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Does Indian Air Force need Rafale at all?

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Agreed, Tejas is done, they will just be a gap filler and AFAIK the 1st Tejas sdrn will be based in Tamil Nadu!

But we will need the Rafales to get true multi role fighters, Su 30 MKIs and FGFAs are air superiority fighters.

And to develop new indigenous fighter we need technology and capital, which we will get from 50% offset and full TOT from the Rafale deal.

Yea but if india has that much money so no problem let other countries pull his leg & grind their own axe's...
 
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BULLSHIT ARTICLE by a Civilian..........

FACTS OF THE MATTER -

1) LCA Radar -Issue Resolved ELTA
2) Engine - GE 414 22,000 lbf (98 kN)
3) There is NO DEFENCE Budget Cuts - Dig this is Your SKULL.
4) We have invested over 2 Bn USD on Tejas-LCA even if it does not deliver, will HAVE no Iota of Impact.
5) JF 17 Till date doesnt have a PESA Radar forget AESA.
6) If God forbid RAFALE is not bought or Delayed we will acquire Second Hand MIRAGE 2000
7) We want a Mix of Hi- Lo - Median A/C SU`s will not Exceed 14 SQNs
8) Dont Paste Articles from a Civilian who Doesnt No A jerk of Flying!!!! Who has NEVER made a Sortie in Kiran even.............

JF17 is no More than a Mordernised Mig 21 Type 15. It has 5 Hard Points and a Rubbish Radar. Forget Days of Dog fight. If I can paint you 80 Km away...I will NOT let Go this advantage and Say Let me come close and have Dog-Fight.

Doing my calculations on Power: Thrust on JF17 gives me TAS of 1.6 Mach assuming Bird is at 30,000 Ft

Some LOLLY-POP Journalism
 
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where's the source??
the link provided doesn't lead anywhere.

You can't post the link on PDF, but the source is correct and you can simply google it.

Wrt the author:

Navneet Bhushan (Navneet) is a founder director of CRAFITTI CONSULTING (Crafitti Consulting - Home) – an Innovation and Intellectual Property Consulting firm focused on co-crafting Innovation in global enterprises. He is the winner of Indira India Innovation award for Entrepreneurship and Innovation Leadership for 2012. He is the principal author of Strategic Decision Making- Applying the Analytic Hierarchy Process published by Springer-Verlag, UK, as part of the Decision Engineering Series. Read Navneet Bhushan Profile. Read Navneet Bhushan Columns.
 
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My comment to him:

To Mr. Bhushan,

you raise a question, based on the "claim" that the budget cut will effect the Rafale procurement and missing many important points!

To start with, the cuts includes the overall defence budget of all three forces, not IAFs budget alone. Divided by three and compared to the total value of the possible MMRCA costs, the effect for IAF will only be marginal and could be balanced by delaying smaller, or less important procurements!

Secondly, IAF reportedly preferred a fast induction of additional Mirage 2000-5s in the first MRCA competition, which was delayed by the government and later extended to M-MRCA. The new competition was not meant to offer a cost-effective stop gap fighter anymore, but had a higher focus on benefits for the Indian industry! That's why the offsets and ToT requirements were increased, US and additional European vendors were allowed to the competition.
For IAF that meant, they had to choose a new type of fighter anyway, but were able to choose one with good future potential and one that increase it's capabilities with the growing threat from China in mind.

You also left out the current threat potential for IAF in your article, which is an important though!
Chinese and Pakistani air forces are modernising their fleets in a faster pace than IAF currently, while we are even forced to phase out more fighters than initially expected before 2017. At the same time only Su 30s and LCA MK1 will enter service, with the MK2 version only "expected" from 2017 onwards. All other alternatives you mentioned will be available only in the mid or even the end of the next decade, if at all, since most of these projects are only in the initial planning stages and not even fully funded yet.

The Mig 29s are placed to counter Pakistani forces and the capability of LCA MK2, just like it's induction remain uncertain, Jaguars are old generation strike fighters, with no air to air capability, which raises the question how would you counter China till 2022 when the FGFA arrives?


The MMRCA will not only add numbers to India, but bridge also the technical and industrial capability of IAF and the Indian industry, till India might be capable of developing own fighters and drones at a competitive level to other countries.
China don't need to laugh about us in 2030, they could do it in 2015 if we don't buy Rafale, because they will have an edge in numerical and technical terms, while their industrial advantage will increase even further!
 
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We need Dassault JV to absorb the advance tech and develop our own domestic industry, This deal is nothing but buying the advanced tech and developing our own engineers, there by developing stealth bomber and 6th generation fighter jet.

Only if they give us the real tech. not the screwdriver technology to maintain the aircrafts which is what is provided as ToT.
Recent indications from the Kaveri-Snecma deal says otherwise though.

Well, Rafale is a very expensive project but given the geo-political complexes, we may have to go for it.

To compensate, we may reduce the numbers for PAK-FA.

And this will be another blunder. Reducing FGFA for Rafale will be one of the worst decisions if taken. But then again we are famous for doing blunders.


The article is one of the stupidest though. He should not have compared LCA to Mig-21 and then to JF-17. He has overlooked many factors and hence has reached to a very flawed conclusion about LCA.
 
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Only if they give us the real tech. not the screwdriver technology to maintain the aircrafts which is what is provided as ToT.
Recent indications from the Kaveri-Snecma deal says otherwise though.

France is facing economic slowdown and only way it can sustain the Aerospace Industry is by taking the help of MMRCA deal. India can induce some capital.

Kaveri is at the end of its design cycle when french got involved.
 
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France is facing economic slowdown and only way it can sustain the Aerospace Industry is by taking the help of MMRCA deal. India can induce some capital.

Kaveri is at the end of its design cycle when french got involved.

The Question remains : Why should India spend so much money to keep their Aeronautical Industry floating if they dont give us the required tech.
 
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Recent indications from the Kaveri-Snecma deal says otherwise though.

How so? Not a single source ever stated that they wouldn't provide us with ToT? Infact, ToT was never an issue with the French, the most issues we had were about high costs and that's most likely the same now again and which is why we want to put more pressure on the to reduce the costs, through competition.

Kaveri is at the end of its design cycle when french got involved.

It already is at the end, since GTRE has already admitted they can't further develop it with the necessary thrust. That's why they distract now with the application to Aura UCAV, but using Kaveri in a fighter will only be possible with foreign help.

The Question remains : Why should India spend so much money to keep their Aeronautical Industry floating if they dont give us the required tech.

We don't, we spend so much money to increase our defence and get valuable input on AESA radar, engine, or avionics, let alone modern design and GOOD project management!
 
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