Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia say KF-X project symbolizes bilateral trust

[Indos]

AlhamduliLLAH

Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia say KF-X project symbolizes bilateral trust

15:13 April 08, 2021

Defense Minister Suh Wook (R) and his Indonesian counterpart Prabowo Subianto inspect an honor guard prior to their talks at the defense ministry in Seoul on April 8, 2021, in this photo provided by the Kookbang Ilbo newspaper. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)

By Choi Soo-hyang

SEOUL, April 8 (Yonhap) -- Defense Minister Suh Wook and his Indonesian counterpart Prabowo Subianto agreed Thursday that a joint fighter jet development project symbolizes trust between the two countries, the ministry said.

Their meeting took place in Seoul as Prabowo visited South Korea to attend an upcoming rollout ceremony for a prototype of the country's first homegrown fighter, dubbed KF-X. Indonesia is a partner for the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.9 billion) project, called IF-X in the country.

During the talks, the two ministers agreed to work together to ensure brisk defense industry cooperation will continue as cooperation, such as the KF-X/IF-X joint development project, "symbolizes firm trust between the two countries," the ministry said in a release.

Prabowo's visit came amid speculation Indonesia may be seeking to quit the business. Indonesia had promised to shoulder 20 percent of the new fighter's development cost, but it has stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 600 billion won overdue.


Whether Indonesia will send senior officials to the rollout event has been a focus of attention as it could be a sign Jakarta remains committed to the project. The ceremony is expected to be held in the coming days, though authorities have yet to confirm.

During the talks, the two sides also agreed to hold a two-plus-two meeting of senior foreign and defense ministry officials this year and to launch a vice ministerial-level dialogue channel in the near future to boost strategic communication, it said.

They agreed to continue cooperation against nontraditional security threats, such as the new coronavirus, and vowed to expand military education exchanges, according to the ministry.

Suh also asked for support for South Korea's hosting of the annual vice ministerial-level security forum, Seoul Defense Dialogue, in September and a U.N. ministerial conference on peacekeeping operations in December, it said.

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Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia say KF-X project symbolizes bilateral trust | Yonhap News Agency

By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 8 (Yonhap) -- Defense Minister Suh Wook and his Indonesia...

m-en.yna.co.kr

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow

 

[Vapour]

Just wondering, why did Indonesia stop making payments?

 

[Indos]

Just wondering, why did Indonesia stop making payments?

Jokowi main focus is on economy, he may spend some for R&D but spending 2 billion USD for single project is too expensive according to him, and the renegotiation happened when we faced record trade deficit of 8 billion USD (2018).

We start having trade deficit since FTA ASEAN-China and the biggest one is in 2018 in which the time we start renegotiating and also dont pay the financial contribution, but we do still send enginners until March 2020 where they comes home due to Covid. September 2019 is also marked as the completion of detail design.

The trade deficit problem that could hit our currency is now, AlhamduliLLAH, getting solved. It is narrowing into 3 billion USD in 2019, getting surplus of 20 billion USD in 2020 and still surplus until February, March data hasnt come out. Respected institution like WB and IMF still expect we can get significant surplus this year and told that as one of the main drivers of our economic growth this year.

 

[Indos]

 

[Indos]

Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia affirm fighter deal cooperation​

By Choi Si-young
Published : Apr 8, 2021 - 17:18
Updated : Apr 8, 2021 - 19:48

Defense Ministers Suh Wook (right) and Prabowo Subianto do a fist bump before their talks in Seoul, Thursday. (Ministry of National Defense)


The South Korean and Indonesian defense chiefs said that their deal to build fighter jets together represents a relationship based on trust, and that they should build on the legacy to expand exchanges, at a face-to-face meeting in Seoul on Thursday.

The KF-X program, in which Indonesia seeks a 20 percent share and technology know-how while Korea holds the rest, is set to reveal its prototype jet on Friday -- but Indonesia has so far paid just $22 million, about 13 percent of what it owes. Economic difficulties are reportedly among the reasons.

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is expected to join his counterpart, Minister Suh Wook, at the unveiling ceremony to take place here.

The two said they will make what they call a “special, strategic partnership” stronger as they work together on military technologies and seek cooperation on regional security. A senior-level talk involving key defense and foreign officials from both countries will open soon, they added.

Later in the day, Prabowo met with South Korean President Moon Jae-in, who reaffirmed the unique relationship between Korea and Indonesia, which is the only country in Asia with which Seoul maintains a strategic partnership.

“The joint work to build fighter jets demonstrates the highest levels of trust between the two governments, and we met today to follow through on that commitment,” Moon said. Prabowo responded to Moon with the promise that he would help forge stronger ties.

Read more:

Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia affirm fighter deal cooperation

The South Korean and Indonesian defense chiefs said that their deal to build Korea’s first homegrown fighter jets together represents a relationship based on trust, and that they should build on the legacy to expand exchanges, at a face-to-face meeting in Seoul on Thursday. The KF-X program, in...

m.koreaherald.com

 

[Indos]

 

[Viet]

Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia affirm fighter deal cooperation​

By Choi Si-young
Published : Apr 8, 2021 - 17:18
Updated : Apr 8, 2021 - 19:48


View attachment 732057
Defense Ministers Suh Wook (right) and Prabowo Subianto do a fist bump before their talks in Seoul, Thursday. (Ministry of National Defense)


The South Korean and Indonesian defense chiefs said that their deal to build fighter jets together represents a relationship based on trust, and that they should build on the legacy to expand exchanges, at a face-to-face meeting in Seoul on Thursday.

The KF-X program, in which Indonesia seeks a 20 percent share and technology know-how while Korea holds the rest, is set to reveal its prototype jet on Friday -- but Indonesia has so far paid just $22 million, about 13 percent of what it owes. Economic difficulties are reportedly among the reasons.

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto is expected to join his counterpart, Minister Suh Wook, at the unveiling ceremony to take place here.

The two said they will make what they call a “special, strategic partnership” stronger as they work together on military technologies and seek cooperation on regional security. A senior-level talk involving key defense and foreign officials from both countries will open soon, they added.

Later in the day, Prabowo met with South Korean President Moon Jae-in, who reaffirmed the unique relationship between Korea and Indonesia, which is the only country in Asia with which Seoul maintains a strategic partnership.

“The joint work to build fighter jets demonstrates the highest levels of trust between the two governments, and we met today to follow through on that commitment,” Moon said. Prabowo responded to Moon with the promise that he would help forge stronger ties.

Read more:

Defense chiefs of S. Korea, Indonesia affirm fighter deal cooperation

The South Korean and Indonesian defense chiefs said that their deal to build Korea’s first homegrown fighter jets together represents a relationship based on trust, and that they should build on the legacy to expand exchanges, at a face-to-face meeting in Seoul on Thursday. The KF-X program, in...

m.koreaherald.com

You pay only $22 million for the participation? Wow that’s very cheap.
We can’t even buy a patrol ship by this price in Vietnam.

 

[Indos]

FM Chung, Indonesia defense chief agree to advance cooperation in joint fighter jet project

All News 15:03 April 09, 2021

Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong (R) stands together with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto ahead of their meeting at Seoul's foreign ministry, in this photo provided by Chung's office, on April 9, 2021. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)


SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong met with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto on Friday and agreed to work together to move substantial cooperation between the two countries forward, including an ongoing joint fighter jet development project, the ministry said.

The meeting took place as Prabowo was in South Korea to attend the rollout ceremony of a prototype of South Korea's first indigenous fighter jet, named the KF-X in the South Korean and IF-X in Indonesia.

"The ministers agreed to make joint efforts to continue to advance mutually beneficial, substantial cooperation, such as the joint KF-X/IF-X fighter jet development project, based on the deep trust between South Korea and Indonesia as special strategic partners," the ministry said.

Prabowo held talks with Defense Minister Suh Wook on Thursday.

As part of the joint development deal, Indonesia is supposed to shoulder 20 percent of the total development cost in the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.9 billion) project. But Jakarta stopped making payments after investing 227.2 billion won, with around 600 billion won overdue.

That has sparked speculation that the country may be seeking to quit the business.

In Friday's talks, Chung and Prabowo shared an understanding on the need for a "two-plus-two" dialogue involving the two countries' foreign and defense ministers to further strengthen strategic communication in the diplomatic and security areas, the ministry said.

As a first step, the two sides agreed to a two plus two dialogue at the director-general level, it said.
At the talks, Chung also expressed hope that Indonesia will continue its support for Korea's peace process, and Prabowo, in turn, reaffirmed his country's unwavering backing, the ministry added.

Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong (R) stands together with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto ahead of their meeting at Seoul's foreign ministry, in this photo provided by Chung's office, on April 9, 2021. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)


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FM Chung, Indonesia defense chief agree to advance cooperation in joint fighter jet project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- Foreign Minister Chung Eui-yong met with Indonesian Defense Min...

en.yna.co.kr

@Whizzack @182 Newest update......

 

[striver44]

Korea should be more direct next time, Indonesia wants advanced capabilities for cheap. Not gonna happen.

 

[Indos]

Korea should be more direct next time, Indonesia wants advanced capabilities for cheap. Not gonna happen.

Some people are just not interested on this defense stuff, particularly women. We have Sri Mulyani as Finance Minister here. Some are just enough with the so called prosperity and never has ambition on power, they should understand that changing geopolitical landscape after 2030 will make the world much more fragile than Today where multi polar world are exist and China will become dominant power in Asia Pacific.

Prosperity should be protected by power and we also need to improve our defense industry over time to get more independency in defense equipment which is a very strategic objective, particularly in full scale war where enemy country will try attack any merchant ships heading to our country to cut the supply line.

 

[striver44]

Some people are just not interested on this defense stuff, particularly women. We have Sri Mulyani as Finance Minister here. Some are just enough with the so called prosperity and never has ambition on power, they should understand that changing geopolitical landscape after 2030 will make the world much more fragile than Today where multi polar world are exist and China will become dominant power in Asia Pacific.

Prosperity should be protected by power and we also need to improve our defense industry over time to get more independency in defense equipment which is a very strategic objective, particularly in full scale war where enemy country will try attack any merchant ships heading to our country to cut the supply line.

Negligence on defense is a crime, it's the obligation of whoever in power to protect the citizens of the country, many EU nations are now going this path with the likes of most ASEAN countries (except for maybe Singapore).

we only spend like less than 1% of GDP on defense.

 

[182]

You pay only $22 million for the participation? Wow that’s very cheap.
We can’t even buy a patrol ship by this price in Vietnam.

nope, its typo by the journalist, should be US$ 220 millions dollars or 227.2 billion won.
the total development cost in the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.9 billion)
with 20% shares, approx. US$ 1.58 billions,
we paid 13% and i belief it's not $22 millions, rite

it's more like, a corvette warship to me, of course with european full armaments lol

 

[UKBengali]

Can someone explain concisely what the Indonesian input is into this project?

To me it looks like S Korea is doing all the high-level stuff like radar, avionics, missiles and airframe design, with Indonesia mainly getting some input in performance requirements, final assembly and manufacturing some parts like airframe sections.

 

[Indos]

Can someone explain concisely what the Indonesian input is into this project?

To me it looks like S Korea is doing all the high-level stuff like radar, avionics, missiles and airframe design, with Indonesia mainly getting some input in performance requirements, final assembly and manufacturing some parts like airframe sections.

Mostly on design, part manufacturing, assembly for IFX, and testing (1 prototype will be tested in Indonesian Aerospace) since Indonesia is only involved with PT Dirgantara Indonesia, which is a company like Boeing and Airbus where the focus is only design, fuselage manufacturing, lead integrator, and testing. Of course in electronics, Korea is far ahead of Indonesia and Indonesian electronics company is not included in the program.

Another reason why Indonesia electronics company is not included is also because initially the electronics will all use American products, but later American refuse to give 4 core technologies that are all in electronics and then Korea develop it by themselves.

You should understand that design needs a lot of designers, particularly during detail design, this is why during the peak of design work there are 114 Indonesian engineers in KAI (July 2019). The design is completed in around September 2019 with CDR meeting held at that time.

The numbers Indonesian involved are increasing from 2011 until now. According Korean side, the first development there are 28 Indonesian engineers (I believe they are all experts with huge design experience), and then the number increases into around 72 engineers in 2017 and 114 engineers in 2019. They are all experienced engineers one since Korean only want Indonesian engineers whose ages are above 35 years old.

Indonesia resumes KFX payments

Janes | The latest defence and security news from Janes - the trusted source for defence intelligence.

www.janes.com

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Here are the article talking about what happened during development phase.

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.

Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi

Tak lebih dari 10 negara di muka bumi ini yang sungguh-sungguh bisa membuat pesawat tempur. Indonesia kini hendak masuk jajaran elite negara-negara itu.

www.cnnindonesia.com

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This is about first development phase

Translation from Google translate:

February 6, 2014 (Angkasa/Space Magazine)

KFX / IFX program continued , Government Asked to Immediately Selecting Design

Korea was once considered Indonesia engineer do not understand about the design of a jet fighter. But the notion was quickly turned , when the Indonesian team describes the design and the various inputs. The Indonesian side also the one who finally managed to convince that the aircraft take-off weight of 50,000 pounds must .

Confirmation of the Parliament of South Korea on the resumption of the program KFX / IFX team warmly welcomed designers from Indonesia. They include asking both governments immediately call the engineers involved in preparing work that has been long overdue. They also want the governments of both countries to make sure one of the two designs that have been produced in the Technology Development phase for cultivation in the next phase .

"Program KFX / IFX is a multi - program years , costly, and involve various sectors and foreign partners. For that there must be a definite declaration on it goes. For Indonesia it is important to determine the financing schemes and their human resources planning, "said Dr Rais Zain, M. Eng , KFX / IFX Configuration Design Leader for Angkasa , in late January.

"In the near future Indonesia will also work on the N219 and R - 80. We do not have enough engineers to work three programs, especially KFX / IFX will take place until the 2020s. The government is expected to call home engineers who are now working abroad to come help the regeneration process. Outside there are approximately 200 people . If half of it can be returned to the country, it is enough to help, " added Rais who is also a lecturer at the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering ITB, Bandung.

As reported by the national media, the confirmation of the continuation of the program of making front - liner Korean - Indonesian fighter jets received by the Ministry of Defense on January 3, 2014. Notice is further announced Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters, Wednesday, January 8, 2014, on the sidelines of Rapim Kemenhan in Jakarta. Explanations related to exposure delivered weapon system procurement plans in the Strategic Plan II, 2015-2019.

The Indonesian government hopes the project of making the 4.5 generation fighter jet could be done because it would be a referral program to remove the dependence of the transfer of technology from other countries. Besides KFX / IFX, Indonesia is also pursuing a program of making submarines , warships, propellants , rockets, and tank size medium. For submarines, Indonesia is also cooperating with the same country.

Superior to the Su - 35Program KFX / IFX was stopped temporarily by Korea's new leader Park Geun - Hye end of 2012 after reviewing the state financially in the country. This prestigious project was worked on since the beginning of 2011, shortly after President Lee Myung - bak and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono confirmed the bilateral cooperation in the defense field in Jakarta. From the Technology Development Phase that has been completed, a team of scientists has completed a number of conical design that later became two.

The two designs is a model of the stealth fighter jet -winning twin-engine air superiority with horizontally - tails in the back, and the other one is with canards on the front. "Each has consequences different financing and partners. Thus , it must first be decided which one is selected. It is important that when followed, all parties are ready to do it , "said Rais Zain , whose day-to- day lecturer at the Faculty of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering,ITB, Bandung.

As stated Wamenhan Sjafrie, Korean parliament has prepared 20 million U.S. dollars (temporary , Indonesia : $ 5 million) to continue this program in 2015. At that time , the team will go to the Engineering Manufacturing Development Phase. In addition must have a high thrust engine with a power to be able to fight in the air, the aircraft must also have weapons stored in the internal weapons bay , the data - link capable of randomizing communications, advanced radar target voters, and anti - jamming device.

The prototype is expected to finish by the end of the Strategic Plan II . Even if there are things that need to be criticized , it is a matter of operation requirements are much more determined the Korean Air Force . This was inevitable because the Korean bear 80 percent of the funding, and the country actually have a real enemy. This program is targeted to spawn a jet fighter with performance equivalent or superior to the opponent fighter jets which are the Sukhoi Su - 35.

Prerequisites itself dismissed the proposed counter designs KAI ( Korean Aerospace Industrie) recently, rather than to cut development costs are too great. In configuration ( see Space, December 2013 ), looks KFX type E is only one engine powered with weapons outside the radar sweep prone opponent.

Angkasa examine admiration of ADD ( Agency for Defense Development, Defence Research and Development Agency of Korea ) submitted to the Indonesian engineer team. Initially, the team assumes Korea really had no idea about the design of Indonesian fighter jets. However, the assumption was turned when Indonesian engineers began to describe the design and the various inputs to the design of Korea. The Indonesian side also who ultimately ensure that the aircraft must have a takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds.(A.Darmawan/Angkasa magazine).

http://www.angkasa.co.id/index.php/...tkan-pemerintah-diminta-segera-memilih-desain

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This is the most respected aerospace media in Indonesia but unfortunatelly they have erased that 2014 page but I have posted the translation in previous KFX/IFX thread in 2014.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kf-x...of-south-korea-indonesia-images.182361/page-4

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Number of Indonesian engineers (designers) as of July 2019


"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...

en.yna.co.kr

 

[Indos]

There is attempt of course to build subsystem but it will be long term, the one that is promising is InfoGlobal and it is presented in IndoDefense 2016 event, I believe they can make it better if they become part of the program so they will get the funding just like Korean ones (Hanwa/LG)

During Indodefense 2016 event, they put canard that maybe due to during development phase there are two KFX/IFX design, with and without canard.

AESA Radar prototype developed by ITB (Institute Technology Bandung).

Presented in IndoDefense Event 2018

For flight control system it is both state owned PT LEN Industry and Gov research agency, LAPAN, which we can rely and now they are developing flight control system, mission system and other electronics system for Indonesian Male UCAV

@UKBengali