DRDO working on cutting submarine vulnerability

[misterme2]

Nobody listens to common Indian. Bureaucracy and Politics rule us. Although RTI was something good in this field but it is also not enough. People are being killed for raising normal issues using RTI act.


Man we lead the world in this. Do you know about the latest corruption scam in our country. Our Telecom minister is involved in this. This scam is related to 2G spectrum license which is of the size of US$38.98 billion. Just imagine....

I know man....its nuts......Nitish Kumar can be a savior....if he is allowed to perform without interference. He is the only politician that has openly supported E-goverance. Look up 3-1-1 in NYC.....you will be amazed how it has changed the way government works efficiently for the people. This is absolutely what India needs in order to cut thru all that corruption and red tape in Gov't.

 

[misterme2]

Nobody listens to common Indian. Bureaucracy and Politics rule us. Although RTI was something good in this field but it is also not enough. People are being killed for raising normal issues using RTI act.


Man we lead the world in this. Do you know about the latest corruption scam in our country. Our Telecom minister is involved in this. This scam is related to 2G spectrum license which is of the size of US$38.98 billion. Just imagine....

RTI's is a great move but I also heard about the killings....we need to do more to protect the innocent.

 

[tallboy123]

^^ If we want the change,then BJP should be in center after the next elections,not Congress..
congress is full of scumbags

 

[DesiGuy]

^^ If we want the change,then BJP should be in center after the next elections,not Congress..
congress is full of scumbags

i think both of them deserve not to win election.

 

[angeldemon_007]

If we want the change,then BJP should be in center after the next elections,not Congress..

Yeah i agree with you but not because what you said because there should be a power change in few years otherwise the leading party will think we can do anything and nobody can stop us. The power change will make sure that the parties understand that people are watching you and if you won't work you are gonna lose the power...

Even in P-75A the money allocated is not too much..

Do you know we are paying 1 billion $ extra because of the delays caused by both the parties. Also that deal was not so big.

$ 11 Bil. for complete TOT of 6 most modern Diesel nuclear submarines present including lifecycle cost is not too much..

What the f--k is most modern dude. This what world has, US and UK does not work in this field. The most modern sub is German A214 subs, they also pioneer in AIP tech. and also the subs are cheaper.

French are offering the same scorpene which would be bigger in size and will come with AIP and that too in 5 billion$ and they are willing to add AIP in last 2 subs of Project 75A. Then why our govt. wants to pay 11 billion$, when the vendor itself is asking for less than half of the price ?

And are you kidding me, you can purchase nuke subs in this amount of money although i am not talking about US and UK nuke subs which are bigger and costlier (around 2 billion$ per unit) but still.

The actual problem is we don't know how to negotiate. Look at it man, we are talking about a deal worth 11 billion $ at the time of economic slowdown, every country want this deal to increase the jobs.

Do you know at these time if we negotiate properly we could reduce the price of every big deal. Thats what CAG says every time but nobody listens to them.

I would give you an example from a CAG report :

India pays dearly for poorly negotiated arms deals

three AWACS aircraft from Israel in March 2004-
These aircraft were earlier being sold to China for US $358 million but the deal had to be aborted under US pressure.
Subsequently, India agreed to buy them for US $1.1 billion–a whopping US $742 million more than the price agreed to by the Chinese. Even Israel was skeptical with this move.

 

[jha]

What the f--k is most modern dude. This what world has, US and UK does not work in this field. The most modern sub is German A214 subs, they also pioneer in AIP tech. and also the subs are cheaper.

US and UK does not field SSKs but they have SSNs for the role..Can we field them..? The Germans might be pioneer in AIP subs but they are not willing for ToT , thats why their deal with Brazil did not happen..

French are offering the same scorpene which would be bigger in size and will come with AIP and that too in 5 billion$ and they are willing to add AIP in last 2 subs of Project 75A. Then why our govt. wants to pay 11 billion$, when the vendor itself is asking for less than half of the price ?

Because you will never know what we will be getting in this..No navy in the world lets you know how many Subs they are operating and many a times the no. of subs being procured are more than what is published ..

And are you kidding me, you can purchase nuke subs in this amount of money although i am not talking about US and UK nuke subs which are bigger and costlier (around 2 billion$ per unit) but still.

Good luck with that..Try buying a nuke sub in market ..

The actual problem is we don't know how to negotiate. Look at it man, we are talking about a deal worth 11 billion $ at the time of economic slowdown, every country want this deal to increase the jobs.

Do you know at these time if we negotiate properly we could reduce the price of every big deal. Thats what CAG says every time but nobody listens to them.

I would give you an example from a CAG report :

India pays dearly for poorly negotiated arms deals

three AWACS aircraft from Israel in March 2004-
These aircraft were earlier being sold to China for US $358 million but the deal had to be aborted under US pressure.
Subsequently, India agreed to buy them for US $1.1 billion–a whopping US $742 million more than the price agreed to by the Chinese. Even Israel was skeptical with this move

oh really..we are the dumbest people in the world ..? Who in the world pays thrice the amount..And do you have any idea what kind of relationship we have with israel..Its simply not buyer-seller ..We have got much more than AWACs..Rest you can figure yourself..
And yes..CAG people even criticized TRENTON deal..

 

[Indian-Devil]

US and UK does not field SSKs but they have SSNs for the role..Can we field them..? The Germans might be pioneer in AIP subs but they are not willing for ToT , thats why their deal with Brazil did not happen..

No, its ture Indian Navy asked for Diesel electric subs only for this project but still $ 11 billion is vey huge amount. Even with ToT also its almost 2-3 times the mentioned cost by manufacturers.

Because you will never know what we will be getting in this..No navy in the world lets you know how many Subs they are operating and many a times the no. of subs being procured are more than what is published ..

We may not be really knowing the exact capabilities of the subs Indian navy will be getting or the requirement list, But its not the case that Indian Navy will be getting 20 subs in this contract in such amount. And how abt the possibility of corruption in this deal if deal doesnot suffies the cost of subs or cost of ToT or any other cost for armaments or future upgrades. It still doesn't suffies the cost of 11-12 Billion dollors. Earlier for same deal around 30,000 Crore Indian ruppes was sanctioned why such jump in the cost in 2-3 yrs. And still the deal is not thru , if MoD follows the same practise then this deal might go to 55-60 Thousand crore till deal is finilized.

Good luck with that..Try buying a nuke sub in market ..

Its not really too hard to buy a nuke sub in market these days, See how brazilans had deal with French for Baracuda class nuke sub. Cost may be more for nuke subs, but atleast French offered nuke subs also.

oh really..we are the dumbest people in the world ..? Who in the world pays thrice the amount..And do you have any idea what kind of relationship we have with israel..Its simply not buyer-seller ..We have got much more than AWACs..Rest you can figure yourself..
And yes..CAG people even criticized TRENTON deal..

Thats true in deal with Awacs case, Moreover Israel didnot offered 4 Awacs $358 million , this deal was only for 1 platform. Indian got 4 awacs platform in 1.1 billion dollors. US came in picture as China asked for ToT for Awacs tech from Israel.

Pls find my reply in blue color.

 

[jha]

No, its ture Indian Navy asked for Diesel electric subs only for this project but still $ 11 billion is vey huge amount. Even with ToT also its almost 2-3 times the mentioned cost by manufacturers.

Of course it will be....We will have to pay this much for help in setting up production line + complete ToT + Lifecycle cost...What do you expect..How come we are planning to start our own sub production after P-75A..ToT is most misunderstood term...For complete ToT, you need to pay more..

Its not really too hard to buy a nuke sub in market these days, See how brazilans had deal with French for Baracuda class nuke sub. Cost may be more for nuke subs, but atleast French offered nuke subs also.

Oh really..Why dont you list some of countries willing to sale complete SSN/SSGN?SSBN..
Regarding France selling Baracuda class:: There is nothing N ( nuclear ) in the deal..They are just making a hull for them..Brazil has developed the core and will install it themselves..And dont forget the RAFALE deal France is forcing on them..

Thats true in deal with Awacs case, Moreover Israel didnot offered 4 Awacs $358 million , this deal was only for 1 platform. Indian got 4 awacs platform in 1.1 billion dollors. US came in picture as China asked for ToT for Awacs tech from Israel.

Thats true..Plus Phalcon was just a beginning..You never know whats on offer from Russia and Israel..

 

[sancho]

US and UK does not field SSKs but they have SSNs for the role..Can we field them..? The Germans might be pioneer in AIP subs but they are not willing for ToT , thats why their deal with Brazil did not happen..

That's not correct Jha! Brazils aim was to develop an on nuclear propulsion for an SSN, but Germany is restricted to non nuclear military techs only, that's why the ToT (that they are willing to provide) does not help Brazil. France instead has a lot of experience with SSNs and the Scorpene class is based on older SSNs, even with common systems. The deal with them now includes AFAIK 4 x diesel - electric Scorpens with AIP and a 5th hull, where the Brazilians will integrate an own nuclear propulsion. The French will assist with ToT and consultancy during the development.