to build good ties with anyone they meet to advance their agenda, wonder why they have the second strongest lobby in the USA?

Let me give you another example: my dentist, whom I went to see for 20+ years was an American Jew, kind of a hippie from the late 60's/70's and he was the BEST guy/dentist etc. that I worked with. Professional beyond professional and very considerate and careful and most importantly, delicate with his work. That's pretty important when it comes to teeth, right? The poor man got cancer and had to sell his practice and who ends up buying it? A young Iraqi fellow who'm after the first visit, I have never stepped in that place again.

Now this is not the standard since one guy's behavior doesn't speak for all, but it was such a drastic downfall which included nationality issues that I won't get into that it was enough to support the theory we've been talking about.

Given that they still dislike Arabs and have committed crimes against Palestinians but you can still make a durable peace with them. The Egyptian/Israeli peace treaty survived for 40 years now and currently Israel border with Egypt is the most stable and quiet one, on the other hand, you are having Terrorism and smuggling activities exported from Sudan, Libya, and Gaza. Sudan even claims Egyptian territory and supports Ethiopian Dam project to affect Egypt water supply.

That's a perfect example. I couldn't have said it better. This is a fascinating dynamic that is happening and I don't think most people are blind to it. They realize it but it might just be a bit too uncomfortable to speak about that reality.

To be honest Egyptian security establishment should re-define who the new enemies are and I think they already know that by establishing naval and air bases in the south.

Despite all of Sisi's faults, he's recognized these very dangerous situations to Egypt's security and has taken excellent steps in confronting it. What he's done with Saudiya -- while taking a HUGE brunt of grief as a result -- has been one of his most brilliant moves to date, which leads to the Sanafir and Tiran islands and his strong conviction that they are Saudi islands. He is 100% on the spot with that. The grief he took from the Egyptian people was tremendous but he didn't do it because of the financial support from Saudiya or for any other reason of that type, but because it was the right thing to do! Not to mention that decision eases and facilitates the future bridging projects that will be created on those islands which in the end will strengthen the economy and the bond between Saudiya and Egypt. These are those brilliant yet very tough decisions that only strong leaders make.

The other twist to this is that the best way to handle those islands would've been through an international arbitration but the problem with that is it sets a precedence and then becomes an issue for future disputes and nothing can be more pertinent to that than the Halayib triangle. The Israelis lost the arbitration of a 100 meter stretch of gorgeous Egyptian sand beach in Taba (Sinai) in the late 80's and have vowed to never go that route again which has been quite obvious with Jerusalem. You'll never see the Israelis resort to that and neither us Egyptians when it comes to land disputes. The Sudanese are a bit ballsy, TBH, to even contemplate the thought that the Halayib triangle belongs to Sudan. One thinks the Nile water would bring war? Try seeing what happens with a most important and strategic bit of 20,000+ sqkm of land will cause!

If Nasser had any brain back in 1956 he should have focused only on smashing Sudan then you would not have to deal with Ethiopian dam today.

Not only Sudan, but several other horrific decisions (or non-decisions) and mistakes he made that we're still paying the very heavy price for today.

What I would be worried about is public opinion in a country like Sudan which is mostly negative and the Egyptian administration should keep a close eye on that country and be prepared to smash it if they affect Egypt water supply. Sudan is slowly turning into a new Venzuela , the government raised price of one bread 70 grams to one pound and the dollar appreciated to 32 Sudanese pound, the country will eventually explode from within and destroy itself which be a great advantage for Egypt.

I'll tell you what, I gotta hand it to you because you were the only one here who predicted the Sudan situation a long time ago and guess what, you don't usually see the EAF's F-16s positioned in Aswan. A very recent sat photo.

Put this together with the paratroopers in Eritrea and even the rapid deployment forces on the southern border and it's not hard to realize something is brewing. While these moves are 100% necessary, let's hope cooler heads prevail.