DG ISPR trolling Indians : Pouring salt over Indian's wounds

[Pakistani Fighter]

No but we might get them in future ... If they are considering there probable future upgradation such as Derby ER then why don't we ?

U think USA would give you?

 

[The Accountant]

U think USA would give you?

Yes why not? if we pay in cash they will give it to us ... Considering we are going to use F16s for atleast next decade then this is a requirement ...

 

[xyxmt]

Like one of the Tweetari suggested, we should celebrate 27 Feb every year as a surprise day, just like sept 6th...now that will pour salt every year.

 

[Osiris]

Your post does not cling to facts at all.

1. Meteor missile is designed for NATO platforms like F-35 and Rafale. That ain't getting on the Russian Sukhoi.

2. 1-Derby ER still is outranged by AMRAAM. It has an operational range of 100km. So not sure who told you that it has greater range.

3. So much so for India's "K-172S" which was said to being developed and it was claimed that it has 400km range! Its all sham now after a decade.

4. Even a pigeon can dodge a BVR missile fired at it at max range of fire. When fired at large ranges, it is easy to evade.

5. The fact that R-77 is barely outranged by a few tens kilometers tells you that the IAF was incompetent, it could have very easily covered that range by simply being in the correct position to start with, your strategists are at wrong for putting its deployment in the wrong place.

6. It is also a fact that IAF claimed Sukhoi jets deployed flares... to escape radar-guided missiles. Let that sink in. I don't believe Sukhoi jets were outranged. No pilot is that incompetent to turn tail on BVRAAM missiles fired at max range, and deploy flares to counter radar-guided missiles. I think they were very much in range and in the dogfight.

7. BVR missiles aren't some magic wand that you swing and they will hit over hundreds of kilometers. In mountainous terrain specially, they are considered very easy to miss if not fired in a closer range.

8. No-Escape Zone isn't a giant 100+ km circle which guarantees a kill . It exists only as a conical shape in the direction the missile is fired, so turn rate, sensitivity of seeker and speed of jet matter. And it is the zone where "probability of a kill is high." Unfortunately, we don't have that number for the probability so we don't know what is high. 0.7 is "considered pretty high" for BVRAAM and AIM 120C-5 already is at 0.6 overall.

9. If IAF really wanted an outranging missile for the Sukhoi fleet, a much better option would have been the R-77 new variant K-77M integrated onto the Sukhoi 57. It has nearly 2-times the range of what the 110km Israeli 1-DERBY ER can offer. It was only q question of integration onto Sukhoi 30MKI.


Your Air Force is really just making a fool out of you people at this point. I am surprised no one has the audacity to question them on the "K-172S" they propagated so much, or the point of hundreds of 4.+ Sukhoi 30MKI and Mig 29 being said to be inferior to 19 F-16D Block 52+, or on them saying that clouds impede Military-grade radar. I am surprised to say the least by this Air Force.

In the end, your only true counter of "out ranging" (pretty stupid concept considering the fact that Air Bases are all along the border, and jets are deployed across the border, so all fighting takes place very close to the border, jets in range could go air borne, also the fact main place of conflict Kashmir is a mountainous terrain so... good luck) after exhausting your perfectly capable hundreds of Sukhoi and Migs, is the Rafale or Europeon Fighter. But, in the end, it all comes down to tactics and the pilots, the Rafale eater is a F-4 Phantom... let that sink in.

And PAF has, Alhumdulillah, an amazing track record in both wars as well as against the Soviet Air Force and the Afghan Air Force during 1980-90. These people are very good on the F-16 jet, and the JF-17 was designed to tailor specifically to these pilots. So I have no doubt they will out perform IAF in all spheres of aerial combat.

@Windjammer

Don' have time to write, long replies..but here is some information.


RAFAEL is unveiling a new, extended range version of its Beyond Visual Range (BVR) active radar-guided air-to-air missile – the I-Derby ER. It is an evolutionary version of the Derby BVR missile unveiled earlier this year at Aero India. The Derby entered service in the mid-1990s and is fielded with six customers worldwide.

The latest variant is equipped with a new seeker that employs an advanced solid-state Software Defined Radar (SDR), based on combat proven technology derived from the Tamir missile, the interceptor used in RAFAEL’s Iron Dome system.

The new seeker is lighter and more compact than its predecessor, thus clearing valuable space which has been used by the missile designers to increase the propulsion system by adding a second mode (kick), accelerating the missile at the terminal phase of the flight. This new addition increases the range of the I-Derby ER beyond 100 km., significantly more than its current “short/medium” range capability.

This “second kick” greatly improves the missile’s performance. “This phase is not serial, but operates independently of the primary rocket propulsion as it is activated at any time during the fight, by the flight control system.” Yaniv explains. The second pulse would likely kick in when the missile is closing on its target, accelerating it and increasing its kinematic envelope, thus increasing its “no escape zone”.

The use of SDR technology means the missile seeker can be reprogrammed with software upgrades including new waveforms, duty cycles and processing techniques, addressing new threats, countermeasures and techniques that may evolve through its lifespan of 20-30 years.



Another advantage of the I-Derby ER is its ability to lock onto targets before and after launch, enabling the aircraft to engage targets at all ranges.

Currently completing development, I-Derby ER will soon be available for delivery for new orders, or replacement of existing stocks. “We already have several customers seeking long-range intercept capabilities, some are looking at I-Derby ER as the most suitable and affordable solution for their requirements,” says RAFAEL.

A major advantage of the I-Derby ER is that it uses the same missile envelope. Unlike the AAIM-120D or Meteor, I-Derby ER will be compatible with aircraft currently cleared to carry Derby. RAFAEL claims it will be able to deliver 80% of the Meteor’s performance at a third of its cost. It is also superior to the AIM-120C7 and more affordable, the company claims. Already cleared on F-16 (Block 52), F-5E, Kfir and Sea Harrier, I-Derby ER integration tests are currently under way on the Indian Tejas LCA.

https://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/i-derby-er-all-new-performance-0

 

[Lincoln]

Don' have time to write, long replies..but here is some information.


RAFAEL is unveiling a new, extended range version of its Beyond Visual Range (BVR) active radar-guided air-to-air missile – the I-Derby ER. It is an evolutionary version of the Derby BVR missile unveiled earlier this year at Aero India. The Derby entered service in the mid-1990s and is fielded with six customers worldwide.

The latest variant is equipped with a new seeker that employs an advanced solid-state Software Defined Radar (SDR), based on combat proven technology derived from the Tamir missile, the interceptor used in RAFAEL’s Iron Dome system.

The new seeker is lighter and more compact than its predecessor, thus clearing valuable space which has been used by the missile designers to increase the propulsion system by adding a second mode (kick), accelerating the missile at the terminal phase of the flight. This new addition increases the range of the I-Derby ER beyond 100 km., significantly more than its current “short/medium” range capability.

This “second kick” greatly improves the missile’s performance. “This phase is not serial, but operates independently of the primary rocket propulsion as it is activated at any time during the fight, by the flight control system.” Yaniv explains. The second pulse would likely kick in when the missile is closing on its target, accelerating it and increasing its kinematic envelope, thus increasing its “no escape zone”.

The use of SDR technology means the missile seeker can be reprogrammed with software upgrades including new waveforms, duty cycles and processing techniques, addressing new threats, countermeasures and techniques that may evolve through its lifespan of 20-30 years.



Another advantage of the I-Derby ER is its ability to lock onto targets before and after launch, enabling the aircraft to engage targets at all ranges.

Currently completing development, I-Derby ER will soon be available for delivery for new orders, or replacement of existing stocks. “We already have several customers seeking long-range intercept capabilities, some are looking at I-Derby ER as the most suitable and affordable solution for their requirements,” says RAFAEL.

A major advantage of the I-Derby ER is that it uses the same missile envelope. Unlike the AAIM-120D or Meteor, I-Derby ER will be compatible with aircraft currently cleared to carry Derby. RAFAEL claims it will be able to deliver 80% of the Meteor’s performance at a third of its cost. It is also superior to the AIM-120C7 and more affordable, the company claims. Already cleared on F-16 (Block 52), F-5E, Kfir and Sea Harrier, I-Derby ER integration tests are currently under way on the Indian Tejas LCA.

https://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/i-derby-er-all-new-performance-0

The article says it right there. It has barely over 100km range.

Superiority doesn't necessarily mean out ranging another platform, that may be considered superiority in the minds of Indians but rest of the saner world knows better.

80% performance of Meteor here does not imply range performance. The 1-Derby ER has a range of 110 km and that is a fact. So much for "out ranging."

And you don't need to reply to rest of my points, you don't have the answer for them, I know that. Just try to bring up facts next time and not your own half baked interpretations of articles.

For source.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israel-long-range-fashion-catches-on-in-iaf-421153/

 

[Osiris]

The article says it right there. It has barely over 100km range.

Superiority doesn't necessarily mean out ranging another platform, that may be considered superiority in the minds of Indians but rest of the saner world knows better.

80% performance of Meteor here does not imply range performance. The 1-Derby ER has a range of 110 km and that is a fact. So much for "out ranging."

And you don't need to reply to rest of my points, you don't have the answer for them, I know that. Just try to bring up facts next time and not your own half baked interpretations of articles.

For source.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israel-long-range-fashion-catches-on-in-iaf-421153/

Derby ER has a larger no escape envelope than that of Aim 120 C-7, due to its second kick propulsion and lock on after launch capability.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Your post does not cling to facts at all.

1. Meteor missile is designed for NATO platforms like F-35 and Rafale. That ain't getting on the Russian Sukhoi.

2. 1-Derby ER still is outranged by AMRAAM. It has an operational range of 100km. So not sure who told you that it has greater range.

3. So much so for India's "K-172S" which was said to being developed and it was claimed that it has 400km range! Its all sham now after a decade.

4. Even a pigeon can dodge a BVR missile fired at it at max range of fire. When fired at large ranges, it is easy to evade.

5. The fact that R-77 is barely outranged by a few tens kilometers tells you that the IAF was incompetent, it could have very easily covered that range by simply being in the correct position to start with, your strategists are at wrong for putting its deployment in the wrong place.

6. It is also a fact that IAF claimed Sukhoi jets deployed flares... to escape radar-guided missiles. Let that sink in. I don't believe Sukhoi jets were outranged. No pilot is that incompetent to turn tail on BVRAAM missiles fired at max range, and deploy flares to counter radar-guided missiles. I think they were very much in range and in the dogfight.

7. BVR missiles aren't some magic wand that you swing and they will hit over hundreds of kilometers. In mountainous terrain specially, they are considered very easy to miss if not fired in a closer range.

8. No-Escape Zone isn't a giant 100+ km circle which guarantees a kill . It exists only as a conical shape in the direction the missile is fired, so turn rate, sensitivity of seeker and speed of jet matter. And it is the zone where "probability of a kill is high." Unfortunately, we don't have that number for the probability so we don't know what is high. 0.7 is "considered pretty high" for BVRAAM and AIM 120C-5 already is at 0.6 overall.

9. If IAF really wanted an outranging missile for the Sukhoi fleet, a much better option would have been the R-77 new variant K-77M integrated onto the Sukhoi 57. It has nearly 2-times the range of what the 110km Israeli 1-DERBY ER can offer. It was only q question of integration onto Sukhoi 30MKI.


Your Air Force is really just making a fool out of you people at this point. I am surprised no one has the audacity to question them on the "K-172S" they propagated so much, or the point of hundreds of 4.+ Sukhoi 30MKI and Mig 29 being said to be inferior to 19 F-16D Block 52+, or on them saying that clouds impede Military-grade radar. I am surprised to say the least by this Air Force.

In the end, your only true counter of "out ranging" (pretty stupid concept considering the fact that Air Bases are all along the border, and jets are deployed across the border, so all fighting takes place very close to the border, jets in range could go air borne, also the fact main place of conflict Kashmir is a mountainous terrain so... good luck) after exhausting your perfectly capable hundreds of Sukhoi and Migs, is the Rafale or Europeon Fighter. But, in the end, it all comes down to tactics and the pilots, the Rafale eater is a F-4 Phantom... let that sink in.

And PAF has, Alhumdulillah, an amazing track record in both wars as well as against the Soviet Air Force and the Afghan Air Force during 1980-90. These people are very good on the F-16 jet, and the JF-17 was designed to tailor specifically to these pilots. So I have no doubt they will out perform IAF in all spheres of aerial combat.

@Windjammer

Amin Summe Amin...

 

[TOPGUN]

Indian AF including all of india's armed forces are cowards and pathetic as they come only belong in Bollywood with nach and ghana lolz lamo

 

[The Accountant]

Derby ER has a larger no escape envelope than that of Aim 120 C-7, due to its second kick propulsion and lock on after launch capability.

Source of this absurd claim ? Kill zone is a function of seeker and not of the motor ... so your argument is baseless

 

[Microsoft]

Two SU-30s took off that day but how many came back? That is the real question!

 

[YeBeWarned]

Amram has RAM the indians hard and brutal on 27th Feb

 

[Lincoln]

Derby ER has a larger no escape envelope than that of Aim 120 C-7, due to its second kick propulsion and lock on after launch capability.

Okay, but its operational range does not exceed 110 km. No Escape Zone does not exceed the operational range.

 

[Osiris]

Source of this absurd claim ? Kill zone is a function of seeker and not of the motor ... so your argument is baseless

Haha, what an analyst, you are, go read about the this topic, some more. Go read, why a ramjet powered Meteor has 3 times the No escape zone, as that off Aim 120 C7.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

After last days acceptance that SU 30s ran away from the battlefield trying to avoid Aim-120 fired at their tails. DG ISPR is now in full "Masti" pouring salt over Indian's wounds.
We all should do that with pride to make Indians realised how Indian government lied to the Indians.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1133815538013089794

Sad to see that the DG ISPR of Pakistan, a man holding such a high position of a country is nothing better than a common jobless twitter troll.

That, on the day, Su 30s missiles did not have the same range as Pak's Amraams is an acknowledged fact from India right from the very beginning. In fact that was the disadvantage IAF faced that day and now that is being changed. There is no revelation here. Any serious observer is aware of that.

 

[Osiris]

Okay, but its operational range does not exceed 110 km. No Escape Zone does not exceed the operational range.

So ? Even with marginally lesser range, a Derby ER has more kinematic potential than Aim 120 at the end of its run, due to the presence of this second kick propulsion. Hence a larger No escape zone.