Does pakistan have the ability to strike

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 4 2005, 02:32 AM
check out masroor using google earth.

[post=2226]Quoted post[/post]​

Thanks for the offer, but I have all the PAF bases pictured by our own sats.

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Ahsan Farooqui@Nov 5 2005, 02:14 AM
What Mirage claim? What is he talking about? Is he saying that Mirage can't fire Exocet?

[post=2277]Quoted post[/post]​

I am talking about PAF mirages for PN service.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[coldfire2005]

mirage are too old for countering any warships it has to be close to the target to fire the exocet missile , secondly mig29 and sea harriers are better equiped to deal with mirages , people should know that sea harriers are fitted with debra bvr of israel and radar has olso been ugraded

 

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by coldfire2005@Nov 5 2005, 01:37 PM
mirage are too old for countering any warships it has to be close to the target to fire the exocet missile , secondly mig29 and sea harriers are better equiped to deal with mirages , people should know that sea harriers are fitted with debra bvr of israel and radar has olso been ugraded

[post=2312]Quoted post[/post]​

Any links.Once pakistan has a air launched version of Babar then theres basicly nothing that IN can counter with.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by miroslav@Nov 5 2005, 12:33 PM
Thanks for the offer, but I have all the PAF bases pictured by our own sats.

Miro

[post=2305]Quoted post[/post]​

you lucky prick

what else do your satalites see?

and is it like gogole earth where you can eves drop on anything you want but with the difrence being that you see LIVE???


(im not sure if they would allow you this lol...but may be they do at the HIGH HIGH level)

(i am trying to say can you hunt down ahen ahem using the satalites like the old guy in MIB did lol....found his wife :LOLANI:

damn im gona buy a satalite.. oh the possibilitys.

 

[Sharjeel]

Originally posted by coldfire2005@Nov 5 2005, 01:37 PM
mirage are too old for countering any warships it has to be close to the target to fire the exocet missile , secondly mig29 and sea harriers are better equiped to deal with mirages , people should know that sea harriers are fitted with debra bvr of israel and radar has olso been ugraded

[post=2312]Quoted post[/post]​

the Mirages for the navy are all rose. and yes rose upgrade allowes to fire BVR missiles.

now the missiles hmm thats a difrent story lol.


can your migs be launched from the carriers???

and would the migs have the reach to cover the carrier group??

 

[coldfire2005]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 5 2005, 10:20 PM
the Mirages for the navy are all rose. and yes rose upgrade allowes to fire BVR missiles.

now the missiles hmm thats a difrent story lol.
can your migs be launched from the carriers???

and would the migs have the reach to cover the carrier group??

[post=2327]Quoted post[/post]​

dude if mig29 cannot be launched from aircraft carrieers than why the hell we are buying russian aircraft carrer ins vikramaditya ( admiral goshov) migs have been tested on carriers in russia and a part of naval pilots are in russia for training and by mid 2006 mig29 will start arriving in goa base ins hansa

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 5 2005, 09:50 PM
the Mirages for the navy are all rose. and yes rose upgrade allowes to fire BVR missiles.

now the missiles hmm thats a difrent story lol.
can your migs be launched from the carriers???

and would the migs have the reach to cover the carrier group??

[post=2327]Quoted post[/post]​

You again started with can be and could be......

and son MiG-29K are basically for naval role which we are buying for The Indian Navy along with Admiral Gorshkov AKA INS Vikramaditya.

MiG-29K FULCRUM-D

Type: Fleet air defense with an anti-surface vessel and recon role.

Versions in Indian Navy Service: MiG-29K - Single-seat fighter.
MiG-29KUB - Dual-seat trainer.

Design Features: The 'export' MiG-29K is based on the 'basic' MiG-29K airframe, but is lighter in answer to the Indian Navy's requirements for the smallest possible dimensions to maximise use of space on the aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov). Details of the variant were confirmed by Nikolai Nikitin, RSK-MiG's General Designer. Nikitin says the aircraft is based on the original MiG-29K airframe, but without the high-cost welded aluminium lithium fuel tanks and forward fuselage. The land-based MiG-29's over-wing auxiliary tanks have been deleted, and the sharp-edged leading-edge root extensions are filled with fuel to extend the aircraft's range.

With a 25-year design life, the 'export' MiG-29K features a larger wing area, incorporating a longer chord double-slotted flap and drooped elevons over the 'basic' MiG-29K. The wing root has a sharp leading edge. In addition, the central fuselage integral tank and a fuselage load-carrying section, to which the arrester hook and main struts are attached, were considerably strengthened, and additional fuel is carried in the fuselage spine. The nose undercarriage is able to steer through +/- 90º and houses a three-colour lamp which indicates the aircraft's position on the glide path, and its landing speed, to a visual landing signal officer. The arrester hook is also fitted with an illumination system to indicate when it is lowered.

The aircraft will have an improved navigation equipment commensurate with its maritime role. For deck landing, the aircraft will be fitted with a special navigation system comprising instrument landing systems interacting with the ship's markers, jam-resistant coded data link and automated built-in test facilities. In the event of the pilot having to eject near the aircraft carrier, the novel escape system will ensure that he is ejected clear of the ship. The export 'K' variant will feature a triplex digital fly-by-wire control system, with multiple-redundancy in all three channels and a mechanical back-up in roll-and-yaw channels. A proven control algorithm used in the analog-digital flight control system on the basic 'K' variant will be retained. It is possible that some avionics components aboard the aircraft will be produced by French or Indian companies.

The dual-seat 'KUB' trainer has identical aerodynamic characteristics to the single-seat 'K' fighter and has the same wing and tail plane platform geometry. To further ease transition from the trainer to the fighter, even the forward nose sections are identical. They are equipped with similar avionics and can carry the same armament. Both aircraft have an in-flight refuelling capability, having a retractable refuelling probe in the port forward fuselage, and may also be used as tankers. With the take-off and landing weights identical to the fighter, the trainer has 8% less fuel capacity and a 7 to 10% shorter combat radius. In addition to carrying out its main training role, the trainer has a fully operational capability. Indeed, the two man crew could open up additional roles such as airborne early warning or electronic warfare. In its combat role, the second pilot will act as a weapons systems operator.

Accommodation: The pilot is seated on a 10º inclined Zvezda K-36DM/2-06 zero/zero ejection seat under rearward hinged transparent blister canopy in high seat cockpit. It also has a sharply inclined one piece covered windscreen. Three internal mirrors provide the rearward view.

Engine: Two Klimov/Sarkisov RD-33 Series 3M turbofans each produce 11,100 lbs thrust dry, 18,300 lbs thrust in reheat and 19,180 lbs thrust in an emergency reheat. Engines for the Indian Navy's MiG-29Ks will have smokeless combustors, an anti-corrosive coating, a basic overhaul time of 1,000 hours and a short-time increased take-off-thrust rating.

Speed: Mach 1.93 - maximum level speed at altitude.
..........870 mph - at low level.

Operational Ceiling: 57,410 ft. (15,600 meters).

Maximum Climb Rate: 58,200 feet.

Maximum Combat Radius: 700 nautical miles - external fuel tank.
450 nautical miles - with internal fuel.
*Endurance at 32 nautical miles from carrier - 2+ hours.

Avionics: The Indian Navy's MiG-29K are more likely to be equipped with downsized NIIP N011M Bars-29 passive phased array radar, rather than the Phazatron Zhuk-MSE multifunctional radar, to ensure commonality with the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI. The Bars radar will have functions for operations in air-to-air and air-to-ground modes and a helmet-mounted sight. The cockpit will incorporates two large-screen, multi-function, liquid-crystal displays and HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick).

The aircraft's avionics will be based on MIL-STD 1533 bus. The core of the onboard computer command system will be all Russian and will include a central computer, four target designation systems (radar, TV, IR and helmet-mounted sight) and a head-up display. Although primarily to be armed with Russian weapons, Western weapons may be offered as an option. Integration of Western-made weapons is not expected to present problems, as RSK MiG has amassed experience of a variety of Western weapon systems during development of the Russian-French MiG-AT jet trainer and the mating the Kopyo radar on the MiG-21-93 for the IAF.

Weapons: Due to an integrated weapon selection panel, the MiG-29K can use a wide range of weapons, which includes no less than eight types of air-to-air missiles and 25 air-to-surface weapons. The weapon selection system enables the pilot to fire more than one type of weapon per attack. The aircraft is armed with an internal 30mm GSh-301 gun, with 150 rounds. In the air superiority role, the MiG-29K can be armed with the close-combat R-60MK and the R-73RDM2, the medium-range R-27RE1/TE1 and the beyond-visual-range R-77RVV-AE air-to-air missile. In the air-to-surface role, the AS-20 (air-launched 3M-24E) anti-ship missile can be carried.

Maximum Combat Load: 12,125 lbs.

Self Defence: The electronic warfare (EW) suite will likely consist of the Sirena-3 Radar Warning Receivers, two ECM transponders in the wing strake and chaff/flare dispensers built into the upper surfaces of the main wing. Each dispenser contains flares or chaff cartridges.

Comments: A $740 million contract was signed on 20 January 2004, which will supply the Indian Navy with 16 carrier-based MiG-29K/KUB aircraft (12 single-seat 'K' variants and 4 dual-seat 'KUB' variants). The contract also includes the full hardware for training maintenance and flying personnel, including simulators and interactive ground & sea based training systems. An option to acquire 30 additional aircraft by 2015, is also included in the contract. Delivery of the first aircraft are expected in June 2007 and is expected to commence before the upgrade of the Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov) has been completed and before the vessel is transferred to India.

Vice Admiral Madanjit Singh, FOC-in-C Western Naval Command, stated at a press conference on 13 April 2005 that the MiG-29K will be based at INS Hansa in Goa, when they arrive in 2007. He also stated that the Indian Navy plans to eventually acquire up to 40 MiG-29K aircraft. The Vice Admiral also pegged the price at $32 million per aircraft. Based on this calculation, the $740 million contract signed on 20 January 2004 works out to $46.25 million per aircraft. The additional $14.25 million per aircraft (or $228 million in total) includes the cost of the full hardware for training personnel, simulators and interactive ground & sea based training systems.

An important part of the MiG-29K/KUB program for the Indian Navy is the creation of a modern logistics system. Hence, RSK MiG has been developing such a system, involving aircraft operation with major overhauls, reduced maintenance man-hours, and full use of the infrastructure already existing in India for the servicing and repair of the MiG-29K, their equipment and engines, as well as an automated spares record & supply system.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 5 2005, 09:47 PM
you lucky prick

what else do your satalites see?

[post=2326]Quoted post[/post]​

All the IAF guyz are lucky in that factor.

Thanks,

Miro

 

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Kaiser@Nov 5 2005, 08:17 PM
Any links.

[post=2319]Quoted post[/post]​

In July 1999, a mid-life upgrade package worth $200 million was reportedly announced by the Indian Navy. Afterwards this upgrade package was cancelled in favour of purchasing the MiG-29K air defense fighter, for deployment on the Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov) and the Air Defence Ship. It was planed that the Sea Harriers would retire by 2010 along with the decommissioning of aircraft carrier INS Viraat in the same year. Surprisingly in March 2005, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the upgradation of 14 Sea Harriers. Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee stated that the aircraft will be upgraded at a cost of Rs 476.69 crore and will be carried out by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore. He also stated that the upgradation will involve the installation of new radars (Elta EL/M-2032 multimode fire control radar), new air-to-air missiles (Derby BVRAAM) from Israeli firm Rafael, combat manoeuvring flight recorders and digital cockpit voice recorders.

A formal contract, worth $25 million, was signed with the Rafael Armament Development Authority in February 2005 for the Derby BVRAAM and includes an initial batch of 20 missiles and six training rounds. Under the proposed contract, officials from Rafael will be stationed at the Sea Harrier base in Goa to train Navy personnel on the operation & maintenance of the missiles and will also supply trolleys and racks to load & handle the missiles. Delivery of the missiles are expected to begin 30 months after the signing of the contract and will be completed within one year thereafter.

Once pakistan has a air launched version of Babar then theres basicly nothing that IN can counter with.

When that once will come?

Before launching the Babur from the air why don't you think about MiG-29K and Harriers?

and why do you think that Babur can't be stopped by the IN??


BARAK SAM

The Barak SAM is an integrated system intended to destroy incoming anti-ship missiles. The system comprises of the 10 km-range interceptor missile, an eight-tube IAI/Rafael-developed vertical-launch system, an EL/M-2221 STGR [Search, Track & Guidance/Gunnery Radar] and an Elbit fire-control system capable of automatic operation, with the ability to engage two targets simultaneously. It features very low level flight capability, high fire power and a large kill radius. The system is fully operational day & night, and even in adverse weather conditions. The missile is launched vertically with a full 360º azimuth coverage and features a Command to Line-Of-Sight (CLOS) narrow, pencil beam radar guidance system that assures extended ECCM [Electronic Counter Counter Measures] immunity to enemy EW [Electronic Warfare] countermeasures. The guidance system enables accurate interception of both high and low flying threats, even in severely unfavourable, cluttered or multi-path conditions. The missile's performance is further enhanced by the EL/M-2221 STGR, which has an extremely powerful signal and data processing capability that has been optimized for defence against all anti-ship threats, particularly sea-skimming missiles.

This missile system was short listed by the Indian Navy in 1994 [1] and the first batch of seven systems, approved by the CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) in 1996, was followed by another approval in 2000 to install all seven systems onboard their respective platforms, initially announced as the P16/16A frigates and the aircraft carrier, INS Viraat. The acquisition was an evolution of an urgent Indian Navy requirement for a missile defence system, originally projected in 1988 to be DRDO's Trishul SAM. INS Brahmaputra was being built to accommodate the Trishul system, but even as the ship was being readied for launch, the latter had still not completed development. The ship eventually commissioned and was forced into a period which saw the vessel being equipped with no SAM system at all, until finally equipped with the Barak system a while later. At least 10 new Barak systems were to be purchased in follow-on batches.


The Barak incorporates a Rafael-developed advanced 22 kg blast fragmentation warhead that is optimized for penetration and detonation of enemy missiles. The warhead weight exceeds 22% of the 98 kg total missile weight - an unprecedented ratio in missile technology - giving it an effective large kill envelope, and the highest lethality against both soft and hard skin targets. The missile features a unique adaptive proximity fuse with a smart altimeter. This unprecedented sub-system allows unusually effective low level engagements. It incorporates a very short automatic engagement cycle that facilitates engagement of multiple threats, 'wave' and 'stream' attacks. It also has an alternative semi-auto mode that enables effective 'man-in-the-loop' operation. The missile's modular architecture facilitates integration with any existing or desired configuration of modern combat systems, including guns, leaving options for future growth and upgrading of the system. System configuration options include multiple Lines-of-Sight and a variable number of missiles. The missile is significantly more compact and lighter in weight than any other comparable existing system. Its space-saving design allows a wide range of installation options, suitable for existing and new vessels, from small strike craft to large ships. The Barak incorporates a maintenance-free, simple self-contained launcher with canisterized missiles based on the 'Wooden Round' concept. An extensive system BIT (Built-in-Test) assures high operational availability.

Initial test firings were carried out on 08 May 2003 and by 23 November 2003, press reports [2] indicated that two recent test firings of the Barak missile, off the coast of Mumbai, had resulted in failure of the first launch followed by a successful intercept. Nevertheless, a decision [3] to purchase the third batch of Barak systems for $100 million, was announced on 27 November 2003. Follow on press reports claimed on 17 December 2003, that a retrial would be conducted as the earlier tests had proven unsatisfactory. By 2005, final series of test firings had confirmed 100% hits on every type of anti-ship missile in the Indian Navy's inventory. INS Viraat was incorrectly assumed to be the first vessel to receive the system and misleading press reports would indicate that the ship received the Barak SAM as early as 1997. In reality, deck cutting for the VLS was completed only in early 2004 at CSL (Cochin Shipyard Ltd) while the ship was in refit. Final integration of the missile system among other weapon systems, commenced from August 2004 onwards. As of July 2005, confirmed recipients of the Barak system include two Type 15 Delhi Class destroyers, one (probably more) Type 16 Godavari Class frigate, three Type 16A Brahmaputra Class frigates, at least one Rajput (Kashin II) Class destroyer and the solitary aircraft carrier, INS Viraat.

On the Delhi Class, the two new EL/M-2221 STGRs replace the two MR-123-02 illuminators and perform as the fire control system for both the Barak SAM and the 30mm AK-630 CIWS, as does the single STGR on INS Viraat which replaces one Plessey Type 904 director. Aboard the latter, the two-screen console has been installed in the operations room. The entire Barak system is autonomous, automatically building an overall picture of the threat situation with automatic control of the engagement from detection to target destruction. Unlike other vessels, INS Viraat carries additional Barak rounds for reloads during operational deployment. One or more of the Rajput Class similarly have two of their aft MR-123-02s replaced by the STGR and their forward AK-630s replaced with the Barak, where the platform is elevated up to the height of the base of the STGR. On the P-16/16A frigates, the single EL/M-2221 STGR is installed directly above the bridge. This type has completely replaced the SA-N-4 Gecko with the Barak as the primary SAM system but carries only 24 missiles in 3 clusters of 8 VLS modules. IAI/Rafael have repeatedly offered to jointly develop a follow on Barak-2 [4] system, with a missile range of 70 km with Indian agencies but the actual status of the program is unknown. Live firings of the Barak-1 have been recorded on the Delhi Class destroyers, in particular, INS Mysore.

Thanks,

Miro.

P.S: - Guyz for more info please check my thread Indian Navy on Pak-Def.

 

[EagleEyes]

Dear Miro,

Its true that PAF has a dedicated fleet of Mirages near Karachi Port, and i believe they have enough of it to support the PN at least defensively.

<div class='bbimg'></div>

PAF acquired twelve Mirage-5PA3&#39;s in 1979 capable of using the Aerospatiale AM-39 Exocet anti-shipping missile

http://www.pakdef.info/###/airforc...ry/mirage3.html

Yes the anti-shipping Mirages have a variant of PA3 near Karachi port to help the PN. Also in the war time if more Mirages are needed for anti-shipping role they can be made in Kamra.

Regards,
More details soon.

 

[miroslav]

Modernization of Indian & Indian Polocies

An article by Saad Farooq

It brought no surprise to me to listen that India is building yet another aircraft carrier. After the addition of Admiral Gorshkov (formerly Baku) India will now is trying to get into the elite list of aircraft carrier manufacturing countries. India is certainly following Nehru who once said while addressing the Indian Navy; “To be good at land we should be supreme at the sea.” But think again by 2010 India will have at least two aircraft carriers operational in Indian Ocean. Other than aircraft carriers India is also manufacturing & buying modern frigates, destroyers and submarines in considerable numbers.

Well that was only navy when we see this expansion trend in Indian Air Force and Army we come to know that something really fishy is happening in the minds of Indian high ups .For example with regard to air force Indian air force has just put an order for 139 Mirage 2000.So what Indian air force will have after this addition? Probably they will have more than 400 frontline fourth generation aircrafts including Su 30, Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 with Mirage 2000 forming nearly half of the total figure. With the addition of AWACS and Air to Air Refueling System (AARS) the will be one of the most advance Asian air forces and they are still looking to develop stealth aircraft with Russian assistance. In terms of quantity they will be only second to China. Although China is developing J XX the next generation Chinese stealth aircraft but there is no credible information about China having any modern AWACS or AARS. For army India has bought nearly 300 latest T 90 tanks from Russia. India is also manufacturing different types of tanks and tracked vehicles.

Well this much level of weapons accumulation does not seem to be Pakistan oriented. India will never need to buy two or three aircraft carriers only to dominate 700 Km of coastal strip and India also does not need to invest so heavily in it&#39;s air force or army to dominate Pakistan. It already has enough air and ground resources to challenge Pakistan in all fields and outnumber it&#39;s armed forces 2 to 1 and in some cases 3 to 1. India Navy also has at least one nuclear submarine most probably of Russian origin. On the other hand Pakistan has only conventional submarines and strategic equation still tilts in favour of India.

The main reason for India&#39;s accumulation of conventional and non-conventional weaponry in large numbers is that it wants to emerge as a regional super power. Its intentions became more vivid when it forced Burma to flash out the rebels who were fighting against the Indian rule in neighboring Indian province from their forest hideouts in Burmese territory. Moreover India is supplying air force and navy of Burma and in near future of some other small neighboring countries with Indian equipment to make them dependent on India. Opening of a permanent military base in a Central Asian state is also a clear evidence that India is trying to spread it&#39;s influence in it&#39;s near and far surroundings.

The only contender of India in this influence race is it&#39;s bitter neighbor China. China already has a time-tested friend towards East of India and this friend of China is also largely dependent on China for large military needs of its air force and navy. There is also close co ordination between the army of two countries. Although China is still very much pre occupied with its Taiwan problem but it is also very actively spreading its influence especially among the third world countries around the globe. But as our topic relates to India rather than China so we move back to India. It is also being assessed by some people that India might even try to block America in Southern Pacific in near future after expanding it&#39;s influence from Indian Ocean.
America also have a smell of Indian intentions but they consider China a greater treat to America than India and that’s why they are supporting India and are developing it to counter China. So in this way both the countries will end up fighting each other and the threat to America will be neutralized. But Chinese most probably by guessing American thinking are fully supporting Pakistan both militarily and politically so that it can keep up fighting with India and India will become pre occupied with Pakistan as it is right now, thanks to quick Chinese thinking.

The most important thing in controlling a country is controlling the economy of that country and to control the economy of a country or region one must have control over the trade routes of that country or region and to control the trade routes one must control the waters of that region. To control the waters of that region a strong navy is required like the one Americans do have. That is why India is pursuing expansionist policies for it&#39;s armed forces and especially for it&#39;s navy. And most probably that’s why Nehru said, “To be good at land we should be supreme at the sea."

drom saadfarooq.tk

Miro

 

[EagleEyes]

Dear Saad Farooq,

Forget the dreams of controlling other countries economy&#33; India can&#39;t control Pakistan economy&#33; But the country who can is your big daddy. China&#33; Made in China, that what we find in almost every product on both countries. Sorry but i also heard a joke that even Indian gods are now being made in China.

The article also talks about that the country must control the trade routes of a country to be a super power of that region. Guess who is doing that? Again China for example Gawadar and same type of hub/base in Bangladesh in exchange of providing nuclear technology for energy purposes.

America will sure support India, and will keep supporting it untill it gets strong enough to fight with China, if you see it americans are typically sparking an arms race in Asia (this of course excludes the deal of F-16.) China will then also compete to get an edge in military, and the cycle will go on, and suddenly nationalism will develop, both countries will think they are strong and war will errupt.

War has to happen, and now what India needs to do is not fall in American support, stay with Russia, keep minimum defences to at least counter Chinese threat in the near future, be a strong ally of Russia (as it is going) expand trade, and build up its economy.

 

[Kaiser]

Dude that is nothing but 100% propaganda..It states that India will dominate Pakistan in the ground and air.How is that possible when during wartime all Pakistan has to do is go into mass production of its AGUSTO&#39;S,AL-KHALIDS,ARTILLERY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY JF-17 AND BABUR...but what will India start producing in wartime...your already failed LCA and limited Bhahmos.

 

[EagleEyes]

Originally posted by Kaiser@Nov 8 2005, 01:54 AM
Dude that is nothing but 100% propaganda..It states that India will dominate Pakistan in the ground and air.How is that possible when during wartime all Pakistan has to do is go into mass production of its AGUSTO&#39;S,AL-KHALIDS,ARTILLERY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY JF-17 AND BABUR...but what will India start producing in wartime...your already failed LCA and limited Bhahmos.

[post=2480]Quoted post[/post]​

Failed Brahmose? :w00t: Are you kidding me?

In this article some of the things are correct, but one thing that i dont know about is did India really ordered 139 Mirage-K? :w00t: