Does anyone recognise this Cap Badge ?

[vsdoc]

Yes I am aware of that, their collusion with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan was always going to cause problems in a reactionary world that wanted to bury the legacy of both as deep as recent memory allowed.

But equally, and @third eye would have more to say on this, the country also does not remember or celebrate the exploits of the BIA (same regiments) in the two world wars.

Officially that is.

The regiments do. But that's within the army. Civvies are not included. Or involved.

Where by rights, the second was fought on Indian (undivided) blood and treasure by a near knocked out Britain.

 

[Icarus]

But equally, and @third eye would have more to say on this, the country also does not remember or celebrate the exploits of the BIA (same regiments) in the two world wars.

Officially that is.

The regiments do. But that's within the army. Civvies are not included. Or involved.

Where by rights, the second was fought on Indian (undivided) blood and treasure by a near knocked out Britain.

Regiments even within the Indian and Pakistani Army retain occasional contact based on important events. For example, on the Piffers 150th Anniversary, the Indian Piffers sent Pakistan a Khukhri and the Pakistani side sent a Pishkhwazay in return. The Indian Khukri is displayed at the FF Center, don't know where the Pishkhwazay went.

Pishkhwazay (Charay):

 

[third eye]

Frankly, I have no idea but at first glance, it reminds me of the Indian MP (Mil Police) cap badge. Can't be one though, since the turban doesn't seem to be red.

A pity , I was hoping some Faujis across this forum may be able to identify the badge. Shall delve deeper myself.

BTW @third eye, I wanted to know how the legacy of Subhas Chandra Bose is seen in Indian Military circles. If you would not mind writing down a couple of lines for me.

Like many of the heroes of pre-partition India, mention of Bose has been erased from memory in Pakistan as well. Which is strange because the Azad Hind Fauj was composed heavily of Sikhs and Punjabi Muslims.

Bose & the INA has been deliberately & systematically erased from public memory. This I suspect was done by the brits & later post 47 by Nehru & the Congress so as not to create another power block within the party.

Besides, the INA was disbanded before the independence. Had any of its regiments or a part thereof amalgamated into any of the Regiments of IA the history would have remained. Just as an example there are regiments that still carry battle honours & captured flags of the battle of Seringapatam 1792. I have seen a framed muster rolls of those present on that day in the regiment. Memorabilia of the Rani of Jhansi & events like the Boxer Rebellion too are displayed only because units took part in these battles.

Unfortunately, he has all but faded away from Military memory. There were no recorded notable battles that the INA was involved in. Since it was from the Jap side the brits erased everything before they left.

I wonder if the declassified files will throw some light.

Yes I am aware of that, their collusion with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan was always going to cause problems in a reactionary world that wanted to bury the legacy of both as deep as recent memory allowed.

This was only one reason and should have been applicable till 47 only. Later , it was political intrigue that kept Bose & records of the INA away from memory.

From where did you get this pic?
I tried reverse searching it, but all in vain. You've got me curious on this.

Belongs to someones Grand Dad. Trying to trace the badge's genealogy.

But equally, and @third eye would have more to say on this, the country also does not remember or celebrate the exploits of the BIA (same regiments) in the two world wars.

Officially that is.

The regiments do. But that's within the army. Civvies are not included. Or involved.

Where by rights, the second was fought on Indian (undivided) blood and treasure by a near knocked out Britain.

Regiments celebrate battles like Meanee , Tobruk & Meiktila etc for two reasons. Regimental tradition/ History & the fact that Indians fought & fell in those battles.

Regiments even within the Indian and Pakistani Army retain occasional contact based on important events. For example, on the Piffers 150th Anniversary, the Indian Piffers sent Pakistan a Khukhri and the Pakistani side sent a Pishkhwazay in return. The Indian Khukri is displayed at the FF Center, don't know where the Pishkhwazay went.

It must be displayed at the Regimental Center of 5 Gurkha Rifles , Shillong.

 

[third eye]

@asad71

Maybe you could help in identifying this cap badge ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Being an army brat i can tell you one thing, my father never talked about Subhash Chandra bose- if you're shocked then dont be, this should reinforce the fact that our leaders post independence tried their level best to erase Subhash Chandra bose from our books and memories.

Subash chandra bose was an impractical man who would have added more fire to already hot very hot British India.

He was totally out of suync with big name leaders like Gandhi, Nehru, etc.

He was also out of sync with the funders the money men who filled the coffers of Congress.

This is why SCB wasn't going anywhere.
this is why every major leaders took a sigh of relief when SCB plane went down somwhere in the far east.

 

[Levina]

Subash chandra bose was an impractical man who would have added more fire to already hot very hot British India.

Do you mean Subhash Chandra Bose was impractical?
It was Bose who created the Azad Hind Fauj, and to an extent he was successful in inflicting some serious damage to British Army. Gandhi's Satyagrah and non-cooperative movements would have never fetched freedom.
It was Bose who came up with the idea of Poorna-swaraj/self-governance while Gandhi and Nehru supported the idea much later- initially they wanted only partial freedom.
To me Gandhi was an impractical and stubborn man.

You might find it hard to believe but Nehru also can be bracketed as impractical for he was of the opinion that Indian army (post-independence) should be lead by a Britisher. You must really think very high of Britishers if you wish them to lead your army. Isnt it?
Nehru, to an extent, is responsible for the bitterness between India and China today. I'm sure @Chinese-Dragon can confirm it.
Bose is often misunderstood because he admired authoritarian methods of Germany and Italy but that was part of a bigger plan; enemy's enemy is your friend.
Bose himself had never displayed any such authoritative leanings during his tenure as Congress Party President- there was nothing anti-democratic or authoritarian about him.

He was totally out of suync with big name leaders like Gandhi, Nehru, etc.

First you must realise that Gandhi and Nehru would not have been big names at all if Bose was alive.
Let me give you an example: Nehru was "nominated" by Gandhi for the party leadership, while Bose was "elected" by party members.
Huge difference!!!
I'm not sure what Gandhi's plans were, for Gandhi had asked Bose to create his own cabinet after Congress election, though Bose was all for unity.

The only positive attribute that I see in Gandhi and Nehru, is that they were secular, but so was Bose.

This is why SCB wasn't going anywhere.
this is why every major leaders took a sigh of relief when SCB plane went down somwhere in the far east.

I highly doubt this claim that he died in a plane crash.
Soon the Subhash Chandra's Bose's files will be declassified and then we will know who or what killed him.

Belongs to someones Grand Dad. Trying to trace the badge's genealogy

The zoomed in picture is very blurry.
If possible could you post the entire picture?
You can hide the faces of others in the pic though.

 

[asad71]

Regiments even within the Indian and Pakistani Army retain occasional contact based on important events. For example, on the Piffers 150th Anniversary, the Indian Piffers sent Pakistan a Khukhri and the Pakistani side sent a Pishkhwazay in return. The Indian Khukri is displayed at the FF Center, don't know where the Pishkhwazay went.

Pishkhwazay (Charay):

Isn't it a Mahsud Khanjar although the original hilt is wooden?

I am looking for information about the Cap Badge this Sikh Soldier is wearing.

Possibly WW 2 vintage

Would appreciate if anyone could shed light on this badge.

View attachment 269424

Sorry, that's a tricky one. If you could provide more details like the era, IA or a State Army, etc then possibly somebody could ascertain.

 

[third eye]

The zoomed in picture is very blurry.
If possible could you post the entire picture?
You can hide the faces of others in the pic though.

Sorry, that's a tricky one. If you could provide more details like the era, IA or a State Army, etc then possibly somebody could ascertain.

Unfortunately , little else is available.

Thanks anyway.

Its an unusual badge .

 

[Icarus]

Isn't it a Mahsud Khanjar although the original hilt is wooden?

Indeed sir, the same design is adopted by various tribes with minor changes. Its called the Pishkhwazay in Bajaur, Charay in Khyber Agency and Mahsud Khanjar or Khyber Knife to many outside of the immediate area.

 

[Green Arrow]

@third eye

Quite a number of Indian WWII units used the star, of course, Engineers, IEME, Vet Corps and a few more but all of their badges had a star inside a wreath. The only one I know of with a star in a plain circlet was the Defence Security Corps, which was founded in 1947. It was initially about 30,000 constables, recruited from ex-soldiers, to guard defence installations such as ordnance factories against sabotage. They eventually took over security at India's nuclear establishments, I don't know if they are still in existence.

 

[third eye]

@third eye

Quite a number of Indian WWII units used the star, of course, Engineers, IEME, Vet Corps and a few more but all of their badges had a star inside a wreath. The only one I know of with a star in a plain circlet was the Defence Security Corps, which was founded in 1947. It was initially about 30,000 constables, recruited from ex-soldiers, to guard defence installations such as ordnance factories against sabotage. They eventually took over security at India's nuclear establishments, I don't know if they are still in existence.

Thank You

Yes, they are in existence. This is their badge

 

[fatman17]

@Icarus , @Joe Shearer, @faujihistorian , [USER=3171]@fatman17 ,[/USER]

pic is not very clear to identify.