Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner

[Sergi]

Dont loose hope here . Indians perform stuff better when they are late

I don't have any objection to Indian stuff. AMCA is very important project; I have objection on holding a complete project (read AMCA) for a complete other project( Kaveri JV)
We have seen what happen when we combine LCA and Kaveri.

 

[帅的一匹]

Honestly,fighter engine is more complicated than rocket design.

I mean with the help from France and Russia, India should have built some decent engine. We are working on our own, sad but don't have another choice. We got banned from getting western tech, we shall salute to the Russian.

If we were at Indian position, we will do better. Anyone deny that?

 

[Koovie]

Honestly,fighter engine is more complicated than rocket design.

I mean with the help from France and Russia, India should have built some decent engine. We are working on our own, sad but don't have another choice. We got banned from getting western tech, we shall salute to the Russian.

If we were at Indian position, we will do better. Anyone deny that?

You Chinese got the luck that you arent constantly hindered by bureaucracy, incompetent leadership and corruption.
Quite a big problem here in India, but I guess that applies fore most south Asian countries.

 

[Anony]

Honestly,fighter engine is more complicated than rocket design.

I mean with the help from France and Russia, India should have built some decent engine. We are working on our own, sad but don't have another choice. We got banned from getting western tech, we shall salute to the Russian.

If we were at Indian position, we will do better. Anyone deny that?

Atleast I don't deny that. Though India will never do this but even today if India start re-engineering Russian made products, we will not achieve what China has achieved by re-engineering.

 

[MilSpec]

Honestly,fighter engine is more complicated than rocket design.

I mean with the help from France and Russia, India should have built some decent engine. We are working on our own, sad but don't have another choice. We got banned from getting western tech, we shall salute to the Russian.

If we were at Indian position, we will do better. Anyone deny that?

Working on your own.... weren't russians have been helping you???

As far your engines are concerned, you dear chief of pakistan pretty much pasted a huge slap of your industry.

While in Moscow, Gen Kayani is also likely to canvass for the Kremlin’s approval for three crucial projects: creation of an engine overhaul facility in Kamra for the 84.4kN-thrust Klimov RD-93, which powers the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) JF-17 ‘Thunder’ MRCA; another overhaul workshop for the 12 RD & PE Zvezda JSC-built UPAZ-1 aerial refuelling pods in service with the PAF’s four IL-78MKP MRTT transports; continued product-support for the four IL-78MKPs; and most importantly, the export approval for 132kN-thrust AL-31FN turbofans required for powering the initial 40 FC-20 (36-single-seat and four tandem-seat) M-MRCAs that the PAF wants to procure from China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corp (which is also producing the JF-17)

 

[kam83]

Atleast I don't deny that. Though India will never do this but even today if India start re-engineering Russian made products, we will not achieve what China has achieved by re-engineering.

Why u think is that is the case..Is it genetics..or they more grey cell in their brain

why u generalize ur inferiority complex on all countrymen

Chinese copied all fighter jets design to inch ..we designed our own
Chinese copied Engine ..We tried to built ..both are not yet successfull

You praise china all u want .i don't give a damn..But don't Speak Garbage about the ppl who are toiling there Day and night trying to better our nation..by saying Indian would not have been able to do this and that .....

If you think your incapable infront of world...so thats your view ..Don't dump that all of us ....

Good knows when ppl of this country start having some self respect And stop bowing down to Foreigners and stop being a kiss-***


Three Visions for India -DR A P J Abdul Kalam

Three Visions for India -DR A P J Abdul Kalam

n 3000 years of our history people from all over the world have come and invaded us, captured our lands, conquered our minds. From Alexander onwards, The Greeks, the Turks, the Moguls, the Portuguese, the British, the French, the Dutch, all of them came and looted us, took over what was ours. Yet we have not done this to any other nation. We have not conquered anyone. We have not grabbed their land, their culture, their history and tried to enforce our way of life on them. Why? Because we respect the freedom of others.



That is why my first vision is that of FREEDOM. I believe that India got its first vision of this in 1857, when we started the war of independence. It is this freedom that we must protect and nurture and build on. If we are not free, no one will respect us.

My second vision for India is DEVELOPMENT.

For fifty years we have been a developing nation. It is time we see ourselves as a developed nation. We are among top 5 nations of the world in terms of GDP. We have 10 percent growth rate inmost areas. Our poverty levels are falling. Our achievements are being globally recognized today. Yet we lack the self-confidence to see ourselves as a developed nation, self-reliant and self-assured. Isn’t this incorrect?

I have a THIRD vision.

India must stand up to the world. Because I believe that unless India stands up to the world, no one will respect us. Only strength respects strength. We must be strong not only as a military power but also as an economic power. Both must go hand-in-hand. My good fortune was to have worked with three great minds. Dr. Vikram Sarabhai of the Dept. of space, Professor Satish Dhawan, who succeeded him and Dr. Brahm Prakash, father of nuclear material. I was lucky to have worked with all three of them closely and consider this the great opportunity of my life.

 

[faithfulguy]

Atleast I don't deny that. Though India will never do this but even today if India start re-engineering Russian made products, we will not achieve what China has achieved by re-engineering.

India should just focus on development of engines but do not tie an aircraft to an engine until the engine is ready. Otherwise, it must have a plan B. If not, the next plane will take even longer than LCA.

 

[Skull and Bones]

I guess if GOI can put some money, Russia might help. There is no chance from others.

Obviously we're putting in money, what makes you think the vendors are out to do social service? And Russia is a strictly no go in this case, as they'll try to sabotage the whole Kaveri project and push in their own upgraded RD-93 engines.

 

[anant_s]

We often forget the fact that jet and fighter industry hasn't evolved overnight. Initial Nazi research into these areas was bedrock for the modern jet technology. subsequent engines and technology developed on maturing of this and development of material and manufacturing industry.
Modern engines require an equally competent metal industry which we donot have. To put things into perspective, even the much lower temperature steam turbine blades (operating at far lower speed 3000 rpm and temperature 400 deg C max) could not be built in India untill a few years ago. Jet engines operate far hotter and blades rotate far faster, under these conditions, Team building Kaveri hasn't done too bad.

If one were to list top 3 reasons for failure to develop jet engine, i guess these would be:
1. No genuine research by Universities or participation by industry to aid Govt efforts.
2. Not much of high end ingenious industry support for the project.
3. Lack of accepting reality. Well for an industry that hasn't developed any worthwhile jet engine, expecting a engine for 4-5th gen fighter is a little too optimistic.

The sad part is the money that is going to be spent with prospective foreign partner could well have been invested in domestic institutes and industries. We may not have had Indian F-414 or RD 33 by now but would surely have come a long way from the sorry state we find ourselves in at the moment.

 

[Anony]

Why u think is that is the case..Is it genetics..or they more grey cell in their brain

why u generalize ur inferiority complex on all countrymen

Chinese copied all fighter jets design to inch ..we designed our own
Chinese copied Engine ..We tried to built ..both are not yet successfull

You praise china all u want .i don't give a damn..But don't Speak Garbage about the ppl who are toiling there Day and night trying to better our nation..by saying Indian would not have been able to do this and that .....

If you think your incapable infront of world...so thats your view ..Don't dump that all of us ....

Good knows when ppl of this country start having some self respect And stop bowing down to Foreigners and stop being a kiss-***


Three Visions for India -DR A P J Abdul Kalam

Three Visions for India -DR A P J Abdul Kalam

n 3000 years of our history people from all over the world have come and invaded us, captured our lands, conquered our minds. From Alexander onwards, The Greeks, the Turks, the Moguls, the Portuguese, the British, the French, the Dutch, all of them came and looted us, took over what was ours. Yet we have not done this to any other nation. We have not conquered anyone. We have not grabbed their land, their culture, their history and tried to enforce our way of life on them. Why? Because we respect the freedom of others.



That is why my first vision is that of FREEDOM. I believe that India got its first vision of this in 1857, when we started the war of independence. It is this freedom that we must protect and nurture and build on. If we are not free, no one will respect us.

My second vision for India is DEVELOPMENT.

For fifty years we have been a developing nation. It is time we see ourselves as a developed nation. We are among top 5 nations of the world in terms of GDP. We have 10 percent growth rate inmost areas. Our poverty levels are falling. Our achievements are being globally recognized today. Yet we lack the self-confidence to see ourselves as a developed nation, self-reliant and self-assured. Isn’t this incorrect?

I have a THIRD vision.

India must stand up to the world. Because I believe that unless India stands up to the world, no one will respect us. Only strength respects strength. We must be strong not only as a military power but also as an economic power. Both must go hand-in-hand. My good fortune was to have worked with three great minds. Dr. Vikram Sarabhai of the Dept. of space, Professor Satish Dhawan, who succeeded him and Dr. Brahm Prakash, father of nuclear material. I was lucky to have worked with all three of them closely and consider this the great opportunity of my life.

Dude I respect your sentiment. But don't let this become reality. And I strongly feel this is one of the reason for this delay of Kaveri.In 1989 when money was sanctioned for developing Kaveri engine, everyone questioned India's ability to develop indigenous engine but DRDO claim that they will ready it in 93 months. It was a optimistic statement considering Snecma who has experience of decades took 17 years to develop engine for Rafale.

In 1996 after 93 months was over and again in 2004 it was advised that GTRE should look for a foreign partner but they resisted just because of this very sentiment. And now after such a long time the option has been considered.

 

[PoKeMon]

So one reason behind selecting France Rafale is all gone in vain.

 

[qwerrty]

Why u think is that is the case..Is it genetics..or they more grey cell in their brain

why u generalize ur inferiority complex on all countrymen

Chinese copied all fighter jets design to inch ..we designed our own
Chinese copied Engine ..We tried to built ..both are not yet successfull

You praise china all u want .i don't give a damn..But don't Speak Garbage about the ppl who are toiling there Day and night trying to better our nation..by saying Indian would not have been able to do this and that .....

oh please, india can't even make mig-21 spares to stop em from crashing again and again for decades. that is with a TOT from russia. forget jet engine. lol.. try to make some simple rifle and ammo first, which you guys also having no success..

 

[sancho]

Seems like General Electric or Rolls Royce going to win it.

Possible options:

Eurojet (which includes RR and MTU), based on the EJ 200 of the EF

Snecma, based on the M88-3

Klimov, based on the RD33 MK

GE, based on the 414


Realistically only Snecma, or Eurojet will be options since they have modern engines and might be ready to provide sufficiant techs without restrictions, although both will come at high costs.
The sad thing is, that we could have combined this years ago with the LCA development from the begining, or when we searched an engine for the MK2. Again very poor planing and project management!

 

[IND151]

Important Part

The refined Kaveri engine that will come out of the foreign collaboration will be used for the futuristic AMCA, but not for the Tejas fighters of the Indian Air Force (IAF), which American engines will power. The first 40 Tejas Mark I are being built with the General Electric F-404IN engine, while the subsequent Tejas Mark II would have the more powerful GE F-414 engine.

 

[kam83]

Dude I respect your sentiment. But don't let this become reality. And I strongly feel this is one of the reason for this delay of Kaveri.In 1989 when money was sanctioned for developing Kaveri engine, everyone questioned India's ability to develop indigenous engine but DRDO claim that they will ready it in 93 months. It was a optimistic statement considering Snecma who has experience of decades took 17 years to develop engine for Rafale.

In 1996 after 93 months was over and again in 2004 it was advised that GTRE should look for a foreign partner but they resisted just because of this very sentiment. And now after such a long time the option has been considered.

Well they tried but you can't blame them for all the misfortune that happened with kaveri...With all the sanctions imposed they still achieved
Military thrust (throttled): 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN)

even after being a newbie,with huge redtape legacy at there doorstep...

I know you like all indians,want to see india self reliant in defence matter..... But you can't develop All that without facing failures...its not as easy as copying some blueprint to inches and rebranding it.....It got take it on a chin..Accept you short coming which you are not able to overcome even after trying hard...

But pls don't discourage the ppl........You may never know who is reading your post ..Encourage them......

IF we don't support our fellowmen nobody will.....And we will remain forever foreign military supply buyers

PS:- i m sorry if i hurted ur feeling,that was not my intention...