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[Dalian Wanda's] ‘The Great Wall’ Topples at North American Box Office

@jhungary,

I worked mainly circus productions, Moscow Circus and a bit with Cirque Du Soleil, some Opera and theatre productions, and some illusionist shows. We've had a number of stunt-men work in Circus shows, there's quite a lot of cross-over.

I love HK cinema, followed it after working in HK and meeting a few people involved the industry back in the 90's. David Chow Yun-Fat is my favorite HK actor, hardboiled my favorite HK film.
 
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Bollywood movies need to get a white actor, so it can sell more as well.
 
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Bollywood movies need to get a white actor, so it can sell more as well.
In China's case, the highest grossing Chinese movie ever has an all-Chinese cast. The Mermaid with a total gross of 555 million dollars plus.
 
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@jhungary,

I worked mainly circus productions, Moscow Circus and a bit with Cirque Du Soleil, some Opera and theatre productions, and some illusionist shows. We've had a number of stunt-men work in Circus shows, there's quite a lot of cross-over.

I love HK cinema, followed it after working in HK and meeting a few people involved the industry back in the 90's. David Chow Yun-Fat is my favorite HK actor, hardboiled my favorite HK film.

I have met Chow Yun Fat once in Yau Ma Tei. When he was shooting a movie in the fruit market where I was working summer job there as a kid. Nice guy, the only thing I still remember is that he is very tall. My brother have him sign a $10 note and we still have that autograph framed somewhere at home in Hong Kong.

Hong Kong movie industry is what open the door to Hollywood for Chinese cinema, It goes from Jackie Chan's Police Story to Chau's Better tomorrow. It open a style of Hong Kong Action drama to the American audience. Where then subsequently promoting movie such as Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Chinese Periodic Action film, which basically is the stereotype of Chinese movie in the US. But that period (80s to 90s) of Hong Kong Cinema bring along a few star status actor and director's to fame in Hollywood, Such as Sammo Hung, Chau Yun Fat, Andy Lau, John Woo, Jackie Chan and so on.

My best Hong Kong movie is called Young and Dangerous, which feature Ekin Cheng, it is about the tale of a street gang who run in the Street of Mong Kok and how the brotherhood and respect being developed, the government once try to ban this movie in Hong Kong after turn over (it was shot at 1996-1998) because it glorify the Triad gang...but it was a good movie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_and_Dangerous_(series)

Think of it like Grand Theft Auto, but just 5 years eariler down the road.

I was surprise that any people outside Hong Kong or Canton would love Hong Kong cinema, because you will bound to be confused when you watch it if you don't speak the lauguage, as Cantonese cant really translate directly to English unlike Mandarin..
 
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I've met Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan and Andy lau through work. My Cantonese is quite clumsy, I can pick up parts of the dialogue in films but have to rely on the subtitles but as you say quite a lot is lost in translation.

I think I saw Young and dangerous in one of the hotels I stayed in, I'll see if I can find a copy. The HK films in that era were very well scripted and acted, a contrast to the more recent mainland films I've watched like the Mermaid. I know the rather whimsical nature of films like the Mermaid appeals to the Chinese family demographic, but I'd like to see more high budget Chinese films made with the kind of gravitas of a Chow Yun-Fat film, I always thought he was like Clint Eastwood.
 
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...an-beats-great-wall-in-u-s-long-weekend-sales

‘Lego Batman’ Beats ‘Great Wall’ in U.S. Long Weekend Sales

1400x-1.jpg

Lego Batman in action.


“The Lego Batman Movie” led the U.S. box office for the second weekend in a row, beating new releases including Matt Damon’s Chinese fantasy “The Great Wall” and rapper Ice Cube’s comedy “Fist Fight” over the long weekend.

The family-friendly animated hit from Warner Bros. collected an estimated $42.7 million in U.S. and Canadian theaters over the four-day period, ComScore Inc. said Tuesday in a statement. Among new releases, “The Great Wall,” from Universal Pictures, landed in third place with sales of $21.5 million, while “Fist Fight,” also from Warner Bros., placed fifth and “Lion” was 10th.

“The Great Wall” didn’t block the ongoing popularity of “Lego Batman.” The picture, made by Comcast Corp.’s Universal and the Legendary Entertainmentdivision of China’s Dalian Wanda Group Co., is a test of U.S. interest in Chinese culture and mythology, as well as production partnerships between movie companies in the two countries. Other studios plan releases with Chinese filmmakers.
 
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I've met Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan and Andy lau through work. My Cantonese is quite clumsy, I can pick up parts of the dialogue in films but have to rely on the subtitles but as you say quite a lot is lost in translation.

I think I saw Young and dangerous in one of the hotels I stayed in, I'll see if I can find a copy. The HK films in that era were very well scripted and acted, a contrast to the more recent mainland films I've watched like the Mermaid. I know the rather whimsical nature of films like the Mermaid appeals to the Chinese family demographic, but I'd like to see more high budget Chinese films made with the kind of gravitas of a Chow Yun-Fat film, I always thought he was like Clint Eastwood.

There are still some good Hong Kong Movie cameout every once in a while, it help when you have friends and people back in Hong Kong who actually saw that first and recommend it to you. But otherwise, you will probably never going to heard of those movie unless you are in Sino-sphere Regions

I don't think they will make big budget movie like they make it in the 80s and 90s, today Hong Kong cinema, apart from some movie are very heavily influenced by mainland China, and Mainland Chinese seldom do what the Hong Konger do in term of movie production, they like periodic drama, and also kung fu syfy (the one when every body is flying)

If I remember correctly, there aren't any original Hong Kong Movie after The Departed in 2003 that garner enough attention or original enough to call Hong Kong cinema. But then I could be wrong. Which is what a shame, because I think the Hong Kong audience are drowned by the sheer volume of Mainland Chinese demand on movie production.

most chinese movies I have watched are all action movies with little or no plot... could not make head or tail of crouching tiger movie not sure why it got so much hype.
the one I watched recently was 'In the mood for love'... its almost soft **** but its not at the same time.. the background music.. the cinematography everything was so good.. its like a piece of art. the actress has longer neck than nicole kidman.. :)
iu

That is the final movie I saw before I move back to the US in the year of 2000.

This is what we called art house movie, and the actor (Tony Leung) are quite specialize in these type of movie, considered it is quite strange because he used to sing and act in periodic action and police drama in Hong Kong before he turn into art house stuff, but people know him more because of his art house stuff than his action movie.

And yes, Maggie Cheung is such as beauty, I think she married a French director and is currently living in France.
 
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https://www.chinamoneynetwork.com/2...an-faces-first-stumble-in-hollywood-foray/amp

China's Richest Man Faces First Stumble In Hollywood Foray


China's richest man, Dalian Wanda Group's chairman Wang Jianlin, with an estimated net-worth of US$31.3 billion, may have suffered his first Hollywood flop, learning the hard way that "there's no business like show business."

The Great Wall, a 2016 action film directed by well-known Chinese director Zhang Yimou and starring Matt Damon, had a disappointing debut weekend in North America, with box office returns falling far short of the company's revenue target.

Co-produced by Legendary Pictures, a Hollywood production studio acquired by Wang's Wanda for US$3.5 billion in January 2016, The Great Wall took in US$18 million at the box office during its premier weekend in the U.S. and Canada, according to statistics from consultancy Comscore.

Films that earn US$15 million to US$20 million in their debut weekend in North America are estimated to eventually bring in total box office earnings of about US$65 million. Wang has said he was hopes to bring in US$400 million to US$500 million from the U.S. market and globally.

The production, which was co-produced with China Film Co., Ltd. and Le Vision Pictures, reportedly costed US$135 million to US$150 million to make. It needs to bring in US$450 million in ticket sales in order to break even, based on a unique convention in China where production companies are allotted one-third of ticketing revenues.

The film has already recorded US$262 million in box office revenue worldwide. Assuming it makes around US$65 million from North American ticket sales, it appears that the movie may not break even.

The Great Wall is the first attempt by Legendary to produce a U.S.-China joint film under Wanda's ownership and influence. A historical fantasy about Western mercenaries joining forces with Chinese troops to slay bloodthirsty saurian beasts, the movie has received negative reviews by film critics both at home and abroad.

Wanda's chairman Wang Jianlin has repeatedly said that his conglomerate wants to export Chinese culture and values via Hollywood style movies. Wanda, a conglomerate with business initially in property development, also has real estate projects in Hollywood, including winning a bid to buy a plot of land in Beverly Hills in Los Angeles in 2014.
 
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https://www.chinamoneynetwork.com/2...an-faces-first-stumble-in-hollywood-foray/amp

China's Richest Man Faces First Stumble In Hollywood Foray


China's richest man, Dalian Wanda Group's chairman Wang Jianlin, with an estimated net-worth of US$31.3 billion, may have suffered his first Hollywood flop, learning the hard way that "there's no business like show business."

The Great Wall, a 2016 action film directed by well-known Chinese director Zhang Yimou and starring Matt Damon, had a disappointing debut weekend in North America, with box office returns falling far short of the company's revenue target.

Co-produced by Legendary Pictures, a Hollywood production studio acquired by Wang's Wanda for US$3.5 billion in January 2016, The Great Wall took in US$18 million at the box office during its premier weekend in the U.S. and Canada, according to statistics from consultancy Comscore.

Films that earn US$15 million to US$20 million in their debut weekend in North America are estimated to eventually bring in total box office earnings of about US$65 million. Wang has said he was hopes to bring in US$400 million to US$500 million from the U.S. market and globally.

The production, which was co-produced with China Film Co., Ltd. and Le Vision Pictures, reportedly costed US$135 million to US$150 million to make. It needs to bring in US$450 million in ticket sales in order to break even, based on a unique convention in China where production companies are allotted one-third of ticketing revenues.

The film has already recorded US$262 million in box office revenue worldwide. Assuming it makes around US$65 million from North American ticket sales, it appears that the movie may not break even.

The Great Wall is the first attempt by Legendary to produce a U.S.-China joint film under Wanda's ownership and influence. A historical fantasy about Western mercenaries joining forces with Chinese troops to slay bloodthirsty saurian beasts, the movie has received negative reviews by film critics both at home and abroad.

Wanda's chairman Wang Jianlin has repeatedly said that his conglomerate wants to export Chinese culture and values via Hollywood style movies. Wanda, a conglomerate with business initially in property development, also has real estate projects in Hollywood, including winning a bid to buy a plot of land in Beverly Hills in Los Angeles in 2014.

This movie is not going to hit 450 mil. I don't think it will go over 300 mil. This is a flop no matter how you see it, even Chinese don't like the idea of the story, this won't end well....

I think Wanda is quite optimistic to think this movie will gross 500 mil. In fact, I don't know why Wanda will greenlit this project to begin with, they should have know this won't draw. The concept is too complicated and the story is to blurry.
 
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"Co-produced by Legendary Pictures, a Hollywood production studio acquired by Wang's Wanda for US$3.5 billion in January 2016...."

This deal isn't what it seems, Wanda essentially brought out Tull with share options in his own company which are now performance valued. They hedged their investment, if Legendary proves profitable Tull earns his money but if Legendary tanks, which now seems likely, Tull's shares become worthless.

Wanda firing Tull won't help. The real value in keeping Tull on-board isn't his ability to finance films, or to produce them. It is in his deal making ability to negotiate with the various parties (such as CAA and it's rival William Morris Endeavor) in Hollywood necessary to make blockbusters work. Wanda will remain an outsider to the Hollywood process.
 
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"Co-produced by Legendary Pictures, a Hollywood production studio acquired by Wang's Wanda for US$3.5 billion in January 2016...."

This deal isn't what it seems, Wanda essentially brought out Tull with share options in his own company which are now performance valued. They hedged their investment, if Legendary proves profitable Tull earns his money but if Legendary tanks, which now seems likely, Tull's shares become worthless.

Wanda firing Tull won't help. The real value in keeping Tull on-board isn't his ability to finance films, or to produce them. It is in his deal making ability to negotiate with the various parties (such as CAA and it's rival William Morris Endeavor) in Hollywood necessary to make blockbusters work. Wanda will remain an outsider to the Hollywood process.

If anything, firing Tull is the biggest mistake of their decision after taking the helm.

Tull is a gambler, he gamble on movie that people don't usually see its worth, he also know how to do business in the industry, getting a big name does not mean it automatically sell, if anything I don't think Matt Damon would be so keen to return to star in any legendary film.

Problem for Dalin Wanda is that Wang pay an excessive price for his stock and ownership for the company, then he turn around and fire Tull as CEO, the only person who know what he has been doing.

However, this is the Chinese formula tho, buy something that's already been extensively entrenched in the business, have a good name and pay over the market price on them, and them mix in with their own ideology, it may work in IBM, it may work in many different place, but it will never work in Movie Business, because in Hollywood, it's never the Producer ring king. but it's always depends on the audience.
 
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And then there may be more than just Matt Damon have this contract. This film needed to do at least $350-$400 millions in box office just to break even.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...os-981602?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Matt Damon's 'The Great Wall' to Lose $75 Million; Future U.S.-China Productions in Doubt

The collapse of The Great Wall at the domestic box office (it has made $34.8 million in North America) has iced any notion of a significant future for U.S.-China co-productions. The movie likely will end up with losses of more than $75 million, sources say, and Universal Pictures will be on the hook for at least $10 million.

The studio funded about 25 percent of the film's $150 million production budget, the rest coming in equal parts from Legendary Entertainment, China Film Group and Le Vision Pictures. But Universal also covered Wall's global marketing expenses, conservatively estimated at $80 million-plus. The film earned $171 million in China (a disappointment) and is expected to top out at about $320 million globally. That's way less than investors had anticipated for the biggest-ever U.S.-China co-production. "The fusion of the No. 1 and No. 2 movie markets in the world will eventually happen, but it is a misfire, domestically speaking," says box-office analyst Jeff Bock. Adds one Hollywood executive who has dealt extensively with China, "There's no question but that it's a failure."

The good news for Universal is that its share of this failure will be relatively modest. The studio gets to collect a roughly 10 percent distribution fee from all theatrical revenue (between 40 percent and 50 percent of the total box office), and box-office rentals likely will recoup much, if not all, of its marketing outlay before other investors dip into whatever money is left to cut into production costs. The four partners will split any further theatrical income equally.

If the movie generates hoped-for ancillary revenue (including $20 million from domestic home entertainment and as much as $40 million from international home entertainment, with $25 million to $30 million from TV — admittedly, a best-case scenario), that will further stanch the red ink.

Still, the crumbling of this Wall has toppled much hope for major Sino-American pictures. Among the lessons insiders have learned are the difficulties of finding stories that meld Eastern and Western characters and the challenges of blending crews, which in Wall's case meant hiring 100 interpreters and solving conflicts that allegedly took place among some below-the-line workers.

"This was the first movie of its type," says one executive connected to the project. "You're trying to appeal to everyone, and you're not compelling enough to appeal to anyone. It feels like Esperanto."

To date, the studios have viewed officially sanctioned China co-productions with skepticism, even though they offer vastly greater financial benefits, enabling backers to pocket 43 percent of ticket-sale revenue out of the country, far more than non-co-productions allow. Past tentpoles, such as Paramount's Transformers: Age of Extinction and Disney's Iron Man 3, were briefly planned as co-prods before their producers realized the depth of Chinese involvement and script control.

The highest-profile co-productions in the works are low- to midbudget period pieces such as Skydance and Alibaba's World War II drama The Flying Tigers, written by Randall Wallace (Braveheart), and producers Mark Gordon and Hawk Koch's road movie Edge of the World, to be co-produced by Pegasus and China Film Group.

Instead, studios have focused on strategic partnerships to boost their returns. Sony struck a financing deal with Dalian Wanda Group, and Paramount recently closed a purported $1 billion pact with Shanghai Film Group and Huahua Media Group.

Developing fully Chinese content with local joint ventures also is seen as a safer bet than co-productions. Warner Bros. is at work on a slate of a dozen Chinese-language films for its Flagship Entertainment banner, a partnership with Beijing-based China Media Capital.

Set in the time of the Song dynasty, Wall tells the story of European mercenaries, led by Matt Damon, who join forces with the Chinese to fight rampaging monsters. It's not the first feature director Zhang Yimou has made with an American star: He teamed with Christian Bale on 2011's The Flowers of War, solely financed by Chinese money. That $94 million movie earned $96 million in China but perished in the U.S. with $311,000.

Regardless of Wall's failure, one analyst predicts Hollywood will be back for more. "The market opportunities are too substantial to ignore," says Eric Handler of MKM Partners. "The problem with The Great Wall in the U.S. was poor reviews. At some point, someone will find the right formula."

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In other news Disney makes $586M from its animated movie "Moana" ( http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=disney1116.htm that's more than "The Mermaid") even though nobody has ever really heard much about it or knows what its about other than its about some big guy voiced by Dwayne Johnson on an island with some girl.
prlkxukogic5bghz3wpb.jpg

What's this movie about again? My kids aren't even interested in it.
 
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...os-981602?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

Matt Damon's 'The Great Wall' to Lose $75 Million; Future U.S.-China Productions in Doubt

The collapse of The Great Wall at the domestic box office (it has made $34.8 million in North America) has iced any notion of a significant future for U.S.-China co-productions. The movie likely will end up with losses of more than $75 million, sources say, and Universal Pictures will be on the hook for at least $10 million.

The studio funded about 25 percent of the film's $150 million production budget, the rest coming in equal parts from Legendary Entertainment, China Film Group and Le Vision Pictures. But Universal also covered Wall's global marketing expenses, conservatively estimated at $80 million-plus. The film earned $171 million in China (a disappointment) and is expected to top out at about $320 million globally. That's way less than investors had anticipated for the biggest-ever U.S.-China co-production. "The fusion of the No. 1 and No. 2 movie markets in the world will eventually happen, but it is a misfire, domestically speaking," says box-office analyst Jeff Bock. Adds one Hollywood executive who has dealt extensively with China, "There's no question but that it's a failure."

The good news for Universal is that its share of this failure will be relatively modest. The studio gets to collect a roughly 10 percent distribution fee from all theatrical revenue (between 40 percent and 50 percent of the total box office), and box-office rentals likely will recoup much, if not all, of its marketing outlay before other investors dip into whatever money is left to cut into production costs. The four partners will split any further theatrical income equally.

If the movie generates hoped-for ancillary revenue (including $20 million from domestic home entertainment and as much as $40 million from international home entertainment, with $25 million to $30 million from TV — admittedly, a best-case scenario), that will further stanch the red ink.

Still, the crumbling of this Wall has toppled much hope for major Sino-American pictures. Among the lessons insiders have learned are the difficulties of finding stories that meld Eastern and Western characters and the challenges of blending crews, which in Wall's case meant hiring 100 interpreters and solving conflicts that allegedly took place among some below-the-line workers.

"This was the first movie of its type," says one executive connected to the project. "You're trying to appeal to everyone, and you're not compelling enough to appeal to anyone. It feels like Esperanto."

To date, the studios have viewed officially sanctioned China co-productions with skepticism, even though they offer vastly greater financial benefits, enabling backers to pocket 43 percent of ticket-sale revenue out of the country, far more than non-co-productions allow. Past tentpoles, such as Paramount's Transformers: Age of Extinction and Disney's Iron Man 3, were briefly planned as co-prods before their producers realized the depth of Chinese involvement and script control.

The highest-profile co-productions in the works are low- to midbudget period pieces such as Skydance and Alibaba's World War II drama The Flying Tigers, written by Randall Wallace (Braveheart), and producers Mark Gordon and Hawk Koch's road movie Edge of the World, to be co-produced by Pegasus and China Film Group.

Instead, studios have focused on strategic partnerships to boost their returns. Sony struck a financing deal with Dalian Wanda Group, and Paramount recently closed a purported $1 billion pact with Shanghai Film Group and Huahua Media Group.

Developing fully Chinese content with local joint ventures also is seen as a safer bet than co-productions. Warner Bros. is at work on a slate of a dozen Chinese-language films for its Flagship Entertainment banner, a partnership with Beijing-based China Media Capital.

Set in the time of the Song dynasty, Wall tells the story of European mercenaries, led by Matt Damon, who join forces with the Chinese to fight rampaging monsters. It's not the first feature director Zhang Yimou has made with an American star: He teamed with Christian Bale on 2011's The Flowers of War, solely financed by Chinese money. That $94 million movie earned $96 million in China but perished in the U.S. with $311,000.

Regardless of Wall's failure, one analyst predicts Hollywood will be back for more. "The market opportunities are too substantial to ignore," says Eric Handler of MKM Partners. "The problem with The Great Wall in the U.S. was poor reviews. At some point, someone will find the right formula."

---------------------------------------
In other news Disney makes $586M from its animated movie "Moana" ( http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=disney1116.htm that's more than "The Mermaid") even though nobody has ever really heard much about it or knows what its about other than its about some big guy voiced by Dwayne Johnson on an island with some girl.
prlkxukogic5bghz3wpb.jpg

What's this movie about again? My kids aren't even interested in it.

people kinda see it coming a long way around.you can't really try to break into Hollywood with a sole Chinese theme, even if you attach a big name for it, it still not going to happen

It also point to one thing, that is, if you cannot break it in hollywood, you cannot break into the world.
 
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It would have been better to make a historical war movie.
 
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