Democracy Would Confuse Chinese People’s Minds, Says Political Journal

[Destro]

The reason China is more successful than India is because we have no democracy.

In India, their leaders only care about winning elections even if it means screwing up the economy and country.

In China, our leaders care about economic development because if they screw up, people protest and cause social unrest.

This makes Chinese leaders free from any elections and give them the ability to concentrate on economy.

A stronger China means a more legitimate CPC, thus the CPC don't have any democratic processes to worry about.

This is why in the early stages of a country's development, no democracy is the best form of political system to have.

It is due to democracy that India can never catch China. Both China and India have corrupt politicians, but our politicians are subject to executions not elections if they don't perform so they are forced to perform or face severe punishment.

China needs to have no democracy until we are a high income country. After that, then we must slowly transition towards more democratic rights.

Democracy greatly slows down progress as politicians do what poor people want to win elections rather than do the correct thing.

This is why China will always be atleast one step ahead of India.

 

[gambit]

Well, people's approval = open votes for you, then there really isn't much I can do and considering that you are willing to gloss over US army killing veterans that have fought for their country, I don't think there is much I can do period.

When you absurdly conflate the two, there is no hope for you. Period.

Was Xi Jinping an able administrator with his past accomplishments? Seems to be. Was he vetted by the people? No, he was not. Was his philosophies and proposed policies examined by the people? No, they were not.

Do YOU like this style of governance? What if the current government tells YOU that you are too stupid and ignorant to participate in the selection of the next person whose philosophies and proposed policies would affect you, your family, neighbors, and friends, for at least the next two generations, because that is how long it will take to remove bad policies and remedy their negative consequences?

If you like that, then what are you doing living in the US?

 

[JayAtl]

When you absurdly conflate the two, there is no hope for you. Period.

Was Xi Jinping an able administrator with his past accomplishments? Seems to be. Was he vetted by the people? No, he was not. Was his philosophies and proposed policies examined by the people? No, they were not.

Do YOU like this style of governance? What if the current government tells YOU that you are too stupid and ignorant to participate in the selection of the next person whose philosophies and proposed policies would affect you, your family, neighbors, and friends, for at least the next two generations, because that is how long it will take to remove bad policies and remedy their negative consequences?

If you like that, then what are you doing living in the US?

Forget vetted, China banned any kind of vetting on Xi Jinping. A simple report that talked about his net worth became illegal, banned and censored in china. Even now if a citizens asks for transparency on any government officials- they get thrown in Jail.

 

[gambit]

Forget vetted, China banned any kind of vetting on Xi Jinping. A simple report that talked about his net worth became illegal, banned and censored in china. Even now if a citizens asks for transparency on any government officials- they get thrown in Jail.

Because the contradiction between the Party's professed loyalty to Marxism and his personal wealth would confuse the Chinese people. Has to do with that 'high Chinese IQ' thingy.

 

[tranquilium]

When you absurdly conflate the two, there is no hope for you. Period.

Was Xi Jinping an able administrator with his past accomplishments? Seems to be. Was he vetted by the people? No, he was not. Was his philosophies and proposed policies examined by the people? No, they were not.

Do YOU like this style of governance? What if the current government tells YOU that you are too stupid and ignorant to participate in the selection of the next person whose philosophies and proposed policies would affect you, your family, neighbors, and friends, for at least the next two generations, because that is how long it will take to remove bad policies and remedy their negative consequences?

If you like that, then what are you doing living in the US?

Eh, like I said, if you insist that people's approval is a piece of paper in your hand instead of actual feedback like living indicators, education, employment rate, there isn't much I can do to convince you.

You seem to have the strange idea that it takes that long to remove bad administrators. Though it is not surprising, considering that under your system, all you can do about incompetence is "we will vote him out of office in the next election" instead "fix the problem now". Patience is a virtue, but I am not convinced it is wholly beneficial in this case.

As for why I am in US right now, I am studying for my Ph.D and upon completion, will be heading back to China. Though looking through the electrical engineering department, I would have to say this sure doesn't feel like an US institute since it is mainly consist of Chinese and Indians.

 

[Nan Yang]

When you absurdly conflate the two, there is no hope for you. Period.

Was Xi Jinping an able administrator with his past accomplishments? Seems to be. Was he vetted by the people? No, he was not. Was his philosophies and proposed policies examined by the people? No, they were not.

Do YOU like this style of governance? What if the current government tells YOU that you are too stupid and ignorant to participate in the selection of the next person whose philosophies and proposed policies would affect you, your family, neighbors, and friends, for at least the next two generations, because that is how long it will take to remove bad policies and remedy their negative consequences?

If you like that, then what are you doing living in the US?

I think we already made it quite clear. If only you open up your mind.
The West talks too much about the PROCESS. But you should not ignore the results.

Do you vote your boss ? Who decide the best person for any job ?

You may be competent to find the best person for your job because you know your job.
But do you have the competency to decide the best person for a job that you have never done before and not in your area of expertise ?

In China's system, leaders and officials are evaluated and selected by their peers, not by the unqualified and uninformed 'man in the street'.

This system ensures competence at the top, because these people are evaluated on the basis of real credentials rather than public popularity or TV charisma.

The system is generally well understood within China, and it meshes well with Chinese culture and tradition as well as conforming to the Chinese psyche in their Confucian overview and their desire for social order and harmony.

The Western world understands this dimly, if at all, and inevitably forms incorrect and often absurd conclusions about China and its government - especially the mindless references to China being a 'dictatorship'.

There is no partisan in-fighting. Unlike the West, China's system looks for consensus rather than conflict.

 

[chhota bheem]

I think we already made it quite clear. If only you open up your mind.
The West talks too much about the PROCESS. But you should not ignore the results.

Do you vote your boss ? Who decide the best person for any job ?

You may be competent to find the best person for your job because you know your job.
But do you have the competency to decide the best person for a job that you have never done before and not in your area of expertise ?

In China's system, leaders and officials are evaluated and selected by their peers, not by the unqualified and uninformed 'man in the street'.

This system ensures competence at the top, because these people are evaluated on the basis of real credentials rather than public popularity or TV charisma.

The system is generally well understood within China, and it meshes well with Chinese culture and tradition as well as conforming to the Chinese psyche in their Confucian overview and their desire for social order and harmony.

The Western world understands this dimly, if at all, and inevitably forms incorrect and often absurd conclusions about China and its government - especially the mindless references to China being a 'dictatorship'.

There is no partisan in-fighting. Unlike the West, China's system looks for consensus rather than conflict.

How can you look for consensus when you dont have a say in it.....

 

[Nan Yang]

How can you look for consensus when you dont have a say in it.....

You would not understand if the answer in right in front of you. And it is. Arguing with simple minded Indian poster like you makes me want to vomit blood !

 

[JayAtl]

I think we already made it quite clear. If only you open up your mind.
The West talks too much about the PROCESS. But you should not ignore the results.

Do you vote your boss ? Who decide the best person for any job ?

You may be competent to find the best person for your job because you know your job.
But do you have the competency to decide the best person for a job that you have never done before and not in your area of expertise ?

In China's system, leaders and officials are evaluated and selected by their peers, not by the unqualified and uninformed 'man in the street'.

This system ensures competence at the top, because these people are evaluated on the basis of real credentials rather than public popularity or TV charisma.

The system is generally well understood within China, and it meshes well with Chinese culture and tradition as well as conforming to the Chinese psyche in their Confucian overview and their desire for social order and harmony.

The Western world understands this dimly, if at all, and inevitably forms incorrect and often absurd conclusions about China and its government - especially the mindless references to China being a 'dictatorship'.

There is no partisan in-fighting. Unlike the West, China's system looks for consensus rather than conflict.

What you chinese understand dimly is that yes you don't vote for your boss, but your boss does not determine the laws for 1 billion plus people. more importantly your boss is not about you, rather about the company and bottom line yen he generates . His mandate is not see you as an employee succeed over the companies interest. while a politician's mandate is to their people... their business interest is solely/ should be about the people.

The scale and proportion of the influence of your job affects, and whom is affected- should determine representation.

Our constitution promotes debate not partisan fighting. What is partisan to you is principle to the other.

 

[chhota bheem]

You would not understand if the answer in right in front of you. And it is. Arguing with simple minded Indian poster like you makes me want to vomit blood !

See you cant even try to have a consensus on a this perticular issue with a single poster and you are talking about consensus as a whole. Now every one can see its infront of you.and it is.

 

[gambit]

Eh, like I said, if you insist that people's approval is a piece of paper in your hand instead of actual feedback like living indicators, education, employment rate, there isn't much I can do to convince you.

As for why I am in US right now, I am studying for my Ph.D and upon completion, will be heading back to China. Though looking through the electrical engineering department, I would have to say this sure doesn't feel like an US institute since it is mainly consist of Chinese and Indians.

That is funny...And ironic.

Assume that you will get your PhD from US, what is wrong with a PhD from China? Never mind that. It was a rhetorical question. Anyway...That degree will set you apart from most of humanity in terms of education. Anyone who has one have the right to be proud of himself. And yet, here you are defending a system where a mid level party hack who probably have never been outside of China, less education than you, but can tell you to fook off because you have a degree is biology/physics/metallurgy/astronomy and no experience in politics. In short, you see nothing wrong with a political animal, most likely lower intelligence and education than you, telling you that you are too stupid to understand government.

If you hire an electrician to wire up your house, most likely you will not micromanage him in his duties. But that does not mean you, a PhD-ed person, are without investigative skills, and least of all without a gut feeling, to monitor progress and to be alert if something seems and feels to be amiss. But the difference between this electrician and a president is that the electrician make decisions that affects only one house at a time while the president make decisions that affects the entire country, friends, allies, and enemies.

But you see nothing wrong with you having no say in installing this president. And you object to me calling the Chinese people docile?

You seem to have the strange idea that it takes that long to remove bad administrators. Though it is not surprising, considering that under your system, all you can do about incompetence is "we will vote him out of office in the next election" instead "fix the problem now". Patience is a virtue, but I am not convinced it is wholly beneficial in this case.

No, there is a process call the 'recall'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election

A recall election (also called a recall referendum or representative recall) is a procedure by which voters can remove an elected official from office through a direct vote before his or her term has ended. Recalls, which are initiated when sufficient voters sign a petition, have a history dating back to the ancient Athenian democracy[1] and are a feature of several contemporary constitutions.

The reason Americans are hesitant to exercise their recall power is because we are willing to give the person a chance to make corrections prior to the end of his term. But the option have always been there and recently...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/u...cedes-defeat-in-recall-over-gun-law.html?_r=0

COLORADO SPRINGS — Two Colorado Democrats who provided crucial support for a package of state gun laws were voted out of office on Tuesday in special elections seen as a test of whether swing-state voters would accept gun restrictions after mass shootings at a Colorado movie theater and a Connecticut elementary school.

In the US, it is institutionally difficult to make radical changes. The Founders believes that an efficient government to do good can also equally efficient to do evil. If the people decided that a change is too radical and too inappropriate, they will exercise their power and remove a politician from office before his term is up. Richard Nixon sensed that the American people would not accept him for what he did regarding the Watergate scandal so he resigned.

What you also failed to understand is that removing a politician does not 'fix' the problem. It removed the cause of problems created by bad policies and executions, but it does not 'fix' the problems. A law, even a bad one, cannot be ignored. It must be obeyed until it is repealed by another law. Removing the politician, either by recall or by not reelecting him, is only the first step in repairing damages created by bad laws and policies.

Anyway...I hope you do get your PhD and I hope you enjoy being called 'stupid' when you returned to China. But then again, what choices do you have?

 

[sincity]

China keep doing what you do, China should choose your own course of action and never let no one dictate how you should run your government.

 

[tranquilium]

That is funny...And ironic.

Assume that you will get your PhD from US, what is wrong with a PhD from China? Never mind that. It was a rhetorical question. Anyway...That degree will set you apart from most of humanity in terms of education. Anyone who has one have the right to be proud of himself. And yet, here you are defending a system where a mid level party hack who probably have never been outside of China, less education than you, but can tell you to fook off because you have a degree is biology/physics/metallurgy/astronomy and no experience in politics. In short, you see nothing wrong with a political animal, most likely lower intelligence and education than you, telling you that you are too stupid to understand government.

If you hire an electrician to wire up your house, most likely you will not micromanage him in his duties. But that does not mean you, a PhD-ed person, are without investigative skills, and least of all without a gut feeling, to monitor progress and to be alert if something seems and feels to be amiss. But the difference between this electrician and a president is that the electrician make decisions that affects only one house at a time while the president make decisions that affects the entire country, friends, allies, and enemies.

But you see nothing wrong with you having no say in installing this president. And you object to me calling the Chinese people docile?


No, there is a process call the 'recall'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_election

The reason Americans are hesitant to exercise their recall power is because we are willing to give the person a chance to make corrections prior to the end of his term. But the option have always been there and recently...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/11/u...cedes-defeat-in-recall-over-gun-law.html?_r=0

In the US, it is institutionally difficult to make radical changes. The Founders believes that an efficient government to do good can also equally efficient to do evil. If the people decided that a change is too radical and too inappropriate, they will exercise their power and remove a politician from office before his term is up. Richard Nixon sensed that the American people would not accept him for what he did regarding the Watergate scandal so he resigned.

What you also failed to understand is that removing a politician does not 'fix' the problem. It removed the cause of problems created by bad policies and executions, but it does not 'fix' the problems. A law, even a bad one, cannot be ignored. It must be obeyed until it is repealed by another law. Removing the politician, either by recall or by not reelecting him, is only the first step in repairing damages created by bad laws and policies.

Anyway...I hope you do get your PhD and I hope you enjoy being called 'stupid' when you returned to China. But then again, what choices do you have?

Am I to assume that you have experience in politic or at least in management of others? Of course not, because anyone who is remotely capable in these area know that in order to judge the efficiency of the system, you need to look at the results and if you are to pass judgment on something, you better well come up with a better reasoning than blatantly disregarding evidences, similar to your glossing over the fact that US army fired on its veterans.

Also you do realize the socialist parties are all over the world, especially in Europe where the first three international movements are born? True, there is no exact system that copies everything China did, because every country is an unique entities, it will foolish to try to impose one system onto everyone else.

By docile, you are implying an unwilling to change the system if it proves to be not working, despite the fact that China went through many political/economical reform and changes in the past 60 years in order to better adapt to a changing environment. China is doing well today precisely because we are not afraid to change. So what change is coming beside the same old "we will elect someone else" to fix that 17 trillion USD of debt? What change is coming so ivy league school entrance depends on personal competence rather than social connections? What change is coming to fix US education so its PISA standing isn't in the 20s and 30s for science and math? What change is coming so that every science and engineering department isn't filled with foreigner students? And you have the gall to call Chinese people docile.

The last paragraph, really, is the fundamental of your problem. Chinese believes results and you believe processes, hence why Chinese will get results they wants and you may only get the process.

 

[Nan Yang]

Just like to share two idioms.

It does not matter if the cat is black or white. If it catches the rat, it is a good cat.
- Deng Xiao Ping

And

In this universe, there is only one constant. That constant is CHANGE.
- I Ching the book of changes


Be pragmatic and keep changing.