Due to dharnas, 4 submarines, 2 jf-17 squardon and more purchases are on hold

[raza1_hamid]

Yaar dharnna and protest ho hi nhi na is Country mai, I mean this is strange

 

[syedali73]

I never supported NS's thuggery either! In fact, I think, starting approx. March 2007 (the Lawyers Movement), the politics of street protests has cost Pakistan untold number of billions and lives.
I was hoping IK would be 'different' but not only he started his agitation too soon he seems to relish the politics of agitation more than even NS. My break with IK happened when he blocked the NATO supplies.

I am pleasantly surprised for you are perhaps the only (or one of handful) poster I have come across on this forum who happens to have the knowledge of the past and more importantly courage of acknowledging it. I don't believe many here don't know what happened in 2007 or 2009 for that is not a very distant past, but unfortunately they never acknowledge and this is what I call intellectual corruption.

As far as IK is concerned, knowing his temperament as the Captain of the Pakistani Cricket team (those of us who were regular readers of Akhbar-e-Watan), I never had high hopes on him. He would never become a statesman, I knew that much but he would make downright stupid mistakes, this I also never anticipated. He was (still is) extremely lucky to have die-hard supporters around him, selfless, young, energetic, and eager to bring about some positive change in Pakistan, but instead of relying and grooming those young lads, he went for the so-called 'electables'. The day he began to accept these elements in his party, I kind of turned away myself from him and PTI. However, I still prayed, really really hard for his winning, for I really was tired of the musical chair game between the PML and PPP. Anyway, as per Murphy's law, "anything that can go wrong will go wrong", and this is where we are now.

 

[Viper0011.]

IK NEVER said no rigging happened in KPK. Please show me one statement from him on this. .

Go through his interviews and speeches on youtube, I have personally heard him say multiple times "the result of a clean election can be seen in KPK with so much progress as the leaders were elected due to "clean" elections. I have ALSO hear the CM of KPK say that many times that his people (KPK's assembly) is very clean and they are the true presenters of the democracy than the federal government and others who came through rigging.

 

[Marshmallow]

Go through his interviews and speeches on youtube, I have personally heard him say multiple times "the result of a clean election can be seen in KPK with so much progress as the leaders were elected due to "clean" elections. I have ALSO hear the CJ of KPK say that many times that his people (KPK's assembly) is very clean and they are the true presenters of the democracy than the federal government and others who came through rigging.

CJ or CM?

 

[Meengla]

I am pleasantly surprised for you are perhaps the only (or one of handful) poster I have come across on this forum who happens to have the knowledge of the past and more importantly courage of acknowledging it. I don't believe many here don't know what happened in 2007 or 2009 for that is not a very distant past, but unfortunately they never acknowledge and this is what I call intellectual corruption.

As far as IK is concerned, knowing his temperament as the Captain of the Pakistani Cricket team (those of us who were regular readers of Akhbar-e-Watan), I never had high hopes on him. He would never become a statesman, I knew that much but he would make downright stupid things, this I also never anticipated. He was (still is) extremely lucky to have die-hard supporters around him, selfless, young, energetic, and eager to bring about some positive change in Pakistan, but instead of relying and grooming those young lads, he went for the so-called 'electables'. The day he began to accept these elements in his party, I kind of turned away myself from him and PTI. However, I still prayed, really really hard for his winning, for I really was tired of the musical chair game between the PML and PPP. Anyway, as per Murphy's law, "anything that can go wrong will go wrong", and this is where we are now.

Bravo! Whole post is well worth reading and pondering.

 

[Viper0011.]

CJ or CM?

Sorry, CM. Thank you for correcting me. Too many acronyms, trying to get used to it

 

[Areesh]

Yes, I got your 'sarcasm'. Really, Imran Khan and his supporters have not hidden their desire to hurt the govt even if it would hurt the state of Pakistan itself: From the exhortation to not pay taxes to sending money via Hundi to boycotting state banks to wishing failure of investment from IMF/UAE these people have been trying hard to be 'heard'.

Their desperation reminds me of Nusrat Bhuttos call to the West to impose sanctions on Pakistan when Benazir Bhutto govt was sacked in 1990.

Some 'Naya Pakistan' in making indeed!

After all if they hurt the state of Pakistan, they are hurting the purana Pakistan. RIP logic.

It is shameful to see such educated people foolishly following someone without thinking about the consequences.

 

[Marshmallow]

I am pleasantly surprised for you are perhaps the only (or one of handful) poster I have come across on this forum who happens to have the knowledge of the past and more importantly courage of acknowledging it. I don't believe many here don't know what happened in 2007 or 2009 for that is not a very distant past, but unfortunately they never acknowledge and this is what I call intellectual corruption.

As far as IK is concerned, knowing his temperament as the Captain of the Pakistani Cricket team (those of us who were regular readers of Akhbar-e-Watan), I never had high hopes on him. He would never become a statesman, I knew that much but he would make downright stupid mistakes, this I also never anticipated. He was (still is) extremely lucky to have die-hard supporters around him, selfless, young, energetic, and eager to bring about some positive change in Pakistan, but instead of relying and grooming those young lads, he went for the so-called 'electables'. The day he began to accept these elements in his party, I kind of turned away myself from him and PTI. However, I still prayed, really really hard for his winning, for I really was tired of the musical chair game between the PML and PPP. Anyway, as per Murphy's law, "anything that can go wrong will go wrong", and this is where we are now.

This is the major reason that many are still supporting PTI even having differences....PMLN and PPP should be kicked out of Politics for a good 10 years atleast!....Trust me things will start getting better if it happens!

 

[Dubious]

Shameful at the least. Only in Pakistan, people put their personal political interests WAY above their nation and country's interest and blame everything on others

Isnt that whats happening ...everything is being blamed on IK? Or is that legit just the opposite isnt?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Fake Prime Minister is DEFAULTER of 19 Banks that is just very little Information as much Information that is revealed 6.1-6.3 Billion Rupees defaulter sharif family is PM and CM and over 2 billion pounds sterling or 365 billion rupees owner nawaz sharif's son that's not enough alot of information has not been revealed.

 

[Ahmad1996]

Whether people from both sides like it or not but the loss to economy is to be blamed on both sides but government would be blamed more, 14 months to tackle IK and 2 months to tackle TUQ yet they did not even said something worth. I blame IK and TUQ for not making a way to get out, if both the 5 points of IK and points of TUQ are implemented they were both worth it and good for Pakistan but the resignation demand has taken everything to a new level. Yes SS should resign as moral authority of Model town goes on him, there should be no doubt that murders were committed by police. But NS resignation was too much and leaving no way out for themselves has caused us so much trouble and damage to economy. They could have gone when government said except resignation we accept all demands and if NS is found guilty then they could have returned to take resignation as then they would have more support and momentum.

Our government also doesn't seems serious in negotiating if they wanted they could have implemented the all the points accept NS resignation and say look we have implemented everything now give us a chance and after enquiry if NS is guilty he will resign etc. Rehman Malik part of negotiating team and Siraj ul Haq they daily come and say democracy should run etc yet they don't bring something solid from the government, something that's implemented, something that will help to move the things forward.

 

[HAIDER]

This dharna is good and show the frustration of poor and giving them platform to show their frustration..................a poor man receive 50,000 Rs electrical bill...................a joke. These filthy rich parliamentarian talking about saving their seats and talking about more loans from China and world bank.

 

[Ahmad1996]

Go through his interviews and speeches on youtube, I have personally heard him say multiple times "the result of a clean election can be seen in KPK with so much progress as the leaders were elected due to "clean" elections. I have ALSO hear the CM of KPK say that many times that his people (KPK's assembly) is very clean and they are the true presenters of the democracy than the federal government and others who came through rigging.

I also haven't heard him saying that but I do know they have kicked ministers even from their own party found doing corruption and if I am right rigging cases in KPK were all heard. So I think it's right to say they do have a better assembly then other provinces.

With 3 ministers suspended, Imran advises K-P govt to end coalition with QWP – The Express Tribune

 

[Faiez]

Its pathetic to see Imran Khan and Tahrirul Qadri did this to their country's beautiful capital Islamabad.

*while completely ignoring what NS governments have done to the economy and society of pakistan....

 

[TankMan]

Alright, let me ask tell you a few things as bullets highlighted above:

What reason do you have to blame the $ 500 billion loss due to IK's protests on NS or ANYONE else for that matter? Show us a proof that the money was supposed to go to NS's (or anyone else's bank accounts). I could care LESS about NS as the discussion isn't around him. Its about the loss that a country took and the responsible party is too busy blaming others. So as you accuse others for such a huge loss, do provide credible proofs that this money was going to get into waste anyway.

You don't even read my posts properly and write an essay about how what you think I said is wrong. Yes, Imran Khan's protests have caused damage to Pakistan's economy, I don't deny that. This $500 Billion figure you keep repeating like a parrot is wrong. Its 500 Billion RUPEES, according to the figure given by Khawaja Saad Rafique who is a PMLN member and Minister of Railways. 500 Billion rupees equal about 5 billion dollars, which is still probably an exaggerated figure.

Show us a proof that the money was supposed to go to NS's (or anyone else's bank accounts).

Its not THAT SPECIFIC money, its money in general. He's been doing corruption for decades now. There's lots of articles, documentaries, investigations. but of course, they're all faked because everyone is conspiring against the poor, clean and good ruler Nawaz Sharif, right?

The economic cost of corruption – The Express Tribune
http://cprenet.com/uploads/archive/IJBBS_12-1145.pdf (its from 2012 during which PMLN was in Punjab and PPP the federal govt. Punjab is the most developed province in Pakistan)
Sharif Bro's corruption.
Raymond Baker’s book on dirty money highlights Nawaz Sharif’s corruption
Corruption ‘costs’ exchequer Rs12b daily

NAWAZ SHARIF’S CORRUPTION | Dilettante
I can go on and on.

The reason I have to blame NS is that a great portion of this loss was from PMLN blocking entire cities to stop the protests. They sealed Model Town for god's sake, they put containers on many, many main roads. That caused the loss. What would've happened if they let the protesters go without making such a mess? Maybe the roads would've been blocked for a whole day, but because of PMLN they were blocked for 6 days, the blockades started at 8th Aug, the protest was on 14th.

According to Dawn News:

Many parts of Lahore and Islamabad have been blocked off with containers; sensitive areas are expected to be without cellular services for the duration of the marches
Aug 14 protests: The march will go on, come what may - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Police also placed containers on all roads leading to prime minister’s Jati Umra residence, besides beefing up security around chief minister’s Model Town residence.

Though the extra ordinary security in Lahore was PAT-specific, police authorities officially said the measures were taken to “avoid any untoward terror incident in the city”.

Traffic congestions were witnessed in areas of Model Town, Gulberg, Johar Town, Garden Town, Faisal Town and on Ferozepur Road, Maulana Shaukat Ali Road, Peco Road and Canal Road. Residents of Model Town and its adjacent localities faced immense problem in reaching their homes.

However, despite all these hurdles, hundreds of male and female PAT activists managed to reach the party secretariat.
Police resort to detentions, block roads to Model Town - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

From the Guardian (UK):

Pakistan has blocked almost every entry point into Islamabad, with more than 20,000 police and paramilitary forces deployed to try to thwart a major anti-government rally.

Major roads were barricaded with shipping containers on Wednesday, and police used excavators to dig up smaller roads, a day before two opposition protest marches are due to converge on the capital.

Islamabad on lockdown as Pakistan opposition leaders plan huge march | World news | theguardian.com

From the Express Tribune:

All main roads, link roads and streets leading towards Qadri’s residence and Secretariat’s surrounding areas were sealed off in the early hours of Tuesday, as an estimated 50 additional shipping containers and barbed wire were placed in the area.

At least 120 containers have been placed at main roads, including Akbar Chowk, Faisal Town roundabout, Mariyan Stop and Barkat Market and all connecting streets. On main roads, where PAT activists removed containers three days ago, the administration has reportedly quadrupled the number of containers, placing them back-to-back.

Dozens of containers were transported overnight to Peco Road, Akbar Chowk, Faisal Town, Model Town, Garden Town, Barkat Market, Jinnah Hospital, Model Town Link Road, and Muhammad Pura (Mochi Pura). The containers have blocked routes leading to Model Town and M Block, where Qadri’s residence is situated.

Off limits: Lahore’s Model Town under siege – The Express Tribune

I lived in Pakistan for long enough to know how much loss this kind of blockades could cause.
People still reached and people still protested. These blockades just delayed them. If it wasn't for these blockades and extreme measures taken by PMLN to save their own arses, policemen and normal people wouldn't have died and the economic loss would have been multiple times less.

BTW, say for a second, this money was still going to be burnt or thrown from a hill, it would STILL not have caused some innocents to die, hundreds to get hurt and Pakistan to get a huge reputation hit globally. So no matter how you try to "justify" the waste, it can NOT be justified. The dead are dead and the injured will remain that way till they heal up. And the loss will always be a loss. With 500 Billion, you could've bought many JFT or used -16's and still build every single IDP family a small new home, helping you curb talibanization big times by helping these people from FATA. No matter what reason you bring out, you can't change the facts. However, do give us a proof as I explained above.

Yeah, so this can't be justified, but the Model Town incident (in which police killed 14 people and wounded dozens more) can be justified? Plus the innocents who died were killed by police when they let them pass and then shelled them from both sides.
And you think they would have done all of that, built homes in FATA and for the IDPs? If so, then why hasn't Nawaz Sharif done this during his previous terms or during the one year he got? Who was marching and protesting then?

You said "what are IK's personal interests"? and that "He doesn't want to be a PM". Well, his personal interests are the same like majority of narcissistic people like him, that is to get the power. For the first few days till the Parliament attack and the TV attack didn't produce results, there were CONSTANT chanting on the loud speakers of "Prime Minister IK" and all and he said it a few times himself, along with a few of his party leaders (Videos are available on youtube if you care to search).

This is a lie. I used the following search terms, not just on Youtube but on Dailymotion and other video sites too: "Imran Khan Prime minister", "Imran Khan Rally PM" , "Prime Minister Khan", "Prime minister IK"

He said once: "Prime Minister Imran Khan will never lie to you", which meant that if he was Prime Minister he wouldn't have lied like NS does. I found nothing else like that. I watched a lot of the dharnas on live TV, no "chanting Prime Minister IK" was ever there. Disagree with me, fine. But don't blatantly lie like that.

Imran Khan wants an investigation to be held which can not be influenced by Nawaz Sharif, after which another election will be held. He's not planning to just overthrow Nawaz and become PM, it doesn't work that way. Where do you get your news, Geo?

So is the fact that "he didn't want to be a PM" OR he realized his political future's dead and having no face saving and seeing a party break due to Parliament and TV attack, he realized he's lost the entire game and due to which, he stopped mentioning that?
(PTI is on the verge of collapse as we speak, you'll see how it breaks in the next few weeks. There are MANY politicians within PTI who are democratic and hated the fact that they had to resign and then didn't even 1% agree with attacking the parliament and the TV station).

The TV attack were not PTI. PTI was behind PAT when the violence happened and it was haphazard and chaotic, not planned like you would like to believe. Parliament "attack" was stopped when a couple of Army officers with a loudspeaker told protesters to stay back and they did. It wasn't an attack, people were running from the shelling. According to you, everything wrong that ever happened was planned by IK for "results". How am I supposed to take this seriously? I won't be surprised when you say that Model Town incident was planned by IK too.

Sri Lankan president's trip, Turkish president's trip were cancelled due to these failed protests and that's a huge embarrassment to any country. The Chinese president isn't coming from a small country, its a super power now.

Like our President Obama, the Chinese president has a huge security clearance process too. Unless ALL security details are built, agreed to and an entire process is mapped out, no one confirms their visit (unless they are going to Europe which is as secure as the US itself). So EVERYONE knew that there were a few Chinese teams on the ground gathering up security details to map out a security envelop. That didn't happen due to IK's crap and they called it off. And of course, all this wasn't "confirmed" as there was no security clearance!! Learn the process before writing macho statements about it.

You have points here, so fine, lets say it's all IK's fault, that's why Chinese president couldn't come. Its not like Nawaz Sharif could have prevented this by opening just 4 damn constituencies 3 months back. If the visit process was so long, why didn't Nawaz think about all that when he ignored Imran Khan's threats for the past 4 months? Imran Khan was wrong, the time for protests wasn't right. Nawaz should have thought about that before.

By the way the Turkish president wasn't supposed to come, Nawaz was supposed to go there. He sent President Mamnoon Hussain instead, so that isn't a total loss.

Why do you think IK just decided to move to the previous location? PLEASE don't tell me he listened to the Supreme Court as he's violated a lot of laws and the entire constitution constantly. It was the military who told him to take his sorry as*s elsewhere as this drama had caused a LOT of defense procurements to stop and a lot of projects got put on hold. On one call, without questioning, he agreed. This is a level of this guy referred to as the "leader" here by some.

"The Entire constitution", as if Nawaz cares about it.
LOL, you think moving the dharna a few metres away would have affected defense procurements in any way?

What other options does Pakistan have? Imran Khan is a better leader than Nawaz or Zardari or Qadri or Altaf Hussain. Until we get a better leader, I'm either with Imran Khan or with no one.

Human lives were lost, hundreds injured and over 500 BILLION worth of loss.......and here some are trying to justify such an abuse of the entire nation and international embarrassment !

Pakistan has lost thousands of billions to Nawaz Sharif's corruption, 14 people have been murdered and the elections were rigged. And yet here are some who haven't even lived in the country, against protesting and are trying to defend this fat thief who has been robbing the public for decades.

The point is, all this FAILED drama, couldn't have happened elsewhere? Like around Zero point (ideal place) or in Pinde and all? If this was supposed to be a "Peaceful" protest, it could've happened elsewhere. But it was ALL a big lie, it NEEDED to happen there as the Parliament was there and so was other installations which were going to get attacked.......so who's at fault here? For this part, IK and Mullah, for all killed, hundreds injured and over 500 billion lost, its these two.

How do you solve an issue by violating the constitution, by getting people killed and damaging the country? Do you think IK has ANY role left in the future for him? You think people are stupid and they don't see how shameful loss this entire thing has been?
His own party members that are democratic want him replaced and they are breaking away. Does that not tell you something???

If it happened anywhere else, Nawaz wouldn't have cared, the same way he doesn't care now. "going to get attacked", keep repeating that and close your eyes when I show you videos of police letting people through and then shelling them from both sides.

Yes, that tells me something. That Imran Khan is not good enough to save Pakistan from the hands of the corrupt people that have it and that Pakistan will suffer until we get another leader (who people like you will continue to oppose).

I don't think anyone by doing corruption has ever or can ever cause 500 billion worth of loss to this country. That title goes to IK and Mullah

Keep telling yourself that. "500 billion", "500 billion", "500 billion".

The economic cost of corruption – The Express Tribune
http://cprenet.com/uploads/archive/IJBBS_12-1145.pdf (its from 2012 during which PMLN was in Punjab and PPP the federal govt. Punjab is the most developed province in Pakistan)
Sharif Bro's corruption.
Raymond Baker’s book on dirty money highlights Nawaz Sharif’s corruption
Corruption ‘costs’ exchequer Rs12b daily

NAWAZ SHARIF’S CORRUPTION | Dilettante