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Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China

We should support China not China's separatist groups.
THE WORST THING PAKISTAN CAN DO IS SUPPORT UIGHURS. That will hurt Pakistan's relations with China and we can not afford to lose China as an ally.
We can not support the Chinese government's treatment of Uighurs, not simply because they are Muslims, but because they are humans. And oh my goodness, did you just compare Chinese treatment of Uighurs to Balochi treatment in Pakistan? Balochis have an entire province, they have political representation, they have rights, they have freedom of religion. The Uighurs have none of these things. If anyone supports Balochi separatist movements, it would be purely for anti-Pakistan reasons. This is not the case with China. I am not anti-China, but I an anti-Chinese-treatment-of-Uighurs.

I believe it is the same for Pakistan. I don't recollect them crying about the Rohignya people even though their a muslim ethnic minority suffering. All the crocodile tears about muslim "brotherhood" is generally b(i)ased only in favour of their community or land disputes with neighbouring nations.
It's due to the lack of knowledge of the Rohignya issues. I ask myself, what possible reason would Pakistan have to purposely stay silent against Burma/Mayanmar? Ocham's razor, the simplest answer is usually the right one, and that is that the average Pakistani does not know much about their issues. As for the awareness amongst the Turks regarding the Kashmir issue, there is not a nation in the world, in particular the Western world, which is not awar of the conflict. For crying out loud, it is the reason for constant tension between two nuclear states. You are comparing the Kashmir issue with something that is not even in the same cetegory. DarkStar's argument stands.

In fact, I'll admit, I wasn't aware of the plight of the Uighurs until recently. Now that I know, I am concerned about them despite the fact that China is an ally. Is that bias? See, what you have just done here is generalize an entire people, namely us Pakistanis, based on presumptions and some preconceived notions. That, friend, is a pretty damn biased outlook in itself.
 
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This thread and the responses by the Pakistanis has proved that when push comes to shove, they, or any muslim dominated country (a few exceptions apart) wouldn't lift a finger to so much as even criticize such atrocities, against fellow muslims. This is one reason why the Islamic voice hardly has credibility on the world stage.


Hmm maybe only Iran but they wouldn't speak in this case after hearing the Uighur leader is living in exile in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA :usflag:
 
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The larger issue that comes to mind is the Ummah ?

Why is it applied selectively ? It should be all or nothing. If Muslims in any other part of the world were denied friday prayers there would have been an outcry world wide of denial of religious rights....silence here.

Compare this with the Burka issue in france do we see double standards ?
 
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The larger issue that comes to mind is the Ummah ?

Why is it applied selectively ? It should be all or nothing. If Muslims in any other part of the world were denied friday prayers there would have been an outcry world wide of denial of religious rights....silence here.

Compare this with the Burka issue in france do we see double standards ?

Yes however the reason is not double standards rather politics. The concept of Ummah is long lost, policies are driven by politics. Welcome to the real world.
 
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Yes however the reason is not double standards rather politics. The concept of Ummah is long lost, policies are driven by politics. Welcome to the real world.

I live in the real world.

Was merely drawing attention to the hypocrisy that exists on religious issues - more so among the Islamic community where a misplaced sense of ' brotherhood "is propogated & selectively exercised by the leadership .

In life and international relations , it has always been ' each man for himself" with no " women & children first" either.
 
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How hilarious!

Dare you say Xinjiang is not a home to Han and other 45 ethnics other than Uighur?

If you learn the history, Han had entered and settled down in Xinjiang with other ethnics centuries before Uighur was formed as an ethnic, and Han stays there with other ethnic groups, albeit smaller in number compared with Uighur.

Whose home is Xinjiang to? It’s the home to all Chinese ethnics living there for centuries!

It’s about social equality that people have to address here, not “whose home” type of foolish and sinister stuff. :tdown:

Dear i didnt say that xinjang is home for x or y, but i was trying to high light the discrimination between x and y.There should be an inclusive development.
I see a racist tone in your above post which are pro han chinese, but what i am trying to say is please take the aspirations of ugiyors too they too are chinese right..??
 
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Show your prejudice!

Truth is ethnic independent. If you think otherwise, only appropriate description is “ myopic” and “racist”.

Let’s go for rational discussion, if you are sincere.

BTW, I assure you many Americans are ignorant, because they don't have to care. Hopefully we don't fall into that category.



You are free to hold your opinions.

The fact (not opinion) is, the Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang, where multiple ethnics thrived there except Turkic people, as early as West Han Dynasty around 60 BC, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border.

The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines.

The resurrection of Tang Dynasty witnessed re-control of Xinjiang, with two military commanderies in Anxi (640) and Beiting (702) in the north and south of the Tian Shan. The decrease of Tang dynasty helped Arabic influence in these areas. Nonetheless, Mongolian still remained as the language at that time.

Yuan had also incorporated the region into China, but Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) asserted its firm control over it.

Remind you that, China is a multi-ethnic country with Han the majority.

There are Russians and Kazaks, etc. They look different and speak differently from Han, and share no heritage of the Chinese. Should each and every of those ethnics declare independence form China?

National self-determination is a controversial issue. While people are entitled with the rights to shake off the shackles of colonists and imperialism, it is also believed that &#8216;Yet if every ethnic, religious or linguistic group claimed statehood, there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve.&#8217; (UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali stated in his otherwise upbeat 1992 report <An Agenda for Peace>).



Peevishness doesn&#8217;t make a claim any more appealing.

You don&#8217;t have to heed US government, and I certainly don't. I only represent myself, as an individual, not US government.

I oppose Taiwan independence. I oppose Tibet independence. Because for those particular cases, &#8220;there would be no limit to fragmentation, and peace, security and well-being for all would become ever more difficult to achieve&#8221;.



As history and facts demonstrates, Uyghurs are not the first people living in that land. Other ethnics and Han Chinese controlled the land 60 BC and earlier, whereas Turkic speakers started to have influence only when Tang declined.

By your logic, Turkic speakers should also evacuate the land and yield to Han or to those pre Han ethnics. How ridiculous!

Human rights issue has to be addressed in China in general, and in Xinjiang, Tibet and anywhere else in particular. Secession is not a solution. Instead, a worsened human rights record can be foreseen.







Now I want to get to the meat of your argument as this is the most appetizing part of the debate.


"The fact (not opinion) is, the Han Chinese had control over Xinjiang, where multiple ethnics thrived there except Turkic people, as early as West Han Dynasty around 60 BC, with its headquarters at Wulei (now in North Tarim Basin). Later, an extension of Great Wall, a typical symbol of ancient Chinese sphere of control, was built 300 miles into present Gansu-Xinjiang border.

The Uighurs seemed to appear (only) around 3 DC as Han Dynasty declines. -gpit



Let me begin.

You claim the Han Chinese had control over "Xinjiang" but specifically the West Han Dynasty around 60 BC.

Well my research shows how exaggerated your claims are. I also found out much of the information you posted is from Chinese Government sources on Chinese history.

The truth is one the history at least exploration and written history of "Xinjiang" or East Turkistan dates back even further and before the arrival of the West Han Dynasty which is around 60 BC. There was one group of Turkic-Mongoloid Nomads that settled in the region now known as East Turkistan/Xinjiang. That is the Xiongnu, a predominant group of Nomadic Turks with also Mongoloid tribes. They entered "Xinjiang" around the 3rd-2nd BC this predates the arrival of Chinese settlers by over 200 years.

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Xiongnu

nomadic pastoral people who at the end of the 3rd century bc formed a great tribal league that was able to dominate much of Central Asia for more than 500 years. China&#8217;s wars against the Xiongnu, who were a constant threat to the country&#8217;s northern frontier throughout this period, led to the Chinese exploration and conquest of much of Central Asia."

Source: Xiongnu (people) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia










Now what we must look at who were the Xiongnu genetically, what ethnic people were they?


"Though there is still much debate as to who exactly the Xiongnu were, or whether they were identical to the Huns, the prevailing theory is that the Huns were the Xiongnu, and archeological and linguistic evidence suggests a Turkic origin for them."


Source: http://www.colorq.org/Meltingpot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=ChineseTurks

Read below about some recent discoveries on Central Asian and Xiongnu history and origins in regards to early Turkic peoples.


"The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia.


Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period. "

Source: Ancient DNA Tells Tales from the Grave



We are not simply talking about the arrival of the Uyghurs we are talking about the Turks whom the Uyghurs stem from, the early Turkic empires are the origins of the Uyghurs. The first Turkic empire "The Great Hun Empire The Great Hun Empire ( 204 BC - 216 AD)" actually first ruled the region now known as E. Turkistan/Xinjiang in the 3rd-2nd centuries BC, again this predates the arrival of the West Han Dynasty by 200 years at least.

The following states and empires were founded by the Turks;

* The Great Hun Empire ( 204 BC - 216 AD )
* The Western Hun Empire ( 48 - 216 )
* The European Hun Empire ( 375 - 454 )
* The Akhun Empire ( 420 - 562 )
* The Gok Turk Empire ( 552 - 743 )
* The Avar Empire ( 565 - 803 )
* The Khazar Empire ( 651 - 983 )
* The Uigur State ( 744 - 1335 )
* The Karahan State ( 940 - 1040 )
* The Ghaznavid State ( 963 - 1183 )
* The Great Seljuk Empire ( 1040- 1157 )
* The Harzemshah State ( 1157 - 1231 )
* The Alt&#305;nordu State ( 1236 - 1502 )
* The Tamberlane Empire ( 1368 - 1501 )
* The Babur Empire ( 1526 - 1858 )
* The Ottoman Empire ( 1299 - 1922 )

Source: Turkey travel Guide, all the info about Turkey


"The feared mounted warriors of the Hun Empire of Europe now are believed to have descended from the Xiongnu of Inner Mongolia. It was primarily the Xiongnu."

Source: Nomadic Art


Here is a map of the "Great Hum Empire" which was the first Turkic Empire when it existed in the 3rd BC - 2nd C.E/AD (that is around 400 years of existence), notice on the right side of the picture you see the Chinese Han dynasty in red.

e5daabaeacb087cd0766a9bf596438cd._.gif



Here is an earlier map of territory first settled and rules by the Turkic "The Great Hun Empire", the first Turkic Empire.


As everyone can see the first Turkic empire "Great Hun" or "Hun" Empire covered Mongolia, Northern China, and most importantly EAST TURKISTAN! The first and second picture clearly show the Turkic Hun Empire predated any Chinese settlement or entrance in Xinjiang by at least 200 years.

Source: http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/husa/origins/hunhist/hunart.html




Also the Chinese by your own admission entered these Turkic lands around 60 BC under the West Han Dynasty and established the "Protectorate of the Western Regions" to try and manage the newly entered land of East Turkistan, which was already settled by Turkic Hun peoples.


Let's not forget that historically Turks have lived in East Turkistan longer than any other Mongoloid or Chinese Han people. The Gokturk empire The Khazar empire the Uyghur state and other Turkic empires all lived in the region much much longer than any Chinese people.



I put a lot of time in this post to do intense research.
 
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Urumqi looks to the future with prayer
By Hu Yinan, Mu Qian and Lei Xiaoxun (China Daily)
Updated: 2009-07-11 08:48

URUMQI: Contrary to earlier reports, mandatory Friday prayers were held in some mosques in Urumqi, which is still struggling to recover from the July 5 riots.

Mosques run by Uygur and Hui communities in the city's Liudaowan area were opened for the afternoon prayer, a bold move by imams that scotched rumors that the government had asked all the mosques to shut their doors to avoid more violence.

A municipal official of the capital of the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region said the authorities did not ask any mosque to close. Some imams did close a few mosques, but they did so voluntarily out of security concerns.


Memetimin Hudaberdi, deputy chief of the Islamic association of Shuimogou district, which runs the Uygur mosque in Liudaowan, told China Daily that more than 1,000 people, almost as many as on other Fridays, prayed in the mosque.

"The imams believed things would be under control, that's why they decided to keep the mosques open," he said.

The Friday congregational prayer, jumu'ah in Arabic, was a critical test for the authorities in their relentless efforts to restore order in the city.


Tens of thousands of armed police have been deployed to restore normalcy in the city. On Friday, they continued patrolling Urumqi's densely populated areas and using loudspeakers to urge people to maintain ethnic unity.

Combined with a heavy security presence, the efforts have restored peace and order to a large extent. But some people still fear that it could take a long time before the city emerges out of the shadow of the gruesome riots.

A notice in Uygur saying jumu'ah had been cancelled and advising the faithful to pray at home was posted outside the Yanghang mosque in Tianshan district, one of the worst affected areas in Sunday's riots.

But the Uygurs who began gathering there around 1 pm, more than an hour before jumu'ah, said prayers in the mosque cannot be cancelled. Some claimed to have walked across the city to attend the prayer.

"It's incumbent upon all Muslims to attend jumu'ah in a mosque," said Abdullah, a construction worker from China's westernmost city of Kashgar.

With tears welling up in his eyes, the 23-year-old, surrounded by dozens of anxious Uygurs and supported by up to 100 others outside, said no one wanted violence. Many among the crowd burst into tears when Abdullah said his 18-year old brother, who is still in high school, had been missing since July 5.

The mosque gate was opened around 2 pm, and more than 1,000 people joined the prayer half and hour later.

"This (jumu'ah) is the call of the people and the mission (of the mosque). Not letting people in could only have produced negative results," said Yasim Xukur, a civil servant, just after the prayer.

The 28-year-old said the Uygurs involved in July 5 riots "are not true Muslims".
 
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Uighurs protest against closure of mosques


BEIJING: China’s decision to close mosques in trouble hit Urumqi during the Friday prayers resulted in demonstrations at some places of worship.
Riot police managed to quell the demonstrations and whisked away dozens of them with hands above their heads.
Though the decision to close mosques was apparently taken to avoid possible clashes with the Han Chinese population, it was seen by many Uighurs Muslims as interference in their religious rights. This was the first signs of unrest since groups of women demonstrated last Tuesday demanding that those arrested after Sunday’s riots, which killed 156 people, be released.

The White Mosque in Urumqi, the regional capital of Xinjiang, was the main focus of demonstrators who dared large groups of riot police with submachine guns, armored vehicles and even a helicopter hovered overhead. The other Muslim community of Hui defied official orders to open the doors of the mosques after groups of worshippers began shouting.

Beijing has been desperately trying to avoid the Urumqi riot becoming an international issue, which would give the rebel Uighurs a shot in the arm and give their movement some of the respectability of the agitation by rebel Tibetans. But its hopes on the count were dashed with a United States official making a statement on the riots on Friday.

James Jones, the U.S. National Security Adviser, said on the sidelines of the G-8 summit in Italy that China should act with "appropriate restraint" in dealing with the Xinjiang rebels.
China has stoutly opposed a statement from Turkish government leaders, who want the issue of Urumqi riots and rights of the Tukic-speaking to be discussed in the United Nations Security Council. Beijing has described it as interference in its domestic policy and warned that such moves will affect the relationship between the two countries.

“Turkey's support for the Uygur separatists and terrorists can only cause public indignation in China. If it does not want to ruin the relationship between two peoples, please stop standing behind those mobs and separatists, stop being an axis of evil!” the state-run Global Times said in a strongly worded editorial on Friday.
Uighurs protest against closure of mosques - China - World - The Times of India
 
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Turkey attacks China 'genocide'



Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".

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There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.

The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.

Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country, shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region.

"The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.

"There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."

The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".

Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.

Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.

But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.

Uighurs defiant

Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.

The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.

Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship.

But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.

"We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.

After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.

Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.

Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.

"It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.

The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.

Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.

Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'


this have to be discussed in united nations - chinese atrocities are increasing day by day - they cant hide the pain and suffering of these people. it have to come in front of rest of world . where are those religious group who fight in name of islam ?? a shameful act of bullying by china indeed.
need to teach some lesson to china indeed.:tsk::guns:
 
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Why do these indians keep posting the same thing about muslims being banned from going to masjid when it is untue........for heavens sake it was live on al jazeera muslims going to masjid on friday in Urumqi.

[DONT INSULT] indians dont seem to get it........most of the people who where killed where non muslims.........silly indians will more then likelly post the same post about china closing masjid again.....dumb and dummer indians on this forum.
 
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Why do these indians keep posting the same thing about muslims being banned from going to masjid when it is untue........for heavens sake it was live on al jazeera muslims going to masjid on friday in Urumqi.

You dumb indians dont seem to get it........most of the people who where killed where non muslims.........dumb indians will more then likelly post the same post about china closing masjid agains.....dumb and dummer indians on this forum.

[DONT INSULT] - You must be retard to abuse indians as whole. before reading the artical- just read there its not indian - its british media BBC.
BUT HTEN AGAIN YOU just wont get it ...... so keep yeppin your yiddli-I-po. :crazy:

aimaraul will come with some of his trolling -post mentioning India: or you indians but the sensibilty preveil ignore his meaning less post.
 
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chinese are in pain......you indian happy now?Turkey's prime minister blame china for 140 Han's death,chinese govt ask everyone to calm ,this "genocide" makes sense
 
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