DF-21D "carrier killer" missile for Pakistan?

[LeGenD]

It has probably intercepted single "stuff". When you have multiple DF-21D fired at aircraft carrier/warship? I doubt it would be able to intercept them all.

AN/SPY-1D(v) can detect and track over 100 targets in real-time in short order; it can develop Fire Solution(s) for many targets in the process. A single warship have limited magazine of-course but then multiple warships can be committed to a theater of operations and they are sensor-netted to each other (CEC) - this a topic in itself. Then there is the factor of how multiple warships can be positioned next to each other in order to complicate saturation attack options (military tactics in short). USN is competent in the EW regime in particular. USN seems to be very well equipped for a wide range of contingencies in the present, and it continues to evolve further at a rapid pace. While numerous Think Tanks were busy creating narratives for public consumption, USN was building formidable defenses without making much noise in the process. Now - suddenly - there are so many pointers on the web that these continue to surprise potential readers. WE need to be realistic in our expectations in this matter.

 

[Mugwop]

Why not Chinese aircraft carrier, Chinese SLBM's, Chinese J-20,J-31 etc

Anything is possible in such imaginations.

Have you seen the coast line of Pakistan what will they do with a A.C?
J-20 Paf wont opt for a fighter that big.
Nothing wrong in hypothetical discussion as the OP pointed out.
I prefer these kinda threads over cry baby indian threads.

 

[Abid123]

AN/SPY-1D(v) can detect and track over 100 targets in real-time in short order; it can develop Fire Solution(s) for many targets in the process. A single warship have limited magazine of-course but then multiple warships can be committed to a theater of operations and they are sensor-netted to each other (CEC) - this a topic in itself. Then there is the factor of how multiple warships can be positioned next to each other in order to complicate saturation attack options (military tactics in short). USN is competent in the EW regime in particular. USN seems to be very well equipped for a wide range of contingencies in the present, and it continues to evolve further at a rapid pace. While numerous Think Tanks were busy creating narratives for public consumption, USN was building formidable defenses without making much noise in the process. Now - suddenly - there are so many pointers on the web that these continue to surprise potential readers. WE need to be realistic in our expectations in this matter.

A lot of american equipmtent is overrated. American patriot defence system failed to intercept yemeni houthi missiles. Yugoslav army unit (The 3rd Brigade of the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade) shot down the "stealth" F-117A by using soviet S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The DF-21D/DF-26 poses a real threat to american aircraft carriers in the South China sea:

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

Also if Pakistan gets the DF-21D/DF-26 its primary target would be India's aircraft carriers.

 

[Baibars_1260]

such an over kill for pakistan

keeping Indian aircraft carriers in mind, C802s are more than enough

Not derailing the topic but there is a primitive option of the "nuclear "
mine " used by the Soviet Union in the early 1960s when submarine or surface launched missiles were still under development.
This was nearly used in 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis.

A submarine would release a nuclear device equipped mine which would float to the surface and detonate on a timer ( or instantly if set thus ). Even from a distance, the surface blast was sufficient to destroy an aircraft carrier and it's destroyer escort.

When the US navy had blockaded Cuba in 1962, a Soviet submarine in the area dived below the "communications " depth ( ULW communications hadn't been invented then), and lost contact with the Soviet Naval Command.
Fearful of surfacing or reducing depth and being targeted by a depth charge attack the submarine remained motionless. However it had already been detected by the USN even as the crisis had been resolved. The USN began detonating practice depth charges some distance from the submarine's location in order to force it to surface. Fearing they were under attack the submarine's political officer called for the release of the nuclear mine on instant detonation which would have destroyed the carrier fleet on the surface, and probably also destroyed the submarine. The submarine captain overruled the directive knowing that the depth charges fired by the USN were being deliberately thrown at a distance to enable the submarine to surface.
The Soviet submarine did surface, saving itself and the USN flotilla, and also saving the world from a nuclear war.
In an India Pakistan scenario a Pakistani submarine would not be so gracious. It is not known if Pakistan has such "nuclear mines" but the Chinese would certainly have looked at the technology in the late sixties when their navy was still in the early stages of development.

 

[Readerdefence]

A lot of american equipmtent is overrated. American patriot defence system failed to intercept yemeni houthi missiles. Yugoslav army unit (The 3rd Brigade of the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade) shot down the "stealth" F-117A by using soviet S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The DF-21D/DF-26 poses a real threat to american aircraft carriers in the South China sea:

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

Also if Pakistan gets the DF-21D/DF-26 its primary target would be India's aircraft carriers.

Hi bro don’t get me wrong PN or PA not getting this kind of stuff there is something called restricted supply of certain arms/ ammunitions
otherwise USA can sell same thing for Indians to counter China
but to some extent you can say or wish that China helps out pakistan in terms of know how if there is any to get something near to or related to this kind of arsenal
thank you

 

[kris]

AEGIS have intercepted MACH 20+ stuff actually.

Any source for this?

 

[Iñigo]

Aegis ... SM-3 ... is a mid-curse anti-balistic > 100 km Altitude interceptor

Chinese hypersonic Missile flies toward target below 100 km altitude and then falls vertically

the trajectory of these missiles is not ballistic but variants of what we can call "Qian Xuesen" trajectory

Qian Xuesen - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Kompromat]

Apna banao.

 

[ozranger]

Aegis ... SM-3 ... is a mid-curse anti-balistic > 100 km Altitude interceptor

Chinese hypersonic Missile flies toward target below 100 km altitude and then falls vertically

the trajectory of these missiles is not ballistic but variants of what we can call "Qian Xuesen" trajectory

Qian Xuesen - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No current mid-course interceptors, neither America's nor China's, can intercept hypersonic missiles flying sub-orbits yet. Future mid-course interceptors with substantial capability to intercept hypersonic missiles might be required to maneuver with both rocket power controls, as the air on sub-orbits is very thin, and aerodynamic controls, as rocket power controls are very energy inefficient while the interceptors climb in thick air. Developers of such interceptors have to overcome a lot of technical obstacles.

Terminal interceptors like SM-6 theoretically has tiny chances to hit warheads of hypersonic missiles assuming those warheads don't maneuver. In reality all such warheads have terminal maneuver.

 

[ayodhyapati]

This just a hypothetical scenario

"The Dong Feng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), which can accurately strike aircraft carrier 1,500 kilometres away. An improved version, the Dong Feng-26, targets aircraft carriers 3,000-4,000 kilometres away". 'The DF-21 system has a warhead capable of Mach 10. With speeds of up to Mach 10 during the terminal phase, the DF-21D is the fastest-ever MRBM. It is capable of outperforming current US missile defence systems such as the AEGIS ballistic missile defence system".

If Pakistan wants to develop its own intermediate-range ballistic missile with a 1500/3000-4000 km range equivalent to China's DF-21D/DF-26 it may cost as much as 1 billion USD to develop. In other words it would be waste of money. The better option would be to buy the DF-21D/DF-26 directly from China. China's DF-21D/DF-26 missile may cost $25 million apiece.

"If Pakistan Navy inducts the DF-21D it could upset India’s clear naval advantage over Pakistan". If the DF-21D is installed at any point along the Makran coast of Pakistan between Pasni and Karachi it will be able to hit any of the Indian Navy aircraft carriers. In fact it could strike any naval target in the Persian gulf. DF-21D will dominate the whole of the Arabian Sea including the littorals of India on one flank and that of Middle east/Gulf on the other. An Indian aircraft carrier with MiG-29K and Tejas on board will not be able to blockade Pakistan if the carrier has to stay out of range of the missile. Which out be impossible considering the DF-21D 1500-km range. The DF-21D could prevent Indian or any other countries warships from approaching coastal targets like Karachi or Gwadar.

Here is the range of the DF-21D/DF-26 if installed on Pasni naval base:

DF-21D 1500-km range

View attachment 731513

DF-26 3000-km minimum range

View attachment 731514

DF-26 4000-km maximum range

View attachment 731516

hypothetical is ok .

 

[The Accountant]

AEGIS have intercepted MACH 20+ stuff actually.

At what stage ? Most of the interception takes place before terminal stage or mid course which is easier job specially in intercontinental range missile due to availability of time.

Medium range and short range ballistic missiles can be far too dangerous due to less reaction time and slightly manuverable warhead in comparison to traditional missiles.

This just a hypothetical scenario

"The Dong Feng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), which can accurately strike aircraft carrier 1,500 kilometres away. An improved version, the Dong Feng-26, targets aircraft carriers 3,000-4,000 kilometres away". 'The DF-21 system has a warhead capable of Mach 10. With speeds of up to Mach 10 during the terminal phase, the DF-21D is the fastest-ever MRBM. It is capable of outperforming current US missile defence systems such as the AEGIS ballistic missile defence system".

If Pakistan wants to develop its own intermediate-range ballistic missile with a 1500/3000-4000 km range equivalent to China's DF-21D/DF-26 it may cost as much as 1 billion USD to develop. In other words it would be waste of money. The better option would be to buy the DF-21D/DF-26 directly from China. China's DF-21D/DF-26 missile may cost $25 million apiece.

"If Pakistan Navy inducts the DF-21D it could upset India’s clear naval advantage over Pakistan". If the DF-21D is installed at any point along the Makran coast of Pakistan between Pasni and Karachi it will be able to hit any of the Indian Navy aircraft carriers. In fact it could strike any naval target in the Persian gulf. DF-21D will dominate the whole of the Arabian Sea including the littorals of India on one flank and that of Middle east/Gulf on the other. An Indian aircraft carrier with MiG-29K and Tejas on board will not be able to blockade Pakistan if the carrier has to stay out of range of the missile. Which out be impossible considering the DF-21D 1500-km range. The DF-21D could prevent Indian or any other countries warships from approaching coastal targets like Karachi or Gwadar.

Here is the range of the DF-21D/DF-26 if installed on Pasni naval base:

DF-21D 1500-km range

View attachment 731513

DF-26 3000-km minimum range

View attachment 731514

DF-26 4000-km maximum range

View attachment 731516

Any missile greater than 300 km range is not saleable as per MTCR.

Our best bet is to work on converting short range missile systems to secure our SEZ with these anti ship ballistic missiles making our defences further strong with much lower investments.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

2-3 sqdrn's of JH7A's equipped with the right kind of AShM can do that job very well.

 

[Zarvan]

This just a hypothetical scenario

"The Dong Feng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), which can accurately strike aircraft carrier 1,500 kilometres away. An improved version, the Dong Feng-26, targets aircraft carriers 3,000-4,000 kilometres away". 'The DF-21 system has a warhead capable of Mach 10. With speeds of up to Mach 10 during the terminal phase, the DF-21D is the fastest-ever MRBM. It is capable of outperforming current US missile defence systems such as the AEGIS ballistic missile defence system".

If Pakistan wants to develop its own intermediate-range ballistic missile with a 1500/3000-4000 km range equivalent to China's DF-21D/DF-26 it may cost as much as 1 billion USD to develop. In other words it would be waste of money. The better option would be to buy the DF-21D/DF-26 directly from China. China's DF-21D/DF-26 missile may cost $25 million apiece.

"If Pakistan Navy inducts the DF-21D it could upset India’s clear naval advantage over Pakistan". If the DF-21D is installed at any point along the Makran coast of Pakistan between Pasni and Karachi it will be able to hit any of the Indian Navy aircraft carriers. In fact it could strike any naval target in the Persian gulf. DF-21D will dominate the whole of the Arabian Sea including the littorals of India on one flank and that of Middle east/Gulf on the other. An Indian aircraft carrier with MiG-29K and Tejas on board will not be able to blockade Pakistan if the carrier has to stay out of range of the missile. Which out be impossible considering the DF-21D 1500-km range. The DF-21D could prevent Indian or any other countries warships from approaching coastal targets like Karachi or Gwadar.

Here is the range of the DF-21D/DF-26 if installed on Pasni naval base:

DF-21D 1500-km range

View attachment 731513

DF-26 3000-km minimum range

View attachment 731514

DF-26 4000-km maximum range

View attachment 731516

Instead of going for DF 21 D. Pakistan should develop its own and not just Anti Ship Ballistic Missiles but also ICBM and SLBM.

 

[GumNaam]

It can't be "exported" to Pakistan due to the int'l missile export regime limitations on the range of the missile. Pakistan will have to make its own. Having said that...simply a matter of making the Shaheen 3s capable of accurately striking slow moving ships, a small radar or IR sensors will have to be installed in it.

 

[LeGenD]

A lot of american equipmtent is overrated. American patriot defence system failed to intercept yemeni houthi missiles. Yugoslav army unit (The 3rd Brigade of the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade) shot down the "stealth" F-117A by using soviet S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The DF-21D/DF-26 poses a real threat to american aircraft carriers in the South China sea:

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

Please check my response in appropriate thread.

Also if Pakistan gets the DF-21D/DF-26 its primary target would be India's aircraft carriers.

Understandable.

I am all for PN considering and/or exploring new methods of power projection including ASBM option(s). PN hinted development of the P282 ASBM for instance.

How PN plans to counter INS Kolkata class destroyers, would be a valid concern and consideration because these destroyers are very likely to be used to provide cover to an Indian Aircraft Carrier in hostile environments. ASBM would make it much safer and convenient for PN to snipe at an Indian Aircraft Carrier from considerable distance(s). ASBM would provide greater reach than aircraft in this capacity.

Any source for this?

Please check my response in appropriate thread.

At what stage ? Most of the interception takes place before terminal stage or mid course which is easier job specially in intercontinental range missile due to availability of time.

Medium range and short range ballistic missiles can be far too dangerous due to less reaction time and slightly manuverable warhead in comparison to traditional missiles.

Please check my response in appropriate thread.