Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[MANDEEP SINGH]

hello everyone !
i am new to this forum.I am not experienced (jst in my college)as some guys here are..but I am vry much interested in defence sector.I have some querries.
1. As an multirole aircraft is Mig 35 better the F16 block 60,F18 sh, Rafale, Typhoon with its 3d thrust vectoring engine and Zukh ae aesa radar with a range of 160 km....?
If we select Mig 35, will a MKI'ed version(like SU 30 MKI) will be better then others or not?
What I have read so far is that Mig 35 is also not expensive like Typhoon ....we can get 2 Mig 35 for each Typhoon...I know quality is very Imortant but quantity can play an impt role as our strength is going down.....
2.As an aircraft which one is better Rafale or Typhoon?
3.Can you plz tell the price per plane of all the contenders?
I am sorry if I asked a stupid question but i am new here and want to know more....
thanks in advance

 

[yashraj]

hello everyone !
i am new to this forum.I am not experienced (jst in my college)as some guys here are..but I am vry much interested in defence sector.I have some querries.
1. As an multirole aircraft is Mig 35 better the F16 block 60,F18 sh, Rafale, Typhoon with its 3d thrust vectoring engine and Zukh ae aesa radar with a range of 160 km....?
If we select Mig 35, will a MKI'ed version(like SU 30 MKI) will be better then others or not?
What I have read so far is that Mig 35 is also not expensive like Typhoon ....we can get 2 Mig 35 for each Typhoon...I know quality is very Imortant but quantity can play an impt role as our strength is going down.....
2.As an aircraft which one is better Rafale or Typhoon?
3.Can you plz tell the price per plane of all the contenders?
I am sorry if I asked a stupid question but i am new here and want to know more....
thanks in advance

Hi MANDEEP......

Well come to the bord. We Required many youngster like you who are really intrested in the Defence sector...

some of your anwers.......
1) Yes you can buy 2 Mig 35 in the Cost of one Euro Fighter But In the Sky the thing really matter is Quality....
You can see the result of 1991 Gulf war where Saddam Has Qunt.. but USA have Quality of their Side and see what Happend.....
2)Quality wise Eurofighter is Batter then Rafel, but Logistic and TOT wise Rafel is Batter.......But You can Directly use the Engine in our LCA Mark-2(250). Our LCA mark 2 is 4++ Generation fighter Able to Do Super Cruse and With Trust Vactoring And Lower RCA with AESA radar it's hell of a fighter at 30M $.
So you Can compair the prise of EF this Way.....
And ya EF Has Lowest Maintanance Price...

Sooooo JUST GO FOR THE EF(EURO FIGHTER)

 

[Haanzo]

^^^ get a life
1 please find out what really happened in gulf war - IN SHORT AWACS
2 who said rafale is gonna be better logistics wise ???? HOW ?? and how can lca supercruise - or what is the point of supercruising for a point defence fighter or an interceptor ??

please know some facts before posting

 

[yashraj]

^^^ get a life
1 please find out what really happened in gulf war - IN SHORT AWACS
2 who said rafale is gonna be better logistics wise ???? HOW ?? and how can lca supercruise - or what is the point of supercruising for a point defence fighter or an interceptor ??

please know some facts before posting

Sir ji please calm down............

1) In the opening night of the gulf War F15 shot down many of the Saddams Migs.... and they didn't loss any F15......

2) Without Super cruse any Fighter can not Fly Supersonic CONTINUASLY............. Jets are useing their AFTER BURNER for Short Perioud of Time. And This Supercruse ability Really help Our Fighter to Reach Their target Vary fast(For point Defence) and Going to Enemy teretory Fast and After attach come to home fast Super sonically without use of After burner(That means less fule burn and vary less heat signature for heat seaking Missile) help for Strick roal...

3) We can directly use engine of Euro fighter for Our Tejas mark-2, and get following Ability
* Great and Realiable Engine.
* Super Cruse ability(Because >1 trust to Weight ratio)
* Trust vactoring Capability (Which really Help in Dog fight)

Please correct me if i am wrong.....

Thank you Sir ji.

3)

 

[saurav]

best way imo--
divide the vendors---
EURO FIGHTER--~120-130
SUPER HORNET-- ~100

feel free to disagree

 

[yashraj]

best way imo--
divide the vendors---
EURO FIGHTER--~120-130
SUPER HORNET-- ~100

feel free to disagree

That's not good thing yaar..............

Two diff plane that means double logistic cost, double spare and maintanance cost and if we test our nuclear bomb then america will stop the support of spairs...........

My Choise is buy 200 EF become patner in it and also use its Thrust Vactoring Engine For Our 4++ Generation Plane TEJAS(250+)...


That's really Good Choise....... Feel free to disagree.....

 

[jha]

imho buying sh will have a commonality between air-force and navy..because navy also needs ~40 aircrafts for its own needs...

 

[AVIAN]

In my opinion, IAF should certainly go for F-16 Block 70, since it is the only jet that can sufficiently cover all IAF specification of light weight catagory fighter jet coupled with AESA alongwith unmatched kind of a Armoury.

 

[yashraj]

In my opinion, IAF should certainly go for F-16 Block 70, since it is the only jet that can sufficiently cover all IAF specification of light weight catagory fighter jet coupled with AESA alongwith unmatched kind of a Armoury.

NO..........
That's really Bed Idia.........
1) It's vary old Air Craft. Ya it's new block of F 16..... But It's Really Old Air Craft......

2) Pakistan Air Force Alrealy Operate it.... In fect They are operating them From Last 4 decade, So they Know This air craft vary well,.... In fect they know this air craft as good as any USA Pilot do.

3) For IAF Even MIG 35 is batter choice then F 16.

But My personal openioun Go for Euro Fighter Or my secound choice is Rafel. But If i Know Indian Goverment then Winner of this cometion is F 18 Super Hornet

 

[SSGPA1]

I see that most of the Indians want to go for teh EU tech. I think your MRCA decision will have a lot of politics involved in it.

First if you annoy Russia then Russia will annoy you by improving their military terms with Pakistan. I don't think India is willing to lose that leverage with Russia.

Second, USA has been investing in the Indian economy for a while now and actually prepared the Indian ecomnomy to support the US economy , specifically the defence industry. Economy and defence industry are at low right now in the US and India will play its role in the revival of the US economy.

I believe that MRCA will be used by the GoI to increase its influence in the US and to maintain its influence in Russia. End result will be a mix of fighter jets and some ToT. It will be a pain (waste to a certain extent) in the military terms but a gain in the political terms.

 

[Dash]

Hi All -
I have been reading this forum for last 1 year and i really respect you guys out there for your dedication, committment and most of all knowledge.

Regarding the MRCA deal. here I submit my first openion.
Lets see what options we have.
IMO India as a country is currently in a phase where it needs the best available systems in the world to keep up with our growing geo-political situation and most importantly our internal needs for indigenisation. As we know that our military tech scetor is not that advanced when compared west or atleast china in terms of R&D and implimentation (feel free to disagree), we in this MRCA deal (The think tanks and dicision makers) will be trying to get a system where they can
A. test multiple platforms and see what best can be done done to match up.
B. The best to offer us help in terms of TOT and enhance our capability to support our efforts to become self suffecient.

IMO, being self suffecient is the MOST important thing that our decision makers will be thinking of.
So in this case the platform which can secure us with technology should be the most favored one along with political advantage of getting more as a spin off and securing future deals.
Now coming to this I would say we have all the contendors have the same thing.
A. US - though has guaranteed to meet 50% offset, but we dont know what is the 50%, if key tech then fine if not then no use. here comes the factor of trust which we dont have on US.
B. EF consortium- They have cleared the transfer of Key tech to India if the plane wins the BID.
C. France - Now close to develop the Kaveri engine with DRDO.
D. Russia - Same as US and EF consortium.

However a lot of people say that one that wins the DRDO contract for Tejas engine will win the MRCA. However I see this deal is for for some engines to make tejas Mk2 and in future like we all know these engines are just a stop gap check and will not be used instead Kaveri will be used for all the tejas fighters. I have some confident that this engine dream will come true as snechma along with P&W have said that kaveri has potential to become world class.
And Snechma has agreed to fit kaveri engine to Rafale.

France has been a strategic partner to India and supports UN seat for us, I know there are some issues cropping up due to its price for upgrading Mirages. However if Indian situation is concerned, this can be ignored as india can find a better country to upgrade this (israel) and this set back on French company can be compromised when Snechma develops the kaveri. I have a faith after Kaveri is on then this can take over entire Indian IAF fleet, now that its supposed power MCA. The current infrastructure we have with Mirage will go well with Rafale and its not a bad aircraft. French can be trusted with good TOT and this will keep us independent of any fear of sanctions too.

IMO all other contendors are providing short team solution but with this bird we have some future. i am sure rafale has impressed IAF and if its cost is concerned(which is a bit too high) but looking at the high end purchases india has made, like CJ-130 superhercules, P8I and possible globemaster, I think MOD can ignore the same and go ahead with this peice of bird..which is Rafale.

You never know Navy might opt for this too.......

Cheers
Dash

 

[deckingraj]

I see that most of the Indians want to go for teh EU tech. I think your MRCA decision will have a lot of politics involved in it.

There are many people who think that lot of politics is involved...However people just fail to acknowledge that this is the first defence procurement where an open tender with specifications and rigorous ground trial is taking place...As far as politics is concerned then yes whoever will give us a better deal will win providing the fighter jet have answers to all the major concerns that IAF has...

First if you annoy Russia then Russia will annoy you by improving their military terms with Pakistan. I don't think India is willing to lose that leverage with Russia.

Exactly these kind of remarks are often associated with MRCA...Why can't people understand MRCA is one of the defence deals that India is doing...Indian defence market is way too big...We are planning to spend around $40 Billion in just procurements alone over next 5 years...Secondly did you miss the 10 years arms pact with Russia that our PM signed in his recent trip???

Second, USA has been investing in the Indian economy for a while now and actually prepared the Indian ecomnomy to support the US economy , specifically the defence industry. Economy and defence industry are at low right now in the US and India will play its role in the revival of the US economy.

Kewl...so we are nothing but US puppets who are a platform to revive US economy???

I believe that MRCA will be used by the GoI to increase its influence in the US and to maintain its influence in Russia. End result will be a mix of fighter jets and some ToT. It will be a pain (waste to a certain extent) in the military terms but a gain in the political terms.

Indian think tanks are not kids...They use logic to come up with procurements....If mixing the jets will serve our purpose we will do that...However if we go by recent reports then IAF is not very inclined to do that...


P.S : It is not the final deal that GOI has made... It is not like people are saying give me this deal or face consequences.... $10 billion is quite a amount to be donated to someone...We will buy what suits us and not the other way....

 

[sarthak]

I have a feeling that we will be discussing this issue for a long , long time.

 

[Storm Force]

Russian Influence on Indian defense deals is absolutely HUGE.

mmrca is just a drop in the ocean.

PAK FA FGFA alone is worth $20billion over 20 years
Throw in nuke sub development aihant/akula new hyper sonic cruise missles
new ABM systems and new transport planes all of these are massive joint projects between india & russia.

mmrca is one of 40 different projects. AND WILL GO TO USA or Europe

 

[pakpower]

I have a feeling that F-18 SH will gonna win this tender.