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Delays, poor planning and corruption mar Army's anti-tank missile programme

sasi

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When Gen. Bikram Singh took over as Army chief last year,he made it clear that military procurement was his top priority. True to his word, theArmy Headquarters okayed a number of weapon purchasesthat included night-vision devices for T-72 tanks, 52-calibre gun systems and air surveillance radars. The biggest one in the pipeline was the Rs.15,000 crore anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) deal.
The Army was keen to buy the Spike anti-tank missile, a lethal tank-killer manufactured by Israel's Rafael company, to replace the older Milan and Konkurs missiles. But, in the Defence Acquisition Council meeting held on April 2, Defence Minister A.K. Antony announced the freezing of the Spike missiles contract and ordered a technology scan0„30„9a procedure meant to ascertain whether it was possible to get a similar system from anywhere else.
The deal is now under scanner for more than one reason. Months before the documents related to the Spike missile reached Antony,someone from the defence ministry had, allegedly, leaked a bundle of classified documents related to the anti-tank missile programme to global arms dealers. The leaked documents contained precise details of the trial report, the exact quantity of launchers and missiles and an update on the procurement process. A stunned defence ministry is now trying to verify whether procurement procedures were manipulated to favour Rafael. Edmonds Allen, New York-based businessmen and whistle-blower, told the THE WEEK that top secret documents related to the procurement of the ATGMs were leaked. "I do not know who provided those documents to [Abhishek] Verma [currently in jail for selling classified Indian military documents]. He shared the documents with foreign defence firms," said Allen. "I have shared the details with the CBI."
During the desert trials in 2008, the Spike allegedly failed as seven out of 10 missiles had missed their targets, according to an Army officer who was familiar with the trials. "The trial team also raised questions about the missile's infrared seeker," said the officer. Yet, the Spike was selected on a single-vendor basis, without any competition.
Now, a technology scan is under way to find out whether similar missiles are available.
More than the technology scan, it is the allegations of corruption surrounding the deal that may force the defence ministry to notify a fresh tender. If the suspicion of corruption is confirmed, at the very least, the deal would be terminated, according to a senior official. That would be disastrous for Rafael as it would jeopardise hundreds of well-paid jobs, especially at its facility in Haifa. Moreover, the companycould be blacklisted for several years in India, if it is proven that it hired middlemen or paid commissions. Israel Military Industries, another leading Israeli firm, was blacklisted for 10 years after its name figured in a corruption scandal last year. Antony hasbeen exceptionally strict on defence deals.
When asked whether Rafael was associated with Verma orwhether the company had hired him for consultancy services in India, company spokesperson Amit Zimmer told THE WEEK that Rafael didnot provide such information. He, however, said the Spike was a well-known state-of-the-art system with 20 customers worldwide and orders exceeding 23,000 missiles.

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0„3¡ãThe military is directed to prepare themselves for a two-front war with Pakistan and China,0„3¡À said Lt-Gen. (retd) Prakash Katoch, a special forces veteran. 0„3¡ãYet, they are short of something as basic as anti-tank missiles.0„3¡À He said China already had third-generation missiles like the Green Arrow and the Red Arrow, while Pakistan was in possession of second-generation missiles like the Baktar-Shikan. The Pakistani army has approximately 2,400 tanks and India has 3,250, while China with 7,450 has more tanks than any other country in the world.
It was during the Kargil War that Indian commanders realised the operational utilityof the advanced anti-tank missiles as the Pakistani army had dug itself in high-altitude bunkers.
Full story-
The Week | Deal or no deal
 
Now i understand why israel is of late winning all the contracts!!!

7 out of 10 missiles fail and u still select that thing??wtf
if u have to select a mediocre performance missile,,,,,at least get a cheap desi version!!
@Dillinger @BlueDot_in_Space @Abingdonboy @hinduguy @Gessler
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Our armed forces have also tasted the 'benefits' of corruption and almost all deals later on turn out to be influenced one way or the other.
I don't care about kickbacks as long as the equipment performs.EXAMPLE IS TATRA TRUCKS
 
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are we going for 4km spike?
Or
reporter twisted 2.5 km and 4 km missles?
~~
10 out of 7 failed. But it is selected?
/
 
~~
are we going for 4km spike?
Or
reporter twisted 2.5 km and 4 km missles?
~~
10 out of 7 failed. But it is selected?
/

but wikipedia says it has a range of 800m to 25 km depending on the version!!!

25 km??wtf

Rate of fire Ready to launch in 30 seconds, reload in 15 seconds
Maximum range 800 to 25,000 m (870 to 27,000 yd) depending on version
Sights 10× optical sight
Warhead Tandem-charge HEAT warhead
Detonation


can anybody confirm this??

this part sounds good though

" the Americans are again pitching for the Javelin and they now appear to be willing to share the technology as well. Lockheed Martin and Raytheon said in a joint statement that they were ready to offer the Javelin as an option to meet India's requirement for an advanced, fire-and-forget anti-tank guided missile."
 
Guys look at the larger pic- just for 3-4% commission, mod officials selling the defence related stuffs.
What they will sell to enemys if they provide millions $ ?!
 
but wikipedia says it has a range of 800m to 25 km depending on the version!!!

25 km??wtf

Rate of fire Ready to launch in 30 seconds, reload in 15 seconds
Maximum range 800 to 25,000 m (870 to 27,000 yd) depending on version
Sights 10× optical sight
Warhead Tandem-charge HEAT warhead
Detonation


can anybody confirm this??

this part sounds good though

" the Americans are again pitching for the Javelin and they now appear to be willing to share the technology as well. Lockheed Martin and Raytheon said in a joint statement that they were ready to offer the Javelin as an option to meet India's requirement for an advanced, fire-and-forget anti-tank guided missile."

Javelin was selected by mod but due to some issues related to tot it never materialized. BTW first time i heard the range of spike is 25km!!
 
Guys look at the larger pic- just for 3-4% commission, mod officials selling the defence related stuffs.
What they will sell to enemys if they provide millions $ ?!

**** these assholes
 
Javelin was selected by mod but due to some issues related to tot it never materialized. BTW first time i heard the range of spike is 25km!!


but wikipedia says it has a range of 800m to 25 km depending on the version!!!

25 km??wtf

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wiki is BS every tom herry can change it

here is official refeal company web abut spike-LR range 4km max

Product Name:SPIKE LR
Title:Long Range Multi-Purpose Tactical Missile
The Spike-LR is a lightweight, Fire and Forget and Fire, Observe and Update, multi-purpose missile system with a range of up to 4,000 meters. State-of-the-art seeker and fiber-optic data communication link provide Spike-LR with the unique ability to:


Update or switch targets after launch
Achieve real-time intelligence and identify friend or foe
Perform battle damage assessment
Achieve extended range and pinpoint accuracy
Minimize collateral damage


Features:


Effective range: 200 - 4,000 meters
Weight:
Missile in canister 13 kg
Firing post 9 kg
Battery 1 kg
Tripod 3 kg
Operation: Fire and Forget or Fire, Observe & Update
Seeker: Electro Optical (CCD, IR or Dual CCD/IIR)
Shelf life: 20 years
Wooden round: 10 years maintenance free
Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd.


Spike NLOS Electro Optic Guided Missile has 25km range and its not ATGM but multi purpose missile can be fired from land air sea .
 
I don't buy it- what Spike version is in service with India? How many are I service in India? The answer to both-NONE.

I feel there is somthing fishy with this news as it looked like the Javelin had the IA's ATGM deal in the bag then the ToT issue arose and it looked as though the IA would simply go for the Spike and now this new emerges?



One thing I've learnt above all esle about Indian defence- never trust these desi journos. They can twist anything to sell new papers/garner attention and god knows whose paying them in some cases.
 
wiki is BS every tom herry can change it

here is official refeal company web abut spike-LR range 4km max

Product Name:SPIKE LR
Title:Long Range Multi-Purpose Tactical Missile
The Spike-LR is a lightweight, Fire and Forget and Fire, Observe and Update, multi-purpose missile system with a range of up to 4,000 meters. State-of-the-art seeker and fiber-optic data communication link provide Spike-LR with the unique ability to:


Update or switch targets after launch
Achieve real-time intelligence and identify friend or foe
Perform battle damage assessment
Achieve extended range and pinpoint accuracy
Minimize collateral damage


Features:


Effective range: 200 - 4,000 meters
Weight:
Missile in canister 13 kg
Firing post 9 kg
Battery 1 kg
Tripod 3 kg
Operation: Fire and Forget or Fire, Observe & Update
Seeker: Electro Optical (CCD, IR or Dual CCD/IIR)
Shelf life: 20 years
Wooden round: 10 years maintenance free
Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd.

thanks sir............ab chaen ki neend sounga!!

I don't buy it- what Spike version is in service with India? How many are I service in India? The answer to both-NONE.

I feel there is somthing fishy with this news as it looked like the Javelin had the IA's ATGM deal in the bag then the ToT issue arose and it looked as though the IA would simply go for the Spike and now this new emerges?



One thing I've learnt above all esle about Indian defence- never trust these desi journos. They can twist anything to sell new papers/garner attention and god knows whose paying them in some cases.

Jurnos are doing their job.............defence ministry has stopped the sale,,its a fact
 
thanks sir............ab chaen ki neend sounga!!



Jurnos are doing their job.............defence ministry has stopped the sale,,its a fact

How is this a fact when the entire deal was scrapped for entirely seperate reasons namely the Javelins lack of ToT compliance.
 
well,its the same case like our previous Nag trial in Rajasthan...seeker failed to distinguish target due to extreme heat..but then DRDO made new seeker and it was successfully hit the target..Spike isn't a bad missile.but it may be the same reason like Nag thats why they missed..

I personally like Javeline..best of the best.but too costly..but if they share tech,then we should go for it..last time,for some unknown reason,they wanted to ceiling number of missiles can be sold..that was the reason that the deal wasn't materialized..
 
thanks sir............ab chaen ki neend sounga!!

its ok bro how on earth you take on shoulder a 25km range missile :P yes there are missile but not what india is looking . you need man-portable missile not fixed . with 8km German PARS 3 LR fixed is good but then you have nag -tirshul in home why pay money ? indian army is looking for replace older Milan and Konkurs missiles. most of them have range 2 to 4 km russian Kornet has more range they said 5km but no effective .

well,its the same case like our previous Nag trial in Rajasthan...seeker failed to distinguish target due to extreme heat..but then DRDO made new seeker and it was successfully hit the target..Spike isn't a bad missile.but it may be the same reason like Nag thats why they missed..

I personally like Javeline..best of the best.but too costly..but if they share tech,then we should go for it..last time,for some unknown reason,they wanted to ceiling number of missiles can be sold..that was the reason that the deal wasn't materialized..

you are doing it wrong sir nag is not man portable missile .
 

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