Dismissal of Muslim student for sporting beard stayed

[Skeptic]

Look! how obnoxiously invalid that decision was made against the Muslim student by Justice Markandey Katju. Good thing is that it was reviewed and his bigoted decision was dropped.

From where I see this emphasizes the competent structure of checks and balances we have in India. Even if a incorrect judgement is made it is reversed.

Unfortunately anti-Islam Justice Markandey's presence in the Judiciary is a stark reminder that anti-Muslim islamophobia is still present at such high institution which is meant to protect the rights of Indian citizens regardless of race, religion, etc.

I think you want to instill some flame baits in a proper discussion. Markandey's interpretations were incorrect according to Supreme Court and ME but that does not make him Islamophobic or Anti Muslim.

Things like these keep reminding us how we're better off in Pakistan.

please dont feel offended but we have a saying

Bandar Kya Jaane adrak ka swad

meaning you cant like what you never tasted. Billion here think otherwise. Now keep Pakistan out of this...

 

[FireFighter]

not neccessarily...
beard is in islam not islam in beard...
it your own choice whether you want to have it or not... its not a compulsion...

There Skeptic, you have your reply.

You're absolutely misinformed my friend, toxic.

Beard is a compulsion in Islam according to both Sunni and Shia traditions as it is a direct commandment of the Prophet Muhammad SAW. There's a consensus on keeping the beard from all schools of thoughts in Islam, however there are minor differences amongst scholars on the length and size of the beard. Since keeping a beard is a part of ones manhood in Islamic custom, Shaving the beard is no doubt a major sin and consequences of it range from being stripped away from ones manhood in the eyes of the community and one may be considered an open sinner and not being accepted as a reliable witness in Islamic court. There are no punishments prescribed in the Shariah for shaving your beard, however beard remains an obligation on faithful Muslims given that they have facial hair.

I am not sure if external links are allowed on this site, but I hope this helps from Sunni POV:
Regarding the Beard

 

[Skeptic]

You're absolutely misinformed my friend, toxic.

Beard is a compulsion in Islam according to both Sunni and Shia traditions as it is a direct commandment of the Prophet Muhammad SAW. There's a consensus on keeping the beard from all schools of thoughts in Islam, however there are minor differences amongst scholars on the length and size of the beard. Since keeping a beard is a part of ones manhood in Islamic custom, Shaving the beard is no doubt a major sin and consequences of it range from being stripped away from ones manhood in the eyes of the community and one may be considered an open sinner and not being accepted as a reliable witness in Islamic court. There are no punishments prescribed in the Shariah for shaving your beard, however beard remains an obligation on faithful Muslims given that they have facial hair.

I am not sure if external links are allowed on this site, but I hope this helps from Sunni POV:
Regarding the Beard

There you have one of those 300 guys Toxic

 

[toxic_pus]

No Sir, It is about their belief and perspective. If you ask me personally I find entire concept of god, Heaven and hell pathetic. But what I do know is the mindset of people who faith in this. Do you think a believer would accept that he might rot in hell for eternity or he could not attain nirvana because he backed from performing his religious duties? In his mind its 1 year Vs Eternity.

As usual, missed the point. What does the kid learn from this episode - that the most important thing in life is religion, and any sacrifice for this alright. Today it is an academic year, tomorrow it will be something else.

As with, what a believer would accept or not, I don't give a r@t's rectum to such irrational thoughts.

Why do we have to resort to such extreme examples? give a proper analogy. Yes if he wants longer hair or an ear piercing or even a tatoo I won't mind at all. Its a personal choice.

In other words, there are only certain 'priorities' among school kids that can be accommodated while the others may not be. These other 'priorities' can't be accommodated, based on what, really? Is it on the basis of your understanding of right or wrong? Or is it how these will reflect on a society?

I do.

Not really. Although we are disagreeing, no body is stifling your right to express your opinion. Although we disagree with the kid's claims, nobody has stopped him from going to the court or express his opinion.

Ask the same question to 1000 guys atleast 300 will say it is 700 will say its not. It is how you interpret it.

Speculation.

 

[Abasin Turi]

You're absolutely misinformed my friend, toxic.

Beard is a compulsion in Islam according to both Sunni and Shia traditions as it is a direct commandment of the Prophet Muhammad SAW. There's a consensus on keeping the beard from all schools of thoughts in Islam, however there are minor differences amongst scholars on the length and size of the beard. Since keeping a beard is a part of ones manhood in Islamic custom, Shaving the beard is no doubt a major sin and consequences of it range from being stripped away from ones manhood in the eyes of the community and one may be considered an open sinner and not being accepted as a reliable witness in Islamic court. There are no punishments prescribed in the Shariah for shaving your beard, however beard remains an obligation on faithful Muslims given that they have facial hair.

I am not sure if external links are allowed on this site, but I hope this helps from Sunni POV:
Regarding the Beard

well i hate going against a country fellow but its the truth.. islam is very broad minded dun make it narrow.. can you quote where in quran or even in hadith it is made a compulsion.. its not its your own choice.. dun licn to fake mullahs too much.. and try to read islam with open eyes...

 

[toxic_pus]

There you have one of those 300 guys Toxic

If you visit that link, the impression you will get is that beard is still recommendatory in nature. It is best if you have it. If you don't have it, you don't become a non-muslim.

Letting the beard grow is a sunnah that is highly recommended by our fuqaha, may Allah have mercy on them. Anyone who loves the Messenger of Allah (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam) should know that following his sunnah is a sign of sincere love. Anyone who despises the beard or makes fun of it should know that belittling or making fun of the sunnah is prohibited.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=3&ID=2238&CATE=414

 

[Skeptic]

If you visit that link, the impression you will get is that beard is still recommendatory in nature. It is best if you have it. If you don't have it, you don't become a non-muslim.

Yeah, agreed. So why keep him from doing something which is not "Best" if it is as harmless as beard?
I dont see the cons of a beard. You mention smoking - I can enlist 10 harms and still it is available freely and legally. Worst side-effect of a beard can be fewer girlfriends (from personal experience), which again is not exactly a BAD thing if you know what I mean.

 

[FireFighter]

From where I see this emphasizes the competent structure of checks and balances we have in India. Even if a incorrect judgement is made it is reversed.

India's judicial system....haha lets not open a can of worms. It's still a third world country with so many backward laws....needless to say People like Lalit Modi who has blood of thousands of innocent muslims on his hands still running around with full freedom speaks volumes of how much checks and balances there are in India's judicial system.

I think you want to instill some flame baits in a proper discussion. Markandey's interpretations were incorrect according to Supreme Court and ME but that does not make him Islamophobic or Anti Muslim.

You missed his reasoning and justification that is based on pure fear and hatred that he placed the blame on Talibanization and denied the poor student his fundamental right to practice his religion. Pray tell What the Student and his little beard got to do with Talibanization? Isn't it so clear that the Judge sees a potential Taliban in every practicing bearded Muslim? Is that how bearded muslims should be looked at suspiciously by the authorities with a vengeful eye?

At least have the moral courage to call a spade, a spade...

please dont feel offended but we have a saying

meaning you cant like what you never tasted. Billion here think otherwise. Now keep Pakistan out of this...

You're comparing me with a monkey in your assertion and expecting me not to get offended. How silly and idiotic of you. I really dont want to comment on your monkey assertion because i i know it has god-like status in India and I certainly dont have any intention of hurting the feelings of our hindu fellows on board here.

How can you claim to speak on behalf of a billion of your people when we have toxic and many others to prove you wrong.

 

[KSRaj]

needless to say People like Lalit Modi who has blood of thousands of innocent muslims on his hands still running around with full freedom speaks volumes of how much checks and balances there are in India's judicial system.

needless to say, folks like FireFighter with 2 hands and a lot of spare time type something that takes the discussion in a totally different direction!

Jus kidding.. dont take offence pls... Lalit Modi may have an attitude that a lot of people may not like ... but holding him responsible for man-slaughter and stuff like that is taking things too far!!

 

[Skeptic]

India's judicial system....haha lets not open a can of worms. It's still a third world country with so many backward laws....needless to say People like Lalit Modi who has blood of thousands of innocent muslims on his hands still running around with full freedom speaks volumes of how much checks and balances there are in India's judicial system.

You missed his reasoning and justification that is based on pure fear and hatred that he placed the blame on Talibanization and denied the poor student his fundamental right to practice his religion. Pray tell What the Student and his little beard got to do with Talibanization? Isn't it so clear that the Judge sees a potential Taliban in every practicing bearded Muslim? Is that how bearded muslims should be looked at suspiciously by the authorities with a vengeful eye?

At least have the moral courage to call a spade, a spade...

You're comparing me with a monkey in your assertion and expecting me not to get offended. How silly and idiotic of you. I really dont want to comment on your monkey assertion because i i know it has god-like status in India and I certainly dont have any intention of hurting the feelings of our hindu fellows on board here.

How can you claim to speak on behalf of a billion of your people when we have toxic and many others to prove you wrong.

Oops, Typical Pakistani flip flop. You congratulated me for calling ade a spade on last page only. Lalit Modi has his hands on not thousands but millions, but they are not blood red but green dollars. In case you were referring to Narendra Modi, He is being investigated by SIT.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/27331-gujarat-riots-sit-begins-probe-against-modi.html
Der hai Andher nahi...
But I know you can never be satisfied ...

Whether its me, Toxic or any other Indian, we argue on how to get things right, but we all agree in unison about secularism of India and it's heart being in the right place. And you want to debate issues - comparing deaths of thousands to Beard??

 

[FireFighter]

well i hate going against a country fellow but its the truth.. islam is very broad minded dun make it narrow.. can you quote where in quran or even in hadith it is made a compulsion.. its not its your own choice.. dun licn to fake mullahs too much.. and try to read islam with open eyes...

Islam indeed is very open and broadminded but we're not it seems. that doesn't mean should accept few parts of Islam that make sense to our minds but deny others that dont.
Making stereotype and generalization of any one is very bad my brother, whether they're Mullahs or even the enemy. Just be fair to people and thats what Islam says.

There you have one of those 300 guys Toxic

Labeling the opponent, eh!

Is that your rational way of refuting an argument?

 

[fhassan]

Greetings

The beard is highly recommended in Islam and it is disliked for a man not to have it. Having said that however, it is certainly not Fardh (compulsory) – just recommended and liked.

I really don’t understand why so many non-Muslims are against the beard?

It is completely natural for the man to have a beard, and if anything, a man who spends several hours a week shaving it off so that he can look more like a woman should be questioned more than a man who keeps his beard.

A lion wouldn’t rip off its mane, why then, do some people view a bearded man with disgust?

I was watching a documentary once about Christianity and homosexuality, and one of the Christian figureheads, who helped “recovering homosexuals” actually made them shave their beards off because he said that the beard promotes homosexuality!

Completely ignoring the fact that Jesus himself had a beard….

 

[Skeptic]

Greetings

The beard is highly recommended in Islam and it is disliked for a man not to have it. Having said that however, it is certainly not Fardh (compulsory) – just recommended and liked.

I really don’t understand why so many non-Muslims are against the beard?

It is completely natural for the man to have a beard, and if anything, a man who spends several hours a week shaving it off so that he can look more like a woman should be questioned more than a man who keeps his beard.

A lion wouldn’t rip off its mane, why then, do some people view a bearded man with disgust?

I was watching a documentary once about Christianity and homosexuality, and one of the Christian figureheads, who helped “recovering homosexuals” actually made them shave their beards off because he said that the beard promotes homosexuality!

Completely ignoring the fact that Jesus himself had a beard….

Yaar, tell this to my wife, she won't even let me grow a mustache leave alone a beard. And I hate shaving...

 

[FireFighter]

Oops, Typical Pakistani flip flop. You congratulated me for calling ade a spade on last page only. Lalit Modi has his hands on not thousands but millions, but they are not blood red but green dollars. In case you were referring to Narendra Modi, He is being investigated by SIT.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/27331-gujarat-riots-sit-begins-probe-against-modi.html
Der hai Andher nahi...
But I know you can never be satisfied ...

And the typical Indian flip-flop is to ignore the core issue at hand which is discriminiation against muslims at the Judicial level and highlight trivial spelling mistakes instead to divert the attention. I suggest you leave that job to Bollywood as it specializes in hiding internal issues over the cloud it creates over peoples minds.

Since you're not addressing any of the issues I raised in my last post shows you're trying to find a backdoor.

It took your ex Minister Jaswant Singh 5 years of research to build some sense and 70+ years to grow the moral courage to speak so openly about the systematic and institutional discrimination against Muslims in India.

I'm certain it'll take you some time...

Whether its me, Toxic or any other Indian, we argue on how to get things right, but we all agree in unison about secularism of India and it's heart being in the right place. And you want to debate issues - comparing deaths of thousands to Beard??

Once again dont make a fool of yourself by claiming to represent all Indians. India is a very diverse country with dozens of officially languages and religions practiced. I know Indians ranging from illetrates who cant even read or comprehend to intellectuals who don't even believe in secularism....so how can you make such a baseless claim? The ruling elites and major political parties are in agreement with a secularism in india that befits their socio-religious-economic ideologies, not every Akbar, Raj, Sukhbir and Micheal. You're clearly blinded by your layer of Indian patriotism. Open yourself up I suggest and argue based on principles not on patriotic emotionalism.

 

[Skeptic]

And the typical Indian flip-flop is to ignore the core issue at hand which is discriminiation against muslims at the Judicial level and highlight trivial spelling mistakes instead to divert the attention. I suggest you leave that job to Bollywood as it specializes in hiding internal issues over the cloud it creates over peoples minds.

Since you're not addressing any of the issues I raised in my last post shows you're trying to find a backdoor.

It took your ex Minister Jaswant Singh 5 years of research to build some sense and 70+ years to grow the moral courage to speak so openly about the systematic and institutional discrimination against Muslims in India.

I'm certain it'll take you some time...


Once again dont make a fool of yourself by claiming to represent all Indians. India is a very diverse country with dozens of officially languages and religions practiced. I know Indians ranging from illetrates who cant even read or comprehend to intellectuals who don't even believe in secularism....so how can you make such a baseless claim? The ruling elites and major political parties are in agreement with a secularism in india that befits their socio-religious-economic ideologies, not every Akbar, Raj, Sukhbir and Micheal. You're clearly blinded by your layer of Indian patriotism. Open yourself up I suggest and argue based on principles not on patriotic emotionalism.

Yeah sounded very credible, first two paragraph - A sweeping generalization, and second talking of diversity....

سارے جہاں سے اچھا ہندوستاں ہمارا
ہم بلبليں ہيں اس کي، يہ گلستاں ہمارا

غربت ميں ہوں اگر ہم، رہتا ہے دل وطن ميں
سمجھو وہيں ہميں بھي، دل ہو جہاں ہمارا

پربت وہ سب سے اونچا، ہمسايہ آسماں کا
وہ سنتري ہمارا، وہ پاسباں ہمارا

گودي ميں کھيلتي ہيں اس کي ہزاروں ندياں
گلشن ہے جن کے دم سے رشک جناں ہمارا

اے آب رود گنگا، وہ دن ہيں ياد تجھ کو؟
اترا ترے کنارے جب کارواں ہمارا

مذہب نہيں سکھاتا آپس ميں بير رکھنا
ہندي ہيں ہم وطن ہے ہندوستاں ہمارا

يونان و مصر و روما سب مٹ گئے جہاں سے
اب تک مگر ہے باقي نام و نشاں ہمارا

کچھ بات ہے کہ ہستي مٹتي نہيں ہماري
صديوں رہا ہے دشمن دور زماں ہمارا

اقبال! کوئي محرم اپنا نہيں جہاں ميں
معلوم کيا کسي کو درد نہاں ہمارا

You know who wrote it rite. I agree with him.