Documentary-Diaoyu Islands - The Truth

[Lux de Veritas]

@Nihonjin1051 I think you know this but the dispute isn't about the islands themselves. If China could make enormous concessions to weak Central Asian states they could easily give up the Diaoyu Islands. China sits on enough gas to last centuries, and can even siphon out much of the gas under the Diaoyu/Senkaku's through it's part of UNCLOS delineated EEZ.

This is about Japan being infuriatingly subservient to Americans, who are nothing but the newest version of white imperialist savages. This hurts Japan more than anyone else but creates political impossibilities with two Koreas, the PRC and ROC. It also completely undermines any talk of being a peaceful nation. The fact remains that Japan has been hostile to China for the last 150 years even though we've done everything in the world to be friendly to you, right up until the end and even after the tragedy of 3/11. China has only ever been punished for being nice to Japan, beginning in 1600 AD. You cannot honestly expect any Chinese political leader to make more concessions and avoid being assassinated in the next 24 hours.

Most Chinese people (on mainland and on Taiwan) are infuriated by Japan's condescending attitude on the islands. Japan can certainly be as arrogant as the LDP likes but at least be arrogant and independent. Japan hasn't even shown China (or any Asian nation) the most basic level of cordiality or respect one would expect for a crippled dog, much less a benign and friendly people who have been so thoroughly betrayed and wronged by your nation in the last century. Much less for the world's second largest economy and perhaps the biggest market for your most profitable goods.

If we were like Americans or Russians believe me a war would have started already, and we both know that Japan is strong but could not hope to fend off a pan-Chinese offensive today, not even to speak of 10, 20 years later.

Diaoyu (Senkaku) is China. Problem now is Abe keep on adding oil.

Abe could have keep low profile and China would close one eye and let Japan administer the island or maybe cede it to Japan in future -- who knows. Due to Japan provoking, now the Island become de-facto co-patrol between Japan and China.

Japan cannot get the goodies and yet want to shout it out on the roof arrogantly. Maybe USA is behind this.

 

[TheTruth]

Hard to know what he's thinking. I suspect Abe might just be stirring up trouble so he can put Japan on a path to official remilitarization.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 I think you know this but the dispute isn't about the islands themselves. If China could make enormous concessions to weak Central Asian states they could easily give up the Diaoyu Islands. China sits on enough gas to last centuries, and can even siphon out much of the gas under the Diaoyu/Senkaku's through it's part of UNCLOS delineated EEZ.

This is about Japan being infuriatingly subservient to Americans, who are nothing but the newest version of white imperialist savages. This hurts Japan more than anyone else but creates political impossibilities with two Koreas, the PRC and ROC. It also completely undermines any talk of being a peaceful nation. The fact remains that Japan has been hostile to China for the last 150 years even though we've done everything in the world to be friendly to you, right up until the end and even after the tragedy of 3/11. China has only ever been punished for being nice to Japan, beginning in 1600 AD. You cannot honestly expect any Chinese political leader to make more concessions and avoid being assassinated in the next 24 hours.

Most Chinese people (on mainland and on Taiwan) are infuriated by Japan's condescending attitude on the islands. Japan can certainly be as arrogant as the LDP likes but at least be arrogant and independent. Japan hasn't even shown China (or any Asian nation) the most basic level of cordiality or respect one would expect for a crippled dog, much less a benign and friendly people who have been so thoroughly betrayed and wronged by your nation in the last century. Much less for the world's second largest economy and perhaps the biggest market for your most profitable goods. Meanwhile you cower in front of Russia and walk a step behind the Americans like they're you're fathers.

If we were like Americans or Russians believe me a war would have started already, and we both know that Japan is strong but could not hope to fend off a pan-Chinese offensive today, not even to speak of 10, 20 years later.

@TheTruth


I was somewhat lost in the message of your post as it seems that most of it was expressing some kind of angst, releasing some kind of tension , i assume? I tried to see where you were going in this message,and one thing that i found rather insinuating was the part where you state, "japan hasn't even shown china (or any asian nation) the most basic level of cordiality or respect...."

I think that is a gross misrepresentation of the reality on the ground. Japan's relationship with most of Asian countries is generally very deep and transformational in the positive sense. This has been seen through the multitude of Japanese developmental projects and assistance initiatives throughout the past 7 decades. As for the situation with China and Korea, that can be understandable and the emotionality , given the brutal Pacific War.

In regards to the Senkaku Islands, notice that Japan is not developing the island , tho we have the capability to conduct massive island genesis (Japan has a deep history and experience in creating man made islands) , we do not. We do not because this would cause sensationalism and further deteriorate relations with Beijing. This is the reason why Japan does not develop new islands close to Takeshima (Dokdo) as we do not wish to further strain relations with Seoul.

Japan's inhibition on that aspect is not due to lack of ability, rather, it is due to Japan's wishes to refrain from straining relations with China and Korea, but to establish the bedrock to better and improve relations.

End of the day we need to improve the "Love" between China and Japan.


Zonjinai toikenai koto nomi wa ai suru houhou o soshite ai sareru hou hou o desu.


I hope you can understand Japanese. @TaiShang , maybe you can translate for our friend.

 

[TheTruth]

@Nihonjin1051 True, Japan hasn't developed the islands and I acknowledge that. But is that out of respect for China's wishes or simply because it's known it would hurt trade relations? Every move Japan makes to mend ties with her neighbors is reluctant, usually minimal, and almost always undermined by some other motive or by right-wing politicians. Mostly I'm irritated that Japan is so close to the West when we can see quite plainly what the West is doing right now in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world. This undermines Japan's otherwise claim to peacefulness more than anything, even if Japan has contributed positively to development (although it hasn't been much compared to damage done). Then Japanese media/right wingers go on to say that Japan has done everything it can, and it's just that the PRC, North and South Korea and the ROC are simply irrational, jealous, whatever.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I studied China territorial negotiation with neighbours and conclude that China has been generous to all neighbours (except for the Spratly which is a little excessive but not overboard). Just cite one example, China ceded the Changbai mountain to North Korea when China has ruled it for centuries.

China has shown sincerity in giving up land to her neighbours to the point of bordering on traitorism. If Japan blow this Diaoyu/Senkaku up, she can only blame herself.

The territory claimed by Pyongyang encompasses the 33 square kilometers around the Paektusan summit that the North Koreans regard as having been appropriated by China when Korea was a vassal state of Beijing and unable to resist China’s impositions. In the case of Lake Chongji, an agreement signed in 1963 established that three-fifths of the lake would be under North Korean jurisdiction and the remaining two-fifths would belong to China.

The Chinese-Korean Border Issue: An Analysis of a Contested Frontier | Daniel Goma - Academia.edu

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 True, Japan hasn't developed the islands and I acknowledge that. But is that out of respect for China's wishes or simply because it's known it would hurt trade relations?

The Senkaku Islands were placed under Japanese Administrative Control , specifically under the JSDF, in 1972. This was 6 years before China and Japan signed the 1978 Treaty of Peace and Friendship , and months before the 1972 Sino-Japanese Communique. Throughout this time the Senkaku Shoto was not developed and there is actually a clause in the Japanese Charter of Environmental Policy that mentions how the Senkaku Shoto is to be preserved to protect its natural stasis.

Now going back to your question of whether Japan's lack of development of the island is due to a trade influence, the answer is no. Environmental policy regarding the islands were made in 1972, even before official relations between Japan and China were established, and way before Japan started to invest in China post-Open Door Policy.

The fact that Japan has maintained its official position of maintaining natural stasis of the islands these past some 50 years is an example of Japanese continuity and commitment. And I don't think this will change in the short to long term future as it would be a violation of the Law.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Another example of China ceding territory is the Nankan Myanmar. The "lease" was turned into acquisition by Myanmar because she want China land.

If we talk about Kokang (ceded through British through their imperialism) and many parts of Myanmar, China could have claim a large part of Myanmar land but eventually decide to give it away.

Now Barmese shit on Kokang Chinese can be interpreted as consequence of too willing for China to give in to neighbor demand on land.

 

[TheTruth]

@Nihonjin1051 Thanks for that information. As I understand relations between China and Japan were very good in the 80s, prior to Tiananmen. My understanding is also that the US has subsidized far right politics in Japan, and these are the two major factors leading to a decline in relations. Personally I'd be furious if they had such influence in Taiwan.

I think making all of these islands into nature sanctuaries is the right thing to do, as not to deviate from prior understandings to shelve the disputes for later. My personal interpretation is that the Noda administration was however being provocative even with the pretext of buying the islands so that Ishihara couldn't.

 

[kuge]

Another example of China ceding territory is the Nankan Myanmar. The "lease" was turned into acquisition by Myanmar because she want China land.

If we talk about Kokang (ceded through British through their imperialism) and many parts of Myanmar, China could have claim a large part of Myanmar land but eventually decide to give it away.

Now Barmese shit on Kokang Chinese can be interpreted as consequence of too willing for China to give in to neighbor demand on land.

View attachment 215685

man...i m thinking the habit of china giving away lands so easily to induce piranha frenzy feeding habits.
china is giving an easy-to-be bullied impression..

 

[Lux de Veritas]

man...i m thinking the habit of china giving away lands so easily to induce piranha frenzy feeding habits.
china is giving an easy-to-be bullied impression..

China as an aggressive bully is a propaganda by USA and her western stooges and India, and these folks are stiring shit with the SE Asian countries.

If we study carefully on China territorial negotiation, China has shown flexibility and willingness to accomodate neighbours.

The asxhole who keep eating up neighbours here is India. Anyone heard white man bad mouth India?

I will expose India on appropriate opportunities.

 

[Beast]

I predict the day China economy is bigger than US, Japan will return Diaoyutai island back to China. Its not worth infuriated the world largest economy and nuclear power. Opinion of Japanese will slowly sway. Human will always for towards stronger power for submission and inspiration.

There is no shame when submitted to a stronger power. There is only shame when you loses to a smaller power than you.

China hope to return to Tang dynasty times when China has immerse friendly exhange with Japan. If Japan gives up diaoyutai, I am sure large number of Chinese will love to buy Japanese goods or invest in Japan.

 

[terranMarine]

I predict the day China economy is bigger than US, Japan will return Diaoyutai island back to China. Its not worth infuriated the world largest economy and nuclear power. Opinion of Japanese will slowly sway. Human will always for towards stronger power for submission and inspiration.

There is no shame when submitted to a stronger power. There is only shame when you loses to a smaller power than you.

China hope to return to Tang dynasty times when China has immerse friendly exhange with Japan. If Japan gives up diaoyutai, I am sure large number of Chinese will love to buy Japanese goods or invest in Japan.

You and me make a pledge to buy JP products, BUT only after the turn over

 

[Aepsilons]

I predict the day China economy is bigger than US, Japan will return Diaoyutai island back to China. Its not worth infuriated the world largest economy and nuclear power. Opinion of Japanese will slowly sway. Human will always for towards stronger power for submission and inspiration.

There is no shame when submitted to a stronger power. There is only shame when you loses to a smaller power than you.

China hope to return to Tang dynasty times when China has immerse friendly exhange with Japan. If Japan gives up diaoyutai, I am sure large number of Chinese will love to buy Japanese goods or invest in Japan.

Zonji reru nara nai koto nomi wa ai suru hou hou o so shite ai sareru hou hou o desu.

You and me make a pledge to buy JP products, BUT only after the turn over

your fishing rod and blanket were made in Japan.

 

[terranMarine]

Zonji reru nara nai koto nomi wa ai suru hou hou o so shite ai sareru hou hou o desu.





your fishing rod and blanket were made in Japan.

 

[Aepsilons]

don't tell me you paid too much?