Details Of Single national curriculum released

[Taimoor Khan]

When I was studying in Pakistan, back in the day, in the biology classes we were taught Charles Darwin "theory of evolution", as how can came from Apes. Growing up and learning more about the creation of mankind, as described by Holy Quran, we are in effect, in our over enthusiasm, teaching our kids a blatant shirk, a Satanist agenda.


Also, the education must be geared and update every year, towards the practical skill sets which the students can employ in their professional lives.

 

[313ghazi]

Tks for this i have a broader view of the subject now, Although i do have reservations on how they're going to complement Science and research with compulsory religious studies, If certain aspects contradict each other

This is reason why Religious and other studies not over arch another, World over

The crux of the matter here here is that the curricula will be developed according to strict religious view point, This is all good for religious schools like Madras's but not for a national education system

One of my genuine annoyances at this whole process is how the draft version is being drip fed into social media as a reaction to paid anti state propagandists like Hoodbhoy. Why they don't just release the whole draft and let people have a proper conversation is beyond me. If you have a genuine interest follow @MariamChughtai on twitter who is one of they people involved in crafting the curriculum. She also did a couple of live debates with Hoodbhoy where he resorted to name calling when his arguements were exposed for what they are.

I don't know where you were educated (NZ or India) but i was educated in the UK and we were taught religion. The subject was part of the humanities curriculum and we were taught about all religions. It's entirely possible to be a Muslim and scientist - you have to take an academic approach to it.

From my perspective, Religion is the word of the Creator, it is His lesson to us on how we live our lives. Science is a study of his creation. it's very simple.

 

[313ghazi]

When I was studying in Pakistan, back in the day, in the biology classes we were taught Charles Darwin "theory of evolution", as how can came from Apes. Growing up and learning more about the creation of mankind, as described by Holy Quran, we are in effect, in our over enthusiasm, teaching our kids a blatant shirk, a Satanist agenda.


Also, the education must be geared and update every year, towards the practical skill sets which the students can employ in their professional lives.

The word Theory is the important bit there. It is a theory. According to latest studies we share 90% of our DNA with cats. 60% of our DNA with bananas. Humans have 99.9% the same DNA. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-cattle-mice-same-genetics-code-a8292111.html

Does that mean we evolved from cats and bananas too? Maybe just the gymnasts evolved from cats? lol

It's the job of your science teacher to teach you theories there is scientific evidence towards. If you think the theory is incorrect or not telling the whole picture, you and anyone else are free to study science to disprove it, or shed more light on it. That's how science works. Rather than throwing the word shirk around and shutting down debate (not aiming that at you personally) our job as Muslims to continue to study creation, to see how it relates to the word of God. We're not going to do that by closing our minds to certain possibilities.

 

[Verve]

From my perspective, Religion is the word of the Creator, it is His lesson to us on how we live our lives. Science is a study of his creation. it's very simple.

Indians and their buddies don't get that at all.

 

[Verve]

Why they don't just release the whole draft and let people have a proper conversation is beyond me.

You want public to have debate with who? All the specialists and stake holders were involved.

In UK there are no public debates. Education and then parliamentary committees usually. General public engagement is non-existent to say.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

The word Theory is the important bit there. It is a theory. According to latest studies we share 90% of our DNA with cats. 60% of our DNA with bananas. Humans have 99.9% the same DNA. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-cattle-mice-same-genetics-code-a8292111.html

Does that mean we evolved from cats and bananas too? Maybe just the gymnasts evolved from cats? lol

It's the job of your science teacher to teach you theories there is scientific evidence towards. If you think the theory is incorrect or not telling the whole picture, you and anyone else are free to study science to disprove it, or shed more light on it. That's how science works. Rather than throwing the word shirk around and shutting down debate (not aiming that at you personally) our job as Muslims to continue to study creation, to see how it relates to the word of God. We're not going to do that by closing our minds to certain possibilities.

I am not sure what is your argument here.

Are you proposing to teach our kids an "unproven" and an "180 degree" opposite , so called theory to what Quran tell us and make it part of our curriculum? On what basis?

Specially when your creator, with no ambiguity is telling the whole of mankind as to how they were created. There was no so called evolution with a tadpole jumping out of the pond, developing limbs, started crawling , beoming ape and from ape, "transformed" into Human. Are you tell us the Baba Adam (AS) was the first "recogniseable" Human in this long path of evolution from Apes?

First human was created right up in the heavens, while the so called "evolution" was taking place on the Earth. Angels prostated while Satan refused, you know that fact right? How do you reconcile all this with Darwin theory of evoltution ?

Botton line is, this theory was introduced to negate the existence of Satan and its hatred for mankind. You believe in this theory, be default, you negate the existence of Satan and his fall from the grace.

 

[313ghazi]

You want public to have debate with who? All the specialists and stake holders were involved.

In UK there are no public debates. Education and then parliamentary committees usually. General public engagement is non-existent to say.

A debate amongst the general public. There are plenty of educated people, people like us who can form our own opinons and express them if we had all the facts. Why are idiots like Hoodbhoy allowed to bleat on and on unchallenged effectively letting them control the narrative.

I am not sure what is your argument here.

Are you proposing to teach our kids an "unproven" and an "180 degree" opposite , so called theory to what Quran tell us and make it part of our curriculum? On what basis?

Specially when your creator, with no ambiguity is telling the whole of mankind as to how they were created. There was no so called evolution with a tadpole jumping out of the pond, developing limbs, started crawling , beoming ape and from ape, "transformed" into Human. Are you tell us the Baba Adam (AS) was the first "recogniseable" Human in this long path of evolution from Apes?

First human was created right up in the heavens, while the so called "evolution" was taking place on the Earth. Angels prostated while Satan refused, you know that fact right? How do you reconcile all this with Darwin theory of evoltution ?

Botton line is, this theory was introduced to negate the existence of Satan and its hatred for mankind. You believe in this theory, be default, you negate the existence of Satan and his fall from the grace.

Can you create another thread for this, i feel we might derail this one.

I'm suggesting exactly what you said. If Darwin is wrong, prove it. He's provided scientific evidence for his theory, provide scientific evidence to counter his theory. Also my arguement is also purely theoretical - i'm not an expert on Darwin. On my part I understand what the Quran says about our creation, hence we can't have evolved from monkeys, but if Darwin suggested we did and provided some evidence towards it, why is it nearly 150 years after his death we haven't conclusively debunked it using scientific research? The URL i shared is part of that arguement, but it's made by non muslim scientists. Apparently we share 90% dna with a cat. Did we evolve from cats? If not, then why suggest we evolved from monkeys?

My point is this, if your iman is shocked by scientific discovery - bury your head in the sand. There will be a day that dajjal will give life and take life - only the faithful will recognise him as not God, but as Dajjal. As Muslims our iman stays rock solid and our aqal, our senses work overtime to understand creation and often rebute or revise theories.

 

[Verve]

A debate amongst the general public. There are plenty of educated people, people like us who can form our own opinons and express them if we had all the facts. Why are idiots like Hoodbhoy allowed to bleat on and on unchallenged effectively letting them control the narrative.

Government decides when that debate happens, and that is usually after the policy has been formulated in draft form and that draft has been agreed with all stakeholders. That's exactly what has happened.

As for Hoodbhoy, he has Dawn hence he has a voice for English readers of Dawn and social media. He is a nobody to the majority of Pakistanis, and majority probably haven't even heard of him! So government doesn't need to worry about irrelevant people in grand scheme of things but they did confront him on social media and he stands exposed.

why is it nearly 150 years after his death we haven't conclusively debunked it using scientific research?

Western scientists themselves have debunked him. But the education system in West is not in the control of scientists, the narrative builders want him to be prominent for their evil agenda hence he is school books still.

 

[VCheng]

As a response to anti national Propaganda the education minister has released images of the new Single education policy being developed.

Is there any mention of a strategy or plan to include the 22 million (or thereabouts) children who are currently not in any school at all?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

A debate amongst the general public. There are plenty of educated people, people like us who can form our own opinons and express them if we had all the facts. Why are idiots like Hoodbhoy allowed to bleat on and on unchallenged effectively letting them control the narrative.


Can you create another thread for this, i feel we might derail this one.

I'm suggesting exactly what you said. If Darwin is wrong, prove it. He's provided scientific evidence for his theory, provide scientific evidence to counter his theory. Also my arguement is also purely theoretical - i'm not an expert on Darwin. On my part I understand what the Quran says about our creation, hence we can't have evolved from monkeys, but if Darwin suggested we did and provided some evidence towards it, why is it nearly 150 years after his death we haven't conclusively debunked it using scientific research? The URL i shared is part of that arguement, but it's made by non muslim scientists. Apparently we share 90% dna with a cat. Did we evolve from cats? If not, then why suggest we evolved from monkeys?

My point is this, if your iman is shocked by scientific discovery - bury your head in the sand. There will be a day that dajjal will give life and take life - only the faithful will recognise him as not God, but as Dajjal. As Muslims our iman stays rock solid and our aqal, our senses work overtime to understand creation and often rebute or revise theories.

This BS about scientific proofs regarding things which cannot be proven under our knowledge and laws which govern us, a three dimensional being. Can you prove, by science and its methods, the existence of God? Is there any formula like a+b = God, a being which is above the laws of science or what not?

Remember this, we humans are locked into our three dimensional realm and the laws that govern it. Allah challanged both Humans and Jinns in Surah Rehman to break these laws. Creation of Adam (AS) the first human , an event that happened up in the heavens. Beyond our capacity and capability to understand the dynamics of that time and space/realm.

We reject all the self concocted ideas and theories by so called scientists which goes against what the creator himself has mentioned in his own word in Holy Quran.


And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

[Allah] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

[Allah] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

[Satan] said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."

[Allah] said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."

[Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.

Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

[Allah] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
.
.
.
.
.
..



Good luck in proving above by the "scientific means" and massage the egos of the scientific communities or the so called Allamas as we say. Its not scientific proofs but common sense which needs to be exercise here. Without going to much into detail, one this is very clear, very basic fundamental fact, that first human was created up in heavens while the evolution, if there was such thing, was happening right here down in the planet Earth. Unless science can proof that there was a ape taken up in heaven and allowed to transform in to "recognisable" Human, that we refer to Baba Adam (AS). Are we effectively telling our kids that Baba Adam (AS) came out of the womb of female Ape, if the evolution theory is followed in its letter and spirit?

And if "Islamic republic of Pakistan" aka "second riyasat-e-Madina" is teaching its kids that we came from ape , at early age of their development and intellectual capacity, we are indulging in a great sin as a state. That are many hidden agendas in propagating this BS, as I already mentioned, the rejection of existence of Satan and its fall from grace. Otherwise, how would you know the satan and his minions are there, if we reject what Quran tell us and follow the Darwin theory of evolution?



We dont need to prove anything to anyone. There are no ifs and buts. Turkey has already thrown this garbage out of its curriculum. About time we do the same.

 

[SecularNationalist]

I think the concept of a national curriculum is a outdated one in this era. Kids these days with internet and smartphones are learning all sorts of positive and negative things and getting information which we cannot control.

 

[313ghazi]

Is there any mention of a strategy or plan to include the 22 million (or thereabouts) children who are currently not in any school at all?

I don't know. They haven't released the full curriculum yet. Also I expect that's a policy decision not a curriculum based one.

 

[Shehr Abbasi]

10 years of Arabic should be a requirement for every student in Pakistan.

No reductions or substitutions, whatsoever.

Urdu + English can serve as medium language in schools.

 

[313ghazi]

This BS about scientific proofs regarding things which cannot be proven under our knowledge and laws which govern us, a three dimensional being. Can you prove, by science and its methods, the existence of God? Is there any formula like a+b = God, a being which is above the laws of science or what not?

Remember this, we humans are locked into our three dimensional realm and the laws that govern it. Allah challanged both Humans and Jinns in Surah Rehman to break these laws. Creation of Adam (AS) the first human , an event that happened up in the heavens. Beyond our capacity and capability to understand the dynamics of that time and space/realm.

We reject all the self concocted ideas and theories by so called scientists which goes against what the creator himself has mentioned in his own word in Holy Quran.


And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

[Allah] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

[Allah] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.

[Satan] said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."

[Allah] said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."

[Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.

Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

[Allah] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."

And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."

But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
.
.
.
.
.
..



Good luck in proving above by the "scientific means" and massage the egos of the scientific communities or the so called Allamas as we say. Its not scientific proofs but common sense which needs to be exercise here. Without going to much into detail, one this is very clear, very basic fundamental fact, that first human was created up in heavens while the evolution, if there was such thing, was happening right here down in the planet Earth. Unless science can proof that there was a ape taken up in heaven and allowed to transform in to "recognisable" Human, that we refer to Baba Adam (AS). Are we effectively telling our kids that Baba Adam (AS) came out of the womb of female Ape, if the evolution theory is followed in its letter and spirit?

And if "Islamic republic of Pakistan" aka "second riyasat-e-Madina" is teaching its kids that we came from ape , at early age of their development and intellectual capacity, we are indulging in a great sin as a state. That are many hidden agendas in propagating this BS, as I already mentioned, the rejection of existence of Satan and its fall from grace. Otherwise, how would you know the satan and his minions are there, if we reject what Quran tell us and follow the Darwin theory of evolution?



We dont need to prove anything to anyone. There are no ifs and buts. Turkey has already thrown this garbage out of its curriculum. About time we do the same.

For centuries alchemy was considered a science, -people trying to make gold. turned out to some of it was bs.

Science is based on logic, fact and reason. Everything we know today was an impossibility at some point. This narrow mindedness you demonstrate is why we are so behind. As @Verve said - many in modern science have disproven the idea we come from apes. If they could do it why can't or why won't Muslims? Because of narrow minded blinkered approach to science.

Every time science discovers something which was mentioned in the Quran Muslims jump up and down "oh look it says this in the Quran". Why can't Muslims try to prove those things? Because of the narrow mindedness on display.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

For centuries alchemy was considered a science, -people trying to make gold. turned out to some of it was bs.

Science is based on logic, fact and reason. Everything we know today was an impossibility at some point. This narrow mindedness you demonstrate is why we are so behind. As @Verve said - many in modern science have disproven the idea we come from apes. If they could do it why can't or why won't Muslims? Because of narrow minded blinkered approach to science.

Every time science discovers something which was mentioned in the Quran Muslims jump up and down "oh look it says this in the Quran". Why can't Muslims try to prove those things? Because of the narrow mindedness on display.

Stop bullshiting and stopping engaging just for the sake of it.

I am not against science, when did I say that? My argument is against this BS so called "theory" which btw science itself has never proven to be a fact, worse, taken as word of god, taught in our schools , where clearly, the "actual word of god", the holy Quran says otherwise. You are trying to act smart and in this , actually negating what is mentioned in Quran, just simply becuase you think science cannot be wrong. Sort your Iman out dude, dont be stubborn in your beliefs. "We hear and we obey". We heard clearly from the creator himself and there is no need of any mortal to question that. Your beloved Charles Darwin was a freemason, try to untangle that mystery!