What's new

Dual Standards in Pakistan

Skeptic

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
0
Country
India
Location
India
Mastering The Language of Strength

I am getting increasingly tired of people — well-meaning Indians and not so well-meaning Americans mainly — telling us that we have to look at the problem of terrorism from Pakistan’s point of view. We should accept, we are told, that we have not given Pakistan any proof about Hafiz Saeed or the 26/11 plotters that will stand up in a court of law.

Besides, we are advised, we cannot expect the Pakistanis to hand over terrorists to a country like India against whom there is so much public sentiment. Moreover, India is interfering in Pakistan’s internal affairs and its area of influence. It is arming Balochis and establishing a presence in Afghanistan. In the circumstances, we should accept that Pakistan has gone as far as it can in meeting our demands.

The most annoying thing about these arguments is that they seem superficially reasonable. Surely, as a liberal democracy, India must respect the rule of law and understand the need to provide proof. Can’t we accept that Pakistani public opinion is against us and so the Pakistani government must tread carefully? How can Pakistan stand by and watch while we establish a presence in Balochistan? And so on.

But, of course, none of this is really reasonable. And the best way to demonstrate this is to look at the way Pakistan has responded to the Western war on terror. In that case, completely different standards apply.

Let’s take the issue of proof first. Responsible Indians such as Home Minister P. Chidambaram say that we have handed over more than enough evidence about Hafiz Saeed. Plus, our intelligence agencies insist that there is a full dossier packed with evidence against the 26/11 plotters.

Nevertheless, let’s accept, for the purposes of argument, that Chidambaram and the Indian government are lying. Let’s take the Pakistani claim that there is no proof that will stand up in a court of law against these people at face value.

But now, let’s cast our mind back to a few years ago when America launched its reprisals for 9/11. At the time, the only evidence against Osama bin Laden consisted of intelligence chatter and speculation. There was no concrete proof at all.

And yet, George W. Bush was able to say that America wanted bin Laden ‘dead or alive’. The Pakistanis did not for a moment dispute America’s right to apprehend bin Laden. There was not even one cheep about proof or evidence from Islamabad.

Further, over the last few years, Pakistan has turned over a steady stream of al-Qaeda officials and sympathisers to the US without bothering to make any case in the law courts. And America has been content to lock all of these people up in such prisons as Guantanamo Bay without worrying about the need to prove a case or hold trials.

How is it that when it comes to people who attack America or the West, there is no question of proof, of the need for evidence or the will of the law courts?


Why do these considerations only emerge when it comes to people who kill Indians? You could argue, as some Pakistanis do, that you cannot compare America and India because public sentiment is so strongly aligned against India that any Pakistani government that cooperated with Indian investigators would be in trouble with the people.

But first of all, this argument amounts to accepting that there are different standards for those who attack America and those who kill Indians. It only offers a justification for those double standards. And secondly, it’s not even true.

Every single poll that has been taken in Pakistan over the last six years will tell you how much the Pakistani people hate America and Americans. The vast majority do not believe in the legitimacy of the so-called American war on terror. And a majority actually support Osama bin Laden.

And yet, when it comes to handing over terror suspects to the hated Americans, the Pakistani government cheerfully ignores public opinion. This excuse is reserved for India.

The stuff about interference in Pakistan’s internal affairs is as unconvincing. Even if Pakistani claims about R&AW’s involvement in arming Balochi rebels are to be accepted, this hardly constitutes massive interference in the internal affairs of Pakistan.

On the other hand, what the US Army is doing is certainly a massive blow to Pakistani sovereignty. American forces roam around the tribal areas openly engaging in battles with Pakistanis and American drones routinely bomb Pakistani targets. This is not a mere allegation like the one about R&AW and Balochistan. It is a well-documented fact that nobody contests.

And yet, have you ever seen a Pakistani leader demanding that a joint statement issued at the end of a summit with the US includes a reference to America’s interference in Pakistan’s internal affairs?

So it is with Afghanistan. We claim that our involvement there is of a humanitarian nature. The Pakistanis say that we should have no involvement whatsoever. Afghanistan is part of their sphere of influence.

Even if you were to accept the ludicrous Pakistani position on Afghanistan, what about America’s involvement in that troubled nation? American and British soldiers are actively engaged in waging war in Afghanistan.

Do you hear a single Pakistani diplomat complaining about how England and America have no right to be in Afghanistan because it is part of Pakistan’s sphere of influence?

Why is it that Pakistan has one set of standards for the West and another for India? As we have seen, it can’t be because Pakistanis love America.

The only answer possible is: they fear America; they fear its clout; they fear its strength.

According to President Musharraf himself, the Americans threatened to bomb Pakistan back into the Stone Age if it did not cooperate with the so-called war on terror. This so terrified Musharraf that Pakistan swiftly dumped its Taliban allies and quickly fell in line.

Like all sensible people, I have no desire to see India go to war with Pakistan. Nor do I believe that diplomacy between neighbours should be conducted on the basis of threats. India and Pakistan have to learn to co-exist.

But when you consider the differing responses that Pakistan has given to America and India, you cannot escape one conclusion: the language that Islamabad understands best is the language of strength.
 
.
Don't get perturbed.

Things are not always as they appear. The right noises have to be made. Its something like attending a " official" party where we all need to appear polite & solicitous.

The duck appears so calm & serene- what is not visible is the furious paddling that it does beneath the water - always.
 
.
Skeptic listen to third eye.

Rest you or some of your other countryman had posted the same topic on an other Pakistani defence forum and we have beaten the topic to death.

This is childish attitude to compare India with US.

Every country has policies which are based on their own intrets. In the world politics there is no such thing called equal standard nor ethics.

India did stabbed Iran when it came to Indian intrests, India did annoyed long-time ally Russia by signing nuke deal with US when it came to Indian intrests.

So do we. so its just an immature attitude to say if Pakistan accepted US demands we should accept Indian demands too which i think never should be.
 
.
Skeptic listen to third eye.
I can read...

Rest you or some of your other countryman had posted the same topic on an other Pakistani defence forum and we have beaten the topic to death.

I am not aware on which other forum you were busy beating topics to death, I do have certain other things to do apart from browsing and reading your arguments. I found the article interesting, and posted it here if you have issues with that, kindly report the post or write in to MODs. I did not see this posted on defence.pk, and thought it was well within my rights to post it.

This is childish attitude to compare India with US.

Every country has policies which are based on their own intrets. In the world politics there is no such thing called equal standard nor ethics.
It is not simply comparinf India with US, it is just to underline how hollow some of the arguments are.

India did stabbed Iran when it came to Indian intrests, India did annoyed long-time ally Russia by signing nuke deal with US when it came to Indian intrests.

So do we. so its just an immature attitude to say if Pakistan accepted US demands we should accept Indian demands too which i think never should be.
How is Iran / Russia even comparable. Although I'd beg to differ from your conclusions. It is not about responding to demands, its about attitude towards Terrorism.

I'd take your comment as more like admission of the dual standards rather than rebuttal of the argument.
 
.
I can read...



It is not simply comparinf India with US, it is just to underline how hollow some of the arguments are.


How is Iran / Russia even comparable. Although I'd beg to differ from your conclusions. It is not about responding to demands, its about attitude towards Terrorism.

I'd take your comment as more like admission of the dual standards rather than rebuttal of the argument.


It is all about own policies. India has double standards viz a viz foreign policy towards different countries so do we and every other country. Simple as that
As far as attitude torwards terrorism then my dear India has been practicing dual attitude viz a viz shelttering Tamil terrorists, funding them and creating them to spread terrorism in Sri Lanka.

It all depends on your policies.
If you think any country in the world should treat India as they treate US then its just a wishful thinking.
 
.
jana bi bi ji you're complety misunderstood!

India - Iran relation & indo- US nuclear deal has nothing to with terrorist attack like 26/11.

That's true India is free to change her foreign policy as per country intrest but Indian government are not sending Indian Muslim or Hindus terrorist to Pakistan to kill innocent people. Where as in Pakistan foriegn policy terrorism is a very important tool especially against India. Sorry for my poor English
 
.
jana bi bi ji you're complety misunderstood!

India - Iran relation & indo- US nuclear deal has nothing to with terrorist attack like 26/11.

That's true India is free to change her foreign policy as per country intrest but Indian government are not sending Indian Muslim or Hindus terrorist to Pakistan to kill innocent people. Where as in Pakistan foriegn policy terrorism is a very important tool especially against India. Sorry for my poor English
Would you mind showing any proof that Pakistani State Government sent Ajmal and his partners for 26/11 attacks?Or just pulling it out of your ***.
 
.
jana bi bi ji you're complety misunderstood!

India - Iran relation & indo- US nuclear deal has nothing to with terrorist attack like 26/11.

That's true India is free to change her foreign policy as per country intrest but Indian government are not sending Indian Muslim or Hindus terrorist to Pakistan to kill innocent people. Where as in Pakistan foriegn policy terrorism is a very important tool especially against India. Sorry for my poor English


Oh man Indian government had been sending Sarabjits for terroris in Pakistan, Indian govt is shelttering BLA terrorists and funding them for spreading terrorism in Balochistan province of Pakistan.

The indo-Iran or Indo-US relations came in context of intrest based policies. Your indian author is crying why we do not treat India as we treat US.

Why should we treat india equaly as we do treat US??

Give me one solid reason.

India had been and continues to harm Pakistan, sorry we can not treat India equally
 
.
Would you mind showing any proof that Pakistani State Government sent Ajmal and his partners for 26/11 attacks?Or just pulling it out of your ***.

Yeh they have 11,000 pages :woot: firstever dossier which followed by 4 more
 
. .
As far as attitude torwards terrorism then my dear India has been practicing dual attitude viz a viz shelttering Tamil terrorists, funding them and creating them to spread terrorism in Sri Lanka

Highly debatable. And you simply skipped all the action IPKF had in SL.

It all depends on your policies.
If you think any country in the world should treat India as they treate US then its just a wishful thinking.
Point taken that you have different policies towards different nations, but there is always a rationale behind those policies. if the comparasion was between India and China, It would be swayed obviously in favour of China because of general public opinion being favourable. US as pointed out in the article itself, is loathed as much if not more than India by Pakistani. This brings to the only conclusion, which is also made in the article - the language that Islamabad understands best is the language of strength.
The indo-Iran or Indo-US relations came in context of intrest based policies. Your indian author is crying why we do not treat India as we treat US.
He is not crying for equal treatment of India and US, he is crying over to unequal treatment of Terrorists commiting crimes against americans and terrorists commiting crimes against Indians.

Why should we treat india equaly as we do treat US??
Then justify your bending over backwards to feed US intrests despite public opinion n the contrary. Any other justification besides its super-power status.
Would you mind showing any proof that Pakistani State Government sent Ajmal and his partners for 26/11 attacks?Or just pulling it out of your ***.
Where does it mention in the article about state sponsored terrorists. Providing protection to these terrorists does infact shows indifference of GoP.
 
.
Maybe the Indians ought to say in a, as the Israeli Rabin said, "in a loud and clear voice" that it will bomb Pakistan into the stone age - and then maybe it will get the response it imagines it wants.

Alternately, Maybe the Indian can evacuate from kashmir, cease being a spoiler in Afghanistan, enter into a genuine partnership based on shared interests, with Pakistan and get the kind of response it it imagines it wants.

Indian thinks that Pakistan relationship with US is something for nothing, perhaps this flawed premise is the source of annoyance the author othe lead piece "feels". Think more, feel less.
 
.
1. Indian involvement in Pakistan and its history is not ignorable.
2. India can never be compared with US
3. For extradition both the countries should have a treaty first. India has to give Pakistan its wanted people. Don't you think proofs would matter.
4. Majority of Pakistani never supported OBL. You don't live in Pakistan so you don't know. Even your polls would not suggest that.
5. In international system strength and power matter as it always has. Not only Pakistan even India being a country in Intl systems understands this language. It goes for both.
 
.
1. Indian involvement in Pakistan and its history is not ignorable.

Yeah and Drone attacks are defenitely ignorable. US has no intervention in Pakistan... Are you sure of that.

2. India can never be compared with US
Muse advised to "Think" and not "Feel". That applies to you as well.

3. For extradition both the countries should have a treaty first. India has to give Pakistan its wanted people. Don't you think proofs would matter.
Treaty will take some decades to come by Should we wait for these terrorists to die of natural causes?

4. Majority of Pakistani never supported OBL. You don't live in Pakistan so you don't know. Even your polls would not suggest that.
NEVER.. is a very strong word use it sparingly. I can quote several surverys on the contrary, but then you will call it american propoganda.

5. In international system strength and power matter as it always has. Not only Pakistan even India being a country in Intl systems understands this language. It goes for both.
Okay, then say openly that Pakistan feeds to American demands only because of its super-power status.
 
.
Yeah and Drone attacks are defenitely ignorable. US has no intervention in Pakistan... Are you sure of that.
Did I say that its ignorable?

Treaty will take some decades to come by Should we wait for these terrorists to die of natural causes?

Lets prove them terrorists first. By the way will you hand over terrorists wanted to Pakistan without treaty.

NEVER.. is a very strong word use it sparingly. I can quote several surverys on the contrary, but then you will call it american propoganda.

I am a Pakistani and i know it better. but for the sack of argument search the recent surveys.

Okay, then say openly that Pakistan feeds to American demands only because of its super-power status.

Of course. I am not a naive.
one thing more its never double standard when it comes to inter state relations its rather multilateral or multifaceted based on interests, threats etc.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom