Did Ancient Pakistanis Defeated The Mighty Alexander The Great.,

[UnitedPak]

Pakistan Ancestory.....is till 1946, before that there were no Pakistani or Pakistan. So this is one point you will have to bear with.
The only way out can be if you could prove your lineage if by finding how or at what time of life Islam made its presence in your life.

Of course now that you have become an independent country, the dillemma would be, tobe out of the clutches of India, so the need arose to take on an new Identity. So what better place than the Muslim world..Iran, Iraq, etc Etc and OIC nations. Now to put a new identity, most Pakistanis are trying hard to somehow be one with Persians, Arabs ets. but the sad part is not much of incouragement from the other side.
Still I know its quite embarrasing to be without History, but instead of trying to find history amongst nonrelated sects, who will give you only discouragement, try it from your actual roots.
.


Finnaly Ancient Pakistani concept holds no water.

Everyone has history. You can only be "without history" if you dont know your history (seems Indians dont or they would know what was happening in India 5000 years ago instead of looking towards the Indus). Pakistanis know their history, from the Indus Valley civilisation, Gandhara kingdom to the Islamic kingdoms and all the way to the Pakistan movement. This is our history because it belongs to our people. We are not claiming to be Arabs, Persians or Indians when we just clarified our identity as belonging to the Indus Valley and not Arabia, Persia or India.

Its also worth noting that only Indian members are obsessing about the misunderstood MbQ version when most Pakistanis here accept IVC as being part of their identity. The important thing is that furious denials by Indians dont matter in the slightest to us. We know our history, identity, culture and religion very well, so we dont have to look across to neighbours.


"We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, name and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion. Legal laws and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life." -Quaid-e-Azam

 

[jayron]

Harappan Language- Proto Dravidian relation
The Harappan language (also Indus language) is the unknown language of the Bronze Age (2nd millennium BC) Harappan civilization (Indus Valley Civilization, or 'IVC'). The language being unattested in any contemporary source, hypotheses regarding its nature are reduced to purported loanwords and substratum influence, notably the substratum in Vedic Sanskrit and a few terms recorded in Sumerian cuneiform (such as Meluhha), in conjunction with analyses of the undeciphered Indus script.

There are a number of hypotheses as to the nature of this unknown language:

* The Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis places it in the vicinity of either Elamite or Dravidian, perhaps identical with Proto-Dravidian itself. This is endorsed by Kamil Zvelebil, Asko Parpola and Iravatham Mahadevan.[1][2]
* Michael Witzel (2001) as an alternative to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis suggests an underlying, prefixing language that is similar to Austroasiatic, notably Khasi; he calls it "para-Munda" (i.e. a language related to the Munda subgroup or other Austroasiatic languages, but not strictly descended from the last common predecessor of the contemporary Munda family).[3][4]
* a "lost phylum", i.e. a language with no living continuants (or perhaps a last living reflex in the moribund Nihali language). In this case, the only trace left by the IVC language would be historical substratum influence, in particular the substratum in Vedic Sanskrit.
* an Indo-European language, close or identical to Proto-Indo-Iranian: suggested by Shikaripura Ranganatha Rao.[5]
* a Semitic language: Malati Shendge (1997) identified the Harappan culture with an "Asura" empire, and these Asura further with the Assyrians.[6]

There is a handful of possible loanwords reflecting the IVC language. Sumerian Meluhha may be derived from a native term for the IVC, also reflected in Sanskrit mleccha, and Witzel (2000) further suggests that Sumerian GIŠšimmar (a type of tree) may be cognate to Rigvedic śimbala and śalmali (also names of trees).[7]

The question has some political significance in Indian communalism, the Dravidian and Indo-European hypotheses being embraced by Dravidian and Hindu nationalists, respectively (see Indigenous Aryans for details).

Harappan language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Present day Dravidian Languages Distribution

 

[jayron]

Pakicetid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Pakicetids)
Pakicetids
Fossil range: Early Eocene–Middle Eocene
PreЄЄOSDCPTJKPgN

Pakicetus.
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Cetacea
Family: Pakicetidae
Genera
Pakicetus
Nalacetus
Ichthyolestes
Wikispecies has information related to: Pakicetidae
Pakicetids or Pakicetidae are a carnivorous mammal family of the suborder Archaeoceti which lived during the Early Eocene to Middle Eocene (55.8 mya—40.4 mya) in Pakistan and existed for approximately 15.4 million years.[1]
As Cetacea, Pakicetidae precede the whales and dolphins in transition from land. Because their fossils were found near bodies of water, they are presumed to have spent part of their life in water.
Pakicetus was the first discovered in 1983 by Philip Gingerich, Neil Wells, Donald Russell, and S. M. Ibrahim Shah, and all species are known only from a few sites in Pakistan, hence the name of the first genera and the family as a whole. The region is believed to have been coastal to the Tethys Sea when the pakicetids lived, some 53 million years ago.
The pakicetids are presumed to be ancestors of modern whales because of the three following features unique to whales: peculiarities in the positioning of the ear bones within the skull, the folding in a bone of the middle ear, and the arrangement of cusps on the molar teeth. The current theory is that modern whales evolved from archaic whales such as basilosaurids, which in turn evolved from something like the amphibious ambulocetids, which themselves evolved from something like the land-dwelling pakicetus

So the scientific community even for creatures millions of years old excepts Pakistan as a separate territory. :p

Rafi You are awesome !

 

[airuah]

this thread can just be described as one sentence

"Pakistan's obsession with India"...

just because you dont have a seperate history...dosent mean you have to claim everything that is associated with India....


what can you expect from people who glorify kings like Ghauri who did nothing but plunder wealth from ancient India(that includes present day Pakistan as well) Just because history tells them that he plundered India they glorify him not even thinking that they were a part of that same India at that time( I pity people why glorify the person who killed their own people.)

 

[LaBong]

"We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, name and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion. Legal laws and moral codes, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life." -Quaid-e-Azam

Quaid-e-Azam's "nation" wasn't ancient Pakistan as it has been put in the article, but it's the nation of a particular religious group of whole subcontinent. Ancient non-Muslim Pakistanis aren't included in that "nation".

 

[AR]

so I must now summarize the whole thread

"Ancient Pakistan did not Defeated The Mighty Alexander The Great, There was no such 'ancient pakistan', however pakistan may claim history after 1947 AD. over that piece of land"

 

[Bang Galore]

The culture of the Indus Valley and even its religion has been separate, the people of this area were Buddhist when the ganges range was Hindu.

And since the Buddha lived in modern day Bihar, how do you think Buddhism got there? The Buddha lived in the 6th century BC, it does not explain the religion before that time.

You can claim what you want, but Pakistanis reject any linkage of their ancient civilisation to the bharati civilisation, these people ate meat, buried their dead, and also had no temples that would indicate hinduism.

The overlap of civilisation and culture is purely coincidental, it is not primary.

That's a silly argument based on ignorance. Many Hindus do bury their dead & have been eating meat for ages.

Who are you to say that there is no such thing as Ancient Pakistani, the geo-graphic are that is Pakistan is separate for the Ganges and has been around for millennia. We are proud of our history, which no indian has any claim over, end of.....lol

Actually that's a bit of a problem. you see, the guy whose symbols are the symbols of the Indian state ;Asoka was a governor of Taxila before he became emperor. One of our epics, the Mahabharata has as one of its principal characters- Gandhari; the mother of one of the two warring clans(Kauravas). She came from Gandhara (hence the name) & without her......well...no story!
So you see, we will have a claim, whether you like it or not.


This is one of the more interesting discussions on this forum for a long time & I am in full agreement with the surprisingly(refershingly so)many Pakistanis who rightly claim the ancient culture of their land as their own. Makes a nice change from the usual stories of having come from somewhere else which seems to be popular with many internet warriors who lurk in these forums.

 

[GUNNER]

Now fighting over history, are we..

Pretty strange, given that both Pakistan and India share a common history which has nothing to do with religion or nationality.

The land, which is now Pakistan, had a rich history in the form of great civilizations. We can own and acknowledge it without going into claims of rights.

 

[Boomerang]

Wow, Really!!! and what was his name who defeated Alexander... Porus Qureshi? or Porus Afridi? or Porus Nasarulla.......

What is your next invention?........let me guess.. the first Aliens to visit Earth were ancient Pakistani? ofcourse in Chinese designed rocket

Why don't you read some actually history books with open eyes, rather then keep your eyes covered with ignorance.

Well I dont want to spoil your mood but if you remember Porus was a Hindu King!

Hmm so...

 

[MYSTIC]

going by the logic of many Pakistanis in this thread they should not even have the Mughals in their history books as there capital were Delhi and Agra which are now part of India.

 

[StingRoy]

Now fighting over history, are we..

Pretty strange, given that both Pakistan and India share a common history which has nothing to do with religion or nationality.

The land, which is now Pakistan, had a rich history in the form of great civilizations. We can own and acknowledge it without going into claims of rights.

One of the very few intelligent comments I have read in this thread.

We have a shared history culturally for thousands of years and lets be proud of this heritage instead of bickering on laying claims of exclusivity.

 

[nwmalik]

Porus or Purushotham (His actual name) may be from the land which is now Pakistan. But Pakistanis do not want to remember anything pre-Islamic and remotely Indic. You people prefer to celebrate the Ottomans , Arabs and Persians than the people from your own land. Most of the Gandharan kingdom which was the amalgamation of Greek and Indian culture was in Pakistan. I wish and hope Pakistanis go beyond the time the idea of Pakistan was conceived and appreciate the land's ancient and rich culture.

yes u r right.
unfortunate but true.
we should remember and not forget our culture and history. This is what we r.
But religion is equally important also

 

[karan.1970]

Extremely funny the way Pakistanis on one hand lay claim to the IV civilization due to geographical location and then while claiming descendence to the Mughals, forget that the Mughal empire was based in Delhi

Who cares.. Pakistan can have all the history and the past. India will settle for the present and future

 

[rockstarIN]

Did Ancient Pakistanis Defeated The Mighty Alexander The Great.,

This is the thread here, but we only talk here only about 'Ancient Pakistanis'

Can we stick to the thread?

Can anybody tell how Alexander defeated Porus's mighty war elephants?

Alexander's weaponry was excellent, but given the battle zone which was not an open area (where Alexander's wars had been fought) how did he manage to beat the elephants?

His biggest strength is his cavalry, which does not have the special skills to fight against the elephant. His soldiers did see the elephants before contrary to the belief (one of the battle with Persians who had 12 elephants with them).

What I believe that the war was so bloody and stalemate as depicted in the film.

 

[Peshwa]

Extremely funny the way Pakistanis on one hand lay claim to the IV civilization due to geographical location and then while claiming descendence to the Mughals, forget that the Mughal empire was based in Delhi

Who cares.. Pakistan can have all the history and the past. India will settle for the present and future

Karan....in fact i would be fine claiming all Mughal achievements to India on the same logic....

Contributing to 1/3rd of the world GDP, building a wonder and coining the term "Mogul" as a sign of success based on their achievements is by no means an easy task....

Hell....I appoint you to make the deal with the Pakistanis for giving up Mogul history for the little bump in the road for Alexander....mountains out of molehills.... LOL!