Death toll rises to 37 in India caste rioting

[Tiki Tam Tam]

These Gujjar agitation is not a Caste riot.

It is an agitation is a demand that the Gujjars, who are OBCs (Other Backward Castes) be lowered in the caste hierarchy that what they are!!

Everyone agrees that the caste system is the worst thing that could happen and how it is despicable.

And While everyone in the world wants to have a respectable position in society, here are the Gujjars who demand that they be given lower status in this despicable system of caste!!!!

Can one believe this? Does it mean that the caste system is a great thing and lower your caste, the better?

The answer is yes - in India. The sops and advantages of being lower the caste are indeed alluring, notwithstanding the opinion of deriders who claim that there is oppression to be of the lower caste. Or else, why should anyone want to desire to demean his himself, by accepting to be of lower status than what the despicable caste system accords them.

Christianity and Islam is said to have nothing like a caste system. And that is why the lower castes converted to Islam and Christianity, for not only that it gave them social standing, but also it gave economic advantage since they were the rulers at points of history and thus could dish out largess to enlarge their followers, apart from other reasons.

And now that the Indian Constitution and Laws are heavily in favour of the OBCs and Dalits guaranteeing the largess that the British and Islamic rulers gave their followers, especially those who converted, there is the clamour to be lower than what one is.

It is no longer about caste or caste system, it is all about garnering the maximum benefits economic and social without any regards for meritocracy!!

That is why there is a demand also that there be sops and quotas for Dalit Christians and Dalit Islamic followers!!

Imagine that!! Dalit Christians and Dalit Islamic folks, when the religions have no such nomenclature!!

Important religious leaders of the Islamic faith and Christianity have demanded so. Most important being none other than Mother Teresa herself!!

The govt also uses it as a political weapon and as an instrument for vote bank politics. Arjun Singh, Education and HRD Minister has recently used it recently to give reservation to OBCs and SC/ST in educational institutes like the AIMS, IITs, Business Schools. Was he really concerned for these people? I wonder. He was using it as a weapon against his own Party members who had upstaged him from the Gandhian family and Congress hierarchy!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Logic note for heaven sake when the elite brahmans will learn to accept that cast system is there only in Hinduism.


There is big difference between social discrimination and something Hindu Cast system which is protected by the Hindu religion or faith.

there is no such thing in China or Pakistan.

Had you seen if anyone was stopped from worship at a certain worship place in China or Pakistan due to his cast ??

Jana.

Read. There is no shortcut to knowledge.

Caste system is social discrimination.

There is nothing like elite Brahminism. It is no longer valid. Brahmins are now on the streets. Having visited Tamilnady, haven't you seen that? Have you not seen Karunanidhi's clout? The DMK and AIDMK's power?

In Malaysia, I was not allowed into the Blue Mosque being a non Islamic person! I wrote to Badawi and I am still to hear from him.

Can I go to Mecca? Will I be allowed near the Kaaba? I eat pork apart from not being of the Islamic faith.

Here is something from Encylopedia Britannica:

Islamic society
In South Asian Muslim society a distinction is made between the ashraf (Arabic, plural of sharif, “nobleman&#8221, who are supposedly descendants of Muslim Arab immigrants, and the non-ashraf, who are Hindu converts. The ashraf group is further divided into four subgroups: (1) Sayyids, originally a designation of descendants of...
ashraf (Islamic caste group) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


There are too many man made divides in all religions and that is what I find astonishing!!

 

[Flintlock]

Chinese caste system? Couldn’t you refrain from entertaining us more?

Responding to your funny troll, indeed there were made-in-India and imported-from-India caste system in Tibet right up to 1959, until Communists came to banished it. These ridiculous systems are now all down to the history drainage in China, whereas the most notorious one in India still flourishes.

According to you, democracy is the panacea. Why 60 year democracy in India, your democratic constituents show no interest in abolishing the ugly caste system, whereas Chinese communists trashed that just in years?

That's because, thank goodness, India never had to undergo the hell-on-earth called Cultural Revolution.

In India, things move slower, word spreads slower, because there's no central authority to massacre the dissidents.

So you do things your way, we do it our way.

A human society is by nature hierarchic. However, a good society allows people to move around among different levels of hierarchy. A bad one stipulates a fixed hierarchy for a person due to a birth out of his own control.

Are you saying you know your caste system better, so let it be there? It surprises no more when I saw articles by some Indian elites arguing that caste system is very scientific and human. Please tell us more the celestial virtue of the caste system.

Look, we now know that the caste system is bad way of organizing society.

However, the people who did believe in rebirth and the cycle of Karma, didn't see anything evil about the caste system. We are all humans, and all upper-caste Hindus weren't "evil" till 60 years ago.

There are indeed ways of justifying the caste system, within the beliefs of those times, which make the caste system look perfectly fair.

Obviously, I will not get into the details in this thread, but I hope you get my point.

Think of it this way, the world thinks the Chinese system is inhuman, whereas the Chinese think its wonderful. Obviously, there's something different about the perception.

BTW, I like Bai Yang’s book <The Ugly Chinese>, it summarized the bad points of Chinese culture. Only recognizing and tackling its weak points, can a nation move forward to achieve better. Whereas, Gordon Chang who predicted China’s doom day decades ago and is probably worshiped by you as a hero, will never stop disappointing you in a professional way.

Hinduism has been criticized and has undergone several reformation movements for the last centuries.
However, for better of worse, Indians don't believe in wiping out whoever disagrees with them, so change is slower.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Don't forget the Great Leap Forward.

It is also an important event.

The Southern and Northern Dynasties showed such a high level of polarization between North and South that northerners and southerners referred to each other as barbarians; the Mongol Yuan Dynasty also made use of the concept: Yuan subjects were divided into four castes, with northern Han Chinese occupying the second-lowest caste and southern Han Chinese occupying the lowest one.

Traditional Yi society in Yunnan was caste based. People were split into the Black Yi (nobles, 5&#37; of the population), White Yi (commoners), Ajia (33% of the Yi population) and the Xiaxi (10%). Ajia and Xiaxi were slave castes. The White Yi were not slaves but had no freedom of movement. The Black Yi were famous for their slave-raids on Han Chinese communities. After the 1959 some 700,000 slaves were freed.

But of course, all this is not taught in the Glorious Era of Peasants and Workers since it would be an embarrassment.

 

[EagleEyes]

There is no such things as Hindu caste system in Islam. Wrong choice of words there..nothing more.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Caste is nothing but social and economic divides.

All religions and cultures have the social and economic divides.

 

[vish]

The problem with starting such threads is that sooner or later they turn into India/Pakistan bashing brawls.

Yes 37 people have died; it is unfortunate; caste system does exist in India; is it paling day by day, as a general trend, yes.

End of story, nothing more to argue. Because the only way caste system can be uprooted from the Indian society, is the slow process of education and cumulative increase in prosperity.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana. Read. There is no shortcut to knowledge

Yes dear Sir there is no shortcut to knowledge specially when one don&#8217;t have even after having done with a high profile job.

Caste system is social discrimination.

Cast system in Hinduism is based and protected in the religion aimed at protecting the Brahmans by socially discriminating the low-cast hindus.

There is nothing like elite Brahminism. It is no longer valid. Brahmins are now on the streets. Having visited Tamilnady, haven't you seen that? Have you not seen Karunanidhi's clout? The DMK and AIDMK's power?

Being Brahman in itself means being an elite among millions of dalits in India.
And Sir as far Tamilnadu is concerned, there prevails a sense of hate for the Brahmans even people there claim that Brahmans have snatched their god. They think major gods belong to South India but the Brahmans have become custodians of these gods and these Brahmans are the ones who have included some rituals in the Puja (prayer in Hinduism) just to present these gods&#8217; images as larger than life just to create impress the common people so that they can carry on their own agenda.

In Malaysia, I was not allowed into the Blue Mosque being a non Islamic person! I wrote to Badawi and I am still to hear from him.

I don&#8217;t know why they did not allow you to enter the mosque in Malaysia as there is no bar on entering of any non-Muslim in any of the mosques around the world.

Any Muslim can enter a mosque in any Muslim country of the world hence I dont believe your claim.

Can I go to Mecca? Will I be allowed near the Kaaba? I eat pork apart from not being of the Islamic faith.

Yes you can go to Mecca and Kaaba and there is no bar on entering of anyone from any other religion.
Islam is very open to anyone who wants to understand with an open heart and mind .

Its only hindusim in India where if any non-Muslim enters a temple the food is destroyed just by saying that it was polluted due to entering of non-Hindu in the temple.

Here is something from Encylopedia Britannica:

Islamic society
In South Asian Muslim society a distinction is made between the ashraf (Arabic, plural of sharif, &#8220;nobleman&#8221, who are supposedly descendants of Muslim Arab immigrants, and the non-ashraf, who are Hindu converts. The ashraf group is further divided into four subgroups: (1) Sayyids, originally a designation of descendants of...
ashraf (Islamic caste group) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


There are too many man made divides in all religions and that is what I find astonishing!!

Again you same old propaganda statement without presenting the truth I knew you post it again as you did on other forums and threads in the past.


So let clear your false statement because

There is no cast system in Islam unlike Hinudism.
In Islam all are equal no one has any preference over others. All Muslims pray at the same mosque there is no discrimination.
And for your kind information Muslim don&#8217;t follow what a Encylopedia Britannica say.
Muslims follows beliefs which are well &#8211;defined in Quran and Sunnah and there is not even one single worse which says there is any cast system or casts itself in Islam.

Come up with one single verse from Quran to support whatever you said. If you are honest enough and if you can. If not than I would say it would be a shame for highly intellectual person to supports stinking cast system in Hinduism by telling lies about Islam.

And one more thing even even even even if one believe your propaganda about existence of what you called ashraf or non-ashrafs (which dosnt exist at all in Islam) even then no one is barred from performing religious duties in Islam nor any Muslim is given preference in any of the ritual.

And BTW Sir can you tell me what is the criteria in Hindusim for selection of pundit (hindu religious leader) ??????

 

[shrivatsa]

Being Brahman in itself means being an elite among millions of dalits in India.
And Sir as far Tamilnadu is concerned, there prevails a sense of hate for the Brahmans even people there claim that Brahmans have snatched their god. They think major gods belong to South India but the Brahmans have become custodians of these gods and these Brahmans are the ones who have included some rituals in the Puja (prayer in Hinduism) just to present these gods’ images as larger than life just to create impress the common people so that they can carry on their own age[/COLOR]

So you think that brahmins are from north india????????

 

[Logic note]

Cast system in Hinduism is based and protected in the religion aimed at protecting the Brahmans by socially discriminating the low-cast hindus.[/COLOR]

Discrimination based on any ground is wrong .. wether it is caste or Religion ..(why do you ignore the religios discrimination )
secondly its a social problem and not a religious problem ..

Yes you can go to Mecca and Kaaba and there is no bar on entering of anyone from any other religion.
Islam is very open to anyone who wants to understand with an open heart and mind .

Again you same old propaganda statement without presenting the truth I knew you post it again as you did on other forums and threads in the past.

lol may be you are not aware about your own religion . non muslims are not allowed in Makkah

Islamic Voice - DHU'L QADAH / DHU'L HAJJ

There is no cast system in Islam unlike Hinudism.
In Islam all are equal no one has any preference over others. All Muslims pray at the same mosque there is no discrimination.
And for your kind information Muslim don’t follow what a Encylopedia Britannica say.
Muslims follows beliefs which are well –defined in Quran and Sunnah and there is not even one single worse which says there is any cast system or casts itself in Islam.

Come up with one single verse from Quran to support whatever you said. If you are honest enough and if you can. If not than I would say it would be a shame for highly intellectual person to supports stinking cast system in Hinduism by telling lies about Islam.

And one more thing even even even even if one believe your propaganda about existence of what you called ashraf or non-ashrafs (which dosnt exist at all in Islam) even then no one is barred from performing religious duties in Islam nor any Muslim is given preference in any of the ritual.

Islam treats non muslims as out caste and second grade citizens ..
forgot blasphemy law? Islamic societies are discriminating in nature ..

 

[Spring Onion]

Discrimination based on any ground is wrong .. wether it is caste or Religion ..(why do you ignore the religios discrimination )
secondly its a social problem and not a religious problem .. ..

that is what i am saying which you do not want to understand that in Hinduism the cast system is based in the religion which leads to the social as well as religious discrimination against poor low cast Hindus even after passage of hunderds of years.

lol may be you are not aware about your own religion . non muslims are not allowed in Makkah

Islamic Voice - DHU'L QADAH / DHU'L HAJJ

I am not at all i know what i am saying go and asked anyone or read Quran and Hadith there is no order for restricting non-Muslims from entering Makkah.
The quote of the Zakir Naik which you had posted is out of context and misinterpreted by you here. Even than if you read what he said it is prohibited by "LAW" now a sane person can well understand law by whom?Certainly the Saudi Arab Government not by Islam.

So my dear logicy you had to respect and obey the laws of any other country when you enter that country.

Islam treats non muslims as out caste and second grade citizens ..
forgot blasphemy law? Islamic societies are discriminating in nature ..

second grade citizens??? care to explain.
As far blasphemy law well again you need some brain to diffrentiate between a law of a country and Islamic codes or what Islam says.

There is no law in Quran which is called blasphemy law nor the Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) of Allah ever practice such law while he was alive.

Rather it is well known to the historians that there was a Hindu women who used to tease the Prophet (PBUH) by throwing dirt and gobar (the S.hit of cow) on him whenever the Prophet (PBUH) used to pass by the street where the house of that Hindu women was located. But he never said anything against her rather one day when the Prophet (PBUH) was passing the same street and no dirt was thrown on him, he was worried that the Hindu women might have some problem so she did not trun up for throwing dirt on him.
Afterwards when the Prophet (PBUH) came to know that she was ill he went to enquire after her health.

 

[ddrbdgzy]

Caste system and Untouchablity is different . This social hirarchy and discrimination is also prevelant in China and Pakistan .

i am a chinese, i do not think there exists Caste system and social hirarchy in china. but what you said is only bias and faking, in the past feudalism, it is so indeed ,however, since foundation of PRC in 1949, all chinese people are au pair, there is only the difference of wealth and poor, but not existence of Caste system and social hirarchy.

 

[ddrbdgzy]

however, it is unfortunatly for the death of people, god bless.

 

[Flintlock]

I am not at all i know what i am saying go and asked anyone or read Quran and Hadith there is no order for restricting non-Muslims from entering Makkah.
The quote of the Zakir Naik which you had posted is out of context and misinterpreted by you here. Even than if you read what he said it is prohibited by "LAW" now a sane person can well understand law by whom?Certainly the Saudi Arab Government not by Islam.

So my dear logicy you had to respect and obey the laws of any other country when you enter that country.

Oh that is just too convenient.

second grade citizens??? care to explain.
As far blasphemy law well again you need some brain to diffrentiate between a law of a country and Islamic codes or what Islam says.

There is no law in Quran which is called blasphemy law nor the Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) of Allah ever practice such law while he was alive.

Do you seriously think that we're gonna buy that?

Rather it is well known to the historians that there was a Hindu women who used to tease the Prophet (PBUH) by throwing dirt and gobar (the S.hit of cow) on him whenever the Prophet (PBUH) used to pass by the street where the house of that Hindu women was located. But he never said anything against her rather one day when the Prophet (PBUH) was passing the same street and no dirt was thrown on him, he was worried that the Hindu women might have some problem so she did not trun up for throwing dirt on him.
Afterwards when the Prophet (PBUH) came to know that she was ill he went to enquire after her health.

Wow...I had no idea that the Prophet Himself went to India.

Where do you get these fairy tales?

And you call yourself a journalist?

 

[Spring Onion]

Oh that is just too convenient.



Do you seriously think that we're gonna buy that??

Hinduism is based on discriminatory cast-system and its a pitty that instead of speaking against it Indians like you stoop to lies and propoganda.

And i dont care whether you buy it or not but the entire world knows all Muslims bow to One Allah and there is no cast system unlike hindusim.
simple as that.

Wow...I had no idea that the Prophet Himself went to India.

Where do you get these fairy tales?

And you call yourself a journalist?

pitty on your intellectualism this time.

do you think non-Muslims lived only in India