Detecting Stealth Aircraft with X-band or S-band radar

[Martian2]

Let's turn conventional wisdom upside down. Most people believe the F-22 and B-2 cannot be detected by X-band or S-band radar. I will try to change your mind.

The stealth coatings on the F-22 and B-2 are designed to absorb X-band and upper S-band radar waves. Additionally, the shape of the F-22 and B-2 are designed to deflect the incoming X-band and S-band radar waves away from the emitter.

Let's turn the strength of the F-22 and B-2 into a weakness.

The SR-71 flew at 85,000 feet. The F-22 has a service ceiling of 65,000 feet. The B-2 has a service ceiling of 50,000 feet.

Thus, China only needs to build unmanned drones that fly at 85,000 feet with an X-band or S-band radar pointed downwards. A radar source is like a flashlight. The F-22 and B-2 have the widest profile when seen from above.

With a fleet of high-altitude X-band or S-band radar drones looking downwards, the absence of a radar return would be immediately obvious. Over the East and South China Seas, the X-band or S-band radar return should uniformly look like the sea surface. When you see a big blotch of no radar return, you have found a stealth aircraft.

Obviously, the drones will be accompanied by a squadron of J-20 stealth fighters to engage the adversary stealth fighter.

China should devote the majority of its high-flying drones to cover the expected flight paths, such as Kadena or Guam to China. Additional high-flying drones will be needed to cover the side lobes of the expected flight paths.

The detection method can also be applied to flights over land. Simply map the X-band and S-band radar returns over land. On an actual patrol, subtract the X-band or S-band radar return from the data stored in the map. If a consistent flying anomaly appears with the expected size then you've found an F-22 or B-2.

Gameplan

a. Build high-flying stealth drones.
b. Equip drones with powerful engines to allow supersonic escape.
c. Use irregular pattern illumination to avoid detection. The pattern of snapshot X-band or S-band radar illumination should be determined by computer to ensure no enemy fighter in a particular volume of airspace over a period of time (after factoring in F-22 supercruise ability).
d. High-flying stealth drones are to be accompanied by J-20 stealth fighters.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Type 055 will have the X/S dual-band capability.

The future US warships with the similar capability will be the DDG-1000 and the Arleigh Burke Flight III/IV.

 

[tsarbomba]

There is a portable X-band radar in service with the USA since a long time. Search for sea based X-band on google

 

[Martian2]

Adding laser altimeter (and target illuminator) to stealth drone

"This undated photo shows the laser altimeter carried with Chang'e II, China's second unmanned lunar probe. China launched Chang'e II on Oct. 1, 2010."

An F-22 would leave a void in the X-band and S-band radar reflection from an overhead stealth drone. The size of the void, measured in arc-seconds, would reveal the distance of the F-22 below the stealth drone.

As a backup and to refine the coordinates of the F-22, a laser altimeter should be installed on the stealth drone.

An additional benefit is the laser illumination could be used by a laser-guided air-to-air missile to home-in on the F-22. A missile can be programmed to fly higher than an F-22 and look for the bright laser spot on the F-22 top-side.

 

[Martian2]

Whack-a-mole

What would an operationalized fleet of high-flying stealth drones look like?

Let's imagine 12 stealth drones accompanied by 12 Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters.

Assume a stealth drone has detected an F-22 and has painted its top-side with a laser. As the F-22 turns to engage the stealth drone, the stealth drone would shut down its radar and laser. As the original stealth drone performs evasive maneuvers, another stealth drone in the squadron takes over and paints the F-22 with a laser from far away.

In this tactical warfare, the F-22 will be chasing a highly-maneuverable stealth drone with questionable success. However, another stealth drone in the squadron will take over the duty of painting the F-22 for a Chengdu J-20 PL-12 air-to-air missile.

 

[Martian2]

Armed stealth drone and the Kamikaze option

One of the key principles of warfare is to control the high ground. Flying at 85,000 feet, an armed stealth drone can take advantage of the commanding height.

Upon detection of an F-22, the armed stealth drone can fire both of its internally-carried air-to-air missiles.

Also, there is the Kamikaze option. If both missiles fail to hit the F-22 (e.g. 9G maneuverability limit for manned aircraft), the more-maneuverable armed drone (at 10G or higher) can intercept in a direct crash.

In conclusion, a fleet of high-flying armed stealth drones would be a nightmare for any adversary.

[Note: I use the F-22 as an example, because it is the gold standard in stealth fighters. Obviously, the aforementioned tactics should work on all stealth fighters.]

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Armed stealth drone and the Kamikaze option

One of the key principles of warfare is to control the high ground. Flying at 85,000 feet, an armed stealth drone can take advantage of the commanding height.

Upon detection of an F-22, the armed stealth drone can fire both of its internally-carried air-to-air missiles.

Also, there is the Kamikaze option. If both missiles fail to hit the F-22 (e.g. 9G maneuverability limit for manned aircraft), the more-maneuverable armed drone (at 10G or higher) can intercept in a direct crash.

In conclusion, a fleet of high-flying armed stealth drones would be a nightmare for any adversary.

[Note: I use the F-22 as an example, because it is the gold standard in stealth fighters. Obviously, the aforementioned tactics should work on all stealth fighters.]

Hey Martian!
What is the status of China's laser weapons programme?

 

[Martian2]

Hey Martian!
What is the status of China's laser weapons programme?

NRO Confirms Chinese Laser Test Illuminated U.S. Spacecraft - SpaceNews.com
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China unveils anti-terror laser cannon that can shoot drones more than mile away | Daily Mail Online
"China unveils anti-terror laser cannon that can shoot drones more than a mile away with '100% accuracy'

• The new laser system can hit a drone travelling at up to 110mph at 1,600 feet
• The weapon can intercept the threat within five seconds of identifying it
• The system can be vehicle mounted to protect large public gatherings
• Chinese officials fear drones could be used in a terrorist attacks

By DARREN BOYLE FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 03:47 EST, 4 November 2014 | UPDATED: 07:24 EST, 4 November 2014"
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China unveils laser drone defence system | World news | The Guardian
"China unveils laser drone defence system
Laser has 1.2-mile range and can bring down small low-flying aircraft within five seconds of locating target

Agence France-Presse in Beijing
Monday 3 November 2014 04.32 EST

China has developed a highly accurate laser weapon system that can shoot down light drones at low altitude, state media reported.

The machine has a 1.2-mile range and can bring down “various small aircraft” within five seconds of locating its target, the official Xinhua news agency said, citing a statement by the China Academy of Engineering Physics (CAEP), one of the developers.

Xinhua showed pictures of large metal boxes in camouflage paint and the wreckage of a small drone, some of it burning.

The laser system is expected to “play a key role in ensuring security during major events in urban areas” and address concerns on unlicensed mapping activities, according to Xinhua. It is effective up to a maximum altitude of 500 metres and against aircraft flying at up to 50 metres per second (112mph), Xinhua said.

It cited Yi Jinsong, a manager with China Jiuyuan Hi-Tech Equipment Corp, as saying that small-scale, unmanned drones were relatively cheap and easy to use, making them a likely choice for terrorists.

'Intercepting such drones is usually the work of snipers and helicopters, but their success rate is not as high and mistakes with accuracy can result in unwanted damage,' he said.

The system, which can be installed on vehicles, shot down more than 30 drones in a recent test with a '100% success rate' said the CAEP statement.

The academy is developing similar laser security systems with greater power and range, Xinhua said in its report on Sunday.

China typically deploys tight security for domestic political meetings, international conferences and sports events, looking to prevent public protests over issues such as illegal land seizures and corruption as well as any threats to the participants."

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

NRO Confirms Chinese Laser Test Illuminated U.S. Spacecraft - SpaceNews.com
----------

China unveils anti-terror laser cannon that can shoot drones more than mile away | Daily Mail Online
"China unveils anti-terror laser cannon that can shoot drones more than a mile away with '100% accuracy'

• The new laser system can hit a drone travelling at up to 110mph at 1,600 feet
• The weapon can intercept the threat within five seconds of identifying it
• The system can be vehicle mounted to protect large public gatherings
• Chinese officials fear drones could be used in a terrorist attacks

By DARREN BOYLE FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 03:47 EST, 4 November 2014 | UPDATED: 07:24 EST, 4 November 2014"
----------

China unveils laser drone defence system | World news | The Guardian
"China unveils laser drone defence system
Laser has 1.2-mile range and can bring down small low-flying aircraft within five seconds of locating target

Agence France-Presse in Beijing
Monday 3 November 2014 04.32 EST

China has developed a highly accurate laser weapon system that can shoot down light drones at low altitude, state media reported.

The machine has a 1.2-mile range and can bring down “various small aircraft” within five seconds of locating its target, the official Xinhua news agency said, citing a statement by the China Academy of Engineering Physics (CAEP), one of the developers.

Xinhua showed pictures of large metal boxes in camouflage paint and the wreckage of a small drone, some of it burning.

The laser system is expected to “play a key role in ensuring security during major events in urban areas” and address concerns on unlicensed mapping activities, according to Xinhua. It is effective up to a maximum altitude of 500 metres and against aircraft flying at up to 50 metres per second (112mph), Xinhua said.

It cited Yi Jinsong, a manager with China Jiuyuan Hi-Tech Equipment Corp, as saying that small-scale, unmanned drones were relatively cheap and easy to use, making them a likely choice for terrorists.

'Intercepting such drones is usually the work of snipers and helicopters, but their success rate is not as high and mistakes with accuracy can result in unwanted damage,' he said.

The system, which can be installed on vehicles, shot down more than 30 drones in a recent test with a '100% success rate' said the CAEP statement.

The academy is developing similar laser security systems with greater power and range, Xinhua said in its report on Sunday.

China typically deploys tight security for domestic political meetings, international conferences and sports events, looking to prevent public protests over issues such as illegal land seizures and corruption as well as any threats to the participants."

I knew about these reports.
I'm talking about laser weapons. These are very small range weapons.
I even read in a report recently a Chinese scientist proclaiming that they are facing troubles creating large capacity capacitors etc to store and power lasers.

 

[Martian2]

I knew about these reports.
I'm talking about laser weapons. These are very small range weapons.
I even read in a report recently a Chinese scientist proclaiming that they are facing troubles creating large capacity capacitors etc to store and power lasers.

China’s Space Weapons Threaten U.S. Satellites | Washington Free Beacon

"'Additionally, we see things that … have also been put in orbit that also is of concern, as well as things on land that are also being used to threaten our assets, such as lasers, such as jamming capability and what have you that threatens communications, GPS,' the four-star admiral said.

China’s test of an antisatellite (ASAT) missile in July was disguised by the Chinese government as a ballistic missile defense test. In the past several years, China also conducted space tests using miniature satellites, some with retractable arms capable of grabbing or crushing satellites. Little is known of China’s ground-based laser and jamming ASAT capabilities.

The comments were the most explicit to date by a senior military officer expressing concerns about China’s buildup of space weapons that are designed to inflict damage on the U.S. military in a time of crisis or war."