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Dharma is not the same as Religion

So basically dharma is a particular school of thought?
Nope, its something like you can loosely compare to professionalism. If you are a police and if your family member commits crime then you arrest them that is your duty. If you are the last batsmen you still continue to bat for winning its your dharma (or sportsman spirt ):-).

it might be confusing , but if you are on management side you will know it better.
Karna’s Dharma | SanAtana Dharma
 
Its Such a simple world and you are messing with it.

Dharma means Duty, the nature of the being like Sun's Dharma is to give light, river Dharma is to flow, and drench the thirst of the thirsty, and for the Human the Dharma is to Live and grow his wisdom for the bettermeant of the Whole world.
 
Hinduism is an umbrella term .
Hinduism is a Union of many diverse culture and religious practices into 1
True & Rightly said..

So basically dharma is a particular school of thought?
Dharma is not just a school of thought but the core value which is hidden behind all the schools of thoughts of all the religions in the world..
I'll put it like this, There is a famous story quoted in Hindu scriptures to explain the concept of dharma and the story goes like this "The duty of a Sadhu (Saint) is to promote peace and harmony and to harm none. Like wise the duty of a scorpion is to Sting if some alien creature touches it because of its fear.. One day the sadhu was meditating on the river side and there was this scorpion which was getting washed away in the stream of river and the sadhu saw this.. Immediately he jumped into the river and took that scorpion in his hands with an intention of saving it.. But the scorpion which was already in fear and hence it stings the sadhu in the hands.. The sadhu unable to bear the pain drops it in water again but realising that he had to save it, he again takes it in his hands and again gets bitten.. A fellow sadhu in the shore asked him, why are u doing this..?
The Sadhu answered like this "scorpion is two sense creature, yet it is so determined in following its dharma which is to sting if any alien creature touches it.. But where as me being a guy with six sense should be even more stubborn in following my Dharma which is to save a living being in danger.. hence, I'm trying to save it.. I have no anger towards that scorpion because it is following its dharma.."
I hope this clarifies your question.. Dharma is not only just performing one's duty, but performing it without expecting any fruits for performing that..
 
The word “dharma” has multiple meanings depending on the context in which it is used. These include: conduct, duty, right, justice, virtue, morality, religion, religious merit, good work according to a right or rule, etc. Many others meanings have been suggested, such as law or “torah” (in the Judaic sense), “logos” (Greek), “way” (Christian) and even ‘tao” (Chinese). None of these is entirely accurate and none conveys the full force of the term in Sanskrit. Dharma has no equivalent in the Western lexicon.

Dharma has the Sanskrit root dhri, which means “that which upholds” or “that without which nothing can stand” or “that which maintains the stability and harmony of the universe.” Dharma encompasses the natural, innate behavior of things, duty, law, ethics, virtue, etc. Every entity in the cosmos has its particular dharma — from the electron, which has the dharma to move in a certain manner, to the clouds, galaxies, plants, insects, and of course, man. Man’s understanding of the dharma of inanimate things is what we now call physics.

British colonialists endeavored to map Indian traditions onto their ideas of religion so as to be able to comprehend and govern their subjects; yet the notion of dharma remained elusive. The common translation into religion is misleading since, to most Westerners, a genuine religion must:

1) be based on a single canon of scripture given by God in a precisely defined historical event;
2) involve worship of the divine who is distinct from ourselves and the cosmos;
3) be governed by some human authority such as the church;
4) consist of formal members;
5) be presided over by an ordained clergyman; and
6) use a standard set of rituals.

But dharma is not limited to a particular creed or specific form of worship. To the Westerner, an “atheistic religion” would be a contradiction in terms, but in Buddhism, Jainism and Carvaka dharma, there is no place for God as conventionally defined. In some Hindu systems the exact status of God is debatable. Nor is there only a single standard deity, and one may worship one’s own ishta-devata, or chosen deity.

Dharma provides the principles for the harmonious fulfillment of all aspects of life, namely, the acquisition of wealth and power (artha), fulfillment of desires (kama), and liberation (moksha). Religion, then, is only one subset of dharma’s scope.

Religion applies only to human beings and not to the entire cosmos; there is no religion of electrons, monkeys, plants and galaxies, whereas all of them have their dharma even if they carry it out without intention.

Since the essence of humanity is divinity, it is possible for them to know their dharma through direct experience without any external intervention or recourse to history. In Western religions, the central law of the world and its peoples is singular and unified, and revealed and governed from above.

In dharmic traditions, the word a-dharma applies to humans who fail to perform righteously; it does not mean refusal to embrace a given set of propositions as a belief system or disobedience to a set of commandments or canons.

Dharma is also often translated as “law,” but to become a law, a set of rules has to be present which must: (i) be promulgated and decreed by an authority that enjoys political sovereignty over a given territory, (ii) be obligatory, (iii) be interpreted, adjudicated and enforced by courts, and (iv) carry penalties when it is breached. No such description of dharma is found within the traditions.

The Roman Emperor Constantine began the system of “canon laws,” which were determined and enforced by the Church. The ultimate source of Jewish law is the God of Israel. The Western religions agree that the laws of God must be obeyed just as if they were commandments from a sovereign. It is therefore critical that “false gods” be denounced and defeated, for they might issue illegitimate laws in order to undermine the “true laws.” If multiple deities were allowed, then there would be confusion as to which laws were true.

In contrast with this, there is no record of any sovereign promulgating the various dharma-shastras (texts of dharma for society) for any specific territory at any specific time, nor any claim that God revealed such “social laws,” or that they should be enforced by a ruler. None of the compilers of the famous texts of social dharma were appointed by kings, served in law enforcement, or had any official capacity in the state machinery. They were more akin to modern academic social theorists than jurists. The famous Yajnavalkya Smriti is introduced in the remote sanctuary of an ascetic. The well-known Manusmriti begins by stating its setting as the humble abode of Manu, who answered questions posed to him in a state of samadhi (higher consciousness). Manu tells the sages that every epoch has its own distinct social and behavioral dharma.

Similarly, none of the Vedas and Upanishads was sponsored by a king, court or administrator, or by an institution with the status of a church. In this respect, dharma is closer to the sense of “law” we find in the Hebrew scriptures, where torah, the Hebrew equivalent, is also given in direct spiritual experience. The difference is that Jewish torah quickly became enforced by the institutions of ancient Israel.

The dharma-shastras did not create an enforced practice but recorded existing practices. Many traditional smritis (codified social dharma) were documenting prevailing localized customs of particular communities. An important principle was self-governance by a community from within. The smritis do not claim to prescribe an orthodox view from the pulpit, as it were, and it was not until the 19th century, under British colonial rule, that the smritis were turned into “law” enforced by the state.

The reduction of dharma to concepts such as religion and law has harmful consequences: it places the study of dharma in Western frameworks, moving it away from the authority of its own exemplars. Moreover, it creates the false impression that dharma is similar to Christian ecclesiastical law-making and the related struggles for state power.

The result of equating dharma with religion in India has been disastrous: in the name of secularism, dharma has been subjected to the same limits as Christianity in Europe. A non-religious society may still be ethical without belief in God, but an a-dharmic society loses its ethical compass and falls into corruption and decadence.

@Kashmiri Pandit @Nilgiri


There are two difficulties with your post, which I presume is a quotation from some other place.

While dharma, your excerpt repeatedly insists, is NOT law, it is a duty which includes and subsumes law, and it is an all pervasive duty which binds the gods themselves, in day-to-day practice, it reduces to law. Why else do we address the judge as we do Yama, as 'dharmavatar'? As the personification of Dharma, as the upholder of Dharma?

The second is that this definition is actually meaningless in our context. The Indian context of the liberal and secular democracy that we are demands adherence to the rule of law. Not to the rule of dharma, but to the rule of law. Pointing out the role of dharma as being over and above the rule of law is both meaningless and a acts as a source of confusion; putting any duty as superior to the law of the land straightaway creates a crisis of conscience for those already confused, and tempts them into thinking that their illegal actions are sanctified in any sense.

I suggest that we stop misguiding ourselves and others with these metaphysical speculations, and stick to the laws of the land, as determined by a sovereign parliament, and tested and passed by a vigilant judiciary.

@Nilgiri
@Kashmiri Pandit
@krishna11

PS: That is not to say that I didn't enjoy reading the posts, even those that I disagreed with. I wish there were more such posts.
 
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There are two difficulties with your post, which I presume is a quotation from some other place.

While dharma, your excerpt repeatedly insists, is NOT law, it is a duty which includes and subsumes law, and it is an all pervasive duty which binds the gods themselves, in day-to-day practice, it reduces to law. Why else do we address the judge as we do Yama, as 'dharmavatar'? As the personification of Dharma, as the upholder of Dharma?

The second is that this definition is actually meaningless in our context. The Indian context of the liberal and secular democracy that we are demands adherence to the rule of law. Not to the rule of dharma, but to the rule of law. Pointing out the role of dharma as being over and above the rule of law is both meaningless and a acts as a source of confusion; putting any duty as superior to the law of the land straightaway creates a crisis of conscience for those already confused, and tempts them into thinking that their illegal actions are sanctified in any sense.

I suggest that we stop misguiding ourselves and others with these metaphysical speculations, and stick to the laws of the land, as determined by a sovereign parliament, and tested and passed by a vigilant judiciary.

@Nilgiri
@Kashmiri Pandit
@krishna11

There is only two Points for you

First this is the attempt to show the difference between the Dharma -- and the Religion, which is wrongly used to used. Our culture which is Hinduism, is wrongly categorized over the period of the brief time. RAM, Vishu, Shiva , Durga Godess is not the Hinduism, they are the choice, the freedom to choose its own Diety, but our real Culture is based on the Vedas >> meaning Knowledge/truth. Yes we are Atheist, but we believe in God, we were always tolerant, but now the other people not trying to teach us tolerance.

A good example for you is How many Vedas are there --- For some people they are 4 -- Rig veda, Yajur veda etc, but in reality its only One --- Why -- When Vedas are Knowledge/truth how could it be some other number other than Unity.

A shaloka in Rigveda

नासदासीन्नोसदासीत्तादानीं नासीद्रजो नो व्योमापरो यत |
किमावरीव: कुहकस्यशर्मन्नम्भ: किमासीद्गहनं गभीरं ||

Srishtee se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin
(Before creation there was no truth, or untruth)
Antariksh bhi nahin, akash bhin nahin thaa
(no universe, not even the sky)
chhipaa thaa kyaa kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa
(Where was it hidden, who hid it ?)
us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa
(At that time there was no water)

Srishtee kaa kaun hai kartaa
(who is he creator ?)
Kartaa hai vaa akartaa

Oonche aakash mein rahtaa
(Who stays up there in the sky )
Sada adhyaksh banaa rahtaa
(who is in charge)
Wahin sachmuch mein jaantaa..Yaa nahin bhi jaanataa
(He truly must know everything, and maybe not!)
Hai kisi ko nahin pataa, nahin pataa,
(no one knows..no one knows)
Nahin hai pataa, nahin hai pataa

Clearly shows they are seeking the reality of the Creator who knows everything, and also doubting he might not be able to Know every thing of his creation >> showing High degree of Philosophical thinking and The restless Pursuit, desperation of the Truth or Knowledge .

This is what you can call a Vedic Religion for the sake of understanding of other Sects. But it does not mean it should be compared to other Religion like Cristanity or the ISlam with Bible or Koran, because with Vedas it does not means its is meant to believe without using his logical thinking.

‘To accept truth through a continuous process of rejecting falsehood every moment to best of one’s abilities in the most sincere manner is Vedic religion’. Vedic truth simply means that you should accept anything the way it is actually and then act accordingly.

Vedic truth means that you should accept something only when it is logical, systematic, not self-contradictory and above all in line with your own inner voice. Without carrying these tests of truth, if you accept anything that would be falsehood.

Second -- >> For the Law you follow by the book >> so mr. Sir Joe Shearer could you Give the name of the Book which shows me how a Citizen or the Man should EAT or Drink Water. No body is countering the Constitutional book of Law, which is also our Dharma is follow the low of our country, or when we go to some other country follow the low of that country.

Hope you like it, but if you don't like it --- Its my Dharma to remove the Misconception from the society.
 
There are two difficulties with your post, which I presume is a quotation from some other place.

While dharma, your excerpt repeatedly insists, is NOT law, it is a duty which includes and subsumes law, and it is an all pervasive duty which binds the gods themselves, in day-to-day practice, it reduces to law. Why else do we address the judge as we do Yama, as 'dharmavatar'? As the personification of Dharma, as the upholder of Dharma?

The second is that this definition is actually meaningless in our context. The Indian context of the liberal and secular democracy that we are demands adherence to the rule of law. Not to the rule of dharma, but to the rule of law. Pointing out the role of dharma as being over and above the rule of law is both meaningless and a acts as a source of confusion; putting any duty as superior to the law of the land straightaway creates a crisis of conscience for those already confused, and tempts them into thinking that their illegal actions are sanctified in any sense.

I suggest that we stop misguiding ourselves and others with these metaphysical speculations, and stick to the laws of the land, as determined by a sovereign parliament, and tested and passed by a vigilant judiciary.

@Nilgiri
@Kashmiri Pandit
@krishna11

Dharm to me rather than trumping the law of the land (which in itself is based on dharmic principles it can be argued)....should act as a moral and ethical conscience for everyone.

We do not consult a written book of law for every action we perform and think in our daily lives (outside of what we inherit from our natural existence and requirement). For 99% of the decisions one makes....is the question one asks ...is this strictly legal/illegal....or do we ask ourselves is this a correct thing to do from our intuition/upbringing?

Besides the law of the land changes with time and history, Dharm by its very definition is not just law....because it does not change. To me it is simply the underlying absolute truth of existence that we continually seek out. It is what we as humans ultimately perceive and make sense of from what surrounds us. Laws are just a tiny fraction of it. When we say dharm is higher than the laws we make to organise society, that does not mean dharm itself are a similar set of laws....it is simply the source from which laws come from. But much else comes from that source too....however we may perceive it as.

In a way it is the highest basic yet vectored form of the human psyche and existence. It has nothing to do with most of religion (which to me are the various narratives that seek to explain Dharm more readily and implement social interpretations of it)...nor can it be interpreted as just one meaning in any case (law, social order, cosmic physics etc)...rather it is the very acceptance that the only objective worthy of pursuit is truth...everything else is merely a distraction.
 
Dharm to me rather than trumping the law of the land (which in itself is based on dharmic principles it can be argued)....should act as a moral and ethical conscience for everyone.

We do not consult a written book of law for every action we perform and think in our daily lives (outside of what we inherit from our natural existence and requirement). For 99% of the decisions one makes....is the question one asks ...is this strictly legal/illegal....or do we ask ourselves is this a correct thing to do from our intuition/upbringing?

Besides the law of the land changes with time and history, Dharm by its very definition is not just law....because it does not change. To me it is simply the underlying absolute truth of existence that we continually seek out. It is what we as humans ultimately perceive and make sense of from what surrounds us. Laws are just a tiny fraction of it. When we say dharm is higher than the laws we make to organise society, that does not mean dharm itself are a similar set of laws....it is simply the source from which laws come from. But much else comes from that source too....however we may perceive it as.

In a way it is the highest basic yet vectored form of the human psyche and existence. It has nothing to do with most of religion (which to me are the various narratives that seek to explain Dharm more readily and implement social interpretations of it)...nor can it be interpreted as just one meaning in any case (law, social order, cosmic physics etc)...rather it is the very acceptance that the only objective worthy of pursuit is truth...everything else is merely a distraction.

I like when sir Nilgiri posted on philosophical post. thank you very much sir, for you contriibution.
 
There is only two Points for you

First this is the attempt to show the difference between the Dharma -- and the Religion, which is wrongly used to used. Our culture which is Hinduism, is wrongly categorized over the period of the brief time. RAM, Vishu, Shiva , Durga Godess is not the Hinduism, they are the choice, the freedom to choose its own Diety, but our real Culture is based on the Vedas >> meaning Knowledge/truth. Yes we are Atheist, but we believe in God, we were always tolerant, but now the other people not trying to teach us tolerance.

A good example for you is How many Vedas are there --- For some people they are 4 -- Rig veda, Yajur veda etc, but in reality its only One --- Why -- When Vedas are Knowledge/truth how could it be some other number other than Unity.

A shaloka in Rigveda

नासदासीन्नोसदासीत्तादानीं नासीद्रजो नो व्योमापरो यत |
किमावरीव: कुहकस्यशर्मन्नम्भ: किमासीद्गहनं गभीरं ||

Srishtee se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin
(Before creation there was no truth, or untruth)
Antariksh bhi nahin, akash bhin nahin thaa
(no universe, not even the sky)
chhipaa thaa kyaa kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa
(Where was it hidden, who hid it ?)
us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa
(At that time there was no water)

Srishtee kaa kaun hai kartaa
(who is he creator ?)
Kartaa hai vaa akartaa

Oonche aakash mein rahtaa
(Who stays up there in the sky )
Sada adhyaksh banaa rahtaa
(who is in charge)
Wahin sachmuch mein jaantaa..Yaa nahin bhi jaanataa
(He truly must know everything, and maybe not!)
Hai kisi ko nahin pataa, nahin pataa,
(no one knows..no one knows)
Nahin hai pataa, nahin hai pataa

Clearly shows they are seeking the reality of the Creator who knows everything, and also doubting he might not be able to Know every thing of his creation >> showing High degree of Philosophical thinking and The restless Pursuit, desperation of the Truth or Knowledge .

This is what you can call a Vedic Religion for the sake of understanding of other Sects. But it does not mean it should be compared to other Religion like Cristanity or the ISlam with Bible or Koran, because with Vedas it does not means its is meant to believe without using his logical thinking.

‘To accept truth through a continuous process of rejecting falsehood every moment to best of one’s abilities in the most sincere manner is Vedic religion’. Vedic truth simply means that you should accept anything the way it is actually and then act accordingly.

Vedic truth means that you should accept something only when it is logical, systematic, not self-contradictory and above all in line with your own inner voice. Without carrying these tests of truth, if you accept anything that would be falsehood.

Second -- >> For the Law you follow by the book >> so mr. Sir Joe Shearer could you Give the name of the Book which shows me how a Citizen or the Man should EAT or Drink Water. No body is countering the Constitutional book of Law, which is also our Dharma is follow the low of our country, or when we go to some other country follow the low of that country.

Hope you like it, but if you don't like it --- Its my Dharma to remove the Misconception from the society.

Now you say that the Vedas are one. Then what is to be done with the host of opinions, cited in the Vedas themselves, and in other authorities such as the Mahabharata, where the Mahabharata is listed as the fifth Veda? Why would such eminent people - to me, Vedavyasa trumps krishna11 - declare these to be separate? And did they have such little comprehension of the matter that you could, writing centuries later, expose their fallacies on a Pakistani defence forum?

Seems unlikely, somehow.

However, according to the law of the land, you have the right of free speech and free expression, so, as long as you don't break the law, please feel free to continue to tilt at windmills. That is more or less what you doing.

Dharm to me rather than trumping the law of the land (which in itself is based on dharmic principles it can be argued)....should act as a moral and ethical conscience for everyone.

We do not consult a written book of law for every action we perform and think in our daily lives (outside of what we inherit from our natural existence and requirement). For 99% of the decisions one makes....is the question one asks ...is this strictly legal/illegal....or do we ask ourselves is this a correct thing to do from our intuition/upbringing?

Besides the law of the land changes with time and history, Dharm by its very definition is not just law....because it does not change. To me it is simply the underlying absolute truth of existence that we continually seek out. It is what we as humans ultimately perceive and make sense of from what surrounds us. Laws are just a tiny fraction of it. When we say dharm is higher than the laws we make to organise society, that does not mean dharm itself are a similar set of laws....it is simply the source from which laws come from. But much else comes from that source too....however we may perceive it as.

In a way it is the highest basic yet vectored form of the human psyche and existence. It has nothing to do with most of religion (which to me are the various narratives that seek to explain Dharm more readily and implement social interpretations of it)...nor can it be interpreted as just one meaning in any case (law, social order, cosmic physics etc)...rather it is the very acceptance that the only objective worthy of pursuit is truth...everything else is merely a distraction.

You may ask yourself whatever question you like, and you may get (from yourself) whatever answer you decide to give yourself, but if you break the law, you are punished. That is where there is a disconnect between the philosophical meanderings of this thread and mundane, daily common life.

There is only two Points for you

First this is the attempt to show the difference between the Dharma -- and the Religion, which is wrongly used to used. Our culture which is Hinduism, is wrongly categorized over the period of the brief time. RAM, Vishu, Shiva , Durga Godess is not the Hinduism, they are the choice, the freedom to choose its own Diety, but our real Culture is based on the Vedas >> meaning Knowledge/truth. Yes we are Atheist, but we believe in God, we were always tolerant, but now the other people not trying to teach us tolerance.

A good example for you is How many Vedas are there --- For some people they are 4 -- Rig veda, Yajur veda etc, but in reality its only One --- Why -- When Vedas are Knowledge/truth how could it be some other number other than Unity.

A shaloka in Rigveda

नासदासीन्नोसदासीत्तादानीं नासीद्रजो नो व्योमापरो यत |
किमावरीव: कुहकस्यशर्मन्नम्भ: किमासीद्गहनं गभीरं ||

Srishtee se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin
(Before creation there was no truth, or untruth)
Antariksh bhi nahin, akash bhin nahin thaa
(no universe, not even the sky)
chhipaa thaa kyaa kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa
(Where was it hidden, who hid it ?)
us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa
(At that time there was no water)

Srishtee kaa kaun hai kartaa
(who is he creator ?)
Kartaa hai vaa akartaa

Oonche aakash mein rahtaa
(Who stays up there in the sky )
Sada adhyaksh banaa rahtaa
(who is in charge)
Wahin sachmuch mein jaantaa..Yaa nahin bhi jaanataa
(He truly must know everything, and maybe not!)
Hai kisi ko nahin pataa, nahin pataa,
(no one knows..no one knows)
Nahin hai pataa, nahin hai pataa

Clearly shows they are seeking the reality of the Creator who knows everything, and also doubting he might not be able to Know every thing of his creation >> showing High degree of Philosophical thinking and The restless Pursuit, desperation of the Truth or Knowledge .

This is what you can call a Vedic Religion for the sake of understanding of other Sects. But it does not mean it should be compared to other Religion like Cristanity or the ISlam with Bible or Koran, because with Vedas it does not means its is meant to believe without using his logical thinking.

‘To accept truth through a continuous process of rejecting falsehood every moment to best of one’s abilities in the most sincere manner is Vedic religion’. Vedic truth simply means that you should accept anything the way it is actually and then act accordingly.

Vedic truth means that you should accept something only when it is logical, systematic, not self-contradictory and above all in line with your own inner voice. Without carrying these tests of truth, if you accept anything that would be falsehood.

Second -- >> For the Law you follow by the book >> so mr. Sir Joe Shearer could you Give the name of the Book which shows me how a Citizen or the Man should EAT or Drink Water. No body is countering the Constitutional book of Law, which is also our Dharma is follow the low of our country, or when we go to some other country follow the low of that country.

Hope you like it, but if you don't like it --- Its my Dharma to remove the Misconception from the society.

Unfortunately, if you decide that a municipal corporation is not logical, systematic and is self-contradictory in forbidding micturation on the open street, and you decide not to follow that falsehood, you will go to jail, or have to pay a fine. The choice is yours.
 
You may ask yourself whatever question you like, and you may get (from yourself) whatever answer you decide to give yourself, but if you break the law, you are punished. That is where there is a disconnect between the philosophical meanderings of this thread and mundane, daily common life.

If you break the law you get punished? Only if you get caught....and only if the law is about something deemed significant to begin with. A law you break today, may not have been a law yesterday and vice versa.

But the seeking of truth (Dharm) by our species is an eternal one. We will eternally be curious about our species origin and fate and the same for the entire universe....since we all have for the most part accepted our time on planet Earth individually is limited.

I don't see why we are even talking about Law to begin with. Dharm is much more than human created laws.

Let's have a thread on why we sincerely believe that the Sun rises in the east.

All I have to do is call East as West...and voila the sun rises in the west.
 
If you break the law you get punished? Only if you get caught....and only if the law is about something deemed significant to begin with. A law you break today, may not have been a law yesterday and vice versa.

That is not how the law works. It may not have been the law yesterday, but you had better observe it today. Of course you have a choice; to deem it insignificant, to break it and to pay the price. Up to you; but try not to irritate the judge by philosophising about the nature of the law; he might push his discretionary limit and give you a stiffer sentence than he might otherwise. After all, he too has a choice.

But the seeking of truth (Dharm) by our species is an eternal one. We will eternally curious about our species origin and fate and the same for the entire universe....since we all have for the most part accepted our time on planet Earth individually is limited.

I don't see why we are even talking about Law to begin with. Dharm is much more than human created laws.

Oh, seek away, but try to remember why we are discussing the law, to begin with: talking about Dharma confuses weak intellects, who then think that they have a prescriptive right to debate every piece of legislation in their minds, and to decide whether or not to follow it or to follow Dharma instead. If they are stupid, they will follow Dharma, where Law and Dharma are opposed, and they will pay the price for it.



All I have to do is call East as West...and voila the sun rises in the west.

I can see that you have extremely interesting social interactions. Try not to have them with women; they are curiously prone to violence when faced with these ambiguous word games, where sometimes east means west.
 
That is not how the law works. It may not have been the law yesterday, but you had better observe it today. Of course you have a choice; to deem it insignificant, to break it and to pay the price. Up to you; but try not to irritate the judge by philosophising about the nature of the law; he might push his discretionary limit and give you a stiffer sentence than he might otherwise. After all, he too has a choice.

Not arguing that part of it :D. We are in agreement.

Oh, seek away, but try to remember why we are discussing the law, to begin with: talking about Dharma confuses weak intellects, who then think that they have a prescriptive right to debate every piece of legislation in their minds, and to decide whether or not to follow it or to follow Dharma instead. If they are stupid, they will follow Dharma, where Law and Dharma are opposed, and they will pay the price for it.

Agreed.

I can see that you have extremely interesting social interactions. Try not to have them with women; they are curiously prone to violence when faced with these ambiguous word games, where sometimes east means west.

Sage advice :).
 
Now you say that the Vedas are one. Then what is to be done with the host of opinions, cited in the Vedas themselves, and in other authorities such as the Mahabharata, where the Mahabharata is listed as the fifth Veda? Why would such eminent people - to me, Vedavyasa trumps krishna11 - declare these to be separate? And did they have such little comprehension of the matter that you could, writing centuries later, expose their fallacies on a Pakistani defence forum?

Seems unlikely, somehow.

However, according to the law of the land, you have the right of free speech and free expression, so, as long as you don't break the law, please feel free to continue to tilt at windmills. That is more or less what you doing.

Lolz I am explaining that Dharma is not religion, and Religion is more of Personal thing to a man, and Dharma is the duty including to follow the Law to keep the society , and you are confusing between the rules and duties written in the Law books.

And BTW Mahabharata is not the fifth VEDA, its the GATHA >> Historical story.
Vedas is not related to any religion, but you can consider it as the book for the knowledge. Other than that you are right that PDF is not the right platform to discuss religious topic, but when the discussion of Hindu tolerance is discussed, I thought its better to clear the doubt of the religion and the Dharma to the Hindus as well as non Hindus.

You may ask yourself whatever question you like, and you may get (from yourself) whatever answer you decide to give yourself, but if you break the law, you are punished. That is where there is a disconnect between the philosophical meanderings of this thread and mundane, daily common life.

I am clear with my doubts, but why you are thinking that performing Dharma means to break the Law. Question is the topic for which I created the thread is dharma is not the same as religion, and you are quoting law of constitution, law of PDF, I had clearly said this is not related to religion.

Unfortunately, if you decide that a municipal corporation is not logical, systematic and is self-contradictory in forbidding micturation on the open street, and you decide not to follow that falsehood, you will go to jail, or have to pay a fine. The choice is yours.

And how is this related to the topic of this thread sir joe shearer.

Enjoy BAHUBALI movie in Sony, time to go now.
 
Lolz I am explaining that Dharma is not religion, and Religion is more of Personal thing to a man, and Dharma is the duty including to follow the Law to keep the society , and you are confusing between the rules and duties written in the Law books.

You don't seem to read very well. My point was that following the law is very clear in modern society, and there is little or no scope to apply one's own principles or views in deciding whether or not to follow the law. Dharma, according to your latest iteration above, is a general principle, or duty, and it is applied to the particular minute detail, which laws in the law books (actually, the body of legislative acts is a more accurate description). That is not something which requires a PhD in philosophy to figure out. It also does not require anything similar to understand what I have been saying.

And BTW Mahabharata is not the fifth VEDA, its the GATHA >> Historical story.

You are wrong.

Vedas is not related to any religion, but you can consider it as the book for the knowledge. Other than that you are right that PDF is not the right platform to discuss religious topic, but when the discussion of Hindu tolerance is discussed, I thought its better to clear the doubt of the religion and the Dharma to the Hindus as well as non Hindus.

Only a thundering idiot would say that the Vedas are not related to any religion.

You are also wrong in linking Hindu tolerance, or lack of it, to understanding what Dharma is. There is no connection.

I am clear with my doubts,

That seems to be the problem, precisely. That the only thing that is clear is that you have doubts.

but why you are thinking that performing Dharma means to break the Law.

Performing Dharma does not mean to break the law, not automatically, but it is a possible misinterpretation, which the weak-minded will accept, and the evil-minded will propose to the weak-minded.

Question is the topic for which I created the thread is dharma is not the same as religion, and you are quoting law of constitution, law of PDF, I had clearly said this is not related to religion.

That Dharma is not the same as Religion is a platitude known to everybody. That Dharma is not a concept that can be followed in modern society, that the only concepts that can be followed lie elsewhere was the point being made, which you don't seem to get in spite of repetition.

And how is this related to the topic of this thread sir joe shearer.

If you have not understood, there is little chance of any further explanation making you understand, isn't it?

Enjoy BAHUBALI movie in Sony, time to go now.

And with that outlook, you expect to deal with Dharma and why it is or is not relevant? Seriously?

I suggest you wait till you cross a thousand posts or so, before you come up with such good ideas for a thread. The experience may make you better at forming and defending an opinion. If it makes you better than is the case now, we will all benefit.

@SarthakGanguly

You and some others have constantly accused me of impatience, of arrogance, of being intolerant of the views of others and several other things besides. How would you have reacted to this poster and his posts in any way different from how I reacted? I am curious, but do feel free to ignore my question.
 

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