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Did the USSR really intend to attack Pakistan?

i dont think the ties between india and russia was so strong enough for india ti go own war in behalf o russia.
weren't we somewhat a part of the non-alighnment movement?

Yeah. But I kind of regret it. Soviets were there to help us in our time of need. Had we opened a front enough to distract some critical attention from USSR, Soviets could have bought enough window of time to crush the rebels. Feel guilty that Indira's pathetic management of economy did not allow us to get into action. Soviets were powerful enough to regroup and strike harder if some of anti-Russian attention could be diverted. We could have easily done that had our economy not been in a downward spiral in 80s and that idiot president announcing a total reduction in military expenditure.
 
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Yeah. But I kind of regret it. Soviets were there to help us in our time of need. Had we opened a front enough to distract some critical attention from USSR, Soviets could have bought enough window of time to crush the rebels. Feel guilty that Indira's pathetic management of economy did not allow us to get into action. Soviets were powerful enough to regroup and strike harder if some of anti-Russian attention could be diverted. We could have easily done that had our economy not been in a downward spiral in 80s and that idiot president announcing a total reduction in military expenditure.

The Russians could have used some economic help, not military. Militarily the rebels were unable to defeat the Russians.

So India's intervention, an ill conceived idea in many ways, would not have helped anyways.
 
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The Russians could have used some economic help, not military. Militarily the rebels were unable to defeat the Russians.

So India's intervention, an ill conceived idea in many ways, would not have helped anyways.

Soviet had enough technological and industrial might to come back again if their attention had not been so consumed in the war. They collapsed 80% due to their internal economy issues and 20% due to that stupid war. If we could have bled the jihadis even 10%, Soviets could have stood a fighting comeback. Because anyway after the Afghan war, jihad was focused against India. So at least we could have jumped into the action and dealt with them long before they created so much menace inside our country.
 
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This was probably a CIA because they knew that the scene was set to offset USSR by summoning probably the most ideological nation in the world, they knew that if they aroused Pakistan in general and the Pathans in specifically the USSR was bound to collapse and maybe the bought our leaders and made them fuel up the issue.........

In any case a mistake has been made the price of which we are paying till now.....
 
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Soviet had enough technological and industrial might to come back again if their attention had not been so consumed in the war. They collapsed 80% due to their internal economy issues and 20% due to that stupid war. If we could have bled the jihadis even 10%, Soviets could have stood a fighting comeback. Because anyway after the Afghan war, jihad was focused against India. So at least we could have jumped into the action and dealt with them long before they created so much menace inside our country

I read somewhere that Soviet was considering making India a satellite.. By sending in there Secret service
(KGB) inside India and manipulating the Information flo. THe Soviet Russia was no ones friend IMO and India did good remaining non aligned. The Soviets were already collapsing like America is today. Karma i guess.

Something the Soviets taught America

A very old video i think id share
 
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for those who saying that's USSR didn't intend to Pakistan, then why did they Attack Afghanistan, my personel thought is after succes in afghanistan The next target for Red Army was Probably Pakistan and Then Iran. Lets hav discuss that...
 
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I read somewhere that Soviet was considering making India a satellite.. By sending in there Secret service
(KGB) inside India and manipulating the Information flo. THe Soviet Russia was no ones friend IMO and India did good remaining non aligned. The Soviets were already collapsing like America is today. Karma i guess.

Something the Soviets taught America

A very old video i think id share

No one is a friend in politics but you must admit that USSR was a greater reliable partner than what US is to Pakistan in all these years. There are a lot of conspiracy theories revolving against USSR as well inside India but none can be proven. However, what can be proven is that they stood with us through thick and thin even if it was for their own long term goals. How many times have you seen US standing with Pakistan, Iran, Iraq or some other non-European ally through its tough times? None. Soviet Union did that when we were economically and politically a nobody.

That my friend, is a big gesture coming from a superpower, even if we consider it as a selfish act of gaining long term benefits through strong mutual interests.
 
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for those who saying that's USSR didn't intend to Pakistan, then why did they Attack Afghanistan, my personel thought is after succes in afghanistan The next target for Red Army was Probably Pakistan and Then Iran. Lets hav discuss that...

Nope. USSR wanted to retain their puppets the PDPA mate. That was the reason why they were there. They already had Vishakhapattanam port treaty with us to use for commercial purposes thus satisfying their quest for warm water without any war. Since we didn't allow full-fledged military bases to USSR in our soil, commercial deals were already on.

Their "invasion" was at PDPA's request which was the legal ruling party of Afghanistan and not a unilateral decision. You were never on their radar. Because if you were, you won't have been able to do jack. It was just that US decided to take advantage of economic problems inside USSR that their intelligence knew, by transforming a quelling of civil unrest into a full-blown war, radicalizing your country and screwing up Afghanistan for the next half century. Do you know how much development work Soviets did in Afghanistan? Excellent education, good dams, good healthcare, modern facilities; that country was like any contemporary Asian country with a positively developing economy. What was actually going to be crushing out anti-government rebels, was turned into a war when Soviets were suffering from weak economy.
 
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No one is a friend in politics but you must admit that USSR was a greater reliable partner than what US is to Pakistan in all these years. There are a lot of conspiracy theories revolving against USSR as well inside India but none can be proven. However, what can be proven is that they stood with us through thick and thin even if it was for their own long term goals. How many times have you seen US standing with Pakistan, Iran, Iraq or some other non-European ally through its tough times? None. Soviet Union did that when we were economically and politically a nobody.

That my friend, is a big gesture coming from a superpower, even if we consider it as a selfish act of gaining long term benefits through strong mutual interests.
Well its true but it still resonates with the Foreign policy wrt China don't u think?
If India got tangled between a **** storm involving two Nuclear armed Nations at that time ,thing would have gone bad real fast.. Isolating ourselves was a good decision IMO. It not like Russia isn't our friend anymore, but ..we couldn't have done much at that time if America had turned its gaze on us. And with Pakistan as its ally things could have been very different.
America actually refused Pakistan help during the 71 war until the deed was done..Whose to say what could have happened if they were anti India.

Still speculation is speculation .. i think USSR even tho powerful was already weak economically and India could do little to stop that .
 
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Nope. USSR wanted to retain their puppets the PDPA mate. That was the reason why they were there. They already had Vishakhapattanam port treaty with us to use for commercial purposes thus satisfying their quest for warm water without any war. Since we didn't allow full-fledged military bases to USSR in our soil, commercial deals were already on.

Their "invasion" was at PDPA's request which was the legal ruling party of Afghanistan and not a unilateral decision. You were never on their radar. Because if you were, you won't have been able to do jack. It was just that US decided to take advantage of economic problems inside USSR that their intelligence knew, by transforming a quelling of civil unrest into a full-blown war, radicalizing your country and screwing up Afghanistan for the next half century. Do you know how much development work Soviets did in Afghanistan? Excellent education, good dams, good healthcare, modern facilities; that country was like any contemporary Asian country with a positively developing economy. What was actually going to be crushing out anti-government rebels, was turned into a war when Soviets were suffering from weak economy.

The further deterioration of
Afghanistan’s situation in early 1979
moved Moscow’s leadership out of its
inertia, and directly into a trap.[11] For example, some twenty Soviet military
advisers (out of 1,500 in the country)
were publicly lynched and mutilated
by angry mobs in the city of Heart.
From then on, the attempt to create an
Afghan satellite state was justified in Marxist-Leninist terms of the Soviet
Union’s ‘internationalist duty’ towards
friendly neighbours. In a telephone
conversation to Taraki, Soviet Premier
Aleksei Kosygin soothed his besieged
counterpart thus: “We are comrades and are waging a common struggle
and that is why we should not stand
on ceremony with each other.
Everything must be subordinate to this
[relationship].”[12] The Soviet Union’s 1978 ‘Treaty of Cooperation and
Good-Neighbourliness’ with
Afghanistan served as the official
pretext to intervene militarily in that
country. Behind the comradely
rhetoric, though, were the obvious strategic benefits of the deployment. First of all, the Soviet drive into the
heart of Southwest Asia coincided with
an age-long, imperial Russian longing
for a warm-water port.[13] Of course, acquiring such a facility would have
required further expansion—
potentially through Iran to the Persian
Gulf, or into Pakistan—but this can
only remain conjecture. The timing of
the invasion of Afghanistan is also suspect. The fact that it came almost
exactly one year after the 1978
Iranian revolution, which brought to
power a government equally hostile to
US as to Soviet interests, strongly
suggests that the Politburo’s decision was based on a gamble of power
politics. Moscow argued that it was
pre-empting a possible ‘imperialist’
move in the region. This is certainly
evidenced in the political education
which Red Army units received prior to entering Afghan territory. When the
airborne trooper, Yuri Tinkov, was
ordered to hastily prepare for combat,
he quite tellingly assumed that their
destination would be Iran. Instead, he
received the following mission briefing: Our borders are threatened. The
American Green Berets intend to
conquer Afghanistan… [and] set up
their missiles. We don’t have the
military capacity that would enable us
to repel an attack directed from the south… It’s possible that they will start
shooting at us while were still in the air
—that is, if the Americans notice us. [14] The scape-goating of imperialists
reached absurd proportions during
the Afghanistan war. For example, the
opium addictions of many Red Army
soldiers was rationalised by their
officers in bizarre plots. The CIA and Hong Kong drug barons worked
together, they maintained, to destroy
the Soviet armed forces from within. [15] It was just discounted outright that the young conscripts could be
abusing local produce. What this
suggests is that, higher up the ladder,
military and political leaders may have
genuinely feared American
involvement in Afghanistan. Soldiers on the ground were certainly bored
by their political lessons, but the
expectation of coming face to face
with American and Chinese agents
was pervasive. This was chiefly
because, as Ellen Jones brilliantly put it, a Soviet soldier “like the American
consumer targeted by a repetitive
advertising campaign… may ridicule
the medium but he seems to absorb
the message.”[16] Such propaganda, as always, contained a hint of truth to
give it credibility.

Www.e-ir.info/?p=2905
 
.
The further deterioration of
Afghanistan’s situation in early 1979
moved Moscow’s leadership out of its
inertia, and directly into a trap.[11] For example, some twenty Soviet military
advisers (out of 1,500 in the country)
were publicly lynched and mutilated
by angry mobs in the city of Heart.
From then on, the attempt to create an
Afghan satellite state was justified in Marxist-Leninist terms of the Soviet
Union’s ‘internationalist duty’ towards
friendly neighbours. In a telephone
conversation to Taraki, Soviet Premier
Aleksei Kosygin soothed his besieged
counterpart thus: “We are comrades and are waging a common struggle
and that is why we should not stand
on ceremony with each other.
Everything must be subordinate to this
[relationship].”[12] The Soviet Union’s 1978 ‘Treaty of Cooperation and
Good-Neighbourliness’ with
Afghanistan served as the official
pretext to intervene militarily in that
country. Behind the comradely
rhetoric, though, were the obvious strategic benefits of the deployment. First of all, the Soviet drive into the
heart of Southwest Asia coincided with
an age-long, imperial Russian longing
for a warm-water port.[13] Of course, acquiring such a facility would have
required further expansion—
potentially through Iran to the Persian
Gulf, or into Pakistan—but this can
only remain conjecture. The timing of
the invasion of Afghanistan is also suspect. The fact that it came almost
exactly one year after the 1978
Iranian revolution, which brought to
power a government equally hostile to
US as to Soviet interests, strongly
suggests that the Politburo’s decision was based on a gamble of power
politics. Moscow argued that it was
pre-empting a possible ‘imperialist’
move in the region. This is certainly
evidenced in the political education
which Red Army units received prior to entering Afghan territory. When the
airborne trooper, Yuri Tinkov, was
ordered to hastily prepare for combat,
he quite tellingly assumed that their
destination would be Iran. Instead, he
received the following mission briefing: Our borders are threatened. The
American Green Berets intend to
conquer Afghanistan… [and] set up
their missiles. We don’t have the
military capacity that would enable us
to repel an attack directed from the south… It’s possible that they will start
shooting at us while were still in the air
—that is, if the Americans notice us. [14] The scape-goating of imperialists
reached absurd proportions during
the Afghanistan war. For example, the
opium addictions of many Red Army
soldiers was rationalised by their
officers in bizarre plots. The CIA and Hong Kong drug barons worked
together, they maintained, to destroy
the Soviet armed forces from within. [15] It was just discounted outright that the young conscripts could be
abusing local produce. What this
suggests is that, higher up the ladder,
military and political leaders may have
genuinely feared American
involvement in Afghanistan. Soldiers on the ground were certainly bored
by their political lessons, but the
expectation of coming face to face
with American and Chinese agents
was pervasive. This was chiefly
because, as Ellen Jones brilliantly put it, a Soviet soldier “like the American
consumer targeted by a repetitive
advertising campaign… may ridicule
the medium but he seems to absorb
the message.”[16] Such propaganda, as always, contained a hint of truth to
give it credibility.

e-IR » Why Did the Soviet Union Invade Afghanistan?

That is because radicalization from your country was spreading into Afghanistan and becoming a threat to Afghan government. Why do you think how come everytime your name springs in the Soviet-Afghan war?
 
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The USSR did have the 'reaching warm waters' ambition in the 1970s. Hence the strategy to gain political influence in Afghanistan and later among the Baloch separatists. But after the Iranian revolution and break-up of ties between Iran and US, the Soviets could easily reach the warm waters by aligning with anti-American Iran. There was no need to attack Pakistan for that. To stem the threat of a Soviet-Iran alliance, the US-Saudi alliance chose to fund the jihad in Afghanistan using Pakistan as an intermediary. The short-sighted Pakistani military establishment saw an opportunity to fill their pockets and ended up radicalizing a large section of their own people.
 
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That is because radicalization from your country was spreading into Afghanistan and becoming a threat to Afghan government. Why do you think how come everytime your name springs in the Soviet-Afghan war?

Afghanistan played Pukhtooistan card against Pakistan , they also helped baloch insurgents in early 70's and they are doing it till date. Pakistan just defend it self from Sovits and utilize the resources provided by Americans and saudi's and successfully completed its Nuclear programme.
 
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How old are you and what is your education level, the garbage you spew day to day is unbelievable. Afghanistan was steamrolled, the Soviet army had full control of every town in Afghanistan. Almost all casualties the Soviet Army suffered was from ambushes or a lucky stinger/anti aircraft gun hits. The only time the 'freedom fighters' aka Taliban managed to win a fight was when they ambushed supply columns full of 18-19 year conscripts. Having family that was Spetsnaz (special forces) in Afghanistan I can tell you than profession Soviet military forces such as Spetsnaz, paratroopers ect completely annihilated much larger forces.

Couldn't agree more, on a battalion or even at a platoon level, the Soviets won all the battles. Lets not kid ourselves here, Afghanistan was a small player whom the Soviets could crush in one bite. The Warsaw Pact alone could field more soldiers than the entire population of Afghanistan, if the Soviets wanted they could have fried up entire Afghanistan in a matter of minutes.

Wow, and where did you pull those numbers from? Your rear? You do realize that the Soviets had technology such as Supercavitation torpedoes and helmet mounted sights about 20 years before anyone else? You realize that the Soviets had robotic military vehicles in the 1930's correct? Or that the Soviets developed ion thrusters or Hall thruster back in the 1970's, even more interesting is that Lockheed Martin used Russian ion thrusters as well as Russian rocket motors. Plasma propulsion engines were also developed in the 1970's and only recently have other countries began to develop similar engines.

Talking from an engineering point of view, the war in Afghanistan showed how far ahead the Red Army was as compared to the Chinese. Before the Soviets moved in, they already had recconned the entire country and knew exactly what to expect. Their engineers didn't let the natural barriers slow their advance; they literally built their own infrastructure in a matter of hours, and Soviet tanks advanced unchallenged. Compare that to the Chinese invasion in Vietnam in 1980 where the Chinese Army was getting ambushed hit from left right front and back. The natural barriers that Chinese Generals were hoping would slow Soviet advance if the Soviets decided to invade China, the invasion in Afghanistan proved that the Soviets could simply build their own roads and these barriers were no obstacles for the Soviets to cross.
 
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