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Featured Delhi Muslims fear they will never see justice for religious riot atrocities

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Why should BJP have Muslim MP's? Why community based representation needed in a secular India?

I agree. Therefore you too should stop supporting the Hindutvadi group RSS and all its branches including its electoral arm the BJP.

Have any laws or policies of GoI discriminated against Muslims of this country?

That is because the Constitution of India had contributions by progressive people like Ambedkar who himself had faced discrimination by the background majoritarian culture all his life and so was more empathetic to the sufferings of people.

OTOH there are regressive people like Yogi Adityanath who want to discard the current Constitution and bring the vile Manusmriti in its place.

Regarding Disha Ravi Joseph, you are naive.

Disha is not a Christian. You are simply trying to introduce a non-existent religious angle to her.

@magra had told you about this.

Read about sedition law, it is not about sedition against country but against the ruling dispensation. It applies to anyone who tries to bring about demise of ruling dispensation through propaganda. GOI is absolutely in it's right to invoke sedition.

As it is, India and similarly politically arranged countries like USA, Pakistan, Britain, France etc are not true democracies, but you are saying that anyone in India who doesn't agree with the current government's policies and acts should be punished. So you want India to turn into a full-fledged authoritarian theocracy ? Why did the BJP dissent when Manmohan Singh was Prime Minister ?

Also how can one ignore partition based on religion, when our mother land was torn apart by separatist ideology of one community.

Let me tell you that the Two Nation Theory was the invention of the Hindutvadis. Below is what Shashi Tharoor said :
Speaking at the session 'Shashi on Shashi' with Micheal Dwyer on Day 2 of the Jaipur Literature Festival (JLF), Mr Tharoor claimed that the Hindutva movement started by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar categorically rejected the Constitution.

He said that for Savarkar, a Hindu was one for whom India was his fatherland and holy land. Muslims and Christians were not considered in this.

"Savarkar, Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar and Deen Dyal Upadhay rejected the constitution and in fact agreed with the Muslims that religion should determine nationhood. In the historical sense, the first advocate of the two-nation theory was actually Savarkar, who as the head of the Hindu Mahasabha called upon India to recognise Hindus and Muslims as part of two separate nations three years before the Pakistan Muslim League passed the Pakistan Resolution in Lahore in 1940," he said.

Mr Tharoor further said that according to them, the Constitution was full of imported ideas written in the wrong language - English.

"Another flaw they pointed out was that it assumes that the nation of India is a territory and it's (constitution) written for all the people on the territory. Nation is not a territory but its people and the people of India are only Hindus," he said.


Hindutva is about people and culture of this land. It includes all religions.

So why did ISRO very recently send a Gita into space, other than a photo of Modi ? Why not also a Bible, a Quran and a Guru Granth, and a photo of Shaheed Bhagat Singh, if not a photo of Tipu Sultan ?

But If your religion is going to say that you have more affinity to a distant land than your own and have more sympathy towards your religious compatriots of other lands than security of your own country, then you are absolutely anti national.

Then why do right-wing Hindus living in America and Britain hold affinity to a distant country - India ? These particular Hindus must be declared anti-nationals by America and Britain.

Many Indian muslims and muslims everywhere are seeing through political nature of islam and slowly getting turned away from Islam

Islam was always a political ideology. Islam is not just another way of prayer, festival, ritual and dress code.

Islam brought progressive social, economic and political ideas 1400 years ago, a few things from which the West adopted around a 100 years and from the West, India did.

Read this thread of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that secured her economic future in case of divorce. Please also read the discussion on that thread.

Do not confuse the regressive beliefs of some Muslims with what Islam actually is.
 
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For now, I can only hope that what you are saying does not end up happening.
If civil war has to happen in the end, it will be disastrous for the entire sub-continent and not just India. If Pakistan enters the conflict, it will suffer too obviously. Unless you dont care and will rather want to die.


The writing is on the wall
Indian Muslims will indeed suffer but the options are running out

You are right all south Asia will suffer


But ask yourself how will you change the minds of the bakhts

They may think their vitriolic nationalism will save India but it's the poison that will push it to the edge


As a Pakistani nationalist let me tell you, we have ZERO fear of a hindutva extremist belligerent hindutva India we will arm and prepare ourselves for that enemy

The threat to us was a united India, a concept of India for all, all its people, faiths united under state that protects and represents all

The threat used to be Indian Muslims saying "look, Partition was a mistake look how successful and happy we are as Indians"

That dosent happen anymore
 
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Islam was always a political ideology. Islam is not just another way of prayer, festival, ritual and dress code.

Islam brought progressive social, economic and political ideas 1400 years ago, a few things from which the West adopted around a 100 years and from the West.

Read this thread of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that secured her economic future in case of divorce. Please also read the discussion on that thread.

Do not confuse the regressive beliefs of some Muslims with what Islam actually is.

thats exactly whats wrong with Islam its political, its made for political and military expansion of arabian tribes in modern era its akin to a political party like CCP but still following doctrine of 1400 years ago against CCP's adaptation and no longer compatible with current era thats why
more and more free thinking muslims who get safety from aggressive backlash are leaving islam in West
 
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nothing for me to be scared of. you are just one of hundreds of obsessed indians trolls here.
We are cool then. I dont mean to scare you either.

now you can enjoy the demographic timebomb in India when muslims become majority in a few more states in the coming decades. then let the balkanisation of india begin.
With increasing education, birth rates are falling for all Indians including Indian muslims.
Even though muslims may achieve majority in some of the smaller states, they will still need India for development.
We will not let country's borders be re-defined. When we have steadfastly held onto Kashmir for 70 years, we can do so for other states too.

not our fault we live next to be a country with imperialistic ambitions who want lands of people that dont want their conquerors.


eventually war will come to them. the demographic shifts in the North East and West Bengal are going to make them fight. you see the Bangladeshis are starting to see that little by little, especially those that are at PDF are well aware of this.
Pakistan initiated the attack each time and you are calling us imperialist. Kashmir belongs to India legally and morally (through Hari Singh and Sheikh Abdullah respectively).

India and Bangladesh will be in a tight economic embrace by then. BD will have no incentive to engage in a conflict with us then. Meaning their economy will suffer immensely if they fought us, and thus their own people will encourage peace.

as per the agreement we should have had more. our border should have extended at few more kilometers east and gotten a bigger share of Punjab. we were fucked over by India from day 1, and then they messed with Kashmir. India was hell bent on making sure Pakistan failed as a state from day 1. Jinnah said he wanted Pakistan and India to live as friendly neighbours, but not if we have to tolerate their injustice.



you are a fool to believe that. you saw how the war on terror destroyed our economy. when the indians muslims rise up your economy will go through similar issues. for us, things are stabilising in our politics and economics. our internal situation hasnt looked better in decades.
You already got more land compared to your population, and you think you deserved more? Forget it.
Jinnah should not have hid his illness. He got the country partitioned and then died so soon. His followers messed up Pakistan after him. Had he been alive longer, he could have worked to make friendship with India as he desired.

Even before war on terror, Zia involved you in the fighting against Soviets. Your real downfall started from there.
Indian muslims rising up mean that they will also contribute heavily in the economy. Our economy would shine brighter with their contribution.
Your CPEC debt situation is going to get much worse. Your fellow Pakistani posters are saying so.
we wont enter the conflict. we dont need to. today many wars are won/lost on media image. no country with a civil war looks good, and eventually the majority has to make accommodations to the minority.
Thank you for leaving us alone then.
Yes, we will make accomodations wherever suitable. We will handle our own issues. Thank you.
 
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I agree. Therefore you too should stop supporting the Hindutvadi group RSS and all its branches including its electoral arm the BJP.
First of all, let me say that I am honored by you replying to me. I have followed your posts for sometime and you are one of the most sensible Indians.
I believe the answer is to analyze each MLA and MP candidate in a constituency and elect the one with the best credentials (good education, no criminal record, good agenda etc) irrespective of the party they belong to. If a parliament of 545 seats, we are able to elect good candidates on 500 seats, then they are more likely to choose a good PM and cabinet ministers.
When people vote for party (or party leader) without even looking at the candidate, these parties get a chance to either sell out tickets to the highest bidder or stand criminals.
 
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The writing is on the wall
Indian Muslims will indeed suffer but the options are running out

You are right all south Asia will suffer


But ask yourself how will you change the minds of the bakhts

They may think their vitriolic nationalism will save India but it's the poison that will push it to the edge


As a Pakistani nationalist let me tell you, we have ZERO fear of a hindutva extremist belligerent hindutva India we will arm and prepare ourselves for that enemy

The threat to us was a united India, a concept of India for all, all its people, faiths united under state that protects and represents all

The threat used to be Indian Muslims saying "look, Partition was a mistake look how successful and happy we are as Indians"

That dosent happen anymore
No comments as of now. We hope to reverse this pseudo-nationalist trend and come back a United India again. But this time not to fight you but win against you with a charm offensive.
 
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Where there is religion, there is violence.
You must be a philosopher or something! Deep!

**insert wiki list with the bloodiest wars fought in the last 500 years**
 
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You must be a philosopher or something! Deep!

**insert wiki list with the bloodiest wars fought in the last 500 years**

Keeping it short and simple. Hinduism is a religion, and so is Islam, and their followers are the reason for the violence in Delhi, who are flying out religious slogans and targeting based on religion.

A lot of religion, isn't it.
 
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thats exactly whats wrong with Islam its political

It is in fact good that Islam is a political ideology instead of a prayer and ritual bound system with socio-economic classification.

its made for political and military expansion of arabian tribes

In India and Africa Islam was spread by the sufis. In other places by merchants. Repressed people adopted it. So it was not always by the sword.

more and more free thinking muslims who get safety from aggressive backlash are living islam in West

Actually free thinking Muslims adopted modern socialism / communism early on in their lands ( please read this thread of mine ) but it was the Western governments who supported the regressive among the Muslims there, gave them political refuge in the West and later created regime-change in progressive Muslim-majority lands and installed the regressives power. Example, Afghanistan and Libya. Syria is under attempt for regime-change.

Finally I will quote Jamal Abdul Nasser who speaks about the West-boot-licking anti-women attitude of the Muslim Brotherhood gang :
“The parties were dissolved, and we clashed with the Muslim Brotherhood party, during the four years, in 1953 and in 1954 … We were embroiled in dispute, they declared war against us, and they shot at me on October, 26, 1954 in Alexandria … Terrorist members in the Muslim Brotherhood party were arrested, and they were judged,” Nasser said during the statement.

“In 1954, we were negotiating with the British [forces occupying Egypt at the time] for the evacuation [deal]. At the same time, the Muslim Brotherhood members were holding secret meetings with the members of the British Embassy. They were telling them: we will be able to seize power,” Nasser said.

The late President said that the Muslim Brotherhood party has never held the patriotic feelings which Egyptians have held, adding: “The Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood at the time when we were fighting in the Canal was asked: what is your stance on the war in the canal. He said: We are a wide (international) call. Perhaps the war in the canal comes for your benefit here in Egypt, while we think it is beneficial to fight in another country.”

“This is the call of the Muslim Brotherhood. All of [their] speech is full of deception and [exploitation of] religion,” Nasser stated.

Similar to what happened following 2011 revolution when people decided to reconcile with the Muslim Brotherhood, perhaps because the youth who led the January revolution were not familiar with the MB policies, Abdel Nasser said he reconciled with the MB members, explaining that the reconciliation however, failed to turn them into good citizens.

“In 1953, we actually and honestly wanted to cooperate with the Muslim Brotherhood supposing that [this will make its members] take the right path. I met with the General guide of the Muslim Brotherhood. He issued [some] demands,” Nasser said.

The late President said that the MB guide asked him to force Egyptian women to wear Islamic veil and to shut cinemas and theaters.

Nasser said: “He told me that you as a ruler is responsible [for veiling women]. I told him, you have a daughter in the Faculty of Medicine who is unveiled. Why didn’t you force her to wear a veil? If you are not able to make your daughter wear a veil, [how] would you want me to [force] 10 million women to wear veils in the country?”

“Then, [he told me] that women must not [go to] work. I think that when a woman works, we are protecting her [this way]. Why do [some women] go astray? They do so because of the need and poverty. We all know such stories of women whose sons or mothers are sick and they did not find money, so they were forced to sell their bodies. Therefore, work is a protection for women, while preventing women from work [works] against her. We actually liberate women by [allowing] them to work and cooperate with the man,” Nasser added.

“Last year, in 1964, before the constitution, I released them all from the prison, and we issued a law to return every one of them to his work with the same salary and promotion prospects. In 1965, we seized the new conspiracy of the Muslim Brotherhood; secret system, and assassination and destruction plans,” the late President said.

Nasser said that Muslim Brotherhood group says that all the [Egyptian] people are disbelievers, and that the MB members are the only Muslims. According to Nasser, The MB members say they refuse people representation, and the Parliament. He added that the MB group considers the kings and presidents of the Arab and other countries as disbelievers, and that the MB members are the only Muslim people.

“They were arrested, and we also arrested all old MB organizations … It is not about the assassination of Gamal Abdel Nasser. If Abdel Nasser was assassinated, a thousand people similar to Gamal Abdel Nasser would emerge, but we can never accept that [our] people be assassinated,” Nasser stated.

“We started to view [their cases]; all people who participated in these secret organizations will be referred to judgment. All dangerous people who we released in 1964 and had basically represented heads or dangerous members in the secret organizations will be [imprisoned]. After that, the rest of [the MB group members] will be released. We will give them another chance. If somebody of them [commits similar illegal actions] we will arrest him and we will never get him out of prison.”

“It is enough. We cannot take a gamble on the rewards we achieved during the 13 past years,” Nasser stated, adding that the MB group uses Islam to deceive people and grab them to join the party.

Concerning the MB, “they are neither Muslims, nor brothers. They are malevolent … Their leaders outside [the country] cooperated with Baghdad Pact, colonial countries, all our enemies, and Arab reactionary, and proved with clear evidence that the MB party or movement is only a movement that works for the benefit of colonialism and reactionary, by which it is funded.
MB author and thinker Sayed Kotb was executed in 1966 after being convicted of planning to assassinate Nasser who ruled Egypt for about 14 years until his death in 1970.


its akin to a political party like CCP but still following doctrine of 1400 years ago against CCP's adaptation and no longer compatible with current era thats why

Well I would like Muslims to adopt Modern Communism because it to me is Islam's natural successor

First of all, let me say that I am honored by you replying to me. I have followed your posts for sometime and you are one of the most sensible Indians.

Thank you for the honor you bestow upon me. :tup:

I believe the answer is to analyze each MLA and MP candidate in a constituency and elect the one with the best credentials (good education, no criminal record, good agenda etc) irrespective of the party they belong to. If a parliament of 545 seats, we are able to elect good candidates on 500 seats, then they are more likely to choose a good PM and cabinet ministers.

When people vote for party (or party leader) without even looking at the candidate, these parties get a chance to either sell out tickets to the highest bidder or stand criminals.

You have corrected described the complicated political system followed by India ( as also other such "democracies" ). All this parties, the drama of five-yearly-elections, non-strategic goals, the demagogy etc. it's been almost 74 years since India's Independence yet India has so many ills which have not be eradicated by the country's political, economic and social systems.

What we should instead have is Direct Democracy guided by leftist thought. Like Libya before 2011. Or what Hugo Chavez adapted that system for his Venezuela. Even Elon Musk speaks for Direct Democracy for near-future Mars settlements.

Here is what Gaddafi described the wrongs of systems like India, Pakistan and USA :
THE INSTRUMENT OF GOVERNMENT

The instrument of government is the prime political problem confronting human communities (The problem of the instrument of government entails questions of the following kind. What form should the exercise of authority assume? How ought societies to organize themselves politically in the modern world?)

Even conflict within the family is often the result of the failure to resolve this problem of authority. It has clearly become more serious with the emergence of modern societies.

People today face this persistent question in new and pressing ways. Communities are exposed to the risks of uncertainty, and suffer the grave consequences of wrong answers. Yet none has succeeded in answering it conclusively and democratically. THE GREEN BOOKpresents the ultimate solution to the problem of the proper instrument of government.

All political systems in the world today are a product of the struggle for power between alternative instruments of government. This struggle may be peaceful or armed, as is evidenced among classes, sects, tribes, parties or individuals. The outcome is always the victory of a particular governing structure - be it that of an individual, group, party or class - and the defeat of the people; the defeat of genuine democracy.

Political struggle that results in the victory of a candidate with, for example, 51 per cent of the votes leads to a dictatorial governing body in the guise of a false democracy, since 49 per cent of the electorate is ruled by an instrument of government they did not vote for, but which has been imposed upon them. Such is dictatorship. Besides, this political conflict may produce a governing body that represents only a minority. For when votes are distributed among several candidates, though one polls more than any other, the sum of the votes received by those who received fewer votes might well constitute an overwhelming majority. However, the candidate with fewer votes wins and his success is regarded as legitimate and democratic! In actual fact, dictatorship is established under the cover of false democracy. This is the reality of the political systems prevailing in the world today. They are dictatorial systems and it is evident that they falsify genuine democracy.

PARLIAMENTS

Parliaments are the backbone of that conventional democracy prevailing in the world today. Parliament is a misrepresentation of the people, and parliamentary systems are a false solution to the problem of democracy. A parliament is originally founded to represent the people, but this in itself is undemocratic as democracy means the authority of the people and not an authority acting on their behalf. The mere existence of a parliament means the absence of the people. True democracy exists only through the direct participation of the people, and not through the activity of their representatives. Parliaments have been a legal barrier between the people and the exercise of authority, excluding the masses from meaningful politics and monopolizing sovereignty in their place. People are left with only a facade of democracy, manifested in long queues to cast their election ballots.

To lay bare the character of parliaments, one has to examine their origin. They are either elected from constituencies, a party, or a coalition of parties, or are appointed. But all of these procedures are undemocratic, for dividing the population into constituencies means that one member of parliament represents thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions of people, depending on the size of the population. It also means that a member keeps few popular organizational links with the electors since he, like other members, is considered a representative of the whole people. This is what the prevailing traditional democracy requires. The masses are completely isolated from the representative and he, in turn, is totally removed from them. Immediately after winning the electors' votes the representative takes over the people's sovereignty and acts on their behalf. The prevailing traditional democracy endows the member of parliament with a sacredness and immunity which are denied to the rest of the people. Parliaments, therefore, have become a means of plundering and usurping the authority of the people. It has thus become the right of the people to struggle, through popular revolution, to destroy such instruments - the so-called parliamentary assemblies which usurp democracy and sovereignty, and which stifle the will of the people. The masses have the right to proclaim reverberantly the new principle: no representation in lieu of the people.

If parliament is formed from one party as a result of its winning an election, it becomes a parliament of the winning party and not of the people. It represents the party and not the people, and the executive power of the parliament becomes that of the victorious party and not of the people. The same is true of the parliament of proportional representation in which each party holds a number of seats proportional to their success in the popular vote. The members of the parliament represent their respective parties and not the people, and the power established by such a coalition is the power of the combined parties and not that of the people. Under such systems, the people are the victims whose votes are vied for by exploitative competing factions who dupe the people into political circuses that are outwardly noisy and frantic, but inwardly powerless and irrelevant. Alternatively, the people are seduced into standing in long, apathetic, silent queues to cast their ballots in the same way that they throw waste paper into dustbins. This is the traditional democracy prevalent in the whole world, whether it is represented by a one-party, two-party, multiparty or non-party system. Thus it is clear that representation is a fraud.

Moreover, since the system of elected parliaments is based on propaganda to win votes, it is a demagogic system in the real sense of the word. Votes can be bought and falsified. Poor people are unable to compete in the election campaigns, and the result is that only the rich get elected. Assemblies constituted by appointment or hereditary succession do not fall under any form of democracy.

Philosophers, thinkers, and writers advocated the theory of representative parliaments at a time when peoples were unconsciously herded like sheep by kings, sultans and conquerors. The ultimate aspiration of the people of those times was to have someone to represent them before such rulers. When even this aspiration was rejected, people waged bitter and protracted struggle to attain this goal.

After the successful establishment of the age of the republics and the beginning of the era of the masses, it is unthinkable that democracy should mean the electing of only a few representatives to act on behalf of great masses. This is an obsolete structure. Authority must be in the hands of all of the people.

The most tyrannical dictatorships the world has known have existed under the aegis of parliaments.

THE PARTY

The party is a contemporary form of dictatorship. It is the modern instrument of dictatorial government. The party is the rule of a part over the whole. As a party is not an individual, it creates a superficial democracy by establishing assemblies, committees, and propaganda through its members. The party is not a democratic instrument because it is composed only of those people who have common interests, a common perception or a shared culture; or those who belong to the same region or share the same belief. They form a party to achieve their ends, impose their will, or extend the dominion of their beliefs, values, and interests to the society as a whole. A party's aim is to achieve power under the pretext of carrying out its program. Democratically, none of these parties should govern a whole people who constitute a diversity of interests, ideas, temperaments, regions and beliefs. The party is a dictatorial instrument of government that enables those with common outlooks or interests to rule the people as a whole. Within the community, the party represents a minority.

The purpose of forming a party is to create an instrument to rule the people, i.e., to rule over non-members of the party. The party is, fundamentally, based on an arbitrary authoritarian concept - the domination of the members of the party over the rest of the people. The party presupposes that its accession to power is the way to attain its ends, and assumes that its objectives are also those of the people. This is the theory justifying party dictatorship, and is the basis of any dictatorship. No matter how many parties exist, the theory remains valid.

The existence of many parties intensifies the struggle for power, and this results in the neglect of any achievements for the people and of any socially beneficial plans. Such actions are presented as a justification to undermine the position of the ruling party so that an opposing party can replace it. The parties very seldom resort to arms in their struggle but, rather, denounce and denigrate the actions of each other. This is a battle which is inevitably waged at the expense of the higher, vital interests of the society. Some, if not all, of those higher interests will fall prey to the struggle for power between instruments of government, for the destruction of those interests supports the opposition in their argument against the ruling party or parties. In order to rule, the opposition party has to defeat the existing instrument of government.

To do so, the opposition must minimize the government's achievements and cast doubt on its plans, even though those plans may be beneficial to the society. Consequently, the interests and programs of the society become the victims of the parties' struggle for power. Such struggle is, therefore, politically, socially, and economically destructive to the society, despite the fact that it creates political activity.

Thus, the struggle results in the victory of another instrument of government; the fall of one party, and the rise of another. It is, in fact, a defeat for the people, i.e., a defeat for democracy. Furthermore, parties can be bribed and corrupted either from inside or outside.

Originally, the party is formed ostensibly to represent the people. Subsequently, the party leadership becomes representative of the membership, and the leader represents the party elite. It becomes clear that this partisan game is a deceitful farce based on a false form of democracy. It has a selfish authoritarian character based on maneuvres, intrigues and political games. This confirms the fact that the party system is a modern instrument of dictatorship. The party system is an outright, unconvincing dictatorship, one which the world has not yet surpassed. It is, in fact, the dictatorship of the modern age.

The parliament of the winning party is indeed a parliament of the party, for the executive power formed by this parliament is the power of the party over the people. Party power, which is supposedly for the good of the whole people, is actually the arch-enemy of a fraction of the people, namely, the opposition party or parties and their supporters. The opposition is, therefore, not a popular check on the ruling party but, rather, is itself opportunistically seeking to replace the ruling party. According to modern democracy, the legitimate check on the ruling party is the parliament, the majority of whose members are from that ruling party. That is to say, control is in the hands of the ruling party, and power is in the hands of the controlling party. Thus the deception, falseness and invalidity of the political theories dominant in the world today become obvious. From these emerge contemporary conventional democracy.

"The party represents a segment of the people, but the sovereignty of the people is indivisible."

"The party allegedly governs on behalf of the people, but in reality the true principle of democracy is based upon the notion that there can be no representation in lieu of the people."

The party system is the modern equivalent of the tribal or sectarian system. A society governed by one party is similar to one which is governed by one tribe or one sect. The party, as shown, represents the perception of a certain group of people, or the interests of one group in society, or one belief, or one region. Such a party is a minority compared with the whole people, just as the tribe and the sect are. The minority has narrow, common sectarian interests and beliefs, from which a common outlook is formed. Only the blood-relationship distinguishes a tribe from a party, and, indeed, a tribe might also be the basis for the foundation of a party. There is no difference between party struggle and tribal or sectarian struggles for power. Just as tribal and sectarian rule is politically unacceptable and inappropriate, likewise the rule under a party system. Both follow the same path and lead to the same end.The negative and destructive effects of the tribal or sectarian struggle on society is identical to the negative and destructive effects of the party struggle.

CLASS

The political class system is the same as a party, tribal, or sectarian system since a class dominates society in the same way that a party, tribe or sect would. Classes, like parties, sects or tribes, are groups of people within society who share common interests. Common interests arise from the existence of a group of people bound together by blood-relationship, belief, culture, locality or standard of living. Classes, parties, sects and tribes emerge because blood-relationship, social rank, economic interest, standard of living, belief, culture and locality create a common outlook to achieve a common end. Thus, social structures, in the form of classes, parties, tribes or sects, emerge. These eventually develop into political entities directed toward the realization of the goals of that group. In all cases, the people are neither the class, the party, the tribe, nor the sect, for these are no more than a segment of the people and constitute a minority. If a class, a party, a tribe, or a sect dominates a society, then the dominant system becomes a dictatorship. However, a class or a tribal coalition is preferable to a party coalition since societies originally consisted of tribal communities. One seldom finds a group of people who do not belong to a tribe, and all people belong to a specific class. But no party or parties embrace all of the people, and therefore the party or party coalition represents a minority compared to the masses outside their membership. Under genuine democracy, there can be no justification for any one class to subdue other classes for its interests. Similarly, no party, tribe or sect can crush others for their own interests.

To allow such actions abandons the logic of democracy and justifies resort to the use of force. Such policies of suppression are dictatorial because they are not in the interest of the whole society, which consists of more than one class, tribe or sect, or the members of one party. There is no justification for such actions, though the dictatorial argument is that society actually consists of numerous segments, one of which must undertake the liquidation of others in order to remain solely in power. This exercise is not, accordingly, in the interests of the whole society but, rather, in the interests of a specific class, tribe, sect, party, or those who claim to speak for the society. Such an act is basically aimed at the member of the society who does not belong to the party, class, tribe or sect which carries out the liquidation.

A society torn apart by party feud is similar to one which is torn apart by tribal or sectarian conflicts.

A party that is formed in the name of a class inevitably becomes a substitute for that class and continues in the process of spontaneous transformation until it becomes hostile to the class that it replaces.

Any class which inherits a society also inherits its characteristics. If the working class, for example, subdues all other classes of a particular society, it then becomes its only heir and forms its material and social base. The heir acquires the traits of those from whom it inherits, though this may not be evident all at once. With the passage of time, characteristics of the other eliminated classes will emerge within the ranks of the working class itself. The members of the new society will assume the attitudes and perspectives appropriate to their newly evolved characteristics. Thus, the working class will develop a separate society possessing all of the contradictions of the old society. In the first stage, the material standard and importance of the members become unequal. Thereafter, groups emerge which automatically become classes that are the same as the classes that were eliminated. Thus, the struggle for domination of the society begins again. Each group of people, each faction, and each new class will all vie to become the instrument of government.

Being social in nature, the material base of any society is changeable. The instrument of government of this material base may be sustained for some time, but it will eventual become obsolete as new material and social standards evolve to form a new material base. Any society which undergoes a class conflict may at one time have been a one-class society but, through evolution, inevitably becomes a multi-class society.

The class that expropriates and acquires the possession of others to maintain power for itself will soon find that, through evolution, it will be itself subject to change as though it were the society as a whole.

In summary, all attempts at unifying the material base of a society in order to solve the problem of government, or at putting an end to the struggle in favour of a party, class, sect or tribe have failed. All endeavours aimed at appeasing the masses through the election of representatives or through parliaments have equally failed. To continue such practices would be a waste of time and a mockery of the people.

PLEBISCITES

Plebiscites are a fraud against democracy. Those who vote "yes" or "no" do not, in fact, express their free will but, rather, are silenced by the modern conception of democracy as they are not allowed to say more than "yes" or "no". Such a system is oppressive and tyrannical. Those who vote "no" should express their reasons and why they did not say "yes", and those who say "yes" should verify such agreement and why they did not vote "no". Both should state their wishes and be able to justify their "yes" or "no" vote.

What then, is the path to be taken by humanity in order to conclusively rid itself of the elements of dictatorship and tyranny?

The intricate problem in the case of democracy is reflected in the nature of the instrument of government, which is demonstrated by conflicts of classes, parties and individuals. The elections and plebiscites were invented to cover the failure of these unsuccessful experiments to solve this problem. The solution lies in finding an instrument of government other than those which are subject to conflict and which represent only one faction of society; that is to say, an instrument of government which is not a party class, sect or a tribe, but an instrument of government which is the people as a whole. In other words, we seek an instrument of government which neither represents the people nor speaks in their name.

There can be no representation in lieu of the people and representation is fraud. If such an instrument can be found, then the problem is solved and true popular democracy is realized. Thus, humankind would have terminated the eras of tyranny and dictatorships, and replaced them with the authority of the people.

THE GREEN BOOK presents the ultimate solution to the problem of the instrument of government, and indicates for the masses the path upon which they can advance from the age of dictatorship to that of genuine democracy.

This new theory is based on the authority of the people, without representation or deputation. It achieves direct democracy in an orderly and effective form. It is superior to the older attempts at direct democracy which were impractical because they lacked popular organizations at base levels.

And Gaddafi describes the solution :
POPULAR CONFERENCES AND PEOPLE'S COMMITTEES

Popular Conferences are the only means to achieve popular democracy. Any system of government contrary to this method, the method of Popular Conferences, is undemocratic. All the prevailing systems of government in the world today will remain undemocratic, unless they adopt this method. Popular Conferences are the end of the journey of the masses in quest of democracy.

Popular Conferences and People's Committees are the fruition of the people's struggle for democracy. Popular Conferences and People's Committees are not creations of the imagination; they are the product of thought which has absorbed all human experiments to achieve democracy.

Direct democracy, if put into practice, is indisputably the ideal method of government. Because it is impossible to gather all people, however small the population, in one place so that they can discuss, discern and decide policies, nations departed from direct democracy, which became an utopian idea detached from reality. It was replaced by various theories of government, such as representative councils, party-coalitions and plebiscites, all of which isolated the masses and prevented them from managing their political affairs.

These instruments of government - the individual, the class, the sect, the tribe, the parliament and the party struggling to achieve power have plundered the sovereignty of the masses and monopolized politics and authority for themselves.

THE GREEN BOOK guides the masses to an unprecedented practical system of direct democracy. No two intelligent people can dispute the fact that direct democracy is the ideal, but until now no practical method for its implementation has been devised. The Third Universal Theory, however, now provides us with a practical approach to direct democracy. The problem of democracy in the world will finally be solved. All that is left before the masses now is the struggle to eliminate all prevailing forms of dictatorial governments, be they parliament, sect, tribe, class, one-party system, two-party system or multi-party system, which falsely call themselves democracies.

True democracy has but one method and one theory. The dissimilarity and diversity of the systems claiming to be democratic do, in fact, provide evidence that they are not so. Authority of the people has but one face which can only be realized through Popular Conferences and People's Committees. There can be no democracy without Popular Conferences and Committees everywhere.

First, the people are divided into Basic Popular Conferences. Each Basic Popular Conference chooses its secretariat. The secretariats of all Popular Conferences together form Non-Basic Popular Conferences. Subsequently, the masses of the Basic Popular Conferences select administrative People's Committees to replace government administration. All public institutions are run by People's Committees which will be accountable to the Basic Popular Conferences which dictate the policy and supervise its execution. Thus, both the administration and the supervision become the people's and the outdated definition of democracy - democracy is the supervision of the government by the people - becomes obsolete. It will be replaced by the true definition: Democracy is the supervision of the people by the people.

All citizens who are members of these Popular Conferences belong, vocationally and functionally, to various sectors and have, therefore, to form themselves into their own professional Popular Conferences in addition to being, by virtue of citizenship, members of the Basic Popular Conferences or People's Committees. Subjects dealt with by the Popular Conferences and People's Committees will eventually take their final shape in the General People's Congress, which brings together the Secretariats of the Popular Conferences and People's Committees. Resolutions of the General People's Congress, which meets annually or periodically, are passed on to the Popular Conferences and People's Committees, which undertake the execution of those resolutions through the responsible committees, which are, in turn, accountable to the Basic Popular Conferences.

The General People's Congress is not a gathering of persons or members such as those of parliaments but, rather, a gathering of the Popular Conferences and People's Committees.

Thus, the problem of the instrument of government is naturally solved, and all dictatorial instruments disappear. The people become the instrument of government, and the dilemma of democracy in the world is conclusively solved.
WHO SUPERVISES THE CONDUCT OF SOCIETY?

The question arises: who has the right to supervise society, and to point out deviations that may occur from the laws of society? Democratically, no one group can claim this right on behalf of society. Therefore, society alone supervises itself. It is dictatorial for any individual or group to claim the right of the supervision of the laws of the society, which is, democratically, the responsibility of the society as a whole. This can be arrived at through the democratic instrument of government that results from the organization of the society itself into Basic Popular Conferences, and through the government of these people through People's Committees and the General People's Congress - the national congress - where Secretariats of the Popular Conferences and the People's Committees convene. In accordance with this theory, the people become the instrument of government and, in turn, become their own supervisors. Society thus secures self-supervision over its laws.
 
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With increasing education, birth rates are falling for all Indians including Indian muslims.
Even though muslims may achieve majority in some of the smaller states, they will still need India for development.

its got nothing to do with education and birth rate. as hindutva grows, muslims will congregate and become majorities in some states.

We will not let country's borders be re-defined. When we have steadfastly held onto Kashmir for 70 years, we can do so for other states too.

good. we are counting on it. balkanisation of india needs the sort of crackdown on muslim majority states like what you people are doing in Kashmir. this helps us out massively. carry on.

Pakistan initiated the attack each time and you are calling us imperialist.

hilarious assessment. India's interference in East Pakistan long before 71 shows India's true colours. proxy war and dirty tactics were always initiated by India.

We are cool then. I dont mean to scare you either.
Kashmir belongs to India legally and morally (through Hari Singh and Sheikh Abdullah respectively).

then Junagarh belongs to Pakistan. but the will of the people was with India. so we have no issue with it being part of India, despite the legalities. people of Kashmir want Pakistan, but India doesnt care about the will of the people. they are only interested in what puppets like sheikh abdullah think.

India and Bangladesh will be in a tight economic embrace by then. BD will have no incentive to engage in a conflict with us then. Meaning their economy will suffer immensely if they fought us, and thus their own people will encourage peace.

Bangladesh wont want to fight. but it will happen. history is nothing but geography on wheels.

You already got more land compared to your population, and you think you deserved more? Forget it.

see, agreements mean nothing to India when they chose to (partition land, Junagarh), and they mean something when they choose to (Kashmir). then you have the audacity to say we use dirty tactics. lol.

Even before war on terror, Zia involved you in the fighting against Soviets. Your real downfall started from there.

fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan was a must. if they settled down there then there would have been a front war against Pakistan, with Soviets in the West and India in the East. Soviets have also always wanted ports and access to warm waters, such as Karachi, and one of the reasons why Russia supports Assad in Syria.

Your CPEC debt situation is going to get much worse.

doubt it. corrective measures are being taken.
Well I would like Muslims to adopt Modern Communism because it to me is Islam's natural successor

muslims dont need the filth of communism and filthy communists. keep your godlessness to yourself.
 
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In India and Africa Islam was spread by the sufis. In other places by merchants. Repressed people adopted it. So it was not always by the sword.

biggest bullshit statement, infact a good amount of islamic literature covers how to divide war booty and women folk of non believers lol
Islam was 90% sword thats why its weakening day by day

read the Hindu genocide specially in the modern pakistani region and north India

 
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Don't see these riots as isolated incidents, each riots is small civil war. And war is the most profitable business. If you pay attention most of the riots happen where Muslim are in somewhat better financial condition. RSS's intention is to break the financial back of Muslim community.

For example:
1. The 1980 Moradabad, UP riots, also known as the Moradabad Muslim Massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Moradabad_riots

Before the riots, muslim community dominate the utensil business, brassware, cutlery.

2. 1989 Bhagalpur violence

Some of the richest people of muslim community used to live in Bhagalpur, they controlled almost all of the Silk textile business. Lost after riots.

3. Three riots in Varanasi 1989-90 to1992.https://www.jstor.org/stable/4397689
https://read.dukeupress.edu/cssaame...n-Varanasi-1989-90-to-1992?redirectedFrom=PDF

Before the riots, muslim community dominated the Benaras Sari Business.

4. Fake news by Hindi newspapers fuelled 1992 Bhopal riots, killed 139 in communal clashes following Babri Masjid demolition

Muslim community lost domination of Tobacco, Beedi, Beetal Leaf business.

5. The Gulbarg Society massacre, took place on 28 February 2002, during the 2002 Gujarat riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbarg_Society_massacre

Before riots most of the cloth business was in the hands of Muslim community, as they had the finest weavers in the region.

6. Cow riots are specifically used to target Muslim in meat business.
 
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fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan was a must. if they settled down there then there would have been a front war against Pakistan, with Soviets in the West and India in the East. Soviets have also always wanted ports and access to warm waters, such as Karachi

Zia ul Haq's involvement in Afghanistan was primarily because he was a supporter of the Tableeghi Jamaat.

His previous notoriety was to kill the leftist PLO fighters in Jordan.

and one of the reasons why Russia supports Assad in Syria.

Do Russia and Syria have land connection ?

muslims dont need the filth of communism and filthy communists. keep your godlessness to yourself.

Then preach your hate in Pakistan against those Pakistani leftists like Faiz Ahmed Faiz and Mashal Khan. Demolish their monuments if any.

And preach for the filthy Taliban, Al Qaeda, FSA etc.

Lastly, may I ask your age ?
 
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