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Does PAF need (Strategic) Bombers?

Now a days every Tom Dick and Harry has a SAM which could go upto
65,000/ ft , A big bomber will go down within sec Yes they are usefull against countries who have no air defence like afghanistan. But a bomber entering Pakistan, India or China will go down within a couple of sec.
Why do you think PAF moved its Mirages on ADA in Peshawar ( fast Intercept)
 
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Now a days every Tom Dick and Harry has a SAM which could go upto
65,000/ ft , A big bomber will go down within sec Yes they are usefull against countries who have no air defence like afghanistan. But a bomber entering Pakistan, India or China will go down within a couple of sec.
Why do think PAF moved its Mirages on ADA in Peshawar ( fast Intercept)


Muradk is absolutely correct.

'Big bombers' are history and given Pakistan's potential threat - totally useless.
 
Stealthy and precision accurate UCAV's like Neuron or Terranis are PAF's future.

Not lumbering misguided carpet-bombers of yesteryear!




H-6?? With a guy looking down a faulty Chinese-made 1960s bombsite???!!! Do you think the Indians are thinking on the same level??? Of course not.

They're thinking stealth and GPS precision. Wake Up!

Again, & again, our dear comrads, doesnt take TERRORISTS as the major threat to pakistan, whatever there , point of view was , it still see indian air theart a major threat to pakistan.
What if, pakistan army, cant finish the job in fata?
what if, the comming new US president sent B-52's to finish the job?
what if, india+USA join hands togather to eliminate these militants, what will be the theater of war, then?


The SAM's are the major threat, to these bombers but , again how many B-52's went down in IRAQ , in AFGHANISTAN?

f-16s, thunders, or all the other fighters can strike, can hit there stratagic targets, for sure! but they cant do carpet bombings?
thier role can be, much easier, if they go looking just for SAM's, i guss no SHOULDER OPREATED SAM's had the capabilty to hit the target above 20,000 feet attitude, to take these high flying birds, there shouldbe a strong compactable SAM system! to take these high attitude bombers.

Actully , PAF doesnt needs the bombers, but yes pakarmy, surely needs them because , its not PAF's MISSION to fight terrorism on the ground?
I am, not saying that these bombers have any place in PAF , inventry but , i am 1000% sure that rightly PAKISTAMN ARAMY needed them mostly now.:tup:
As , pakistan army is to flash out these terrorists from the tribal areas, they need carpet bombings to let these terrorists, understand that they cant, form any sort of army against PAKISTAN ARMY, and PA , can hunt them in just several hours!:azn:


16 killed in Bajaur
By Anwarullah Khan

KHAR, Sept 27: Sixteen militants were killed and several others were injured on Saturday in fierce fighting between security forces and local Taliban in Bajaur.

Residents and Frontier Corps sources told Dawn that “hundreds of militants” attacked security posts in Tang Khatha, Kausar, Rashkai, and Khazana of tehsil Khar early in the morning. The skirmishes continued for three hours till 8 am.

Security forces targeted positions of militants with mortar and cannon shells. Helicopter gunships also pounded suspected hideouts of militants.
Later, jet fighters rushed to the area shelling and bombing militants’ positions till late in the night, silencing the militants’ guns.
The gunbattle was so fierce that windowpanes of several houses got smashed, a resident said, adding that thick smoke was seen billowing in the air from places which were bombed.

However, just a few minutes after Iftar, militants regrouped and responded with heavy weapons.
The FC sources said that 16 militants were killed and over 22 were injured in the crossfire till Saturday night.

Earlier in the day, security officials claimed that the troops had reached near Delay, a stronghold of Taliban, just one kilometre from Lowi Sam and cleared Karela, Nisarabad, Rashakai, Kausar and Khazana and areas near Lowi Sam of militants.

However, independent sources said security forces were facing stiff resistance in these areas.
 
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bat - i can understand your emotions but what u say just dosnt make sense - army operating bombers and strategic bombers at that. lets be realistic with our conspiracy theories.
when a decorated PAF pilot (MK) says we dont need them, he must have a logical reason for that!
 
bat - i can understand your emotions but what u say just dosnt make sense - army operating bombers and strategic bombers at that. lets be realistic with our conspiracy theories.
when a decorated PAF pilot (MK) says we dont need them, he must have a logical reason for that!

Dear hounrable, fatman17; sir
belive me that i wasnt , emotional at all , when i was writting the above post.
i guss, i couldnt understand , your point of view regarding, pakistan army's just need of a specific bomber. i guss, PAKISTAN ARMY has already got its own air wing, so why cant, it cant get its own flying battle ship.
why, it will effect PAF?
And why you think that only a decorated PAF pilot (MK) of PAF had the athourity to select or decide, what type of weapon pakistan need?

i , guss that pakistan defence fourm is doing the right role, to disscuss and give full details for any of purposed purchase of weapons.
I realy dont get, what you are thinking about conspiracy theories, but a lot of conspiracy theories, happened to be real ones.

i think , you can have look on , BARAK OBAMA vs JHON MACCAINs ideas on war of terror , and about pakistan, why you think that , any of these people's CANT DO WHAT THEY ARE SAYING NOW?:hitwall:
ANYWAY, i am posting you a good story about RUSSIAN BOMBERS in Venezuela, & thier dangerous impact on USA.
I certenly hope that you would find it, very intersting for sure, and also it wil make you understand the important role of a BOMBER JET.:enjoy:
THANKS



BMD Focus: U.S. vulnerable to Tu-160s tu-160-bg.jpg

The Tu-160 deployments and flights carry an ominous message to President George W. Bush and whoever his successor is following November's elections: If Russia permanently deploys its Tu-160s in Venezuela, the United States could be at a greater risk than at any time since the darkest days of the Cold War.
by Martin Sieff
Washington (UPI) Sep 17, 2008

Russia keeps upping the ante in its retaliatory moves for the greatly expanded U.S. and NATO presence in the Black Sea to support the former Soviet republic of Georgia. On Monday, the two Tupolev Tu-160 White Swan nuclear bombers it sent to Venezuela Sept. 10 carried out a six-hour patrol over the Caribbean Sea.
The RIA Novosti news agency Monday cited a Russian air force spokesman as saying the two Tu-160s -- NATO designation Blackjack -- were equipped only with dummy missiles without warheads.

Fiercely anti-American Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was so pleased to host the Tu-160s that he scheduled a personal audience with their crews Tuesday, the news agency said.

RIA Novosti also announced the two bombers would fly back to their home air base in southern Russia from Venezuela's Libertador Air Base on Wednesday, three days later than their originally announced departure date.

"The aircraft will take off from an airfield near Caracas on Sept. 18 and conduct a 15-hour return flight to Russia. Their landing at a base in Engels (Saratov region) is scheduled for Sept. 19," said Russian air force Lt. Col. Vladimir Drik.

The symbolism was very obvious. The United States had infuriated the Russians by sending warships in support of Georgia to the Black Sea, which has been a virtual Russian lake for the past 250 years. So the Russians sent two of their most formidable nuclear bombers over the Caribbean Sea, which has been an American preserve for well over a century.

But the Tu-160 deployments and flights carry a far more ominous message to President George W. Bush and whoever his successor is following November's elections: If Russia permanently deploys its Tu-160s in Venezuela, the United States could be at a greater risk than at any time since the darkest days of the Cold War.

For the Mach-2, 1,380 mph, super-long-range Tu-160s can carry stand-off X-555 cruise missiles with a range of 2,000 miles. That means that from a base in Venezuela, they could "loiter" over the Caribbean for 10 or more hours at a time with a capability of firing their Mach 2.8 cruise missiles that are capable of flying around 1,800 mph at sea level and hugging ground contours so their exact flight path could not be intercepted in advance with a range that could hit almost any target in the entire United States.
Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has let virtually all its domestic defenses against manned bomber attacks vanish. The Blackjacks would fly well "under the umbrella" of even Patriot PAC-3 and U.S. Navy Standard Missile-3 anti-ballistic missiles, none of which are designed for manned aircraft interception. The cold fact is that the United States currently has no missile defense system capable of knocking down a Blackjack missile attack or of preventing a cruise missile launch unless combat fighter aircraft -- which are only a few hundred miles per hour faster than the Mach-2 Blackjacks -- can intercept them.
RIA Novosti described the Tu-160 Blackjack as "a supersonic, variable-geometry heavy bomber designed to strike strategic targets with nuclear and conventional weapons deep in continental theaters of operation."
The news agency cited a Russian air force spokesman as saying the two Tu-160s were equipped only with dummy missiles without warheads.

But, of course, if Tu-160s were to be based permanently at Libertador Air Base, or elsewhere in Venezuela in the future, the missiles they carried might not always be dummy ones.
 
Its all about payload. Modern fighter jets have enough lifting power (payload) or say max take off weight that they can carry sufficient bomb load. For example on triple ejector racks, a single F-16 can carry twelve (12) 500lb bombs. An F-15E Strike Eagle carries almost 24,000lb of payload. So new fighters have replaced medium bombers.

France has retired its Mirage-IV strategic nuclear bombers and now the role is fulfilled by smaller Mirage-2000D. UK has long retired its V-bombers.

Nowadays the emphasis is on accurate delivery of bombs rather than showering inaccurate bombs.

Even in Iraq, in later days, USN F-14s had to use their guns to take out targets on ground. Here I must add that those F-14 were Bombcats and could deliver bombs. Use of guns was meant to reduce collateral damage.

Inisde Paksitan, the use of unguided bombs is just a mad act. Even the Cobra gunships have wounded/killed children in Bajaur and its unthinkable of a pilot of Pak Army to fire his gun on children. It means there are some cowards in our ranks. Unrestricted use of brute force only brings disaster as in East Pakistan.
 
CASA CN -235
The CN-235 is a medium-range twin-turbo-prop aircraft developed jointly between CASA in Spain and IPTN in Indonesia as a regional airliner and military transport. Amongst its military roles are maritime patrol, surveillance and troop transport. The biggest user of this transport aircraft is Turkey. The Turkish air force operates 52 CN-235-100M, and the Coast Guard and Navy operates 9 CN-235MP aircraft.

Design and development

The project was a joint venture between CASA and Indonesian manufacturer IPTN, which formed Airtech company to manage the programme. Responsibility for design and production was shared at 50% between the two companies. The partnership applied only to the Series 10 and Series 100/110, with later versions being developed independently.

Design began in January 1980 with first flight on 11 November 1983. Spanish and Indonesian certification was on 20 June 1986; the first flight of the production aircraft was on 19 August 1986 and FAA type approval was granted on 3 December 1986. The aircraft entered service on 1 March 1988

In 1995, CASA launched development of a stretched CN-235 as the C-295

The CN-235 was selected by the United States Coast Guard for its Medium Range Surveillance Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MRSMPA) program as the HC-144A .[1] The first HC-144A was delivered by EADS CASA to Lockheed Martin for installation of the mission package in December 2006.[2]

In August 2006, three CASA CN-235-10 aircraft remain in airline service, in Africa, with Safair (two) and Tiko Air (one).[3] Asian Spirit operates a sole CN-235-220 in the Philippines, correct as of June/July 2007.

The Irish Air Corps operates two CASA aircraft in the maritime patrol capacity.

There are at least two CN-235s operating with the [[United States Air Force for an undisclosed role with the 427th Special Operations Squadron, at the former Pope AFB, NC.[4][verification needed]

In early July, The Mexican Navy announced they will order six CASA CN-235 from Spain.

Variants

CN235-10: Initial production version (15 built by each company), with GE CT7-7A engines.
CN235-100/110: Generally as series 10, but with GE CT7-9C engines in new composites nacelles; replaced Series 10 in 1988 from 31st production aircraft. Series 100 is Spanish-built, series 110 Indonesian-built, with improved electrical, warning and environmental systems.
CN235-200/220: Improved version. Structural reinforcements to cater for higher operating weights, aerodynamic improvements to wing leading-edges and rudder, reduced field length requirements and much-increased range with maximum payload. Series 200 is Spanish-built, Series 220 Indonesian-built.
CN235-300: CASA Modification of 200/220 series, with Honeywell avionics suite. Other features include improved pressurisation and provision for optional twin nosewheel installation.
CN235-330 Phoenix: Modification of Series 200/220, offered by IPTN with new Honeywell avionics, ARL-2002 EW system and 16.800 kg/37.037 lb MTOW, to Royal Australian Air Force to meet Project Air 5190 tactical airlift requirement, but was forced by financial constraints to withdraw in 1998.
CN235 MPA: Maritime patrol version
HC-144 Ocean Sentry: U.S. Coast Guard aircraft designed to replace the HU-25 Guardian.

Military operators


A CASA CN-235-300 MPA of the Spanish Coast Guard
A CASA CN-235 of the Spanish Air Force
A CASA CN-235M-100 of the Royal Moroccan Air Force produced by TAI
A CASA CN-235-220M of the Royal Malaysian Air Force landed in unknown air base. Botswana
Botswana Air Force
Template:Bophutatswana
Bophutatswana Air Force (1 incorporated into South African Air Force)
Brunei
Brunei Air Force (1)
Chile
Chilean Army (4 CN-235-100) One lost in Antarctica
Colombia
Colombian Air Force
Colombian National Armada
Ecuador
Ecuadorian Air Force
France
French Air Force (19 CN235-100, 18 updated in CN235-200 configuration).
Gabon
Gabonese Air Force
Indonesia
Indonesian Air Force (Operating CN235-100M, CN235-220M, CN235MPA)
Ireland
Irish Air Corps (2 x CN235MP)
Jordan
Royal Jordanian Air Force (2)
Malaysia
Royal Malaysian Air Force (8 x CN235-220)
Mexico
Mexican Navy (2 x CN235-300 ordered)
Morocco
Moroccan Air Force (7)
Pakistan
Pakistan Air Force (4 x CN235-220)
Panama
Panamanian Air Force
Papua New Guinea
Papua New Guinea Defence Force
Republic of Korea
Republic of Korea Air Force (20)
Saudi Arabia
Royal Saudi Air Force
South Africa
South African Air Force (1)
Spain
Spanish Air Force (20)
Spanish Coast Guard
Turkey
Turkish Air Force (50 x CN235-100M)
Turkish Navy (6 x CN-235 ASW/ASuW MPA with AMASCOS (Airborne Maritime Situation & Control System) of Thales)
Turkish Coast Guard (3 x CN-235 MPA with AMASCOS (Airborne Maritime Situation & Control System) of Thales)
United Arab Emirates
UAE Navy
United States
U.S. Coast Guard (8 HC-144s ordered)

[edit] Government and paramilitary operators
Thailand
Royal Thai Police (1 x CN235-300)
United States
CIA via non-US Government US civilian contractor (CN235-300M); preferred aircraft for rendition flights

Specifications (CN-235-100)
General characteristics

Crew: two, pilot and co-pilot
Capacity: up to 45 passengers
Length: 21.40 m (70 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 25.81 m (84 ft 8 in)
Height: 8.18 m (26 ft 10 in)
Wing area: 59.1 m² (636 ft²)
Empty weight: 9,800 kg (21,605 lb)
Loaded weight: 15,500 kg (16,500 kg Military load) (34,172 lb (36,376 lb))
Max takeoff weight: 15,100 kg (33,290 lb)
Powerplant: 2× General Electric CT7C turboprop, 1,395 kW (1,850 bhp) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 509 km/h (317 mph)
Range: 5,003 km with max fuel / 2,870 km with 4,000 kg payload (3,108 miles with max fuel / 1,783 miles with 8,818 lb payload)
Service ceiling 9,145 m (30,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 542 m/min (1,780 ft/min)

180px-Casa_cn235_001.jpg

180px-Orbat-cn235.jpg

800px-Salvamento_Maritimo_CASA_CN-235-300_EC-KEL.jpg
 
Its all about payload. Modern fighter jets have enough lifting power (payload) or say max take off weight that they can carry sufficient bomb load. For example on triple ejector racks, a single F-16 can carry twelve (12) 500lb bombs. An F-15E Strike Eagle carries almost 24,000lb of payload. So new fighters have replaced medium bombers.

France has retired its Mirage-IV strategic nuclear bombers and now the role is fulfilled by smaller Mirage-2000D. UK has long retired its V-bombers.

Nowadays the emphasis is on accurate delivery of bombs rather than showering inaccurate bombs.

Even in Iraq, in later days, USN F-14s had to use their guns to take out targets on ground. Here I must add that those F-14 were Bombcats and could deliver bombs. Use of guns was meant to reduce collateral damage.

Inisde Paksitan, the use of unguided bombs is just a mad act. Even the Cobra gunships have wounded/killed children in Bajaur and its unthinkable of a pilot of Pak Army to fire his gun on children. It means there are some cowards in our ranks. Unrestricted use of brute force only brings disaster as in East Pakistan.
Dear shehbazi2001, sir
there is a list of bombers, which are in use of the major military mights of the world including , france, uk, russia, usa.
i, just want to ask , a simple question to you.
How brutal were TALIBANS are in thier terrorists activities in side pakistan?
Does guided bombs are ungetteble for pakistan?:tsk::eek:
I havent, seen anywhere in the world,in any kind of war, that there a military facing , its enemy and thinking about collateral damage. any military cant stop its advances, or cant stop its opreations against its enemies, just because of so-called collateral damages, anyway there are a lot of collateral damage already been done there & it is still going on, because pakistan army had to face hard tailiban resistance on thr ground.:agree:
i, think we can put some lasser - guided bombs , on some of the bomber jet, and then we can have our enemy, in just sevral hours?:whistle:
it is greatly, needed to understand that, talibans are the enemy of state called PAKISTAN , & they should be treated like an enemy?:azn:
ALL THE BEST





1946-CURRENT
Canada
CP-140A Arcturus (maritime patrol)
Canadair CP-107 Argus (maritime patrol)
France
Breguet Alizé (anti-submarine aircraft)
Breguet Atlantique (maritime patrol)
Dassault Étendard VI (fighter-bomber)
Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard (attack aircraft)
Dassault Mirage IV (strategic bomber)
Dassault Mirage 2000N
Sud Aviation Vautour (fighter-bomber)
CHINA
Harbin H-5 (medium bomber)
Q-5 Fantan (attack aircraft)
Tu-4 Bull (strategic bomber)
Xian H-8
Xian JH-7 (fighter-bomber)
Xian H-6 (medium bomber)

United States

Boeing P-8 Poseidon (maritime patrol)
B-36 Peacemaker (heavy bomber)
B-45 Tornado (reconnaissance bomber)
B-47 Stratojet (strategic bomber)
B-50 Superfortress (strategic bomber)
B-52 Stratofortress (strategic bomber)
B-57 Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
B-58 Hustler (strategic bomber)
B-66 Destroyer (light bomber)
Douglas Skyraider (attack aircraft)
Douglas A-4 (attack aircraft)
XB-70 Valkyrie (strategic bomber prototype)
General Dynamics F-111 (fighter-bomber)
Grumman AF Guardian (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman S-2 Tracker (anti-submarine aircraft)
Grumman A-6 (attack aircraft)
F-117 Nighthawk (stealth attack aircraft)
Lockheed P2V Neptune (maritime patrol)
Lockheed P-3 Orion (maritime patrol)
Lockheed S-3 Viking (anti-submarine aircraft)
Martin P5M Marlin (maritime patrol)
Martin AM Mauler (attack aircraft)
North American A-5 (reconnaissance bomber)
Northrop B-2 Spirit (stealth bomber)
Republic A-10 (attack aircraft)
Rockwell B-1 Lancer (strategic bomber)
Vought A-7 (attack aircraft)

USSR/Russia

Beriev Be-10 (maritime patrol)
Beriev Be-12 (maritime patrol)
Ilyushin Il-28 (medium bomber)
Ilyushin Il-38 (maritime patrol)
Mikoyan MiG-25 (reconnaissance/bomber)
Mikoyan MiG-27 (attack aircraft)
Myasishchev M-4 (strategic bomber)
Myasishchev M-50 (strategic bomber prototype)
Sukhoi Su-7 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-17 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi Su-24 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-25 (attack aircraft)
Sukhoi Su-34 (fighter-bomber)
Sukhoi T-4 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-4 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-14 (light/torpedo bomber)
Tupolev Tu-16 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22 (medium bomber)
Tupolev Tu-22M (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-85 (strategic bomber prototype)
Tupolev Tu-95 (strategic bomber)
Tupolev Tu-142 (maritime patrol)
Tupolev Tu-160 (strategic bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-26 (tactical bomber)
Yakovlev Yak-28 (reconnaissance/tactical bomber)



Netherlands
Fokker F-27 maritime (maritime patrol)

United Kingdom

Avro Lincoln (heavy bomber)
Avro Shackleton (maritime patrol)
Avro Vulcan (strategic bomber)
Bristol Brigand (topedo bomber)
BAC TSR-2 (tactical strike/reconnaissance prototype)
English Electric Canberra (reconnaissance bomber)
Fairey Gannet (attack aircraft)
Handley Page Victor (strategic bomber)
Hawker-Siddeley Nimrod (maritime patrol)
Vickers Valiant (strategic bomber)

I guss, what we need is right lasser guided weapon, with acurate performence, why dont ask our great friend (USA), TO PROVIDE US THESE BABIES?

LASSER GUIDED BOMBS
lgb.jpg

lgb-fam.jpg

"In World War II it could take 9,000 bombs to hit a target the size of an aircraft shelter. In Vietnam, 300. Today we can do it with one laser-guided munition from an F-117."
USAF, Reaching Globally, Reaching Powerfully: The United States Air Force in the Gulf War (Sept. 1991), p. 55.
The development of laser quidided weapons has dramatically improved the accuracy of weapon quidance and delivery. With the assistance of build-up guidance kits, general GP bombs are turned into laser-guided bombs (LGBs). The kits consist of a computer- control group (CCG), guidance canards attached to the front of the warhead to provide steering commands, and a wing assembly attached to the aft end to provide lift. LGBs are maneuverable, free-fall weapons requiring no electronic interconnect to the aircraft. They have an internal semiactive guidance system that detects laser energy and guides the weapon to a target illuminated by an external laser source. The designator can be located in the delivery aircraft, another aircraft, or a ground source.

All LGB weapons have a CCG, a warhead (bomb body with fuze), and an airfoil group. The computer section transmits directional command signals to the appropriate pair(s) of canards. The guidance canards are attached to each quadrant of the control unit to change the flightpath of the weapon. The canard deflections are always full scale (referred to as "bang, bang" guidance).

The LGB flightpath is divided into three phases: ballistic, transition, and terminal guidance. During the ballistic phase, the weapon continues on the unguided trajectory established by the flightpath of the delivery aircraft at the moment of release. In the ballistic phase, the delivery attitude takes on additional importance, since maneuverability of the UGB is related to the weapon velocity during terminal guidance. Therefore, airspeed lost during the ballistic phase equates to a proportional loss of maneuverability. The transition phase begins at acquisition. During the transition phase, the weapon attempts to align its velocity vector with the line-of-sight vector to the target. During terminal guidance, the UGB attempts to keep its velocity vector aligned with the instantaneous line-of- sight. At the instant alignment occurs, the reflected laser energy centers on the detector and commands the canards to a trail position, which causes the weapon to fly ballistically with gravity biasing towards the target.



Target designators are semi-active illuminators used to "tag" a target. Typical laser guided bomb receivers use an array of photodiodes to derive target position signals. These signals are translated into control surface movements to direct the weapon to the target. An airborne detector can provide steering information to the pilot, via his gunsight, for example, and lead him on a direct heading to the target, finally giving him an aim point for a conventional weapon. Alternatively, a laser guided "smart" bomb or missile may be launched when a pilot is satisfied that the detector head has achieved lock-on and the launch envelope requirements are satisfied. In either of these cases, the pilot may never see the actual target, only the aim point as indicated by the laser.
Laser designators and seekers use a pulse coding system to ensure that a specific seeker and designator combination work in harmony. By setting the same code in both the designator and the seeker, the seeker will track only the target designated by the designator. The pulse coding is based on Pulse Repetition Frequency (PRF). The designator and seeker pulse codes use a truncated decimal system. This system uses the numerical digits 1 through 8 and the codes are directly correlated to a specific PRF. Dependent upon the laser equipment, either a three digit or a four digit code can be set. Coding allows simultaneous or nearly simultaneous attacks on multiple targets by a single aircraft, or flights of aircraft, dropping laser guided weapons (LGWs) set on different codes. This tactic may be employed when several high priority targets need to be expeditiously attacked and can be designated simultaneously by the supported unit(s).


Fire control laser systems are laser rangefinders (LRFs) and laser designators (LDs). These laser systems can be far more harmful to the eye than laser training devices such as MILES and Air-to-Ground Engagement System/Air Defense (AGES/AD) laser simulators. Consequently, fire control lasers require control measures to prevent permanent blindness to an unprotected individual viewing the laser system from within the laser beam.
PAVE PENNY (AN/AAS-35): Laser tracker pod used on the A-10 and A-7 aircraft. Does not contain a laser.
PAVE SPECTRE (AN/AVQ-19): Laser tracking and designator used on C-130 gunships.
PAVE SPIKE (AN/AVQ-12): Laser tracking and designator pod fitted on F-4 and F-111 aircraft.
PAVE TACK (AN/AVQ-26): Advanced optronics pod containing stabilized turret with FLIR, laser designator and tracker used on the F-4, RF-4, and F-111F aircraft.
The following systems are not in the active inventory but are included for information
PAVE ARROW (AN/AVQ-14): This was a laser tracker pod developed for use in conjunction with the PAVE SPOT laser designator used on O-2A FAC spotter planes, C-123, and was planned for use on the F-100. It was eventually merged with the PAVE SWORD program.
PAVE BLIND BAT: The PAVE BLIND BAT consisted of a laser target designator to illuminate targets for the PAVE WAY guided bombs. The PAVE BLIND BAT had an effective range of 18,000 feet and was developed for use by AC-130 gunships to aid supporting fighter aircraft.
PAVE FIRE: Development of laser scanner to aid F-4 Phantoms in securing proper target bearing.
PAVE GAT: Development of a laser rangefinder for use on the B-52G.
PAVE KNIFE (AN/ALQ-10): The original laser designator pod developed by Aeronutronic-Ford and used in combat in Vietnam.
PAVE LANCE: Developmental effort to replace the PAVE KNIFE by improving night capability with the addition of a FLIR in place of the low light television (LLTV). Superseded by PAVE TACK.
PAVE LIGHT (AN/AVQ-9): Stabilized laser designator developed for the F-4 Phantom.
PAVE NAIL (AN/AVQ-13): Modification of 18 OV-10 FAC aircraft with stabilized periscopic night sight and laser designator. Program coordinated with PAVE PHANTOM and PAVE SPOT.
PAVE PHANTOM: Addition of an ARN-92 Loran and computer to the F-4D allowing aircraft to store targeting information for eight separate positions illuminated by OV-10 PAVE NAIL.
PAVE PRONTO: Modification of AC-130 gunships for night attack including an LLTV Electro systems night observation camera, AAD-4, or AAD-6 FLIR and AVQ-17 illuminator.
PAVE SCOPE: Target acquisition aids for jet fighter aircraft such as the Eagle Eye (LAD) AN/AVG-8, and TISEO.
PAVE SHIELD: Classified project undertaken by Aeronautical Research Associates.
PAVE SPOT (AN/AVQ-12): Stabilized periscopic night vision sight developed by Varo for use on the O-2A FAC. The system was fitted with a Korad laser designator (ND:YAG).
PAVE STRIKE: A related group of air-to-ground strike programs include PAVE TACK and IR guided bombs.
PAVE SWORD (AN/AVQ-11): Laser tracker designed to pick up energy from targets illuminated by O-2A spotter planes. Used on F-4, and bore sighted with its radar set.

LGBs are not a "cure all" for the full spectrum of targets and scenarios facing fighter/attack aircraft, but they do offer advantages in standoff and accuracy over other types of free fall weapons in the inventory. In a high threat environment, LGB will be employed in a range of missions from close air support [CAS] to interdiction.
LGB are excellent performers in dive deliveries initiated from medium altitude. A steep, fast dive attack increases LGB maneuvering potential and flight ability. Medium altitude attacks generally reduce target acquisition problems and more readily allow for target designation by either ground or airborne designation platforms. Medium altitude LGB dive delivery tactics are normally used in areas of low to medium threat.


LGBs can miss the target if the laser is turned on too early. During certain delivery profiles where the LGB sees laser energy as soon as it is released, it can turn from its delivery profile too soon and miss by falling short of the target. To prevent this, the laser designator must be turned on at the time that will preclude the bomb from turning down toward the target prematurely. Normally, the pilot knows the proper moment for laser on. The specific LGB and the delivery tactics of the fighter/attack aircraft dictates the minimum designation time required to guide the weapon to the intended target.

The effects of smoke, dust, and debris can impair the use of laser-guided munitions. The reflective scattering of laser light by smoke particles may present false targets. Rain, snow, fog, and low clouds can prevent effective use of laser-guided munitions. Heavy precipitation can limit the use of laser designators by affecting line-of-sight. Snow on the ground can produce a negative effect on laser-guided munition accuracy. Fog and low clouds will block the laser-guided munition seeker's field of view which reduces the guidance time. This reduction may affect the probability of hit.
The three generations of Paveway LGB technology exist, each successive generation representing a change or modification in the guidance mechanism. Paveway I was a series of laser guided bombs with fixed wings. Paveway II [with retractable wings] and Paveway III are the Air Force designations for 500- and 2,000-pound-class laser-guided bombs (LGBs). A guidance control unit is attached to the front of the bomb, and a wing assembly is attached on the rear. Both generations are compatible with current Army, Navy (Marine), and Air Force designators. Paveway II and III have preflight selectable coding. Paveway III is the third-generation LGB, commonly called the low-level laser-guided bomb (LLLGB). It is designed to be used under relatively low ceilings, from low altitude, and at long standoff ranges.


Designation Guideance System Munition
GBU-2 KMU-421/B SUU-54/b 2000-lb cluster bomb
PAVEWAY I
GBU-10 A/B KMU-351 A/B Mk 84 2000-lb bomb
GBU-12 A/B KMU-388 A/B Mk 82 500-lb SNAKEYE
GBU-12 A/B KMU-420 /B Mk 20 Mod 2 ROCKEYE 500-lb bomb
GBU-12 A/B KMU-342 /B M117 750-lb bomb
PAVEWAY II
GBU-10 D/B KMU-351 E/B Mk 84 2000-lb bomb
GBU-12 C/B KMU-388 C/B Mk 82 SNAKEYE 500-lb bomb
GBU-16 C/B KMU-455 /B Mk 83 1000-lb bomb



During Desert Storm, the F-111F and the F-117 accounted for the majority of the guided bomb tonnage delivered against strategic targets. The Navy's A-6E capability to deliver LGBs was used only sparingly, despite the fact that the 115 A-6Es deployed constituted almost 51 percent of all US LGB-capable aircraft on the first day of Desert Storm. laser sensor systems demonstrated degradation from adverse weather, such as clouds, rain, fog, and even haze and humidity.

Videotapes of LGBs precisely traveling down ventilator shafts and destroying targets with one strike, like those televised during and after Desert Storm, can easily create impressions about the effect of a single LGB on a single target, which was summed up by an LGB manufacturer's claim for effectiveness: "one target, one bomb." The implicit assumption in this claim is that a target is sufficiently damaged or destroyed to avoid needing to hit it again with a second bomb, thus obviating the need to risk pilots or aircraft in restrikes. However, evidence does not support the claim for LGB effectiveness summarized by "one target, one bomb." In one sample of targets from Desert Storm, no fewer than two LGBs were dropped on each target; six or more were dropped on 20 percent of the targets; eight or more were dropped on 15 percent of the targets. The average dropped was four LGBs per target.

In Desert Storm, 229 US aircraft were capable of delivering laser-guided munitions. By 1996 the expanded installation of low-altitude navigation and targeting infrared for night (LANTIRN) pods on F-15Es and block 40 F-16s had increased this capability within the Air Force to approximately 500 platforms.

Sources and Resources

JP 3-09.1, Joint Laser Designation Procedures, 1 June 1991, [PDF Size = 835K but well worth the wait]
Joint Laser Designation Procedures Training and Doctrine Command Procedures Pamphlet 34-3
Safety information Laser Fire Control Systems Mil-Handbook-828, 1993
Fundamentals of Lasers
LASER RANGE SAFETY Range Commanders Council, White Sands Missile Range, OCTOBER 1998

Laser Guided Munitions CHAPTER 7 TACTICS, TECHNIQUES, AND PROCEDURES FOR THE STRIKE / RECON PLATOON (STRIKER)
Techno-Tips on Laser Guided Bombs
 
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there is another choice what we have, again CHINA?
YES.
LT-2 LASER GUIDED BOMB

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The LeiTing-2 (LT-2, LeiTing = “Thunder”), also known as GB1 in its export name, is the first Chinese domestically built laser guided bomb (LGB) that has entered operational service with the PLA. First revealed to the public in October 2006, the LT-2 bears a great deal of similarity to the Russian KAB-500L in appearance, suggesting that it may be a licensed or reverse-engineered copy of the Russian design. The 500kg bomb can be carried by a range of aircraft including JH-7, Q-5, FC-1, J-8B, and J-10. The weapon entered the PLA service in 2003/04.

China has been developing the LGB technology since the late 1980s, but with no known success before the introduction of the LT-2. Initially the Chinese LGB development used the U.S. design as a prototype. In the early 1990s China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO) revealed a LGB similar to the U.S. Paveway-II in appearance. The bomb features a laser guidance kit at the front end of the weapon; four front guidance fins (canards) which react to signals from the laser guidance kit and steer the weapon to the target, and four larger stabilising fins at rear.

Development of the LGB accelerated after 2000 with Russian assistance. A full scale mockup of the Xi’an Aircraft Industry Corporation JH-7A fighter-bomber revealed in early 2002 featured an unknown model LGB. The fighter-bomber could guide the weapon using its own onboard laser targeting pod (self-designation). China has also developed a range of laser targeting pods to be carried by combat aircraft for weapon guidance. An early design known as “Blue Sky” introduced in the late 1990s appeared to be similar to the U.S. LANTIRN navigation and targeting pod.

The LT-2 uses a semi-active laser guidance system, which requires a laser designator to “illuminate” the target for the weapon. The LT-2 could be guided by a laser targeting pod either carried by the same aircraft or onboard another aircraft. Alternatively it could also be guided by a land-based laser designator operated by the ground crew. The operational range is 15km for the airborne laser targeting pod and 7km for the land-based laser designator. The accuracy is estimated to be around 6.5m CEP.

Specifications

Launch weight: 564kg
Length: 3530mm
Diameter: 377mm
Wingspan: 950mm
Warhead: N/A
Range: >10km
Guidance: Laser
Accuracy: 6.5m CEP
 
KAB-1500Kr TV-Guided Bombkab1500kr_01.jpg

At the 2003 Moscow Air Show, the Russian Region Bureau revealed that it had sold its 1,525kg (3,335lbs) KAB-1500 series guided bomb to the PLAAF in 2002. Although the report did not reveal the specific model of the bomb sold to China, it is believed to be the KAB-1500Kr which uses a “TV correlation homing” guidance system. Most likely using pre-loaded image-intelligence data of the target, the bomb’s guidance system “locks on” to the target area while still on the aircraft, and then is automatically guided to the target. Such a system requires clear weather, but allows the attacking aircraft to initiate defensive manoeuvres immediately after dropping the bomb, instead of “dwelling” over the target as it would for a laser guided bomb. The bomb can carry high explosive, deep penetrating or thermobaric warheads.

KAB-500Kr TV-Guided Bomb

The smaller 500kg (1,100lbs) KAB-500 developed by Russian Region Bureau was seen carried by the PLAAF Su-30MKK fighter-bombers. The bomb uses TV correlation homing and come in versions with runway penetrating or thermobaric warheads. It can also be carried by Chinese indigenous fighter and attack aircraft such as Xi’an JH-7, Nanchang Q-5, and Chengdu J-10. A satellite guided variant known as KAB-500S-E bomb was also developed by Region Bureau.

LS-6 Precision Guided Glide Bombkab1500kr_01.jpg

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The LeiShi-6 (LS-6, LeiShi = “Thunder Stone”) precision guided glide bomb was first revealed in October 2006. The weapon comprises a conventional 500kg general purpose bomb and guidance and range-extension package developed by Luoyang Optoelectro Technology Development Centre (LOEC). The package is a GPS/INS-based guidance and targeting system, along with a pair of foldable wings, which, after bolting onto the bomb, transforms the weapon into a “stand-off” precision guided ammunition.

The weapon package allows conventional “dumb” bombs to be converted into smart weapons. The package provides both guidance and navigation to a target, in all-weather day/nigh conditions with great accuracy. The wings, which extend from a compact folded position upon deployment, give the bomb a great deal of manoeuvrability. Such a capability would allow the pilot to release the weapon from a standoff distance to protect both himself and the aircraft from surface-to-air weapon threats. When released from an altitude of 10,000m, the LS-6 could attack a point target 60km away at a speed of Mach 1 with an accuracy of better than 15m. When assisted by an auxiliary propulsion system, the weapon can reach a maximum range of 300km.

Chinese official says "about a dozen" launch tests of the LS-6 precision bomb kit have been carried out using a Shenyang J-8B as the test aircraft. The program began in 2003, with testing completed by 2006. A family of weapons is planned. It is not known whether the weapon has been equipped by the PLA. An obvious weakness of the weapon is its reliance on foreign satellite navigation systems such as the U.S. GPS and Russian GLONASS. However, China is expected to be able to deploy its own independent global satellite positioning and navigation system within the next ten years. Once fully deployed, the PLA would possess capabilities similar to the U.S. Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM).:tup::agree:

Specifications

Launch weight: 540kg
Length: 300mm
Diameter: 377mm
Wingspan: 2,740mm
Warhead: 440kg HE
Range: 40km (released at an altitude of 8,000m); 60km (released at an altitude of 10,000m)
Guidance: GPS + INS
Accuracy: 15m CEP
 
Batmannow..........The point is that NORMALLY big bombers deliver unguided Iron bombs. Only exceptionally and with rare upgrades can they deliver Laser Guided Bombs (LGBs)............

At one time, you can designate one target with laser and you dont want all of your 50 bombs to hit the same spot. You want your 50 bombs to cover an area and I think its still not possible to designate 50 separate targets at the same time from a single aircraft. Therefore the delivery of guided munitions, especially laser-guided ones, is not a practical option with large bombers.

If you look into world of military aviation, you shall note that almost all the precise munitions (PGMs) are delivered by fighters.
 
Plus all our F-16 carry ATLAS laser-designator Pod, and now we have Sniper XR Advanced Targeting Pod (Sniper ATP.
 
Batmannow..........The point is that NORMALLY big bombers deliver unguided Iron bombs. Only exceptionally and with rare upgrades can they deliver Laser Guided Bombs (LGBs)............

At one time, you can designate one target with laser and you dont want all of your 50 bombs to hit the same spot. You want your 50 bombs to cover an area and I think its still not possible to designate 50 separate targets at the same time from a single aircraft. Therefore the delivery of guided munitions, especially laser-guided ones, is not a practical option with large bombers.

If you look into world of military aviation, you shall note that almost all the precise munitions (PGMs) are delivered by fighters.

THINK TANK; The B-52's Psychological Punch: The Enemy Knows You're Serious


By LAURENCE ZUCKERMAN
Published: December 8, 2001
At Davis-Mothan Air Force Base in the Arizona desert, a five-ton steel blade hangs high in the air, suspended from a crane. Suddenly the blade drops like a guillotine and slices through the fuselage of a B-52 bomber. The process is then repeated.

The exercise, which is featured in the new documentary ''B-52,'' helped persuade the filmmaker Hartmut Bitomsky to embark on the project after he was urged to look into the subject by the artist Ben Nicholson.

The destruction of the B-52's was mandated by the 1991 strategic arms reduction treaty, which committed the United States to reducing its ability to drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. But the B-52 Stratofortress, as Boeing has always called it, is by no means retired, as its prominent role in the war in Afghanistan attests. In fact, it is the longevity and versatility of the giant bomber, which started flying in 1952 and is expected to remain in service until 2037, that is so fascinating.
Mr. Bitomsky, a German who is dean of the film and video department at the California Institute of the Arts, calls the B-52 a modern equivalent of a cathedral: a product of this nation's excess wealth. It is also a cultural phenomenon, inspiring both the name of a rock band and major films (including the 1964 classic ''Dr. Strangelove'') while stirring the imaginations of generations of cold warriors and antiwar protesters.

The plane was designed by Boeing in a fitful weekend in 1948 after Curtis LeMay, the imperious Air Force general, insisted that he needed a new heavy bomber that could drop several nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union in one pass.

The B-52 was one of the first jet bombers and the first large airplane to have swept-back wings, enabling it to fly 650 miles an hour. The design subsequently helped Boeing become the leading maker of civilian passenger jets.

The first two B-52's rolled off the assembly line in 1951 and 1952 and look basically the same as the last one, built in 1962. Forty feet high, 185 feet wide and with four engines under each wing, the plane can fly as high as 50,000 feet and go nearly 9,000 miles. The first version could carry 54,000 pounds of conventional bombs or four nuclear bombs.

While the exterior of the airplane has not changed, it has had three major overhauls so far. Wags in the military-industrial complex praise Boeing for being the only contractor to sell the same plane to the Air Force three times.

From its first flight, the B-52 was recognized by the Air Force as an awesome weapon beyond anything available to the Soviet Union or any other country. From that perspective, it also packed a tremendous psychological punch.

In the 1960's the plane was modified so it could fly as low as 300 feet. People who have seen a B-52 from the ground at that altitude retain vivid memories of the experience. When you deploy the B-52, said a former navigator interviewed by Mr. Bitomsky, ''the other side knows you are serious.''

Other than a few atmospheric tests in the 1950's, the B-52 never had to perform its principal job: deliver a nuclear weapon. The specter of B-52's circling the globe 24-hours a day within minutes of striking the Soviet Union was part of the deterrent that prevented nuclear war for more than 40 years.

''The whole cold war was a strange kind of truce,'' said Mr. Bitomsky, whose film is showing at the Film Forum in Manhattan until Dec. 18. ''They would threaten each other and increase the armaments.''

But the B-52 never proved decisive in a cold war conflict. It dropped tons of conventional bombs with devastating effect during the Vietnam War and became a notorious symbol for opponents of the war. Mr. Bitomsky focuses on the bombing in December 1972 when waves of B-52's attacked Hanoi for 12 days, killing thousands.

But the offensive did not break the will of the North Vietnamese, and President Richard M. Nixon soon stepped up his efforts to withdraw from Vietnam.

Paradoxically, the B-52 appears to have been more effective since the cold war, in the Persian Gulf war, Kosovo and now in Afghanistan. About 95 of the 744 built are still flying. Each can carry 70,000 pounds of various bombs, mines and missiles, including nuclear-armed cruise missiles.
The Pentagon has been generally satisfied with the performance of the B-52 in Afghanistan. But conventional bombing, even with modern targeting devices, is still prone to error, as was seen this week when three members of the Special Forces were killed by an American bomb in Afghanistan.
Nevertheless, there are no plans to retire the bomber anytime soon. Every four years, each B-52 goes to Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, where it is taken apart, repaired and put back together. Boeing has proposed putting new engines on the B-52, a project it said would cost $1.3 billion but save taxpayers money over the long run because of cheaper spare parts. The Pentagon has not decided whether Boeing will succeed in selling it the plane a fourth time.

Some experts doubt that the B-52 will last until 2037, but Mr. Bitomsky quotes officials who predict it will outlive the B-1 and B-2 bombers, both relative youngsters that were built in the 1980's. That would ensure that the B-52, which can now be flown by the grandchildren of its original crews, will be around long enough to be celebrated or reviled by at least one more generation.

The monster of the skies, much feared in past conflicts around the world, is now being used against Taleban forces in Afghanistan.

America's B-52 bomber, which marks its 47th operational birthday this year, is widely expected to prop up the US Air Force well beyond the year 2045.

The bombers are officially named "stratofortresses". They are known as Big Ugly Fat Fellows, or Buffs, among US servicemen.


A Hanoi museum is dedicated to the B-52's role in the Vietnam War
The planes were designed to play the lead role in the USA's long-range nuclear bomber force.
The B-52 was a product of the post-war era when America looked for a strategic bomber to replace the B-36.

Original requirements were that the new "super bomber" could carry a 10,000-pound (4536-kg) bomb load over a 5,000-mile (8047-km) range.

This had to done at a minimum of 450 miles per hour at 35,000 feet.

After eight years in development, the first of the B-52s were delivered in 1955, but the Cold War dictated the development of another seven adaptations.


The B-52 could increase civilian casualties

Within two years designers were given the task of adapting the B-52 into a low level bomber.

New weapons and decoy missiles were introduced, as well as technological innovations in radar, radar-jamming devices and navigational aids.
The "flexible response" policy brought in during the early 1960s demanded the B-52 be capable of decisively knocking out Soviet target systems and military installation and industrial complexes.

This led to the birth of in-flight refuelling. From then on, range was up to the stamina of the crew. But the emphasis on the bomber as a major deterrent was disappearing.

In 1962, after seven years of production, the last of the B-52 rolled into use, and from then on, designers solely focused on how to adapt existing models.

Vietnam

B-52s were called into action in South Vietnam in 1965 to carry out Operation Arc Light, a carpet bombing campaign to provide support for South Vietnamese forces in their battle against the invading communists from the north.

The bomber's use in Vietnam led to the development of "Big Belly," a large bomb carriage able to hold a total of 60,000 pounds of explosive material.

No aircraft to date has been able to rival this capability to wage war.

Within six months, Vietnam had been saturated with bombs from more than 100 bombing missions.

Within a year, under the "saturation bombing" policy, B-52s were dropping more than 8,000 tonnes of explosives every month.

The bombers upped the stakes in 1967, carrying out more than 9,700 missions, and in 1968 the B-52s dropped nearly 60,000 tonnes of explosive.

Today, a museum dedicated to the communists' victory over the US is located in Hanoi. The exhibits show pieces of B-52 bombers which were shot down or left in Vietnam following the US withdrawal.

Gulf War

B-52s were also put into use against Iraq in 1991 as part of Operation Desert Storm.

They were used to conduct carpet bombing raids - covering an entire area with a "carpet" of bombs - against Iraqi defence sites and concentrations of troops.

The Gulf War raids led to the longest strike mission in the history of aerial warfare. B-52s left Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana, launching their explosive cargo on Iraq.

They touched down in Barksdale at the end of the 16,000-mile trip 35 hours later. Eighteen hours later, the bombers were re-armed and ready for another run.

Kosovo

Before their deployment over Afghanistan, B-52s were most recently used in Nato operations against Yugoslavia during the Kosovo conflict.

Eleven bombers carried out 270 sorties from the UK, dropping more than 11,000 bombs on Serbian positions and Yugoslav strategic sites.

B52 carpet bombing 'can oust Taliban'
Telegraph.co.uk
By Alan Philps in Rabat and Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:16PM GMT 01 Nov 2001


AMERICA intensified its attacks on Taliban front-line positions yesterday, launching the first raids by giant B52 bombers north of Kabul.
The appearance of B52s cheered anti-Taliban commanders, who have spent the past week deriding American "pin pricks", and raised their hopes that the enemy positions might at last collapse. As a B52 barrelled across the sky, its four vapour trails clearly visible, the whole landscape appeared to shake.

It sent down one salvo of bombs, setting off a series of at least 15 explosions over a distance of half a mile, before returning for a second attack. Previous air raids on the strategic sector of the Taliban front line guarding the approaches to Kabul have been carried out by smaller fighter-bombers which release one or two bombs at a time.

The attacks continued throughout the day, and commanders said that it was the most intense since America began bombing the front line on Oct 17. "This is the most successful day so far," said Alou Zeki, commander of a sector of the front to the west of the Soviet-built Bagram air base. "If it continues like this, the front line will collapse and the Taliban can be defeated."

The intensified bombing was apparently in response to criticism from congressmen that America was not making enough use of its military clout. The B52 Stratofortress was used in the bombing of Cambodia, to destroy Iraq's Republican Guard during the Gulf war and against Yugoslav troops in Kosovo.

It was used against Taliban and al-Qa'eda bases in the early part of the campaign, but until now has not attacked Taliban front-line troops. The Pentagon indicated that additional US forces would move into Central Asia over the next few weeks from where they could attack targets in northern Afghanistan.

Several thousand troops, including Green Berets, have been in southern Uzbekistan for some weeks. Independent observers in northern Afghanistan have said that US F-15 Strike Eagle aircraft attacking Taliban front lines have flown off towards Uzbekistan.

The admission that more assets would be moved into the former Soviet republic came after a visit by Gen Tommy Franks, commander-in-chief of US Central Command, who is running the US campaign. US defence sources in the Uzbek capital, Tashkent, said a number of countries were providing "concrete, solid assistance to the war on terrorism" but were not prepared to acknowledge this publicly.

Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World Armies, said the movement of further assets to Uzbekistan came amid signs that the Americans were preparing to set up a forward operations base in northern Afghanistan as a prelude to a ground invasion in the spring.

Yesterday's raids have long been sought by the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance to make up for their weakness in men, materiel and strategic location, as the Taliban control high ground on the approaches to Kabul. Northern Alliance officials have said repeatedly that three days of carpet bombing of the front lines would open the way to the capital.

But Alou Zeki was careful not to say when the march on the capital might begin. "I am glad they are bombing the troop concentrations, where there are no civilians to be killed," he said. "This is really weakening the Taliban." After the B52 raid, the whole front line - which can be silent for days - burst into life, with exchanges of mortar and machine gun fire.

There was a new buzz in the bazaars of the opposition territory that the phoney war might be drawing to a close. The streets seemed more warlike as soldiers adopted winter camouflage. There were reports that Russia was providing armour to boost the Northern Alliance's inventory. But no tanks have been seen crossing the icy pass through the Hindu Kush.

There has been great disappointment on the opposition side - and equal relief among the Taliban - that the American front-line raids have so far been relatively restrained. Reports from Taliban-controlled areas suggest that the militia are constantly on the move to avoid being hit.

Anti-Taliban commanders say they see signs of the enemy creeping back to their bases at night. But the air campaign has yet to deliver a blow that would persuade the Taliban that the balance of forces has turned against them

Dear & honurable shehbazi2001, sir
plz! sir try to understand, the role of a bomber , or the situation , in which a bomber can be used.
AFGHANISTAN was the perfect,place where mountains & rough landscape was the perfect shelter for these, talibans, but they were crippled, very fastly, as B-52 took the sky & cleared the way for allied forces all around afghanistan.

what i am, gussing is that! if PAK ARMY can get 2 of medium range bombers with the latest of the guided weapons. i think , it could bring great results, in case of another taliban hold up. i, am not happy but i am 100% sure that , there would be another taliban hold up, of pakistani area, same as BAJUR.
what then if USA , wants to do carpet bombings, AND TOOK ALL THE CREDIT FROM PAKISTAN ARMY?:azn::disagree:
 
So if you bomb the crap out of some place using F/A aircraft, the enemy will think you are kidding?

Yes, the B52 has a psychological effect - but bombs also have psychological effect, don't they? whether they are delivered by F/A aircraft or a grenade on a arrow fired from a bow.

It is interesting to note that the psychological effect has thus far been exhibited by combatants on whom the B52 was not designed to be used on.
 
Dear hounrable, fatman17; sir
belive me that i wasnt , emotional at all , when i was writting the above post.
i guss, i couldnt understand , your point of view regarding, pakistan army's just need of a specific bomber. i guss, PAKISTAN ARMY has already got its own air wing, so why cant, it cant get its own flying battle ship.
why, it will effect PAF?
And why you think that only a decorated PAF pilot (MK) of PAF had the athourity to select or decide, what type of weapon pakistan need?

i , guss that pakistan defence fourm is doing the right role, to disscuss and give full details for any of purposed purchase of weapons.
I realy dont get, what you are thinking about conspiracy theories, but a lot of conspiracy theories, happened to be real ones.

Batman - i consider u my friend but i dont agree with your assumptions! but what i like about you is that you keep trying!
 
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