I think you really mixing up too many things, last time the wiki points and now MMRCA with UAE. Rafale in MMRCA has one of the best T/W ratios, so doesn't need a new engine, or higher thrust. The offer to integrate the Kaveri is an additional advantage for India to customise it with our own engine. Not only that we can reduce costs by not licence producing a foreign engine, but we have total control over the engine and can develop further upgrades on our own too. That means we are not dependend on the upgrade solution the vendor gives us in future and can focuse the upgrade to our needs.
No bro... i havent..... let me ask you simple straight questions then??
First of all i am not Rafael basher.. I wish either EF or Rafael only win.. i like EF not as a plane because of offers and other benefits which we are enjoying with EADS.. they have been around us and are trying to take us a partner.... though of less level but it is good step alteast on long term in aviation... As for french i dont see that in that area..
As for the planes IAF will be able to operate any plane and customize it latter if they feel it is missing something... To say IAF has not rejected any plane ... they will be happy to use what ever they get... so simple so straight..
Coming to topic mine question will be
1) is Rafael underpowered?
2) If yes... dont we not need to fund for the development of powerful engine?
3)Kaveri Integration on Rafael looks good accepted... i like this one part... what else they have offered to us apart from this? .. As for kaveri they are not willing to give the core to us that is the IAF concern... do you have any info whether they will give core technology to us... And i am sure without core kaveri will be dumb?? doesnt it?.. I doubt on SCB technology transfer also...
The UAE instead as usual wants to customise their Rafale versions, that's why they demand higher thrust, improved radar and EWS, more weapon configs..., but that is their usual behavior, they customised and funded further upgrades at Mirage 2000, just like they did with the F16s before.
1)UAE was brought it discussion saying it is not interested in Rafael in current form thats all and France was not able to convert the deal...
The funny thing is, that you confuse the Mirage as a ground attack fighter, which was never its aim in IAF. It always served in air superiority roles and was used in Kargil in the strike role only, because our other fighters was not able to do it. Regarding EF and Rafale in A2A, please search in this thread, or google for the ATLC exercise and you will clearly change your mind.
I was not confused bro..
1) I just said if Ground Attack no no to EF or Rafael because F18 is good...
2) Not sure Rafael beats EF in A2A attack.. i think it is other way....
Any source will be great....
Most of it was reported often before, just like that the actual AESA that they now are going for is the Swashplate AESA Selex developed partly for the Gripen NG demonstrator. That has nothing to do with the initial AESA development for the EF, they just switched to reduce costs. Infact Germany was against it and wanted a fixed AESA, but the commonality to the Gripen NG development will reduce the R&D costs and UK/ITA and Selex pushed it through and still, till now the developmend is prefunded by the companies only, not by the partners. The companies already stated that they will deliver the early versions of the radar by 2015 only, but the way it goes with the EF, delays are more than likely.
IF AESA is that big concern we can bid good bye to all except Fteens... even Rafael will be no where near to them... As far as i know EF will have to provide AESA to IAF if chosen .. that is there in MMRCA Request... so EADS will have no option but to provide by begging or borrowing it from some one...
That exactly what I meant in my last post, the EF has already higher numbers, but still failed to reduce the costs to be cheaper than the Rafale, so on what basis can you say that future upgrades will be cheaper? Keep in mind that the costs are even about to rise, at the moment EF uses US Aim 120, which is cost-effective, but just like all Eurocanards, the EF will switch to METEOR when it is available.
Simple maths.... an example... When EADS announces a new generation cockpit deployment(development + manufacture) cost $5 billion and say 4 partners + india is interested..
it comes to 600 Fighter.. roughly 8.5 ^million
For France if new generation cockpit deployment (development + manufacture) cost $3 billion as of now France and India only can offered say roughly 300 fighter .. roughly 10 million...
What is your take on this?...
Yes EF is costly.... as i said earlier... EF has to quote below $10 billion to bag the order... i really doubt it will be L1 in MMRCA.. or i am wrong on this ? will it be only L1?
Once again, France is a EU country, which means they have the same restrictions, or do you forget that Germany is offering PN subs, Sweden offers AWACS, ITA/UK radars... to Pakistan too? And so far they don't sell critical techs, or weapons to China.
I dont want to take discussion on this because US started opening to china.. so will EU.... but France did some gimmics to sell to china recently.....
You still don't understand it right? EADS is a company that has 50% German shares and 50% French, infact the German shares are completelly privat, but the France gov holds shares of the French part. That means if EADS decided to help Indias civil aviation, it will be with the French together, but as I said there was never such an offer, especially not related to MMRCA although I would be more than happy to see it.
1) EADS chief as said he can help bridge gap between civil aviation and Military aviation if EF is choosen(which means he is confident to do that).. does we got the same from Rafael.... is this an offer which i am not aware for Dassault(I am sure France will never do this)?
As far i know Airbus is part of EADS(Majorly) and not Dassault.. am i wrong? .. and France do hold there holdings but i guess other 4 countries will also have a major say
Do enlighten me ... where ever i am wrong
... secondly your hold on France part of EADS is correct i am not denying that... lets c what is there in the pot.. if EF does win lets c what France has got its take...
