Did the US just concede defeat in China tech war?

[Beast]

It's just a statement of fact. China depends on the US for critical technologies it still cannot produce itself. While the US doesn't depend on China for any critical technologies. Perhaps this may change in ten years, who knows, but currently this is the case.

Say that to Huawei. You are just in denial mode. China has demonstrated supercomputer that topped table without resort to any US chips.
China is going to launch a space station of its own since it's denial to ISS a decades ago by US.

 

[tower9]

Say that to Huawei. You are just in denial mode. China has demonstrated supercomputer that topped table without resort to any US chips.

China is ahead in 5G technology and maybe in five years this will pay off in a big way. But the US is still ahead in most other technologies and in many fields, it isn't even close.

 

[Figaro]

Name a single Chinese product or industry that has revolutionized the world in modern times? That really says it all.

I can name an infinite amount from the US. You live in an American world. And that eats at the Chinese everyday.

Yes but ultimately China does not need to "revolutionize" the world with technological breakthroughs. All they really need to do is to apply these breakthroughs, such as in AI or 5G, to commercial activities to cement their technological status. If Huawei was just another crappy Chinese companies, then why would the United States have gone to great lengths to lobby against other countries using it? Chinese technology poses a greater danger to American hegemony than the USSR did at their peak in the Cold War relatively speaking.

The US is ahead of China in quantum computing. Stop pretending otherwise.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/tech/china-quantum-computing-intl-hnk/index.html

Where China is ahead is in quantum communications. However quantum computing is where the real action is at. The US has been investing and developing in this field for years, long before China so it has a big head start.

Also the ARJ-21 uses an American engine and avionics. Those are the brains and guts of an airplane.

It doesn't matter if China has the tech for a nuclear carrier, they haven't made it so that assertion means nothing.

I'm sorry but I don't think is true. Did you hear about Google's quantum computing breakthroughs at the end of last year? Has a Chinese company/research institution achieved that yet?

true but the US is still ahead. Google has a quantum computer, China doesn’t have that yet. Also China can’t even make a passenger jet by itself and that’s on some 70s era technology. China also has no nuclear powered carriers. China is ahead of equal in some technologies but way behind in many crucial areas.

I would argue that China does surprise us. Just because they don't have nuclear powered carriers doesn't mean they aren't currently capable of making them. Take their EM catapult system for example. The US spent decades and billions of dollars developing it with a bunch of delays/issues and the Chinese come out of no where in 2017 with a working prototype. Whether it is better or worse than America's is unknown but I'm just saying they surprise us. But yes, in a bunch of areas, especially in semiconductors (e.g. EDA) China is way behind. That's why China still for sure needs the US.

 

[kankan326]

Yes, the quantum computing field is still young but so far the US is solidly ahead.

As I said Google's quantum computer so far is not very useful. Only when it can do decrypt work, as people expect a quantum computer should do, it is a win for US. Quantum computing is not a linear technology. Temporary lead can not be seen as solidly ahead. It's a little early to say that.

 

[tower9]

Yes but ultimately China does not need to "revolutionize" the world with technological breakthroughs. All they really need to do is to apply these breakthroughs, such as in AI or 5G, to commercial activities to cement their technological status. If Huawei was just another crappy Chinese companies, then why would the United States have gone to great lengths to lobby against other countries using it? Chinese technology poses a greater danger to American hegemony than the USSR did at their peak in the Cold War relatively speaking.


I'm sorry but I don't think is true. Did you hear about Google's quantum computing breakthroughs at the end of last year? Has a Chinese company/research institution achieved that yet?


I would argue that China does surprise us. Just because they don't have nuclear powered carriers doesn't mean they aren't currently capable of making them. Take their EM catapult system for example. The US spent decades and billions of dollars developing it with a bunch of delays/issues and the Chinese come out of no where in 2017 with a working prototype. Whether it is better or worse than America's is unknown but I'm just saying they surprise us. But yes, in a bunch of areas, especially in semiconductors (e.g. EDA) China is way behind. That's why China still for sure needs the US.

Is China making significant progress in technology? Yes.

Is China closing the gap with the US? Yes.

Has the US surrendered to China? Nonsense. Some Chinese nationalists here are just deluded.

The US is still far ahead as far as having a stranglehold on crucial technologies that China depends on. When and if the day comes that the situation is reversed, that the US has no choice but to play nice with China because America's economic well being depends on Chinese technology, then China would be the undisputed leader. However that day is nowhere near us yet.

As I said Google's quantum computer so far is not very useful. Only when it can do decrypt work, as people expect a quantum computer should do, it is a win for US. Quantum computing is not a linear technology. Temporary lead can not be seen as solidly ahead. It's a little early to say that.

Sure.

But the US is still ahead.

 

[GumNaam]

Certainly sounds like a defeat.

 

[LeGenD]

No, this is linked to the new US-China economic deal in the making.

Trump administration almost choked Huawei to exert greater pressure on China to consider a deal. All those claims of Huawei creating a new OS out of thin air to replace Android ecosystem were bullshit - this isn't child's play (Huawei CEO nearly admitted as much). New software ecosystem takes decades to build and successfully sell.

 

[Menthol]

USA and China have different approaches to the technology development.


USA is seeking a revolutionary tech that changes the world completely, like for example is IT, internet and robotic.

While China is like Japan, improving and perfecting old tech. As well as focus on big strategic technology like fusion nuclear reactor and other military technology.


I think the difference is in the mind.

USA is thinking out of the box.

While China just see what is already available or think of.

The fact that China values its relationship with the US far more than the other way around shows that China is dependent on US tech and not the other way around. The US can hurt China by withholding the export of many advanced technologies or by ending cooperation in many different fields or refusing to train Chinese students.

If there comes a day when the reverse is true, then I will concede that China is technologically superior. Right now, China is No. 2. It has made tremendous progress but still far short of beating the US as the undisputed tech leader.

Technology that China mostly depends on USA is IT.

China doesn't have its own popular OS and its ecosystem.

Once USA blocks it, it will be the end of China tech companies.


I don't know why, but Chinese seems to don't have a mind and way of thinking like Americans.

The way Chinese builds something can't be the same as Americans.

That is how China will need USA forever.

 

[Nan Yang]

USA and China have different approaches to the technology development.


USA is seeking a revolutionary tech that changes the world completely, like for example is IT, internet and robotic.

While China is like Japan, improving and perfecting old tech. As well as focus on big strategic technology like fusion nuclear reactor and other military technology.


I think the difference is in the mind.

USA is thinking out of the box.

While China just see what is already available or think of.



Technology that China mostly depends on USA is IT.

China doesn't have its own popular OS and its ecosystem.

Once USA blocks it, it will be the end of China tech companies.


I don't know why, but Chinese seems to don't have a mind and way of thinking like Americans.

The way Chinese builds something can't be the same as Americans.

That is how China will need USA forever.

Are you implying that Asians are inferior ?

 

[gambit]

Are you implying that Asians are inferior ?

Ask this gent...

 

[Nan Yang]

Ask this gent...

Why ? You should ask yourself ?

 

[gambit]

Why ? You should ask yourself ?

Most of you here ain't that smart. And not very well read, either. The bottom line is your arrogance and Mahbubani pointed that out in his book, which am %99.999 certain you are TERRIFIED of reading it.

The question is not about genetics but about culture. The more a culture stresses 'harmony' and collectivization, the less intellectually innovative the people becomes. The Western peoples dominated STEM primarily because the Western culture places individualism even if just slightly ahead of the collective. Am sure people are going to jump all over this but Mahbubani expected that when he wrote out his thoughts.

 

[hirobo2]

Next to India, the only other country who likes to brag they are ahead (while not really) is the USA.

 

[Nan Yang]

Most of you here ain't that smart. And not very well read, either. The bottom line is your arrogance and Mahbubani pointed that out in his book, which am %99.999 certain you are TERRIFIED of reading it.

The question is not about genetics but about culture. The more a culture stresses 'harmony' and collectivization, the less intellectually innovative the people becomes. The Western peoples dominated STEM primarily because the Western culture places individualism even if just slightly ahead of the collective. Am sure people are going to jump all over this but Mahbubani expected that when he wrote out his thoughts.

Read the book by all means but do not ignore the hard data and facts on innovation.

Commercial drone, smartphone apps cash payment.

Google map service idea originate from a Chinese map apps but due to small scale of the company. They demand fee from using their map app which leads to their downfall. Google steal their idea and implement into google map. Due to Google deep pocket, they can afford free service to user which lead to widespread use. Go google it and see whether what I say is true!

You cannot wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep.

 

[Paul2]

My take on it: if China were to start banning exports to US instead of purely symbolic retaliations, US would've sang differently. Life in USA would pretty much stop if China was to go after daily necessities.

Second to it, if China's retaliation was to go after American champions of the industry, their lobbying people would've put Washington upside down: tech industry is the biggest lobbying spender in USA after the pharmaceutical mafia.

China's weak initial response provoked even more adventurism from US politicians. It sent a signalled to them "It's safe to poke China."

If we sent them a message "Do this, and you loose the election," we wouldn't have this issue.

Xi was very easy to intimidate for US. He was too used to the idea of all threats from the West in recent years being just a clownade, and then he folded when US made him look like a clown himself, being afraid of even more public humiliation.