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Drone Strike Civilian Death Analysis

I agree. As to violations of your sovereignty, the most egregious violators are the very people that the drone strikes are trying to take out. In reality the GoP is not sovereign in the places where drone strikes occur. The USA does respect the sovereignty of the parts of Pakistan that are, in fact, under effective GoP control. The way to stop drone strikes is to achieve Pakistani sovereignty over FATA.
Sir, we are mixing claiming sovereignty and showing effective sovereignty. We have regained control over a huge chunk of FATA, and are on our way to achieving the rest. We can't be expected to show effective sovereignty over all of FATA and still allow attacks from foreign forces on that land. That is the paradoxical. The only possible solution is that we be given control of these drones, so that we may strike ourselves. Especially now, with the ISAF being open to talks with Taliban, there should be absolutly no hurdles in the transfer of UCAV technology to Pakistan (unless the United States is more concerned about its relations with India than doing what is best for Afghanistan). And yet, your military continues to deny us this basic need, and continues to carry out these strikes that have very little support within the country, despite what some of my countrymen would like you to believe.

To show effective sovereignty we must first bring the region under control. Strikes by American drones are counter-productive to this cause, but strikes by Pakistani forces reinforce it. My Pakistani brothers above may see it as a price worth paying, i.e., softening the stance on sovereignty as long as the right people are killed. However, they neglect to consider the short and longer term backlash. We can never truly fly the Pakistani flag in that region unless we earn and exert that right.

Of course, the timely deaths of Baitullah and, allegedly, Hakimulla will give those who support drone strikes an added point of argument. Maybe they believe the results justify the means, but it has been this exact way of thinking that landed us in this mess to begin with. But unfortunately, the lack of self-respect and self-worth displayed by some Pakistanis is appalling.
 
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Analysis: A look at US airstrikes in Pakistan through September 2009

By Bill Roggio and Alexander Mayer
October 1, 2009 12:38 AM
Long War Journal



Despite the sharp increase in both the frequency and total number of casualties resulting from Predator strikes since mid-2008, civilian casualties have remained very low. Naturally, it is difficult to determine the exact number of civilians killed in Predator strikes for many reasons - including intentional exaggeration by Taliban spokesmen, and vague accounts by Pakistani media sources which frequently report that a certain number of "people" were killed in a strike, but rarely offer a follow-up report identifying which victims were civilians and which were militants. However, it is possible to get a rough estimate of civilian casualties by adding up the number of civilians reported killed from the media accounts of each attack. According to this method, a total of 94 civilians were reported killed as a result of all strikes between 2006 and September 29, 2009.
Considering that drone strikes have resulted in 979 total casualties during that same time period, our numbers show that only 9.6% of the casualties reported have been identified as civilians. While our number is undoubtedly a low estimate, this extremely small percentage suggests that the accuracy and precision of these strikes have improved along with the increased pace of these strikes over the past few years.

The US air campaign in Pakistan has focused almost exclusively on the tribal agencies of North and South Waziristan. Of the total of 88 strikes in Pakistan, 78 strikes, or 88.6 percent, have struck targets in North Waziristan (36 strikes) and South Waziristan (42 strikes). This trend has only increased after the US branched out and struck several targets outside those two tribal agencies during the fall of 2008 and winter of 2009. Since the April 1, 2009 strike in Arakzai, all 30 of the subsequent strikes have been in North and South Waziristan.

The vast majority of the US attacks inside Pakistan have focused on areas under the control of five influential leaders. Twenty-three percent of the attacks (20 attacks total) took place in Baitullah Mehsud's tribal areas. This number rose dramatically since the spring of 2008, when only 10 percent of the attacks hit in Baitullah's tribal areas. This drastic increase reflects the US effort to kill Baitullah, who, as leader of the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, remained closely allied with al Qaeda and sought to bring down the Pakistani state. Since Baitullah's death in August of 2009, Waliur Rehman Mehsud has taken control of Baitullah's territories in South Waziristan, and Hakeemullah Mehsud has taken command of the overall Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan.

The territories of South Waziristan Taliban chieftain Mullah Nazir were also hit 20 times (23 percent of the strikes). The Haqqani Network rounded out the top three, with 22 percent of the strikes (19 strikes total) taking place in their territories. North Waziristan leaders Abu Kasha al Iraqi (eight strikes) and Hafiz Gul Bahadar (five strikes) finish out the top five. In all, nearly 81 percent of the strikes targeted the territories of these five tribal leaders.

First and foremost, the primary objective of the air campaign has been to disrupt al Qaeda’s external network and prevent the group from striking at the US and her allies. The campaign has targeted camps known to house foreigners as well as trainers and leaders for the network. Al Qaeda operatives known to have lived in the West and holding foreign passports have been killed in several Predator strikes. One such strike on an al Qaeda camp in South Waziristan on Aug. 30, 2008, killed two Canadian passport holders as they trained in the camp. Also, Abu Sulayman Jazairi, the former chief of al Qaeda’s external operations branch, was killed in a strike on May 14, 2008.

Another major objective has been to disrupt the Taliban operations in Afghanistan. The Taliban in Afghanistan receive significant support from within Pakistan. Taliban groups that are very active against Coalition forces in Afghanistan, such as the Haqqani Network, the Mehsud Taliban, and Mullah Nazir, have flourished in Pakistan's lawless tribal areas. The US has targeted both Taliban leaders and fighters during these strikes. Several large Taliban training camps that are known to train fighters for the Afghan front have been the targets of attack. For instance, a training camp in Kurram operated by an Afghan Taliban commander was hit on Feb. 16, 2009.
Along with targeting al Qaeda's external operations network and the Taliban's Afghan operations in Pakistan, the US has also targeted Pakistani Taliban commanders who threaten the stability of the Pakistani state. The US hunted Baitullah Mehsud for a year before killing him in a strike in early August of 2009. The US has an interest in preventing nuclear Pakistan from becoming a failed state and needs to keep its supply lines through Pakistan and into Afghanistan open. More than 70 percent of the US and NATO supplies travel through Pakistan's northwest.

Analysis: A look at US airstrikes in Pakistan through September 2009 - The Long War Journal
I disagree with the 2008/2007 statistics. I don't think they ever killed more civilians than Taliban, since lets face it, The drones give you a nice ability to sneak up, watch whats going on, make a decision, have a cup of tea and then go in for a kill.

But we've heard about how the US relied upon local goons to throw homing beacons next to houses in the initial period to identify the Taliban. Initially they did, but soon after when they ran out of known Taliban, they started throwing them randomly.

Somebody wrote about this as well, old article, will need to pull it up.

Overall the drones have done a good job, but c'mon lets not overly sugar coat it like this analysis has done.
 
TruthSeeker, how can anybody be so sure that the killed was Al-Qaeda or civilian? Don't you think tha any article or piece of reporting that claims to know, distinctly, the numbers and their layout would be biased to begin with?
Even if AQ weren't a myth then still 3 of its members were killed among 123 civilians. Question is knowing the civilian massacre fully well, why is the war party continuing such cruel and inhumane game? My take is that it's a part of creating a new Pushtinistan policy. They are frustrating Pakistani pashtun by presistingly doing it along with pushing PAK army to go over against them in one hand; But the other side of the border they are starting to mediate Talib. So, when they along with IND start the final game (attacking PAK-mil), Pushtuns wouldn't show any loyality to PAK State anymore. It's the repeatation of another "Bangladesh creation" game with much higher vigor with more resource, shrewd planning and cunningness; all in all it's a classic divide and rule game IMO. Wake up PAK-Mil. Game is up,

Pakistan: US drones killed 123 civilians, three al-Qaeda men in

January
By Amir Mir


February 01, 2010


LAHORE: Afghanistan-based US predators carried out a record number of 12 deadly missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan in January 2010, of which 10 went wrong and failed to hit their targets, killing 123 innocent Pakistanis. The remaining two successful drone strikes killed three al-Qaeda leaders, wanted by the Americans.

The rapid increase in the US drone attacks in the Pakistani tribal areas bordering Afghanistan can be gauged from the fact that only two such strikes were carried out in January 2009, which killed 36 people. The highest number of drone attacks carried out in a single month in 2009 was six, which were conducted in December last year. But the dawn of the New Year has already seen a dozen such attacks.

The unprecedented rise in the predator strikes with the beginning of the year 2010 is being attributed to December 30, 2009 suicide bombing in the Khost area of Afghanistan bordering North Waziristan, which killed seven CIA agents. US officials later identified the bomber as Humam Khalil Abu Mulal al-Balawi, a Jordanian national linked to both al-Qaeda and the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

In a subsequent posthumous video tape released by Al-Jazeera, Balawi claimed while sitting next to TTP Chief Commander Hakimullah Mehsud that he would blow himself up in the CIA base to avenge the killing of former TTP chief Baitullah Mehsud in a US drone attack. The consequent increase in US strikes, first in North Waziristan and then South Waziristan, specifically targeting the fugitive TTP chief Hakimullah Mehsud clearly shows that revenge is the major motive for these attacks. The US intelligence sleuths stationed in Afghanistan are convinced the Khost suicide attack was planned in Waziristan with the help of the TTP. Therefore, it is believed Afghanistan-based American drones will continue to hunt the most wanted al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders, especially Hakimullah, with a view to avenge the loss of the seven CIA agents and to raise morale of its forces in Afghanistan.

According to the data compiled by the interior ministry, the first US drone strike was conducted on January 1 which struck a vehicle near Ghundikala village in North Waziristan and killed four people. The second attack came on January 3, targeting the Mosakki village in North Waziristan, killing five people. Two separate missile strikes carried out on January 6 killed 35 people in Sanzalai village of North Waziristan. The fifth predator attack was carried out on January 8 in the Tappi village of North Waziristan, killing five people. The sixth attack on January 9 in Ismail Khan village of North Waziristan killed four people, including two al-Qaeda leaders. Mahmoud Mehdi Zeidan, the bodyguard for al-Qaeda leader Sayeed al-Masri, and Jamal Saeed Abdul Rahim, who had been involved in hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 in 1986, were reportedly killed in this missile strike.

The seventh US attack on January 14 in the Pasalkot village of North Waziristan killed 15 people, amidst rumours Hakimullah Mehsud could be among the dead.

The eighth drone attack came on January 15 in the Zannini village near Mir Ali in North Waziristan, killing 14 people, including an al-Qaeda-linked terrorist, Abdul Basit Usman, a Filipino wanted by the Americans. The ninth strike was carried out on January 17 in the Shaktoi area of South Waziristan, which killed 23 people. The tenth drone attack came on January 19 when two missiles were fired at a compound and vehicle in Booya village of Datakhel subdivision, 35km west of Miramshah, in North Waziristan, killing eight people. The eleventh strike carried out on January 29 targeting a compound belonging to the Haqqani network in the Muhammad Khel town of North Waziristan, killed six people. The twelfth and the last predator attack of the month came on January 30, killing nine people in the Lend Mohammad Khel area of North Waziristan.

US drones killed 123 civilians, three al-Qaeda men in January
 
Even if AQ weren't a myth then still 3 of its members were killed among 123 civilians. Question is knowing the civilian massacre fully well, why is the war party continuing such cruel and inhumane game? My take is that it's a part of creating a new Pushtinistan policy. They are frustrating Pakistani pashtun by presistingly doing it along with pushing PAK army to go over against them in one hand; But the other side of the border they are starting to mediate Talib. So, when they along with IND start the final game (attacking PAK-mil), Pushtuns wouldn't show any loyality to PAK State anymore. It's the repeatation of another "Bangladesh creation" game with much higher vigor with more resource, shrewd planning and cunningness; all in all it's a classic divide and rule game IMO. Wake up PAK-Mil. Game is up,

Pakistan: US drones killed 123 civilians, three al-Qaeda men in

January
By Amir Mir


February 01, 2010


LAHORE: Afghanistan-based US predators carried out a record number of 12 deadly missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan in January 2010, of which 10 went wrong and failed to hit their targets, killing 123 innocent Pakistanis. The remaining two successful drone strikes killed three al-Qaeda leaders, wanted by the Americans.

The rapid increase in the US drone attacks in the Pakistani tribal areas bordering Afghanistan can be gauged from the fact that only two such strikes were carried out in January 2009, which killed 36 people. The highest number of drone attacks carried out in a single month in 2009 was six, which were conducted in December last year. But the dawn of the New Year has already seen a dozen such attacks.

The unprecedented rise in the predator strikes with the beginning of the year 2010 is being attributed to December 30, 2009 suicide bombing in the Khost area of Afghanistan bordering North Waziristan, which killed seven CIA agents. US officials later identified the bomber as Humam Khalil Abu Mulal al-Balawi, a Jordanian national linked to both al-Qaeda and the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

In a subsequent posthumous video tape released by Al-Jazeera, Balawi claimed while sitting next to TTP Chief Commander Hakimullah Mehsud that he would blow himself up in the CIA base to avenge the killing of former TTP chief Baitullah Mehsud in a US drone attack. The consequent increase in US strikes, first in North Waziristan and then South Waziristan, specifically targeting the fugitive TTP chief Hakimullah Mehsud clearly shows that revenge is the major motive for these attacks. The US intelligence sleuths stationed in Afghanistan are convinced the Khost suicide attack was planned in Waziristan with the help of the TTP. Therefore, it is believed Afghanistan-based American drones will continue to hunt the most wanted al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders, especially Hakimullah, with a view to avenge the loss of the seven CIA agents and to raise morale of its forces in Afghanistan.

According to the data compiled by the interior ministry, the first US drone strike was conducted on January 1 which struck a vehicle near Ghundikala village in North Waziristan and killed four people. The second attack came on January 3, targeting the Mosakki village in North Waziristan, killing five people. Two separate missile strikes carried out on January 6 killed 35 people in Sanzalai village of North Waziristan. The fifth predator attack was carried out on January 8 in the Tappi village of North Waziristan, killing five people. The sixth attack on January 9 in Ismail Khan village of North Waziristan killed four people, including two al-Qaeda leaders. Mahmoud Mehdi Zeidan, the bodyguard for al-Qaeda leader Sayeed al-Masri, and Jamal Saeed Abdul Rahim, who had been involved in hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 in 1986, were reportedly killed in this missile strike.

The seventh US attack on January 14 in the Pasalkot village of North Waziristan killed 15 people, amidst rumours Hakimullah Mehsud could be among the dead.

The eighth drone attack came on January 15 in the Zannini village near Mir Ali in North Waziristan, killing 14 people, including an al-Qaeda-linked terrorist, Abdul Basit Usman, a Filipino wanted by the Americans. The ninth strike was carried out on January 17 in the Shaktoi area of South Waziristan, which killed 23 people. The tenth drone attack came on January 19 when two missiles were fired at a compound and vehicle in Booya village of Datakhel subdivision, 35km west of Miramshah, in North Waziristan, killing eight people. The eleventh strike carried out on January 29 targeting a compound belonging to the Haqqani network in the Muhammad Khel town of North Waziristan, killed six people. The twelfth and the last predator attack of the month came on January 30, killing nine people in the Lend Mohammad Khel area of North Waziristan.

US drones killed 123 civilians, three al-Qaeda men in January

This is utter nonsense.

This is not news reporting or journalism but sheer anti-american propoganda written for those who are already anti-american which further serves to reinforce this image.

The Drones have been devastatingly effective and civilian casualties have been kept to a minimum.

Most of the dead are the Taliban Rats and Al Qaeda Terrorists.

People who live in the tribal areas actually support the drone attacks because they have been so effective in killing these animals.

I don't care if Pakistan comes out with a news report that every single person killed in these drone attacks are innocent.

It will remain utter nonsense.

These drone attacks are carefully planned and targeted. The potential targets are followed for days and proper intelligence gathering is done before the drones attack.

That is why they have been so successful in taking out major terrorist targets.

Only an Idiot would believe this report

:pakistan::usflag:
 
This survey by Ms. Farhat Taj was conducted in FATA last spring. It merits re-reading by most here-

Drone Attacks-A Survey/The NEWS March 5, 2009

She bravely contradicts the buzz of those who are the witting or unwitting mouthpieces of the taliban narrative.

She did so again three weeks ago in this op-ed. I doubt most here will read it but they should if they are genuinely interested in this issue-

DRONE Attacks-Challenging Some Fabrications- Farhat Taj DAILY TIMES Jan. 2, 2010

Irfan Husain of DAWN heard her message and elaborates eloquently and powerfully here-

Howling At The Moon-Irfan Husain DAWN Jan. 9, 2010

I had an interesting conversation late Saturday night with a college student living in Islamabad but from the tribal territories. I can't give his name but I'll reproduce his commentary below-

"I also hail from the area near to Wazirastan in Pakistan but currently, I'm based in Islamabad, student of M.Sc. in Quaid-I-Azam University, Islamabad. I'm more au fait with the ground facts but unfortunately, there are few journalists like Farhat Taj who are very daringly writing on this issue. People of Wazirastan feel to have been sandwiched between TTP and PA. They neither trust TTP nor PA..."

HELLFIRE is an anti-tank missile that's been repeatedly verified as IMMENSELY accurate. It unerringly strikes at which it is aimed. The notion that 10 of 12 recent missiles missed their intended target is the comfort of fools and the refuge of irhabist apologists.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
The only possible solution is that we be given control of these drones, so that we may strike ourselves.

I think at this point with the divergence of national interests vis a' vis post-ISAF Afghanistan, the USA would not fully relinquish control of drones. I don't see why we could not have PA or ISI personnel in the trailer, at the controls workstation, along side USA people and get agreement from the GoP person to select the target and to pull the trigger. As a quid pro quo, the GoP would have to tell their public that the GoP was authorizing and participating with every strike and accept the consequences of any real collateral damage, both to people and to the political standing of GoP leaders. It is this last point that probably holds up even this compromise level of granting GoP "control" over FATA drone strikes.
 
"I also hail from the area near to Wazirastan in Pakistan but currently, I'm based in Islamabad, student of M.Sc. in Quaid-I-Azam University, Islamabad. I'm more au fait with the ground facts but unfortunately, there are few journalists like Farhat Taj who are very daringly writing on this issue. People of Wazirastan feel to have been sandwiched between TTP and PA. They neither trust TTP nor PA..."
Thank you, S-2, for the articles. That sentiment expressed by the student is certainly quite common, I too have come across it. However, this is the first I've heard from anyone in that region, speaking out for drone strikes rather than against it (at least it sounded like that). Unfortunately, the student failed to mention (or you left out) the realization amongst the people that this mess was brought upon them by the US war in Afghanistan, by their elders' demands that FATA be left alone as a lawless tribal region, and by them not rising against the home-grown Taliban that chose to target Pakistani civilians and Army. These, too, is a very common feelings in that region, as I too have spoken with many people from there and nearby (though, admittedly, I've never been to Waziristan).

I think at this point with the divergence of national interests vis a' vis post-ISAF Afghanistan, the USA would not fully relinquish control of drones. I don't see why we could not have PA or ISI personnel in the trailer, at the controls workstation, along side USA people and get agreement from the GoP person to select the target and to pull the trigger. As a quid pro quo, the GoP would have to tell their public that the GoP was authorizing and participating with every strike and accept the consequences of any real collateral damage, both to people and to the political standing of GoP leaders. It is this last point that probably holds up even this compromise level of granting GoP "control" over FATA drone strikes.
You're absolutely right. I think it's spineless of our government to deny any role in the strikes and to "openly condemn" them, when anybody with a thinking cap would know they've given the US forces the Green light. I also think its deceitful of our Armed Forces to stay away from this issue (the ISPR rarely ever mentions drone strikes).

Though I understand your point about conflict of interests with the post-ISAF Afghanistan, I also feel that if the US is serious about creating a stable region for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, that it must do what it can to bolster, not damage, the sovereignty and national unity inside Pakistan. Drone strikes, as is obvious by the numbers in the Farhat Taj article, do not do that. This is a military forum, we see many people in favor of these strikes here simply because we look at the outcomes, but the rest of the populace doesn't. To them, this is a serious breach of Pakistani pride, and it has done as much to damage the Army's image amongst its people than even Musharraf did. Never, ever did you hear people saying the Pakistan Army was incompetent or helpless before, but with the drone strikes (coupled with the Blackwater and CIA theories), that is exactly the word around town.

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Really, S-2, hell of a find. Very enlightening indeed. It was written on March 05, 2009, it's February 02, 2010. How did I not come across this article before?

-- Do you see drone attacks bringing about fear and terror in the common people? (Yes 45%, No 55%)

-- Do you think the drones are accurate in their strikes? (Yes 52%, No 48%)

-- Do you think anti-American feelings in the area increased due to drone attacks recently? (Yes 42%, No 58%)

-- Should Pakistan military carry out targeted strikes at the militant organisations? (Yes 70%, No 30%)

-- Do the militant organisations get damaged due to drone attacks? (Yes 60%, No 40%)

Clear conclusions can only be derived from the the last two questions, as the others are too close to call and might even be within the error range. This adds even more credibility to the notion that the people would be a lot more supportive of strikes if they were conducted by the Armed Forces of Pakistan, hence mitigating many of the drawbacks associated with them (not to mention deprive the Taliban of a key recruiting point).

The Drones have been devastatingly effective and civilian casualties have been kept to a minimum.

Most of the dead are the Taliban Rats and Al Qaeda Terrorists.
That's an opinion. May be far from the facts. Like I said, the only people who can truly confirm the numbers, won't; ISI's assets on the ground. This ambiguity over how many civilians vs how many terrorists is exactly what leads to the massive confusion.

Also, according to the survey above, the people are split between whether these attacks are accurate or even useful. There is no overwhelming support, as you claim.
 
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That's an opinion. May be far from the facts. Like I said, the only people who can truly confirm the numbers, won't; ISI's assets on the ground. This ambiguity over how many civilians vs how many terrorists is exactly what leads to the massive confusion.

Also, according to the survey above, the people are split between whether these attacks are accurate or even useful. There is no overwhelming support, as you claim.

No its not.

Why is that the Taliban show up each time whenever a strike happens and quickly carry away the bodies?

If innocent people are being killed, how come their relatives are not on GEO, AAJ TV or being interviewed by Zaid Hamid talking about American atrocities and wailing against these attacks?

I have yet to see any relatives of the victims of these attacks.

Or is it the fact that most of the dead rats are Taliban and Al Qaeda Terrorists and have no one to mourn for them.

Was Beitullah Meshud an innocent person as well?

Its these kinds of analysis that I believe that Pakistani journalism has a long long long way to go before it can actually to proper reporting.

I fully and totally support these Drone Attacks and apparently so does the Pakistani Army. :usflag::pakistan:
 
Ms. Taj has contributed her thoughts once again to the Drone narrative here-

Analysis: Drone Attacks And U.S. Reputation-DAILY TIMES February 5, 2010

Here's a column with something infuriating for anybody and sure to make enemies of us all. While applauding America's efforts to eradicate the global menace of A.Q., Ms. Taj provides a not-so-subtle dig that we're either perfectly thorough in our work or the agents of muslim destabilization if we allow even one A.Q. master to flee for Yemen or elsewhere.

While I'm encouraged by her thoughts, ascribing perfect awareness thus targeting to America is extending upon us an intentionally false aura of omnipotence we simply don't possess. We won't get them all however much we'd like and suggesting such is within our realm is unreasonable.

So too the notion that not a single innocent life has been lost in FATA. Not even I subscribe to that as it's clear from time to time children and wives of those hosting these targets must be lost. I don't know this for certain but it's a reasonable assumption from my perspective and, in making such a claim, Ms. Taj begins to lose credibility in my view.

Finally, she mentions a conference held in Peshawar on December 12-13, 2009 that resulted in the Peshawar Declaration. It, more than anything else, deserves reading even if many here would disagree-

Peshawar Declaration-KhyberWatch Jan. 23, 2010

The translation by KhyberWatch is clumsy and must be read carefully to ascertain the true meaning but it's a valuable contribution to the Pakistani collective narrative, IMV.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
As long as those Hell Fires are sending TTP Idiots to Hell, its all right, its in our interests if the race of TTP is ending :pakistan: :usflag:
 
US wanted to target Al Qeada fighters but after 9/11 all Arab/Chechan/Tajik fighters are fighting in Afghanistan against ISAF, hence these drones are only targeting students of Madrasah and Civilians .Only five or six Al Qaeda leaders killed in eights years at cost of 560 Billion USD @ 70 Billion USD per year .

What a great war strategy?

Afghanistan operations under the NATO umbrella, are costing the US something close to 70 billion dollars a year

http://oliveandarrow.com/?p=195
 
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