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DRDO claims it can develop PAK FA technologies itself

Windjammer

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Russia and India Had Big Plans to Build a Stealth Fighter. So What Happened?
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Zachary Keck
June 20, 2018

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India backed out of a $9 billion agreement to develop a fifth-generation fighter jet with Russia because it didn’t need Moscow’s help, according to a new report.

On June 13, India’s Economic Times reported that Delhi pulled out of the agreement at the direction of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO), India’s premier defense technology agency. Citing “sources who were involved in the negotiations and are knowledgeable about the decision,” the Economic Times said the “final nail in the coffin” was DRDO’s insistence that it could develop all the technologies Russia was offering in the the PAK FA project.

Previously, it was believed that India had soured on the agreement because the Indian Air Force (IAF) didn’t believe that Russia’s designs could meet its operational needs. The new report said that the IAF did indeed have these concerns, however, they were informed that measures could be taken that could address these reservations. While these discussions were ongoing, DRDO was asked about its opinion of the project, and “whether the deal would result in the infusion of high-end technologies in India.” The “emphatic response by then DRDO chief, S Christopher,” was that his organization was capable of producing the necessary technology itself. This “sealed the fate of the program,” according to the Economic Times.

The program to co-develop a fifth-generation fighter jet— called the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA)— dates back to 2007, when India and Russia signed a mutual agreement. The aircraft was envisioned as a “multi-role, single seat, twin-engine air superiority/deep air support fighter with stealth capabilities and is based on the Sukhoi PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) T-50 prototype.” The 2007 agreement was followed three years later by the two sides signing a $295 billion preliminary design contract for the fifth-generation aircraft. At that time, Russia agreed to purchase 250 planes while India signed on for 144 of them. But five years later, in 2015, Moscow announced that it would only be purchasing 12-16 planes, raising concerns in Delhi. This dispute held up the signing of a final design agreement in which both sides were expected to contribute $6 billion to the design and production of the plane. To appease India, Moscow made a number of concessions on the cost and number of prototypes of the plane, as well as other issues. While it once appeared things might be back on track— as late as January of this year there were reports the contract would be signed soon— ultimately India appears to have pulled out of the agreement.

As noted above, part of the reason for this was that the Indian Air Force had soured on the plane. The IAF had a number of complaints about the aircraft. First among them is that the Air Force believed the plane’s stealth and cross-section features would be inferior to America’s F-35. IAF officials were also concerned that Russia wanted to use existing engines for the plane rather than develop new ones. “Current prototypes of the aircraft are fitted with a derivative of the Russian-made Saturn AL-41F1S engine, dubbed AL-41F1, an older aircraft engine also installed on the Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E,” The Diplomat reported in April 2018.

Another issue, according to an October 2017 article in Defense News, is that the FGFA “does not have modular engine concept, making maintenance and serviceability of the fleet expensive and troublesome.” An IAF official explained to Defense News that the lack of a modular engine would prevent India’s Air Force from repairing planes in-house. Instead, servicing would have to be performed by the manufacturer. Previously, IAF sources have complained about the high maintenance costs of the Su-30 planes India purchased from Russia.
 
If DRDO is capable of developing fifth generation technologies then something like the Gripen , F-16 or even the Rafale should be like a second line production for it.
 
Yes, All technologies are in rich of India except engine right now.
 
There's no point going for a 25% workshare. The IAF wasn't happy with HAL not aiming for the entire 50%.

MKIzation is a better option, but as the ambassador said, FGFA is still active.
 
That's not what it is saying. Journos have a habit of distorting the words. The problem with PAKFA is that the ToT component is not being followed as it was initially discussed in 2007. While Russians are right about the willingness to transfer requisite tech, this should have been a continuous position from day one rather than suddenly changing conditions in the middle of an agreement.

Russians later changed the plans on the number of jets they will buy for RuAF. And remember in any production, economies of scale is a major deal maker or breaker. If we agreed to buy a combined 500 strong fleet, changing it last minute means the unit price goes up to cover the production costs.

The line says DRDO can build all technologies which the Russians are willing to transfer. Which means, it is about those specific technologies only. Not the overall tech.

Please read the line carefully before putting misleading titles.
 
There's no point going for a 25% workshare. The IAF wasn't happy with HAL not aiming for the entire 50%.

MKIzation is a better option, but as the ambassador said, FGFA is still active.
''Previously, IAF sources have complained about the high maintenance costs of the Su-30 planes India purchased from Russia''. !!

That's not what it is saying. Journos have a habit of distorting the words. The problem with PAKFA is that the ToT component is not being followed as it was initially discussed in 2007. While Russians are right about the willingness to transfer requisite tech, this should have been a continuous position from day one rather than suddenly changing conditions in the middle of an agreement.

Russians later changed the plans on the number of jets they will buy for RuAF. And remember in any production, economies of scale is a major deal maker or breaker. If we agreed to buy a combined 500 strong fleet, changing it last minute means the unit price goes up to cover the production costs.

The line says DRDO can build all technologies which the Russians are willing to transfer. Which means, it is about those specific technologies only. Not the overall tech.

Please read the line carefully before putting misleading titles.
I am only going by what's said in the article.

DRDO was asked about its opinion of the project, and “whether the deal would result in the infusion of high-end technologies in India.” The “emphatic response by then DRDO chief, S Christopher,” was that his organization was capable of producing the necessary technology itself. This “sealed the fate of the program,” according to the Economic Times.
 
the Economic Times said the “final nail in the coffin” was DRDO’s insistence that it could develop all the technologies Russia was offering in the the PAK FA project.


Don't you love DODO. :D
 
Then why most of the components of Tejas (rejected by IAF and IN) are sourced from outside India ...

Components like what? Digital Fly by wire system? Carbon composite body? Avionics? The two major components which we import for LCA is the engine and radar. AESA Uttam radar is currently being integrated to Tejas as we speak and it will fly using a Kaveri engine during next air show in Bangalore.
 
So where did Tejas go wrong, it's obviously not running late due to some engine issues.

Tejas is doing fine. We have come a long way since we have started. Today it completed 4000th fiight without even a smallest accident. We are improving it aerodynamically and also reducing the weight. AESA is coming in so as state of art EW. It has surpassed all exception which initially we had on it. MK2 shall be absolutely top class with all MMRCA stuff.

LOL

by technologies they mean

Coconut blessed oil for the engine.

Teeka for fault removal and maintenance

Gao products for armor

Trishuls for engines etc etc.

Ad lots of cheer leaders for cheering.
 
''Previously, IAF sources have complained about the high maintenance costs of the Su-30 planes India purchased from Russia''. !!

What's this got to do with anything?

IAF has never "complained" about MKI's maintenance costs.
 
@Windjammer

When we started Tejas... our defense sector was not as robust as it is today... you can make fun of Tejas but it did helped us in creating an aviation industry and confidence to develop fighter jets on our own... the involvement of private sector will enhance it further...

We have lost the opportunity of developing aviation industry by not moving forward on the stepping stone set by HAL Marut... but we should not repeat those mistakes now...

Rejection of Tejas by Navy is due to lack of endurance and weight... IAF is in process of including them their inventory...

P.S.:
If you could feel proud for having rejected fighter of a country... just imagine how do we feel after designing and developing one at our own...
 
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