DCN launches design work for Pakistan submarine

[Kaiser]

DCN launches design work for Pakistan submarine

French naval shipbuilding, combat systems and engineering group DCN is reported to have commenced initial design activity on a new conventional submarine type to be offered to Pakistan in the wake of India's acquisition of six Scorpene submarines from Armaris (a DCN/Thales joint venture) in late 2005.

According to a report in the Paris-based business daily newspaper La Tribune, Pakistan has indicated a requirement for up to five boats. It is understood that the design being developed by DCN, designated Marlin, would draw on much of the technology previously developed for the export-oriented Scorpene programme.

...

It is understood that the Pakistan Navy, which decommissioned all four of its ageing Hangor-class submarines on 2 January, is now planning to acquire three to five additional modern boats for delivery from 2013-14.

La Tribune reports that German (Howaldtswerke Deutsche-Werft) and Spanish (Navantia) submarine builders have also been asked to submit proposals to meet the requirement.

...

La Tribune said that DCN has yet to receive formal authority from the French government to offer the Marlin submarine to Pakistan. It added that most applications by French companies to supply weapons to Pakistan are being vetoed at present by the government's high-level defence sales panel - the Commission Interministerielle pour l'Etude des Exportations de Materiels de Guerre - on the grounds that such sales could heighten tensions between Islamabad and New Delhi. A DCN spokesman declined to comment on the La Tribune report, noting only that it was "highly premature".

 

[EagleEyes]

Now they are starting to make me pissed when they are adding that the tensions could be rise again. Everytime whenever Pakistan goes to purchase something, they get a freaking excuse, why dont they see the build of India? Retirement of all the Hangor class subs? Order of 12 Scorpene subs? Induction of 3 nuclear submarines on lease?

Are they freaking smoking or what?

 

[Sid]

These are still unconfirmed reports.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Ahsan F@Jan 31 2006, 12:04 AM
Now they are starting to make me pissed when they are adding that the tensions could be rise again. Everytime whenever Pakistan goes to purchase something, they get a freaking excuse, why dont they see the build of India? Retirement of all the Hangor class subs? Order of 12 Scorpene subs? Induction of 3 nuclear submarines on lease?

Are they freaking smoking or what?

[post=5763]Quoted post[/post]​

Money money honey,thats all that counts for the french.

 

[Sid]

Yes, in defense circles, it is a common perception of the French industry that they would do 'anything' to get the order if the deal is worthwhile and pays off big time (in terms of profit).

 

[Tariq Iqbal]

But when there is a competition, for example Germany is offering its U Class submarines while now France is offering us with this newly designed and most likely upto our configuration submarines, this results in the benefit of the consumer. I hope more competition builds and in the end, Pakistan again gets the trasfer of technology.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Tariq Iqbal@Feb 24 2006, 07:57 AM
But when there is a competition, for example Germany is offering its U Class submarines while now France is offering us with this newly designed and most likely upto our configuration submarines, this results in the benefit of the consumer. I hope more competition builds and in the end, Pakistan again gets the trasfer of technology.

[post=6175]Quoted post[/post]​

Thats one way of looking at it.

Another way is,

french sells you Agostas and then calls up Singh and says " see they have the agostas,why dont you take the scorpenes?" and india obliges and then they call mushraff back and say "now what?they have scorpenes why dont you buy a new one from us" and mushi obliges and then again chirac calls up singh and says "wht now?" and then india says ok (?).

 

[Sid]

They don't have to take the trouble of calling. Thats what lobbyists are for. Plus the information regarding what your rival has procured is already available to your intelligence agencies.

Anyways, if you look at it, its not just France, but everyone who is taking the arms race in South Asia to the next level step by step in offering sophisticated weapons systems to both sides.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 24 2006, 07:49 PM
They don't have to take the trouble of calling. Thats what lobbyists are for. Plus the information regarding what your rival has procured is already available to your intelligence agencies.

Anyways, if you look at it, its not just France, but everyone who is taking the arms race in South Asia to the next level step by step in offering sophisticated weapons systems to both sides.

[post=6197]Quoted post[/post]​

i wasnt mocking anybody,thats whats happening.i was just trying to reflect that.
even we wud have done that if we had a mature defence industry.

 

[Sid]

Well depends on which side of the fence one wants to be on. There are certain countries with good arms export laws which means they just don't sell because they want to sell and make money.

 

[VisionHawk]

It is understood that the Pakistan Navy, which decommissioned all four of its ageing Hangor-class submarines on 2 January, is now planning to acquire three to five additional modern boats for delivery from 2013-14.

Hangor class subs were also french subs?

 

[Sid]

Yes they are. They're the Daphne Class subs renamed by PN to Hangor Class.

 

[Tiger Shark]

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 21 2006, 05:06 AM
These are still unconfirmed reports.

[post=5968]Quoted post[/post]​

French cut for navy on sub deal

Josy Joseph
Sunday, February 19, 2006 02:25 IST

NEW DELHI: If all goes well for French arms manufacturer DCN, it would be building Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy and a new-generation submarine for Pakistan, side by side in the same shipyard.

This scenario has caused alarm in the Indian security establishment, which is looking at ways to convey its concern to France as President Jacques Chirac arrives in New Delhi on Sunday evening for a three-day visit. Though the navy is reluctant to go on record, a senior officer said, “We will put forth our concerns.”

DCN’s audacity in approaching the Pakistan Navy and offering a new generation of submarines within months of sealing the Rs13,000 crore Scorpene deal with India has not gone down well with New Delhi.

Defence experts are keenly watching the upcoming visit of a Pakistani naval delegation, led by an admiral-rank officer, to the DCN shipyard at Cherbourg, where work on the Scorpenes has begun.

The navy says there is not much it can do in the matter as both are “commercial deals” and cannot be prevented on any technical grounds. But it says it is “unethical” of DCN to have approached Pakistan so soon after closing the deal with India, and hopes Paris will prevent it from closing the deal.

But such hopes may not amount to much. Uttam Datt, a Delhi high court advocate specialising in commercial litigation, said, “An exclusivity clause is very common in all commercial negotiations, more so in this kind of a contract, where the whole objective is to get superiority over your adversary. That advantage is lost if your adversary gets access to the same equipment.”

Datt said that unless he saw the contract, he would not be able to comment on the success of the navy’s negotiators in inserting an exclusivity clause. “But on the face of it, the navy could have technically stopped DCN from supplying similar kind of machines to Pakistan at least for some time,” he said.

DCN is no stranger to Pakistan, having supplied three Agosta 90B submarines to the country under a contract signed in 1994.

The first of the Agosta class submarines was built in the same Cherbourg shipyard. The remaining two were being assembled in Karachi when 11 French engineers working on the project were killed in a terrorist attack in May 2002.

 

[Sid]

First of all your post risks deletion if you fail to provide a link/source of that information.

I've read this newspiece before on other forums and I would still say it is an unconfirmed report as this is the only story going around about it. Nothing has come up from any credible military websites or publications.

 

[Bull]

tiger shark articles are well formated and wordings look like magazine material,but surprsingly no links...