Don't vote for BJP, it will impose a Hindu CM, Only a Muslim can become CM in J&K: PDP leader

[Razia Sultana]

Thank you for the self appeasement. However, your constitution is NOT the reflection of the will of these people as it is clearly shown.
BJP win blow to Muslim politics: Singhal - Hindustan Times

What this article has anything to do with our constitution? In democracy somebody wins and somebody loses but constitution remains. Indian constitution is flexible when it comes to governance but when it comes to basic framework, its very rigid. This ensures that fundamentals wont change with the change in government of leadership. If the person or party i voted for, loses the election that does not mean my aspirations are doomed. The government is responsible to all.

 

[SQ8]

1) As per credible market research surveys (c-voter/ Chanakya/ etc. all of whom actually predcited correct opinion polls) have declared that around 11% of Muslims have voted for BJP. That is in no way a small number, considering the nu,mber of so called secular parties are 3-4 or even more in some states.

2)Even if your first point is true, the second point of mine in the earlier post shows that even if all are hindutvawadis, they vote for a hundutva party who stands for development and inclusive growth rather than the more hardliner version aka Shivsena.

1)11% of the Muslims within constituencies or 11% Muslims within India as a whole? In either case these are NOT at all optimistic figures to support the "economy supreme" theory you are proposing?

2) Which then has ZERO relevance to a communal vote debate since the factor you wish to gauge was irrelevant in the final decision.

 

[he-man]

1)11% of the Muslims within constituencies or 11% Muslims within India as a whole? In either case these are NOT at all optimistic figures to support the "economy supreme" theory you are proposing?

2) Which then has ZERO relevance to a communal vote debate since the factor you wish to gauge was irrelevant in the final decision.

11% is unbelievable if true.............
On topic fair demand by kashmiris,,,jiski laathi uski bhens.In this case a muslim should have the bhains

 

[SQ8]

11% is unbelievable if true.............
On topic fair demand by kashmiris,,,jiski laathi uski bhens.In this case a muslim should have the bhains

Well, it should not be. There would be a certain urban population of muslims who see beyond the communal ideals and the potential for improvement in their lives via a much more promising economic future through the BJP. It is that vote that swung the BJP's way. But the general lot, did not if the 11% reflects a percentage of the entire Muslim vote.

 

[Judge]

Well, it should not be. There would be a certain urban population of muslims who see beyond the communal ideals and the potential for improvement in their lives via a much more promising economic future through the BJP. It is that vote that swung the BJP's way. But the general lot, did not if the 11% reflects a percentage of the entire Muslim vote.

The Muslims of India are the least educated and poorest aggregate group. Therefore the majority of Indian Muslims are ...gullible and easily excited/angered/placated. This is taken advantage of by every almost every Muslim political leader of India.

Group voting is therefore more common in Muslims than in any other demographic group rather than individual calculations of cost/benefit.

 

[Tridibans]

1)11% of the Muslims within constituencies or 11% Muslims within India as a whole? In either case these are NOT at all optimistic figures to support the "economy supreme" theory you are proposing?

2) Which then has ZERO relevance to a communal vote debate since the factor you wish to gauge was irrelevant in the final decision.

It is, if the same party traditionaly gets 2-3% of the muslim votes, on top of that, the whole media/ self declared secularists were against the PM nominee.....

And in the second case, it is not ZERO relevance as the original discussion was of MAJORITY of the people in a state. In Mahatrahstra, Hindus are majority and it is an Indian state.

 

[he-man]

Well, it should not be. There would be a certain urban population of muslims who see beyond the communal ideals and the potential for improvement in their lives via a much more promising economic future through the BJP. It is that vote that swung the BJP's way. But the general lot, did not if the 11% reflects a percentage of the entire Muslim vote.

U are right in general scheme of things but its complicated here.
Bjp wants to remove article 370 giving kashmir special status which has given huge advantage to kashmiris over the years and no kashmiri wants to mingle with other indians.Thats a hard fact mate.

Removal of 370 means ban on owning property in kashmir for non kashmiris will be lifted,,mass migration of others,,kashmiris fear it will lead to their dilution.

 

[asquare]

A BJP victory, if it materialises, will not necessarily be a true reflection of the will of the people of J&K. A BJP victory will rely on-

1. A complete consolidation of the non Muslim vote in favour of the BJP.
2. Boycotts by segments that are deeply opposed to the BJP.
3. Picking up bits of the Muslim vote by relying on loyalty to local leaders (like Sajjad Lone) who smell power and are willing to do a deal with the BJP.

The real opportunity that might come with a BJP victory is that a BJP government, spurred on by Modi, might go all out for the development of J&K. If they are effective, and BJP governments in many states have been effective, we might take a huge step forward towards reducing disenchantment with the Indian state in J&K.

The problem in developing J&K, apart from the lack of security, has been very poor political leadership. I work in an international development organisation and every program we analyse (at least all centrally sponsored schemes) has a much larger than proportionate allocation for J&K compared to the other states (because of special status). So the problem is not a lack of funds, it's a lack of delivery- something the BJP might be able to rectify.

 

[SQ8]

It is, if the same party traditionaly gets 2-3% of the muslim votes, on top of that, the whole media/ self declared secularists were against the PM nominee.....

And in the second case, it is not ZERO relevance as the original discussion was of MAJORITY of the people in a state. In Mahatrahstra, Hindus are majority and it is an Indian state.

Again, you are apologizing for the BJPs performance and are not addressing the psychology behind it which is the focus of my core argument regarding this topic and the baselessness merit ends up with in political decisions. Whether or not who were against the BJP is irrelevant... the point is that the hardline Hindu element being highlighted DID have the effect which you said had NO effect previously.. you just negated your whole argument in that single line and essentially supported what I have been saying. That communal ideas did end up influencing the vote. Now suddenly you are agreeing with the Pakistani whom you said would never understand the Indian votebank.

The second case is STILL irrelevant. The Majority of the people in the state did NOT vote on a religious basis.. they voted on an economic basis. Communal reasons became irrelevant as both top competing parties flew the same saffron flag to appeal to those instincts.. the vote then came down to economics. Whereas here the majority is being asked to make their decision where communal ideas will play the front end role before economics comes into play.

 

[SQ8]

U are right in general scheme of things but its complicated here.
Bjp wants to remove article 370 giving kashmir special status which has given huge advantage to kashmiris over the years and no kashmiri wants to mingle with other indians.Thats a hard fact mate.

Removal of 370 means ban on owning property in kashmir for non kashmiris will be lifted,,mass migration of others,,kashmiris fear it will lead to their dilution.

Which again provides influence for the communal decision as well. The removal of article 370 can be and is skewed as visible by the opening post as a communal rift and "takeover" of a Muslim majority by a Hindu minority and usurping of their rights.

 

[Armstrong]

Which again provides influence for the communal decision as well. The removal of article 370 can be and is skewed as visible by the opening post as a communal rift and "takeover" of a Muslim majority by a Hindu minority and usurping of their rights.

Shaabaash...shaabaash today your Kashmiri Brother is pleased !

 

[he-man]

Which again provides influence for the communal decision as well. The removal of article 370 can be and is skewed as visible by the opening post as a communal rift and "takeover" of a Muslim majority by a Hindu minority and usurping of their rights.

Sure it does.
But u were taking an idealist stand here.

U know it well how people vote in india and pakistan.Its butts vs chaudhris vs sandhus vs khokhars vs bhattis etc.
Forget about religion,,u have to get the caste right

In the longterm it makes the society intolerant.Today's present day indian punjab has 35% hindus and i am glad for that.But ask my parents and u get a very communal answer.Our societies are as dumb as u can imagine and it won't change anytime soon

 

[Tridibans]

Again, you are apologizing for the BJPs performance and are not addressing the psychology behind it which is the focus of my core argument regarding this topic and the baselessness merit ends up with in political decisions. Whether or not who were against the BJP is irrelevant... the point is that the hardline Hindu element being highlighted DID have the effect which you said had NO effect previously.. you just negated your whole argument in that single line and essentially supported what I have been saying. That communal ideas did end up influencing the vote. Now suddenly you are agreeing with the Pakistani whom you said would never understand the Indian votebank.

The second case is STILL irrelevant. The Majority of the people in the state did NOT vote on a religious basis.. they voted on an economic basis. Communal reasons became irrelevant as both top competing parties flew the same saffron flag to appeal to those instincts.. the vote then came down to economics. Whereas here the majority is being asked to make their decision where communal ideas will play the front end role before economics comes into play.

I dont know you are getting confused..... Your points were:

1) In Kashmir, majority (muslims) won't accept Hindu CM as its the psych and mindset of Indian people...

2) BJP won because of its Hardline stand and polarised Hindus.

I am rebutting it by saying

1) Today Indian voter mindset is slowly but steadily changing (even Muslims and Kashmiris) as evident thaat BJP won 11-2% of Muslim votes which was earlier unthinkable.

2) I said as per your logic, Marathis would have elected a MARATHI party not a north Indian party like BJP , then again I said as per your logic even if all were hindutwavaadis, why did the marathis vote for BJP and not Sena as Sena is infact more Hindu than BJP?

 

[he-man]

Shaabaash...shaabaash today your Kashmiri Brother is pleased !

The name of person in my dp is premchand dogra/degra

 

[he-man]

I dont know you are getting confused..... Your points were:

1) In Kashmir, majority (muslims) won't accept Hindu CM as its the psych and mindset of Indian people...

2) BJP won because of its Hardline stand and polarised Hindus.

I am rebutting it by saying

1) Today Indian voter mindset is slowly but steadily changing (even Muslims and Kashmiris) as evident thaat BJP won 11-2% of Muslim votes which was earlier unthinkable.

2) I said as per your logic, Marathis would have elected a MARATHI party not a north Indian party like BJP , then again I said as per your logic even if all were hindutwavaadis, why did the marathis vote for BJP and not Sena as Sena is infact more Hindu than BJP?

bullshit..............we are far and few