Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[jha]

No, Its not the BEST..

EF is Best imo next comes RAFALE and SH...

i am just saying that its a good plane to increase no. of squadrons..
anyways we are going to buy >200 planes for MRCA...so it would not kill to have 100 of these to support 100 of EF/RAFALE .. since they are giving us open config. in a reasonably lower price.. plus IAF personals wre reported to be very impressed by this...

anyways this is just my view..feel free to disagree



P.S. since in the article it is claimed that a GRIPEN comes in the price of a 2nd hand F-16..so dont you think 70 mil. fig. is a little inaccurate..

 

[jha]

Saab offers cut price fighter jets to Romania


The offer matches the number of jets offered by the United States, but does not contain ammunition like the US offer.

Romania's Supreme Council announced in March its decision to buy 24 second-hand F-16 jets for 1.3 billion dollars, a purchase which is to be submitted to parliament for approval.

Jerry Lindbergh, a Swedish government official in charge of defence exports, gave details of the offer at a news conference in Bucharest.

He said Sweden could provide 24 new "fully NATO interoperable Gripen C/D fighters, including training, support, logistics and 100 percent offset for the amount of one billion euros (1.3 billion dollars)."

The money could be paid over 15 years with low interest rates.

24 planes for 1.3B...100 should be in ~6B...considering the fact that Gripen-NG will cost more..100 should not cost more than 7BILL.
Plus we will gain so much in terms of knowledge to be applied in LCA MK-2...

 

[sudhir007]

24 planes for 1.3B...100 should be in ~6B...considering the fact that Gripen-NG will cost more..100 should not cost more than 7BILL.
Plus we will gain so much in terms of knowledge to be applied in LCA MK-2...

they are offer Gripen C/D to Romania but they offer us Gpripen NG more advance version which is till date did not get IOC (testing face)but if you see the C/D(w/o AESA, Weapon, ) price it will come at $54-55M. so it mean the advance version come more costly. ????

 

[KS]

Hey guys...jus 1 clarification..

wat model of the Super Hornet is in the fray..?
is it the single seater E mode or two seater F model..?

 

[Dash]

Its the two seater mode what they are offering

 

[jha]

Google Translate

 

[jha]

Eurofighter still a “Big Disappointment “for its Operators

Austria was the first country out of the Consortium of countries and Manufactures (Britain, Germany, Spain and Italy) to order Typhoon as its new air defense aircraft. Initial orders where reduced from 18 to 15 and Aircrafts where ordered in 2003.

First aircraft was delivered in mid-2007 and other started arriving soon after. Even after three years of it operational life in Austrian Air force most of fifteen jets are still grounded. Austrian army chiefs and Social Democratic (SP&#214 Defence Minister Norbert Darabos have been under fire from countries opposition parties regarding these matters.

Eurofighter GmbH the parent company which manufactures this aircrafts has been severely criticized by its own air forces which operate them, UK is already in the process on reducing the numbers of jets it has ordered.

Saudi Arabia which has been sold 72 of these jets, almost 50 of these jets will have limited Ground attack capabilities since they are from Tranche 1 and Tranche 2 batch, Expert believe that this deal was done to close UK Serious Fraud Office investigation into the Al Yamamah (”the dove&#8221 defense deals which commenced in the 1980s.

Singapore went on to buy the F-15 due to uncertainty over Typhoon tranche 2 delivery dates.

Issues which Bae Hawks have still not been sorted out and this has affected whole pilot training program of Indian air force.

Eurofighter still a ?Big Disappointment ?for its Operators idrw.org

---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Eurofighter still a “Big Disappointment “for its Operators

Austria was the first country out of the Consortium of countries and Manufactures (Britain, Germany, Spain and Italy) to order Typhoon as its new air defense aircraft. Initial orders where reduced from 18 to 15 and Aircrafts where ordered in 2003.

First aircraft was delivered in mid-2007 and other started arriving soon after. Even after three years of it operational life in Austrian Air force most of fifteen jets are still grounded. Austrian army chiefs and Social Democratic (SPÖ) Defence Minister Norbert Darabos have been under fire from countries opposition parties regarding these matters.

Eurofighter GmbH the parent company which manufactures this aircrafts has been severely criticized by its own air forces which operate them, UK is already in the process on reducing the numbers of jets it has ordered.

Saudi Arabia which has been sold 72 of these jets, almost 50 of these jets will have limited Ground attack capabilities since they are from Tranche 1 and Tranche 2 batch, Expert believe that this deal was done to close UK Serious Fraud Office investigation into the Al Yamamah (”the dove”) defense deals which commenced in the 1980s.

Singapore went on to buy the F-15 due to uncertainty over Typhoon tranche 2 delivery dates.

Issues which Bae Hawks have still not been sorted out and this has affected whole pilot training program of Indian air force.

Eurofighter still a ?Big Disappointment ?for its Operators idrw.org

 

[Dash]

Singapore went on to buy the F-15 due to uncertainty over Typhoon tranche 2 delivery dates.

Eurofighter is not turning out to be a good platform. Be it BAE systems and its issues or AESA radar, limited A2G capability....

Rafale seems the best I guess and it is only fighter which has improved in all areas in equal pace.....

 

[jha]

^^^ Rafale is said to be under powered, so cant call it the best platform...

only disadvantage with SH is that this is american, otherwise this is reasonably good platform...plus there is a candy of GROWLERs with it...

 

[jha]

Gripen Supercruises


During a test flight today the Gripen Demo aircraft proved its ability to “Supercruise”, the ability to fly supersonic without the use of afterburner which results in fuel savings and an increase in range.



1/21/2009 | During last Autumn, the Gripen Demo performed 40 sorties as part of the development programme that focuses on opening up the flight envelope regarding speed, altitude, angle-of-attack and loads. This year, the testing has continued at the same high tempo. Today’s supercruise flight is part of the ongoing high speed supersonic testing that will include supersonic flights, with different load alternatives.
Saab test pilot Magnus Ljungdahl flew the Gripen Demonstrator aircraft in supercruise.
“The flight was conducted over the Baltic Sea, my altitude was 28, 000 feet and the speed achieved was above Mach 1.2. Without using afterburner I maintained the same speed until I ran out of test area and had to head back to the Saab Test Flight Centre in Linköping.”


“To show potential customers that Gripen can supercruise is an important milestone”, said Gripen International Marketing Director Bob Kemp, “and to perform this activity only nine months after the Gripen Demonstrator was shown in public for the first time, is something that few, if any aircraft can beat.”
The Gripen Demo aircraft is a flying test platform for the next generation of Gripen and for the further development of the present Gripen C/D aircraft. Together with a ground-based test rig, the Gripen Demonstrator will develop and prove the essential systems and capabilities for the future, including its more powerful General Electric F414G engine, an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, advanced communications and electronic warfare systems.

Gripen - The wings of your nation - Gripen Supercruises

 

[Dash]

^^^ Rafale is said to be under powered, so cant call it the best platform...

only disadvantage with SH is that this is american, otherwise this is reasonably good platform...plus there is a candy of GROWLERs with it...

What I basically meant was thats only plane which is equaly capable in all aspects. While some are good in A2A and some good in A2G.
This is one platform which is fair in the above two roles.

Though its a little underpowered, I have read somewhere that post 2010 they will come with 90 Kn thurst.

Though F-18 is a very good plane, but it compromises manueverability and orginally designed for A2G roles.

And as far as growlers are considered, I dont think we will geta hand on it, as US gov has not noded it for sale yet.

I looked at the need for IAF and I thought Rafale is best for its omnirole ability.
Typhoon is good, but yet a controversial plane.

 

[nakodo]

IAF team flies Gripen Demo in Sweden with operational AESA radar
[Gripen Missile options] 21 Apr 2010 8ak: One of the few benefits of the ongoing flight ban over parts of Europe meant that 8ak got extra time when we caught up with Eddy de la Motte, Director India for Gripen (Saab). Mr Motte confirmed that India had sent an IAF team to Sweden 2 weeks ago and flew the Gripen Demo making it the only foreign air force to have flown the advanced version of Saab's Gripen Demonstrator. IAF pilots did about 10 flights in Linkoping. Mr Motte said that in mid-May 2010 the Gripen Demonstrator will be sent to India and confirmed that the Gripen Demo was flown with a fully operational AESA radar developed jointly by Selex and Saab Microwave (Formerly Ericsson Microwave).

There was some controversy last month when the FMV (Swedish Defence Materiel Administration) blocked Saab from sending the Gripen Demo fighter to India on the basis that the only plane was needed by the Swedish Air Force for further testing. The RFP for the MMRCA states that the plane offered in response to the tender should be the one that is used for trials but as per Ajai Shukla, the IAF+MoD will give Saab some leeway in this. While this may cause the competitors to cry foul, it is a good sign that the IAF+MoD are using their discretion, where allowed, to assist them selecting the best fighter and this could work to advantage of others as well. For example, Eurofighter, for one is hoping that the dreaded 'L1' (lowest bidder) clause would not be the deciding factor where multiple fighters qualify in the final round.

To clarify, Saab's Gripen aircraft has 4 versions from A to D, then comes the Gripen Demo which is a demonstrator aircraft (and hence different to Gripen D) for the next generation version planned for India interchangeably called the Gripen NG or IN.

To date, Saab has conducted about 20 flights in India, mostly in Bangalore's Aircraft Systems & Testing Establishment (ASTE) where 2 Gripen-D fighters did low-level, high-speed supersonic tests. In Jaisalmer the 2 aircraft did a weapons release test and one aircraft sent to Leh did landing, engine cold start and take off with full internal fuel plus 2.6 tonnes external load.

Manu Sood, Editor, 8ak mentioned that the American components in the Gripen, mainly the GE F414 engine, is viewed by India as its biggest drawback. Motte said that if that was a genuine concern, then India would not have bought the P-8i and C-130-J aircraft which will play a crucial role in future conflicts and the IAF would not have considered the two U.S. fighters in the MMRCA competition nor the same GE F414 engine for its Tejas LCA which is now in the final stages of a race between that and the Eurojet 200.

Asked what he thinks is Saab’s strongest point, he said "Gripen is the only option that will make India completely independent of the need to purchase combat aircraft from other countries. Gripen IN is equipped with futuristic warfare technologies developed specifically for India and a perfect match to the IAF". He further mentioned that the low operational cost will translate in to more training hours and he believes Saab is the only company to not only offer a complete ToT on the source codes of the AESA radar (though Russia has promised something similar) but also joint development.

Saab did not comment on the issue of revising the bid price. Earlier AviationWeek had reported that since the commercial bids were valid for 2 years ending Apr 28, 2010, this meant that the vendors could now revise their commercial bids. Given the worsening economic situation globally and huge competitive pressure on this large and geo-politically important deal, surprisingly it means that the bids would be revised downwards! However, a person familiar with defence acquisition told 8ak that "sometimes a simple procedure like collecting certificates from vendors saying we are ready to give the same price also fulfils the need".

8ak - Indian Defence News

 

[CONNAN]

CAESAR radar installed on a Eurofighter Typhoon after successful tests

 

[deepakaviator]

Eurofighter is offering the Tranche-3 Typhoon for the Indian requirement, equipped with the Captor-E (CAESAR) AESA radar. EADS has invited India to become a partner of the Eurofighter Typhoon programme if the Typhoon wins the contract, and will be given technological and development participation in future tranches of the Typhoon.[28] Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of EADS Defense Department, elaborated that if India becomes the fifth partner of the Eurofighter programme, it will be able to manufacture assemblies for new Eurofighters.[29]
In January 2010, EADS offered to include thrust vectoring nozzles (TVNs) with the Typhoon's EJ200 engines for India. Thrust vectoring will improve operational capabilities, and reduce fuel burn by up to 5 percent and increase thrust while supersonic cruising by 7 percent.[30]

 

[deepakaviator]

According to Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, all the aircraft tested so far "are going neck and neck". On 23 January 2010, India's ambassador to Italy stated that the Eurofighter Typhoon was in the lead.[74]