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Did the US just concede defeat in China tech war?

Nan Yang

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Pentagon and Treasury Department objections to proposed export controls indicate that the balance of power in the global chip industry has shifted towards China. Image: iStock

Did the US just concede defeat in China tech war?
Washington abandons long-expected rules to tighten controls on export of components to telecom giant Huawei

ByDAVID P. GOLDMAN

The Commerce Department has abandoned long-expected rules to tighten controls on US firms’ exports to Huawei, China’s national champion in broadband technology and the world leader in 5G Internet equipment. The Wall Street Journal this morning reported that the Defense Department blocked a long-signaled change in export rules that would forbid US companies from selling components to Huawei from foreign subsidiaries if 10% of the content is derived from US technology. The Treasury Department reportedly backed the Pentagon’s objections.

In related news, the United States has backed off from earlier threats to abandon a trade deal with Great Britain if Boris Johnson’s government allowed Huawei to build part of its 5G network, The Daily Telegraph reported on January 25. The United States has demanded that Britain exclude Huawei entirely in high-profile public statements. PM Johnson and President Donald Trump discussed the issue in a January 24 telephone call

In an apparent break from the previous US position, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told an audience at Britain’s Royal Institute of International Affairs on January 25 that the US might not oppose Huawei’s participation in some parts of Britain’s 5G network. Mnuchin said, “Which parts of the network it [Huawei 5G] goes into matters,” according to a tweet by the RIAA’s director Robin Niblett. “Is the Trump administration giving a sliver of manoeuvre to B Johnson?,” Niblett added.

Mnuchin’s declaration appears to echo the Johnson government’s position that the UK can manage any prospective security threat from Huawei as long as it is restricted to “non-core” parts of the 5G network. Last year, a study by British signals intelligence concluded that any prospective security problem with Huawei was manageable. A senior Huawei official told me, “The Security Evaluation Centre Oversight Board looked at our source code exhaustively, and pointed out some ways we could improve. In fact, they did us an enormous favor by calling attention to less than perfect architecture. We made an enormous investment in improving the software and are confident that we will satisfy UK security concerns.”

US technology companies, especially chip designers, sell the great majority of their products in Asia. China’s chip design and manufacturing capacity is expanding rapidly with a blank check from Beijing, and US companies fear that Huawei and other Chinese companies will retaliate against US export controls with a price war for the high-end chips that power smartphones and servers. The Pentagon and Treasury objections to the proposed export controls indicate that the balance of power in the global chip industry has shifted towards China.

The Wall Street Journal reports: “Commerce officials have withdrawn proposed regulations making it harder for US companies to sell to Huawei from their overseas facilities following objections from the Defense Department as well as the Treasury Department, people familiar with the matter said. The Pentagon is concerned that if US companies can’t continue to ship to Huawei, they will lose a key source of revenue – depriving them of money for research and development needed to maintain a technological edge, the people said.”

This appears to be an admission of defeat in the US-Chinese tech war, which in the long term is far more important than the trade war. China seeks to dominate what it calls the Fourth Industrial Revolution centered on 5G and artificial intelligence. China is investing massively in its “Made in China 2025” plan to leapfrog the West in high technology, while US support for basic R&D is barely half of its Reagan-era level in proportion to GDP.

In April 2018 the US banned chip exports to the Chinese handset manufacturer ZTE in retaliation for violation of Iran sanctions, shutting ZTE down until President Trump negotiated a massive fine in return for resumption of deliveries. Only four months later, in August 2018, Huawei announced its Kirin chipset for smartphones, claiming better performance than Qualcomm’s market-leading product. In December 2019 Huawei began shipping smartphones with no US components. It already had shipped 5G base stations in September 2019 with zero US components.

In May 2019, the Commerce Department placed Huawei on the “entity list,” requiring special licenses for US sales. As the Nikkei Asian Review reported in a December 2019 cover story, Huawei began “mobilizing Asian suppliers for a production surge,” leading “a split from US technology.” Taiwanese companies who for years had begged for Huawei’s business are now flooded with orders. Taiwan has the world’s best chip foundries, and Huawei depends heavily on Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing – for the moment. Meanwhile China has hired 3,000 Taiwanese chip engineers at double pay, to build chip foundries in the mainland.

Other US attempts to choke off Huawei’s access to chip technology have failed. The Chinese company uses chip design technology from Britain’s ARM, owned by Japan’s Softbank. In October, ARM announced that its exports to Huawei do not violate US content rules.

Despite the May 2019 export restrictions and Washington’s campaign to discourage Western countries from buying Huawei’s 5G technology, the Chinese giant boosted sales by 20% during 2019. In response to the failure of earlier efforts, the Commerce Department proposed to set the threshold for US content in offshore sales to Huawei at 10%, down from the present 25%.

A senior Huawei official told me that although the US restrictions are making life difficult for the company, China was moving rapidly towards self-sufficiency in the most advanced computer chips. That would do more than cut off US sales to China: It would enable China to undercut American companies in the global ship market. US chipmakers depend overwhelmingly on Asian sales.
 
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The tech war will continue. China in terms of technology is more of a threat to the US than the USSR ever was back during the Cold War. If I recall, back in the 80s, the USSR's computers were laughably obsolete compared to American ones ... compare that to Chinese technology today.
 
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The tech war will continue. China in terms of technology is more of a threat to the US than the USSR ever was back during the Cold War. If I recall, back in the 80s, the USSR's computers were laughably obsolete compared to American ones ... compare that to Chinese

You know what, Smartphone is the next revolution that change Human habit / technology. It's like the computers in 1980 - 1990 era in United States of America. There were a lot of new tech companies that related to computer at that era. Like Apple, IBM, Microsoft, etc. And a lot of new tech celebrities that became the richest men of our planet.

But why there is no new companies or new "Steve Jobs" raise in the United States now that rule over the Smartphone market? You have only 1 company who stand in this new tech revolution : The new Smartphone Culture. It's Apple. But what about the other?

In contrary, there are many new Smartphone companies in China, and there are several new tech celebrities born because of it. That's why China is like US in '80.
 
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The tech war will continue. China in terms of technology is more of a threat to the US than the USSR ever was back during the Cold War. If I recall, back in the 80s, the USSR's computers were laughably obsolete compared to American ones ... compare that to Chinese technology today.

true but the US is still ahead. Google has a quantum computer, China doesn’t have that yet. Also China can’t even make a passenger jet by itself and that’s on some 70s era technology. China also has no nuclear powered carriers. China is ahead of equal in some technologies but way behind in many crucial areas.
 
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true but the US is still ahead. Google has a quantum computer, China doesn’t have that yet. Also China can’t even make a passenger jet by itself and that’s on some 70s era technology. China also has no nuclear powered carriers. China is ahead of equal in some technologies but way behind in many crucial areas.
China is ahead in quantum computer
China has already put a ARJ-21 passenger plane in service with full design by China. China has demonstrated putting a passenger airplane in 1980 as Y-10 but due to politic ,it was abandon.
China has the tech to build nuclear carrier but cautions approach that delay it for carrier. They dont want to end up like France with a carrrier that can go 25knots only. They already build nuclear SSBN 20years ago and is going to apply it on giant ice breaker now.
China has hypersonic DF-17 and ship hitting ballistic missile which US has none.
In terms of supercomputer, China currently is alway ahead of US for last 5 years with the fastest one.

www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3015997/china-has-decided-not-fan-flames-super-computing
 
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China is ahead in quantum computer
China has already put a ARJ-21 passenger plane in service with full design by China. China has demonstrated putting a passenger airplane in 1980 as Y-10 but due to politic ,it was abandon.
China has the tech to build nuclear carrier but cautions approach that delay it for carrier. They dont want to end up like France with a carrrier that can go 25knots only. They already build nuclear SSBN 20years ago and is going to apply it on giant ice breaker now.
China has hypersonic DF-17 and ship hitting ballistic missile which US has none.
In terms of supercomputer, China currently is alway ahead of US for last 5 years with the fastest one.

www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3015997/china-has-decided-not-fan-flames-super-computing

The US is ahead of China in quantum computing. Stop pretending otherwise.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/tech/china-quantum-computing-intl-hnk/index.html

Where China is ahead is in quantum communications. However quantum computing is where the real action is at. The US has been investing and developing in this field for years, long before China so it has a big head start.

Also the ARJ-21 uses an American engine and avionics. Those are the brains and guts of an airplane.

It doesn't matter if China has the tech for a nuclear carrier, they haven't made it so that assertion means nothing.
 
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The US is ahead of China in quantum computing. Stop pretending otherwise.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/tech/china-quantum-computing-intl-hnk/index.html

Where China is ahead is in quantum communications. However quantum computing is where the real action is at. The US has been investing and developing in this field for years, long before China so it has a big head start.

Also the ARJ-21 uses an American engine and avionics. Those are the brains and guts of an airplane.

It doesn't matter if China has the tech for a nuclear carrier, they haven't made it so that assertion means nothing.
The one pretending and keep promoting the self delusion American feel good post, is you. Everybody knows CNN is a big liar and good in promoting anti China article.

US is a decline nation which u failed to admit.

ARJ-21 uses a military derived engine. If needed China, can convert one of it. But due to commercial acception and Internatiinalize, they stick with American engine. Tell me why US is not banning engine export to ARJ-21 to derail this project?
 
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The one pretending and keep promoting the self delusion American feel good post, is you. Everybody knows CNN is a big liar and good in promoting anti China article.

US is a decline nation which u failed to admit.

ARJ-21 uses a military derived engine. If needed China, can convert one of it. But due to commercial acception and Internatiinalize, they stick with American engine. Tell me why US is not banning engine export to ARJ-21 to derail this project?

China doesn't have a commercial grade civilian jet engine comparable to those produced by the US. Also, the export of it is not banned because passenger jets are not a threat to American security as Huawei's 5G technology is.
 
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China doesn't have a commercial grade civilian jet engine comparable to those produced by the US. Also, the export of it is not banned because passenger jets are not a threat to American security as Huawei's 5G technology is.
LOL... How selective? Maybe you want to claim C919 is also not a threat? Until now US haven banned Leap-X engine for C919? But not to worry. We have the so called option which u always denied.


Worst come to worst, we can used WS-20. It may have more fuel consumption but it force by state to buy it. It will sure hurt Boeing. Keep on your denial. :enjoy:
 
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Name a single Chinese product or industry that has revolutionized the world in modern times? That really says it all.

I can name an infinite amount from the US. You live in an American world. And that eats at the Chinese everyday.
 
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Name a single Chinese product or industry that has revolutionized the world in modern times? That really says it all.

I can name an infinite amount from the US. You live in an American world. And that eats at the Chinese everyday.
Commercial drone, smartphone apps cash payment. :enjoy:

Google map service idea originate from a Chinese map apps but due to small scale of the company. They demand fee from using their map app which leads to their downfall. Google steal their idea and implement into google map. Due to Google deep pocket, they can afford free service to user which lead to widespread use. Go google it and see whether what I say is true!
 
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LOL... How selective? Maybe you want to claim C919 is also not a threat? Until now US haven banned Leap-X engine for C919? But not to worry. We have the so called option which u always denied.


Worst come to worst, we can used WS-20. It may have more fuel consumption but it force by state to buy it. It will sure hurt Boeing. Keep on your denial. :enjoy:

The fact that China values its relationship with the US far more than the other way around shows that China is dependent on US tech and not the other way around. The US can hurt China by withholding the export of many advanced technologies or by ending cooperation in many different fields or refusing to train Chinese students.

If there comes a day when the reverse is true, then I will concede that China is technologically superior. Right now, China is No. 2. It has made tremendous progress but still far short of beating the US as the undisputed tech leader.
 
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Google has a quantum computer
No. Google is far from having a full fuction quantum computer. Their quantum computer is still in infant phase and can only resolve some math problems. In most fields it can not compete with traditional computers.
Name a single Chinese product or industry that has revolutionized the world in modern times? That really says it all.

I can name an infinite amount from the US. You live in an American world. And that eats at the Chinese everyday.
China is a late comer in science and most industries. 200 years later than US
 
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The fact that China values its relationship with the US far more than the other way around shows that China is dependent on US tech and not the other way around. The US can hurt China by withholding the export of many advanced technologies or by ending cooperation in many different fields or refusing to train Chinese students.

If there comes a day when the reverse is true, then I will concede that China is technologically superior. Right now, China is No. 2. It has made tremendous progress but still far short of beating the US as the undisputed tech leader.
Just becos China is pragmatic and we have shallow minded people taking it as sight of weakness? By your theory, China shall loses the trade war long ago and concede defeat and yet we have Trump sign truce with China now....
 
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No. Google is far from having a full fuction quantum computer. Their quantum computer is still in infant phase and can only resolve some math problems. In most fields it can not compete with traditional computers.
China is a late comer in science and most industries. 200 years later than US

Yes, the quantum computing field is still young but so far the US is solidly ahead.

Just becos China is pragmatic and we have shallow minded people taking it as sight of weakness? By your theory, China shall loses the trade war long ago and concede defeat and yet we have Trump sign truce with China now....

It's just a statement of fact. China depends on the US for critical technologies it still cannot produce itself. While the US doesn't depend on China for any critical technologies. Perhaps this may change in ten years, who knows, but currently this is the case.
 
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