Data link capability of IAF

[shaheenmissile]

Simple question here. Can SU-30 Or any IAF plane talk directly to Phalcon AWACS?

 

[Norwegian]

Simple question here. Can SU-30 Or any IAF plane talk directly to Phalcon AWACS?

Not sure but according to my little knowledge only Israel has built such native systems with data link capabilities between all branches of defense establishments. @500

 

[shaheenmissile]

Not sure but according to my little knowledge only Israel has built such native systems with data link capabilities between all branches of defense establishments. @500

PAF jets can talk to PAF AWACS.
But i couldnt find anything about IAF jets capable of Talking to Phalcons,their only AWACS working right now.

 

[Norwegian]

PAF jets can talk to PAF AWACS.
But i couldnt find anything about IAF jets capable of Talking to Phalcons,their only AWACS working right now.

The system must be such that it should be possible to communicate with ALL branches of defense establishment during wartime as well as peace.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

IAF will take a giant leap in its quest to have an advanced networked warfare capability (NCW) when Air Force Net (AFNET), the system's backbone, will become operational in 10 days from now.

"We will be dedicating the AFNET, the backbone of IAF's network centric warfare capability, on September 14," a senior IAF official told PTI in New Delhi today.

AFNET or Air Force Net is a fibre optic-based network on which the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) of the IAF would ride.

Once AFNET is enabled, the IAF would rapidly link all its ground, air and space assets to have a complete situational awareness of the area it wants to secure and dominate.

IACCS will provide connectivity for all the airborne platforms and ground platforms as part of IAF's network centricity and enables real-time transfer of voice, data and images among aircraft, satellites and ground bases.

"Network centricity involves linking ground, air, and space assets together so as to have complete situational awareness.

"And what does it provide? A real-time sensor-to-shooter loop, which enables IAF commanders to take instant decisions even as information is shared among platforms and personnel to order the weapons to be deployed," the officer said, explaining the concept.

"NCW is vital. You cannot survive today for long against a good adversary without the NCW capability," he added.

Pioneered by the US department of defence, NCW relies on computer processing power and networking communications technology to provide shared information of the battle space among armed forces.

This shared awareness increases synergy for command and control, resulting in superior decision- making, and the ability to coordinate complex military operations over long distances for an overwhelming war-fighting advantage.

IAF had got delivery of the Israeli Phalcon airborne early warning and control system (AWACS) -- the air link in its AFNET -- last year.

The AWACS, a major force multiplier, will provide the IAF an eye in the skies providing advance information as enemy fighter planes takes off, giving enough time for IAF to scramble its own fighter jets to counter them.

India had in March 2004 signed an $1.1 billion deal with Israel for three AWACS mounted on Russian-made IL-76 heavy lift transport aircraft. Another three AWACS are expected to join the fleet for which orders would be placed soon.

India is also developing its own AWACS on the Embraer platform and is likely to get three of them as well.

AFNET to boost IAF's network centric warfare capability | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[shaheenmissile]

So that means no coms between sukhoi and Phalcon directly?
All coms via ground stations?

 

[MilSpec]

Simple question here. Can SU-30 Or any IAF plane talk directly to Phalcon AWACS?

IAF combat platforms are fully horizontally networked, SU 30MKI, Jaguars, Mig21's, Mig 27M, Mirage 2000H, LCA, Mig29M/UPG/K/KUB, and AJT, all can share target data with Phalcon, Su30MKI and other Sigint platforms in India.

As a matter of fact IAF platforms can have a complete independence from ground stations as a communication redundancy that was developed especially for absorbing ground losses.

So that means no coms between sukhoi and Phalcon directly?
All coms via ground stations?

In fact PAF is at a disadvantage where Chinese awacs cannot communicate with F16's without ground stations and Chinese aircrafts cannot communicate with Saab systems without ground link. Unlike IAF where Phalcon, MKI and Sigint platforms can communicate with all combat platforms that is not only share targeting data but also monitor and control active homing for missiles shot from other platforms .

With Afnet, vertical integration of battlefield management will be even more comprehensive, that is Three dimensional tracking and realtime airspace conditions monitored from Ground, space and Air, will give the exact picture of all platforms in air during any contingency and switch between monitoring sources to absorb damages to tracking sources.
The impetus is to ensure a net centric system with multiple redundancies in communication, active and passive tracking, I stress on redundancies because who ever is able to hold a battlefield management system despite taking the initial blows will be the one to hold out in the end.

@Dillinger, @sancho

 

[shaheenmissile]

^^^ Load of bull.
There is no cross platform communication in IAF. Phalcons cannot talk to Sukhoi directly, . Sukhoi can talk to each other though.
Thats why thay made this ground network,transmitting data to different platforms via ground stations.
I searched and failed to find any evidence of what you say. But if you have links,plz post.

 

[Genesis]

In fact PAF is at a disadvantage where Chinese awacs cannot communicate with F16's without ground stations and Chinese aircrafts cannot communicate with Saab systems without ground link. Unlike IAF where Phalcon, MKI and Sigint platforms can communicate with all combat platforms that is not only share targeting data but also monitor and control active homing for missiles shot from other platforms .

Pretty sure, the whatever it's called, the Pakistan AEW was built with JF-17 in mind, not F-16 and thus not being able to communicate with it, if that is indeed the case, is irrelevant.

 

[MilSpec]

Pretty sure, the whatever it's called, the Pakistan AEW was built with JF-17 in mind, not F-16 and thus not being able to communicate with it, if that is indeed the case, is irrelevant.

Was the AEW built for Jf17 or for PAF? It's ridiculous not have the capability to build a platform centric Awacs system.
the real problem here is US not allowing F16 to be accesed by China to adopt it to share data with Chinese AWACS, and thier fears are not unwarranted.

In India's case Phalcon AWACS, and SU30MKI both comm systems were tailor made to ensure inter communication with all IAF platforms.

 

[Genesis]

Was the AEW built for Jf17 or for PAF? It's ridiculous not have the capability to build a platform centric Awacs system.
the real problem here is US not allowing F16 to be accesed by China to adopt it to share data with Chinese AWACS, and thier fears are not unwarranted.

In India's case Phalcon AWACS, and SU30MKI both comm systems were tailor made to ensure inter communication with all IAF platforms.

It was built for PAF, which still operates American made fighters. I'm not saying Pakistan will go all Chinese, but I am saying all future jets Pakistan will have a say in it's design and manufacturing which means the AEW was procured today in limited capability, but will be able to see further action down the line.

Even aside from that JF-17 is the frontline fighter for Pakistan, and these numbers will go to some 200? It's a very reasonable proposition that it would work for JF-17.

Let's also not forget, we haven't established that ZDK-something will only work for JF-17, just I don't have any links that points to one way or the other and having no expertise in this particular field, I can't say for sure either way.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Trishul blog mentions Israeli Tadiran spectralink to be fitted in SU-30 MKI for being able to make coms with Phalcon
. But was it actually done or not?

 

[Dillinger]

^^^ Load of bull.
There is no cross platform communication in IAF. Phalcons cannot talk to Sukhoi directly, . Sukhoi can talk to each other though.
Thats why thay made this ground network,transmitting data to different platforms via ground stations.
I searched and failed to find any evidence of what you say. But if you have links,plz post.

IAF platforms operate on ODL, the Phalcons can "talk" to the Sukhois and any other platform with ODL, including the IN's 29Ks (Datalink-2). In fact during the recent TROPEX the IAF's and the IN's jets did just that.

The "ground-network" or the AFNET has not been commissioned due to the reasons you have attributed to it. The AFNET is meant for high speed and secure data sharing for the C2/C4I nodes as it serves as the IACCCS's backbone.

The folks on the ground need the complete battle-space picture, and unlike the Sukhois they can't go around using ODL of link-2 for comm., so the IACCCS is used for building that picture by connecting every sensor that IAF has (radars, gap-filler radars, aerostats, sats) together. Of course the airborne platforms feed the IACCCS too.

This is the primary reason that any SIGINT or ISTAR asset we develop or purchase come with the our own links and IFF (including the P-8Is for the IN).

@shaheenmissile Correction- the Phalcon operates with the older ODL which is inter-operable with the current gen of datalinks in operation.

 

[shaheenmissile]

Guys you are forgetting that Link 16 used by western platforms is just a set of rules and specs. Not a hardware or even not a software.
Anyone who has those set of rules can write software and build hatdware for coms with link 16 enabled platforms and PAF did just that.

 

[Dillinger]

Guys you are forgetting that Link 16 used by western platforms is just a set of rules and specs. Not a hardware or even not a software.
Anyone who has those set of rules can write software and build hatdware for coms with link 16 enabled platforms and PAF did just that.

PAF does not have access to F-16's comm. gear source codes, neither do most nations which employ it. This of course does not mean that the PAF cannot and will not develop alternate comm. measures, as it has in the past.