Egypt, UAE and Algeria are potential clients of SU-57

[Gomig-21]

The IAF version of FGFA will likely not be available for export either, but an export version will also be made at a later date.

At the rate things are currently going, we don't even know if there will be an FGFA and if there will be one, if there's any indication that it will be a 2-seat version of the current PAK-FA, good luck seeing that by 2035. I'm not optimistic about that. India might be better off just customizing the current PAK-FA and go with it.

But from one of our most reliable journalists, we learnt that the IAF version is estimated to cost $225M per jet flyaway.

That's nuts! Why so expensive?

And I don't believe the $100 million figure for the export version. I think it will be much more than that, closer to at least $150 million per just fly away cost.

 

[randomradio]

At the rate things are currently going, we don't even know if there will be an FGFA and if there will be one, if there's any indication that it will be a 2-seat version of the current PAK-FA, good luck seeing that by 2035. I'm not optimistic about that. India might be better off just customizing the current PAK-FA and go with it.

The first FGFA will be a single seat aircraft. This was confirmed half a decade ago.

That's nuts! Why so expensive?

The avionics will cost a lot.

And I don't believe the $100 million figure for the export version. I think it will be much more than that, closer to at least $150 million per just fly away cost.

$100M is for the current Russian version with new engines. It's just an estimate, not necessarily a real figure. Hell, it could only be $50-60M considering the ruble exchange.

An export version is yet to be made and could carry a very different cost. Exports are profit driven, so the margin will be bigger and will not reflect the cost of manufacturing the aircraft.

For example, the Russians pay less than $20M for a Su-35, but they charge 60M+ in the export market.

 

[wiseone2]

Well, according to our friend @randomradio , the PAK-FA will be the ultimate stealth fighter that will only compete with 6th generation aircraft and will have 6th gen technology. At the same time, the Rafale is also the stealthiest aircraft out there to date, better than the F-35. Some really fascinating stuff on this thread if you have time to read through it.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakfa-vs-f-22.539167/

The PAK-FA will be comparable to the F-117 in terms of stealth

 

[Imran Khan]

its good plane lets see what outcome of operational availability and cost also issues . overall not a bad idea .

 

[The SC]

Are you talking about the Rafale? When you put the weapons, spare parts, infrastructure and support into the costs, it comes up to $222M (today's exchange rate). The training is free for India. We paid extra $1B for a second air base.

The unit flyaway cost of the Rafale is $105M (at the time the contract was signed), including customized parts like the additional EW capability, SATCOM and HMDS.

The Rafale of course..
The main capability that makes the cost higher for India, is the nuclear capability..

For the Pak-FA ..the Russians do not want to transfer tech to India.. or that will be very limited..

 

[randomradio]

The Rafale of course..
The main capability that makes the cost higher for India, is the nuclear capability..

Nope. The Rafales we are getting won't have nuclear capability. We will have to add all the necessary equipment in them at our own cost. All export Rafales are de-nuclearized.

For the Pak-FA ..the Russians do not want to transfer tech to India.. or that will be very limited..

The FGFA will have far more ToT than MKI. And we are already making 85% of the MKI in India. We will even hold 50% ownership of the FGFA.

The only thing common between the Russian and Indian version will be the airframe, FCS and engine. And even those will be modified for Indian requirements. Everything else will be redeveloped, with source codes written in India. It's an 8 year program.

 

[The SC]

Nope. The Rafales we are getting won't have nuclear capability. We will have to add all the necessary equipment in them at our own cost. All export Rafales are de-nuclearized.

Just look it up again.. it was negotiated for and accorded by France.. as far as I remember..

The FGFA will have far more ToT than MKI. And we are already making 85% of the MKI in India. We will even hold 50% ownership of the FGFA.

The only thing common between the Russian and Indian version will be the airframe, FCS and engine. And even those will be modified for Indian requirements. Everything else will be redeveloped, with source codes written in India. It's an 8 year program.

There are some contradictions in your statement.. I can't understand that India will share it with Russia 50/50 and India at the end (according to you statement) is going to make its own version apart from the frame and engines!!!?

 

[randomradio]

Just look it up again.. it was negotiated for and accorded by France.. as far as I remember..

The Indian Rafales will have Indian nuke tech. The M-2000s and Jaguars are the same.

That's why we didn't buy the ASMP either. It can't be bought.

There are some contradictions in your statement.. I can't understand that India will share it with Russia 50/50 and India at end (according to you statement) is going to make its own version apart from the frame and engines!!!?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...o-sukhoi-t-50-russia/articleshow/57185821.cms
"The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program," Kladov said.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ind...n-fifth-generation-fighter-jet-design-1690580
"We are co-developers. There is nothing called technology transfer in this project. India has equal rights. We will have the wherewithal to continue production. We are equal partner in the project," he said.

 

[Gomig-21]

The FGFA will have far more ToT than MKI. And we are already making 85% of the MKI in India. We will even hold 50% ownership of the FGFA.

The only thing common between the Russian and Indian version will be the airframe, FCS and engine. And even those will be modified for Indian requirements. Everything else will be redeveloped, with source codes written in India. It's an 8 year program.

Stop getting banned, will ya! We have too much to argue about and I can't let you disappear without arguing my points!

So what's the story with India requesting a briefing on the F-35? You realize that if India is ever allowed near that thing, the US is going to ask for a major reduction in Russian cooperation and most likely a complete end to this PAK-FA/FGFA thingy that no one knows what it is exactly, right?

And let's hope that India PAK-FA doesn't look anything like whomever crayoned this setup!
That's just awful, but I like the way 2 pilots were put in lol.

If it ever does find it's way to Egypt 20 years from now lol, I think this would be a much nicer camo than that green leopard above!

 

[randomradio]

Stop getting banned, will ya! We have too much to argue about and I can't let you disappear without arguing my points!

I'll try, I'll try.

So what's the story with India requesting a briefing on the F-35? You realize that if India is ever allowed near that thing, the US is going to ask for a major reduction in Russian cooperation and most likely a complete end to this PAK-FA/FGFA thingy that no one knows what it is exactly, right?

It's difficult to say. I believe the FGFA will go ahead, the decision will likely be taken this year or the next. But the fallback plan if FGFA fails is a few squadrons of PAK FA and then we will have our own program called AMCA.

The F-35 is not meant to replace the FGFA. If the Americans want us to back out of the FGFA program, then they can only try that with the PCA, not with the F-35. We are not stupid enough to give air superiority missions to the F-35.

Even the Americans have changed their thinking for PCA. I bet the Rafale has played a part.
"Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson told reporters at a conference in Orlando Thursday that the system will have a "renewed emphasis" on electronic warfare, according to Aviation Week."

The Chinese are already operating the J-20, and it appears that if PAF opts for the J-31, they will get it before IAF gets their first fifth gen. So it is very likely that we may go for a few squadrons of the F-35 to counter their buildup. This will give us a leg up on propaganda and the US and Indian govts will get the necessary impetus to build a security partnership as strategic partners. Anyway, I don't believe we are looking at 126 F-35s, at best 2 squadrons direct from American factories as flyaway, like we did with the Rafale.

The IAF has also asked to convert the new tender for MMRCA aircraft into a direct purchase tender in order to cut down the procurement time to just 4 years.

And let's hope that India PAK-FA doesn't look anything like whomever crayoned this setup!
That's just awful, but I like the way 2 pilots were put in lol.

If it ever does find it's way to Egypt 20 years from now lol, I think this would be a much nicer camo than that green leopard above!

IIRC, the two pilots were taken from a Su-30MKI.