Does a fifth gen fighter change the dynamics of aerial warfare in S. Asia?

[Joe Shearer]

Most certainly an unbiased opinion and very brave one at that! Thanks a lot!!

Kind Regards,
A patriot yet trying to be honest Pakistani!

@Joe Shearer in light of these developments I shall stand down unless further conflicting facts emerge out of this discussion. It is necessary for all of us to be honest about events that took place 50+ years ago.

Please accept my apologies!

No need for apologies. Please just do your homework in future, BEFORE posting.

 

[randomradio]

When did I say anything about full transfer of engine tech???

That's why the engine will remain sanction prone.

 

[litman]

Nuclear diarrhea is an epidemic in Pakistan.

its not diarrhoea . its reality. even US couldnt do anything about NK other then threats and sanctions just because of NK nuclear and missile capability. otherwise the whole world knows what she did with afghanistan and iraq.

 

[HariPrasad]

its not diarrhoea . its reality. even US couldnt do anything about NK other then threats and sanctions just because of NK nuclear and missile capability. otherwise the whole world knows what she did with afghanistan and iraq.

When your answer to any discussion is N Bomb than why do you guys discuss any topic at all? You have the bomb and that is end of matter. No military development in any area should be discuss at all. You have missiles, we have bomb. You have fifth fighter plane , we have bomb. You have submarines, we have bombs. It should be end of any discussion.

 

[litman]

When your answer to any discussion is N Bomb than why do you guys discuss any topic at all? You have the bomb and that is end of matter. No military development in any area should be discuss at all. You have missiles, we have bomb. You have fifth fighter plane , we have bomb. You have submarines, we have bombs. It should be end of any discussion.

yes exactly this is the point. rather i am of the opinion that this is the right time for pak to think sensibly and cut down military and hence military budget. we dont need 22 PAF squadrons and 6 lac army. 10 squadrons of F-16s and JFT are sufficient to for LIC which is a part of 5th gen warfare. same is the case with army. IA will never ever dare to cross IB. we need just enough army for LOC "useless" cross border firing and LIC. what pak needs to deter india or any other country we already have.i.e. nuclear weapons and launch platforms. it is hundred percent guaranteed that if any war breaks out between india and pak it will completely destroy the region and impact the whole world so no leader from either side will even dare to go for for an all out war. our leaders should spend the same budget on national development rather then useless fifth gen toys. and we have recent examples from the recent past that even the strongest military in the world with all the F22s and F35s couldnt muster up courage to wage war against a poorly equipped and poorly trained starving military just because it has handful of nukes and delivery platforms. after the abbotabad incident US think tanks thought about invading pak but invading a country with nuclear weapons could prove to be a disaster and they abandon their mission as per the book "obama's wars".
we all will see how many times india uses rafale and PAKFA in a war and will they be able to prevent a nuclear strike on india if God forbid a full scale war begins between ind and pak.

 

[Basel]

It will change equation between India and Pakistan. Rest of subcontinent has nothing to with change in power equation.

If India gets it first, the huge gap between India and Pakistan will get further widen. If Pakistan gets it first, the gape will narrow.

Its seems both countries will field 5th gen bird in similar time frame.

 

[AFlover]

It will change equation between India and Pakistan. Rest of subcontinent has nothing to with change in power equation.

If India gets it first, the huge gap between India and Pakistan will get further widen. If Pakistan gets it first, the gape will narrow.

I don’t think the gap gonna be too wide even if India gets it first because in the presence of AZM and Chinese J-31 and J-20 projects PAF will never let this leverage to go to IAF for too long surely in a very short time PAF will overcome the gap but there r great chances that PAF will acquire it first.

 

[HariPrasad]

I don’t think the gap gonna be too wide even if India gets it first because in the presence of AZM and Chinese J-31 and J-20 projects PAF will never let this leverage to go to IAF for too long surely in a very short time PAF will overcome the gap but there r great chances that PAF will acquire it first.

J31 and J20 are not fifth generation plane.

 

[Windjammer]

J31 and J20 are not fifth generation plane.

Really then i guess Tejas is just a trailer then.


The Shenyang FC-31, also known as the J-31 or Gyrfalcon is a twin-engine, mid-size fifth-generation jet fighter currently under development by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. It has also been referred to as the "F-60" or "J-21 Snowy Owl" in some media reports, or "Falcon Hawk" by some military enthusiasts

The Chengdu J-20, also known as Mighty Dragon, is a single-seat, twinjet, all-weather, stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft developed by China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation for the People's Liberation Army Air Force

 

[HariPrasad]

Really then i guess Tejas is just a trailer then.


The Shenyang FC-31, also known as the J-31 or Gyrfalcon is a twin-engine, mid-size fifth-generation jet fighter currently under development by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. It has also been referred to as the "F-60" or "J-21 Snowy Owl" in some media reports, or "Falcon Hawk" by some military enthusiasts

The Chengdu J-20, also known as Mighty Dragon, is a single-seat, twinjet, all-weather, stealth fifth-generation fighter aircraft developed by China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation for the People's Liberation Army Air Force

Our MKI detected J 20 from a long distance without having even AESA.

 

[Windjammer]

Our MKI detected J 20 from a long distance without having even AESA.

And the MKI was probably painted long before that, and and F-117 Night Hawk was even shot down.....so i guess it doesn't make it fifth generation. Lol

 

[LKJ86]

Our MKI detected J 20 from a long distance without having even AESA.

How long is the distance?
Where is the location?
When?

From Wikipedia:
The PESA radar, N011M of Su-30MKI:
"N011M has a search range of 400 km and a tracking range of 200 km, with 60 km in the rear in the air-to-air mode. Detection range fighter type MIG-29 in area of review of over 300 sq. deg: - on towards course - up to 140 km; - in pursuit of - up to 60 km.[4]"

Do you mean the RCS of J-20 is similar to that of B-52 or B747?

 

[cabatli_53]

And if you actually go for TFX, then you have to be worried about sanctions since the British will supply its engine.

No, The national engine program that is going to have a thrust around 27000lbf, has been commenced under the leadership of TrMotor. Rolce-Royce is willing to join into program to share their know-how so Bargains are proceeding. I mean The IP rights of engine will solely belong to Turkey and RR is the one who accept it so Negotiations are being done with them.

 

[GeraltofRivia]

J31 and J20 are not fifth generation plane.

You are correct. They are 4th generation, in Chinese terminology.

 

[randomradio]

No, The national engine program that is going to have a thrust around 27000lbf, has been commenced under the leadership of TrMotor. Rolce-Royce is willing to join into program to share their know-how so Bargains are proceeding. I mean The IP rights of engine will solely belong to Turkey and RR is the one who accept it so Negotiations are being done with them.

AFAIK, Rolls does not want to give up IPR. So negotiations have still be ongoing.

https://www.ft.com/content/fd8f45ba-72de-11e8-aa31-31da4279a601
After months of delicate diplomacy, the deal has run into trouble. Initial concerns about the management of intellectual property raised this year by Rolls-Royce, the British aero-engine group, appeared to have been resolved after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s high-profile visit to London last month.

Now they have resurfaced, partly due to the involvement of a subsidiary of BMC, the Turkish defence manufacturer that has the Qatari government, and a businessman with close links to Mr Erdogan, as shareholders. Turkish defence officials have upped the ante by again demanding that Rolls-Royce hand over sensitive technology.