Diamer Bhasha Dam: New developments made

[war&peace]

I did. You did not. You did not address the very nursery level point I made.

Not in mood for trolling.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Fragmented farms in hilly districts also are likely to have few volunteers. Check dams there can be built with government intervention. Your large agricultural holdings and the most fertile lands are in Sindh and Punjab. There the problem I pointed out remains.

Digressing here but fundamental underlying cause of the malaise you see in Pakistan other then failures by the elite are to do with sociological changes taking place in traditional Pakstani society. Since the 1970s traditional social structures have eroded. Tribal order has weakened leaving traditional maliks with less influence, in other areas feudal order has also began to dissolve. Much of this loose 'flotsam' has moved to urban areas - Pakistan has I think the highest urbanisation rates in South Asia.

This huge mass of people freed from the traditional order are easy prey for radical politics. In other parts of the world socialism, communism or even extreme right wing movements have found fertile ground in this particulat demographic. In Pakistan the religious right has harvested this group.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Labour is a small portion of the cost, real cost is the engineering consultancy, materials, transportation. Its a construction project not an excavation project where you can use free labour and shovels.

I am going . Apologies in advanced but what about raising a volunteer workforce? I am 100% sure there are people willing to pickup a hammer, pickaxe and shovel to build a dam or more dams.

 

[Path-Finder]

Labour is a small portion of the cost, real cost is the engineering consultancy, materials, transportation. Its a construction project not an excavation project where you can use free labour and shovels.

Believe me its going to make a huge difference. There will be need to do digging. Despite having machines its more about cohesiveness and united spirit.

Nothing is more rewarding than giving your time and sweat towards a noble cause. Its not for the present. It is a present for the future generations to appreciate what people did for their present. Thats why people picking up tools to construct has such an impact for future generations.

Just my wishful thinking maybe.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Most cost -

1. Management
2. Engineering and technical expertise
3. Machinery. Drilling, boring, dynamite, trucks, cranes etc
4. Matariels
5. Labour comes last

Most of 1,2,3, some of 4 will come from abroad. This is where instead of having our children in schools, universities learning technical subjects smacks us in the face. Instead we have good chunk of them not at school and another chunk in madaris learning about. Well what they definitely don't learn anything about how to build dam!

Believe me its going to make a huge difference. There will be need to do digging. Despite having machines its more about cohesiveness and united spirit.

Nothing is more rewarding than giving your time and sweat towards a noble cause. Its not for the present. It is a present for the future generations to appreciate what people did for their present. Thats why people picking up tools to construct has such an impact for future generations.

Just my wishful thinking maybe.

I agree. If we had the unity, organisational and discipline of Japanese or Ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids this could be done. But Pakistan does not have that discipline. stand at crossroads in Pakistan and see the chaos.

 

[Yaseen1]

fwo and nlc should provide their
services free of cost where possible as the

fwo and nlc should provide their
services free of cost where possible

 

[Path-Finder]

Most cost -

1. Management
2. Engineering and technical expertise
3. Machinery. Drilling, boring, dynamite, trucks, cranes etc
4. Matariels
5. Labour comes last

Most of 1,2,3, some of 4 will come from abroad. This is where instead of having our children in schools, universities learning technical subjects smacks us in the face. Instead we have good chunk of them not at school and another chunk in madaris learning about. Well what they definitely don't learn anything about how to build dam!

I agree. If we had the unity, organisational and discipline of Japanese or Ancient Egyptians who built the pyramids this could be done. But Pakistan does not have that discipline. stand at crossroads in Pakistan and see the chaos.

Yes, discipline has to be taught. Discipline is a frame of mind that comes with guidance. In a nation like Pakistan it can solve many many issues.

Learn one thing from the Chinese and that is discipline.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Learn one thing from the Chinese and that is discipline.

Unity and discipline are bedrocks of a nation. You can have 200 million unruly mob [Pakistan] or a united disciplined team [China] and you see the results. To begin with it is my opinion that no nation can develop without having national compulsory service for at least one year. It teaches discipline and unites the rich, the poor from every corner of the country. It fuses a nation. Try to find one major developed country that does not or did not have national military service. You won't find one.

 

[Cybernetics]

I am going . Apologies in advanced but what about raising a volunteer workforce? I am 100% sure there are people willing to pickup a hammer, pickaxe and shovel to build a dam or more dams.

If people volunteer then they are truly selfless and especially noble because it is peace time and no famine is in sight.

These types of construction projects have personal safety risks and many positions require specialised skills. Not to mention most of the costs are for machines, fuel, and materials. Vast majority of people with families won't risk doing this without compensation, they need to provide for their family and their kids should have a good upbringing. This is sort of like raising an army without paying them, maybe conscription can provide the necessary low cost man power. It is only viable during times of dire straits.

Asking for volunteers in this context puts all the burdens upon the few. There is a way of not forcing all the responsibility upon the few and noble, making their and their family's life hard in the process, that is through the financially able regularly paying taxes and each doing their job well no matter their position in society. If tax base was broadened, the hardworking and noble people can provide a good condition for their family, instead of them being the only ones heavily taxed (free work for the government can be seen as a tax). Honorable people will usually bring up honorable children, they should be rewarded rather than be the only ones heavily taxed if possible.

Personally I think it is unreasonable to force a few people to do all the work, every able person needs to contribute the way they can. A salary man pays their taxes and bills, construction workers work projects (even if risky), industrialists pay their workers on time and files proper taxes, etc. This way everyone will be better off and promotes meritocracy.

Maybe one way to supplement labour (if there is a shortage) is to use able prisoners that are deemed suitable. In the process they can reduce their sentence and or earn a small amount they can send home.

 

[Path-Finder]

Unity and discipline are bedrocks of a nation. You can have 200 million unruly mob [Pakistan] or a united disciplined team [China] and you see the results. To begin with it is my opinion that no nation can develop without having national compulsory service for at least one year. It teaches discipline and unites the rich, the poor from every corner of the country. It fuses a nation. Try to find one major developed country that does not or did not have national military service. You won't find one.

Discipline will have to be instilled, I have no hopes for the current generations but the future generations will have to be taught Discipline in the same way you learn ABC at school because things just cannot keep on going the way they have been. I think having some form of military discipline can do wonders.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Discipline will have to be instilled, I have no hopes for the current generations but the future generations will have to be taught Discipline in the same way you learn ABC at school because things just cannot keep on going the way they have been. I think having some form of military discipline can do wonders.

How do you think countries like Britain were welded into one? During the wars almost every able bodied man was conscripted into the army. Only old and young boys were left. Same for Germans. Same for French. Ditto Japan. Ditto Turks [they still have compulsory service]. Ditto South Korea etc etc.

 

[Path-Finder]

If people volunteer then they are truly selfless and especially noble because it is peace time and no famine is in sight.

These types of construction projects have personal safety risks and many positions require specialised skills. Not to mention most of the costs are for machines, fuel, and materials. Vast majority of people with families won't risk doing this without compensation, they need to provide for their family and their kids should have a good upbringing. This is sort of like raising an army without paying them, maybe conscription can provide the necessary low cost man power. It is only viable during times of dire straits.

Asking for volunteers in this context puts all the burdens upon the few. There is a way of not forcing all the responsibility upon the few and noble, making their and their family's life hard in the process, that is through the financially able regularly paying taxes and each doing their job well no matter their position in society. If tax base was broadened, the hardworking and noble people can provide a good condition for their family, instead of them being the only ones heavily taxed (free work for the government can be seen as a tax). Honorable people will usually bring up honorable children, they should be rewarded rather than be the only ones heavily taxed if possible.

Personally I think it is unreasonable to force a few people to do all the work, every able person needs to contribute the way they can. A salary man pays their taxes and bills, construction workers work projects (even if risky), industrialists pay their workers on time and files proper taxes, etc. This way everyone will be better off and promotes meritocracy.

Maybe one way to supplement labour (if there is a shortage) is to use able prisoners that are deemed suitable. In the process they can reduce their sentence and or earn a small amount they can send home.

Yes you are right, It's about giving your time. We live in an age where people can donate but no one seems to be willing to give their time. This is in an attempt to glue some sense of seriousness into the people and make them stick to cohesiveness. I am deviating from my original point but drawing a parallel from a project in China where people dug a canal (Red flag canal) which goes to show resolve of a nation where people are alive and not mere zombies. Unfortunately due to negligence things have reached such a stage where having all hands on deck is becoming necessary. As 2 dams is not going to cut it and more dams will need to be built in quick succession.

How do you think countries like Britain were welded into one? During the wars almost every able bodied man was conscripted into the army. Only old and young boys were left. Same for Germans. Same for French. Ditto Japan. Ditto Turks [they still have compulsory service]. Ditto South Korea etc etc.

maybe having a territorial army should be on the cards.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

As 2 dams is not going to cut it and more dams will need to be built in quick succession.

The truth is as @Cybernetics mentioned if everybody paid taxes then the dams could be built. If only one Pakistani in 200 pays taxes what makes you think they would volunteer thei time? Instead if most paid taxes the problems would vanish.

 

[Path-Finder]

The truth is as @Cybernetics mentioned if everybody paid taxes then the dams could be built. If only one Pakistani in 200 pays taxes what makes you think they would volunteer thei time? Instead if most paid taxes the problems would vanish.

Taxation will need enforcement backed by strict amendment in law too. recovery of assets is the quickest way to get funds quickly. Ultimately taxation will have to be implemented which is going to take time to be mainstream.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

How do you think countries like Britain were welded into one? During the wars almost every able bodied man was conscripted into the army. Only old and young boys were left. Same for Germans. Same for French. Ditto Japan. Ditto Turks [they still have compulsory service]. Ditto South Korea etc etc.

By the way, British didn't fight their own World Wars. They used cannon fodders from South Asia without recognition. The British officers would desert the soldiers from colonized countries when situation got dangerous.