Decision On MRCA Combat Aircraft Within Fortnight: India

acetophenol · Dec 23, 2011

atul0408 said:
According to De fence contracts the company which will win has to spend 30% in india

Any idea which company will benefits in private sector , so that we can buy shares and make some money

For mmrca its 50%

SQ8 · Dec 23, 2011

Getting 6 countries to invest a couple of million is better than getting one to.
its 6 stakeholders who can be used for diplomatic and financial gains later on instead of one.

acetophenol · Dec 23, 2011

I still support rafale!

SpArK · Dec 23, 2011

atul0408 said:
According to De fence contracts the company which will win has to spend 30% in india

Any idea which company will benefits in private sector , so that we can buy shares and make some money

void_0in · Dec 23, 2011

Veritas said:
I hope they dump both the expensive european divas. Each plane is over 100Million plus. If we have that much cash to burn 10 billion will buy India a lot of JF-17 India will have enough jets to get rid of all the parliamentarians.

**** off **** False Flagger

cyphercide · Dec 24, 2011

The question of spares and upgrades looms large with the Rafale platform.Is India going to be held hostage to exorbitant rates demanded by the French again as seen with the Mirage 2000 upgrade program? Such arm twisting wouldn't apply to the EFT camp as the component manufacturers(if shortlisted would see India being one too) are spread across the board with nobody holding singular monopoly.

To address capability,the IAF terms both finalists as more or less comparable and that's good enough for me.In quintessence,it shouldn't be much of a hiccup for the Indian establishment on which fighter to induct.

Rajaraja Chola · Dec 24, 2011

void_0in said:
**** off **** False Flagger

He s just making fun, so no need to get serious dude !!
And i expect it in a within a fortnight within a fortnight within a fortnight !!!

Abingdonboy · Dec 24, 2011

I have to say in practical terms the EFT seems the best plaform in terms of performance, order book, growth potential and inherent political considerations (6 vs 1).

sancho · Dec 24, 2011

Santro said:
Getting 6 countries to invest a couple of million is better than getting one to.
its 6 stakeholders who can be used for diplomatic and financial gains later on instead of one.

I guess you mean 4, because the Saudis and Austria are just export customers.

cyphercide said:
The question of spares and upgrades looms large with the Rafale platform.Is India going to be held hostage to exorbitant rates demanded by the French again as seen with the Mirage 2000 upgrade program? Such arm twisting wouldn't apply to the EFT camp as the component manufacturers(if shortlisted would see India being one too) are spread across the board with nobody holding singular monopoly.

Actually it's the other way around, but you are not the only one that confuses having more export customers and orders, with less upgrade or operational costs. The fact is, Rafale is clearly more upgraded than EF, because France had a prime focus on that from the begining and that's one reason it is so much more capable than the EF today. For the EF on the other side, the 2 export customers didn't made any difference on these issues, because it's the partner countries who are responsible for the upgrades and since they don't have the money to do it, they are searching for new partners to pay for, partners like India.
It is also well reported, that the Rafale is cheaper to operate than the EF and that the later has serious spare supply issues, which caused delays operational problems and canibalising in the RAF.

SpArK · Dec 24, 2011

Logistics , funding and decision making headache of 4 Vs 1

Me prefer 1.

cyphercide · Dec 24, 2011

sancho said:
Actually it's the other way around, but you are not the only one that confuses having more export customers and orders with less upgrade or operational costs. The fact is, Rafale is clearly more upgraded than EF, because France had a prime focus on that from the begining and that's one reason it is so much more capable than the EF today. For the EF on the other side, the 2 export customers didn't made any difference on these issues, because it's the partner countries who are responsible for the upgrades and since they don't have the money to do it, they are searching for new partners to pay for, partners like India.
It is also well reported, that the Rafale is cheaper to operate than the EF and that the later has serious spare supply issues, which caused delays operational problems and canibalising in the RAF.

Like I stated earlier,after extensive tests if the IAF didn't find a specific deficiency with either one then that should suffice as our yardstick in respective performance.The operating cycle isn't the factor in contention much rather the leverage a singular supplier might play havoc on our operational efficiency through thick and thin.Also,it is to be noted that the French haven't overtly stated their support in adhering to any conditions put forward by us,TOT or otherwise while the EFT camp readily did on multiple occasions.

Like Santro pointed out,it has very tangible political dimensions as well.So it can be considered as an open and shut case in favor for the EFT.

sancho · Dec 24, 2011

Abingdonboy said:
I have to say in practical terms the EFT seems the best plaform in terms of performance, order book, growth potential and inherent political considerations (6 vs 1).

Ehm, not really! As a platform and based on performance, without dedicated pod station, with only 3 wet/heavy stations, with the necessity of CFTs to do deep strike missions, with the very poor multi role capabilities it has, how should he be better than Rafale? The order books looks only better, mainly because the orders of the 4 partners, otherwhise we see only 90 x export orders and apart from India, there is no more deal in sight. The UAE alone wants 60 Rafales, with several other countries interested, not to mention that the chances in India aren't bad at all.

Same goes actually for growth potential, where it has to catch up to Rafale first, which is way ahead and is constantly getting further upgraded, while the EF isn't. The political advantage lies of course on the EF side, with 4 vs 1 and not 6, but when we take our past experience to account, the 1 was and is way more reliable to India than the 4 others, because they are more independent and self-reliant. No doubt that's a huge point that IAF won't forget!

The only point where EF might have a real advantage, is the offset field, because the consortium companies are big players and bigger than their counterparts from Rafale. Besides that, EF lives mainly on myth about it's performance (thanks to good PR) and very old plans about it's future potential, but when we take the reality to account, practically it is a bad choice for India.

sancho · Dec 24, 2011

cyphercide said:
Like I stated earlier,after extensive tests if the IAF didn't find a specific deficiency with either one then that should suffice as our yardstick in respective performance.The operating cycle isn't the factor in contention much rather the leverage a singular supplier might play havoc on our operational efficiency through thick and thin.Also,it is to be noted that the French haven't overtly stated their support in adhering to any conditions put forward by us,TOT or otherwise while the EFT camp readily did on multiple occasions.

Like Santro pointed out,it has very tangible political dimensions as well.So it can be considered as an open and shut case in favor for the EFT.

On the contrary! It was the French that were the first to offer us full ToT and no radar source codes in the MMRCA, next to the Russians. EF consortium and to some extend the Swedes followed only way later and it is also wrong that the operating cycle wouldn't be important. In fact, the former air chief Naik itself stated, that not the unit cost is important, but the lifecycle costs throughout the 40 years of service that IAF is planing with.
Wrt the tests of IAF, they tested the current capabilities and projected the performance of the capabilities that are also on offer, otherwise the EF couldn't be shortlisted, because it didn't fit to many requirements today. It has no AESA radar available for the trials, it had the poorest A2G or multi role capabilities of all fighters, the AESA radar will hardly be ready in time and most of the upgrades are only available on paper or prototype varients. So on the one hand we have the Rafale than can do anything IAF wants it to do even today and on the other side we have the EF, which is mainly expected to be good when all upgrades are developed and tested.

cyphercide · Dec 24, 2011

sancho said:
On the contrary! It was the French that were the first to offer us full ToT and no radar source codes in the MMRCA, next to the Russians. EF consortium and to some extend the Swedes followed only way later and it is also wrong that the operating cycle wouldn't be important. In fact, the former air chief Naik itself stated, that not the unit cost is important, but the lifecycle costs throughout the 40 years of service that IAF is planing with.
Wrt the tests of IAF, they tested the current capabilities and projected the performance of the capabilities that are also on offer, otherwise the EF couldn't be shortlisted, because it didn't fit to many requirements today. It has no AESA radar available for the trials, it had the poorest A2G or multi role capabilities of all fighters, the AESA radar will hardly be ready in time and most of the upgrades are only available on paper or prototype varients. So on the one hand we have the Rafale than can do anything IAF wants it to do even today and on the other side we have the EF, which is mainly expected to be good when all upgrades are developed and tested.

Where did you get that from?Care to back it up with anything as I am stuck here thinking how the Rafale camp threatened to walk out on us on hearing rumors that their bird got the axe.After all,Rafales do get the axe everywhere they showed up contesting and boy are they sore losers if ever there was one. All sources point toward the Eurofighter being the robust air superiority fighter as it is.

INDIAISM · Dec 24, 2011

illusion8 said:
Leke achaar dalna hai kya

Nhi Su 30MKI ke haato J10 ki chutney bnane ki Recipe Banani hai.....

On Topic: May the Aircraft with better A to G capabilty win....

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