Did Tariq Ibn Ziyad burn his ships?

[Zarvan]

You just denied the authenticity of the Qu'ran by making that statement. That's Kufr I believe.
Go read the first verse I posted, again.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt

Mr if you have guts than tell me the method of Salah or Zakat or Hajj or Jihad or Fasting from Quran I challenge you will not find it there

---------- Post added at 08:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------

thus you proved my point that why Ahadis cant be trusted ? as every sect prays differently ... They have been used by Medevil time arabia to get a grip on power and money thats all. Only trustable form of Ahadees are which is acceptable to all sects to be on the fair side.

Sir that doesn't prove your point that proves that to follow orders of Quran you have to study Hadees because Quran has given orders and very little detail but how to do it you will have to read Hadees Sir

---------- Post added at 08:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 AM ----------

1) “The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and his angels and his scriptures and his messengers - We make no distinction between any of his messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.” Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #285)

2) “Say: obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in his guidance).” Ahl Al-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #32)

3) “These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and his messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success.” An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #13)

4) “and whoso disobeyeth Allah and his messenger and transgresseth his limits, He will make him enter Fire, where he will dwell for ever; his will be a shameful doom.” An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #14)

5) “They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and his messenger, if ye are (true) believers.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #1)

6) “O ye who believe! obey Allah and his messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #20)

7) “O ye who believe! obey Allah, and the messenger when He calleth you to that which quickeneth you, and know that Allah cometh in between the man and his own heart, and that He it is unto Whom ye will be gathered.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #24)

8) “and obey Allah and his messenger, and dispute not one with another lest ye falter and your strength depart from you; but be steadfast! Lo! Allah is with the steadfast.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #46)

9) “and the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and his messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.” At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #71)

10) “The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and his messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. and such are the successful.” An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #51)

11) “He who obeyeth Allah and his messenger, and feareth Allah, and keepeth duty (unto Him): such indeed are the victorious.” An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #52)

12) “and stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and his messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #33)

13) “On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they say: Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and had obeyed his messenger!” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #66)

14) “He will adjust your works for you and will forgive you your sins. Whosoever obeyeth Allah and his messenger, he verily hath gained a signal victory.” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #71)

15) “There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). and whoso obeyeth Allah and his messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.” Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #17)

16) “The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and his messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #14)

17) “Fear ye to offer alms before your conference? Then, when ye do it not and Allah hath forgiven you, establish worship and pay the poor-due and obey Allah and his messenger. and Allah is Aware of what ye do.” Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #13)

18) “Obey Allah and obey his messenger; but if ye turn away, then the duty of Our messenger is only to convey (the message) plainly.” At-Taghabun, Chapter #64, Verse #12)

19) “Mine is) but conveyance (of the Truth) from Allah, and his messages; and whoso disobeyeth Allah and his messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever.” Al-Jinn, Chapter #72, Verse #23)

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I know the views of shia about Tariq bin ziyad or even Khalid bin Waleed(R.A) but sorry to say our views don't match with each others just like our views about first three caliphas(PBUH) are not same

Tarid bin zyad was a great military commanders

The 17th century Muslim historian Al-Maqqari wrote that upon landing, Tariq burned his ships and then made a speech, well-known in the Muslim world, to his soldiers.

“ Oh my warriors, whither would you flee? Behind you is the sea, before you, the enemy. You have left now only the hope of your courage and your constancy. Remember that in this country you are more unfortunate than the orphan seated at the table of the avaricious master. Your enemy is before you, protected by an innumerable army; he has men in abundance, but you, as your only aid, have your own swords, and, as your only chance for life, such chance as you can snatch from the hands of your enemy. If the absolute want to which you are reduced is prolonged ever so little, if you delay to seize immediate success, your good fortune will vanish, and your enemies, whom your very presence has filled with fear, will take courage. Put far from you the disgrace from which you flee in dreams, and attack this monarch who has left his strongly fortified city to meet you. Here is a splendid opportunity to defeat him, if you will consent to expose yourselves freely to death. Do not believe that I desire to incite you to face dangers which I shall refuse to share with you. In the attack I myself will be in the fore, where the chance of life is always least.
Remember that if you suffer a few moments in patience, you will afterward enjoy supreme delight. Do not imagine that your fate can be separated from mine, and rest assured that if you fall, I shall perish with you, or avenge you. You have heard that in this country there are a large number of ravishingly beautiful Greek maidens, their graceful forms are draped in sumptuous gowns on which gleam pearls, coral, and purest gold, and they live in the palaces of royal kings. The Commander of True Believers, Alwalid, son of Abdalmelik, has chosen you for this attack from among all his Arab warriors; and he promises that you shall become his comrades. Such is his confidence in your intrepidity. The one fruit which he desires to obtain from your bravery is that the word of God shall be exalted in this country, and that the true religion shall be established here. The spoils will belong to yourselves.
Remember that I place myself in the front of this glorious charge which I exhort you to make. At the moment when the two armies meet hand to hand, you will see me, never doubt it, seeking out this Roderick, tyrant of his people, challenging him to combat, if God is willing. If I perish after this, I will have had at least the satisfaction of delivering you, and you will easily find among you an experienced hero, to whom you can confidently give the task of directing you. But should I fall before I reach to Roderick, redouble your ardor, force yourselves to the attack and achieve the conquest of this country, in depriving him of life. With him dead, his soldiers will no longer defy you.[5]

Tariq ibn Ziyad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This complete BBC documentary is interesting to watch

 

[Safriz]

crazy thread.....
started with questioning a trivial thing...if bin zayad burned his ships or not....does it matter?
he spread islam in spain....thats all that matters.

then the thread is now questioning hafith...quran...and equating the litmus test for hafith with something ad insignificant as tariq bin zayad' s ships were burnt or not..

long time ago discussing rkgion.was banned here...and such twisted threads should be dounle banned.
*presses report button*

 

[Awesome]

This wasn't the first time this had happened - Greek mythology/history has a few stories where they burned ships after landing shore, to instill the realization that there's no turning back. You either conquer or are dead.

So it was a tried and tested method back in the day. Even today, it may not be good military strategy, but its something people often use in sports, sometimes business, many times in politics... Battles are still won, we in Urdu often say "Kashtian jala di hain maine"... This is what its referring to.

 

[NiceFarmer]

Is this Islamic forum or what ? I posted a military history piece apparently on a military forum. The author of the article argued that case was not maintainable on basis of historical proofs i.e. history books. Where did Islam comes in ? Is Whole Islam balanced on the fact he burned ships or not. Childish Huh

And Greeks also said about Achilles Heel so are we implying that the whole myth was true and some man exists with same traits at that time ?

And By the way I didnt say about Hadith and all stuff. It is Pro Tariq people who started that.

crazy thread.....
started with questioning a trivial thing...if bin zayad burned his ships or not....does it matter?
he spread islam in spain....thats all that matters.

then the thread is now questioning hafith...quran...and equating the litmus test for hafith with something ad insignificant as tariq bin zayad' s ships were burnt or not..

long time ago discussing rkgion.was banned here...and such twisted threads should be dounle banned.
*presses report button*

 

[Mav3rick]

Is this Islamic forum or what ? I posted a military history piece apparently on a military forum. The author of the article argued that case was not maintainable on basis of historical proofs i.e. history books. Where did Islam comes in ? Is Whole Islam balanced on the fact he burned ships or not. Childish Huh

And Greeks also said about Achilles Heel so are we implying that the whole myth was true and some man exists with same traits at that time ?

And By the way I didnt say about Hadith and all stuff. It is Pro Tariq people who started that.

History is full of incidents of unbelievable acts of bravery, people who have the luxury of options call these moves 'stories' or 'stupidity', however when driven by determination based on religion, survival, love etc., one is capable of unbelievable deeds and only in such scenarios are heroes discovered.

Tariq Bin Ziyad did burn all his ships and gave only 2 options to his soldiers and himself, martyrdom or victory. There are many such cases in Islamic history of victory against innumerable odds for eg. battle of Badr or in non Islamic history....300 Greeks who held the hot gates against massive Persian army for 2-3 days etc..

 

[NiceFarmer]

Even that 300 figure is highly disputable , But If one says this 300 figure is wrong he is trying to destroy greek history

History is full of incidents of unbelievable acts of bravery, people who have the luxury of options call these moves 'stories' or 'stupidity', however when driven by determination based on religion, survival, love etc., one is capable of unbelievable deeds and only in such scenarios are heroes discovered.

Tariq Bin Ziyad did burn all his ships and gave only 2 options to his soldiers and himself, martyrdom or victory. There are many such cases in Islamic history of victory against innumerable odds for eg. battle of Badr or in non Islamic history....300 Greeks who held the hot gates against massive Persian army for 2-3 days etc..

 

[JonAsad]

thus you proved my point that why Ahadis cant be trusted ? as every sect prays differently ... They have been used by Medevil time arabia to get a grip on power and money thats all. Only trustable form of Ahadees are which is acceptable to all sects to be on the fair side.

You are wrong with the basics-
If Quran was enough for Muslims to learn every thing about Islam- then why are there many sects?-
Did the perfect Quran presents a different interpretation to different sects?-

and think that how come Allah forget to mention the technique of praying in the Perfect Quran?- instead he chose the Holy Prophet to convey it-

and think that if the Almighty Allah (the all knowledgeable of future and past- the perfect planner) didn't knew there will be followers objecting at the Hadiths authenticity-?- and he still chose the Prophet and made it a Sunnah- which you so blatantly are doubting-

 

[JonAsad]

Personally i dont believe in the burning of the ships myth-
A commander bound by the oath for the protection of govt- land- and its property- it would have been un-ethical- illegal- seen as act of miscreant-

 

[Mav3rick]

Personally i dont believe in the burning of the ships myth-
A commander bound by the oath for the protection of govt- land- and its property- it would have been un-ethical- illegal- seen as act of miscreant-

You are free to reason, however, the commander was tasked to win a war and conquer the land. The ships were just a part of his armoury which was more helpful destroyed then otherwise. The victory of Muslims was unbelievable and burning of the ships could have been 1 of the reasons for such determination to win the war as there was no other option.

 

[NiceFarmer]

Nobody bother to read the arguments and point raised by the writer. many muslim historians were not believed on such event, may be they were also under FoxNews's influence even before it was started

You are free to reason, however, the commander was tasked to win a war and conquer the land. The ships were just a part of his armoury which was more helpful destroyed then otherwise. The victory of Muslims was unbelievable and burning of the ships could have been 1 of the reasons for such determination to win the war as there was no other option.

 

[JonAsad]

You are free to reason, however, the commander was tasked to win a war and conquer the land. The ships were just a part of his armoury which was more helpful destroyed then otherwise. The victory of Muslims was unbelievable and burning of the ships could have been 1 of the reasons for such determination to win the war as there was no other option.

Through out islamic conquest- retreats to reinforce was not considered as a "sin" or morally down act- even the great Khalid bin Walid retreated many times to reinforce- re think- re strategize-

There is always another option- Tariq bin Ziyad was there to conquer not defend- these sort of acts like burning of ships are more appropriate and are more reasonable while defending with nothing to loose- - An invading army always have option to wait till its fully prepared-

 

[JonAsad]

It is Pro Tariq people who started that.

this thread should not be about Pro or Anti Tariq bin Zayad people-
Otherwise the reasoning will become obvious- thus rationality goes down the drain-

 

[Mav3rick]

Nobody bother to read the arguments and point raised by the writer. many muslim historians were not believed on such event, may be they were also under FoxNews's influence even before it was started

If your post was supposed to make any sense, it was probably meant only for you to understand.

 

[Mav3rick]

Through out islamic conquest- retreats to reinforce was not considered as a "sin" or morally down act- even the great Khalid bin Walid retreated many times to reinforce- re think- re strategize-

There is always another option- Tariq bin Ziyad was there to conquer not defend- these sort of acts like burning of ships are more appropriate and are more reasonable while defending with nothing to loose- - An invading army always have option to wait till its fully prepared-

I am not aware of any incident where Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed had to retreat, but I will take your word for it. Anyway everyone has his/her own strategy to deal with situations and Tariq-Bin-Ziyad's strategy was to leave no room for surrender, no option for retreat. It was probably a do or die situation for the invaders.